Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Greenwood for frenkie swap would be nice

Margot Robbie popping round to my house and asking if I fancied a pint would be nice too…

 

[Ali Dia]

I have a feeling that Amad has been told he can leave and that leaves the door open for greenwood a little bit more. If we are offered proper money and the player wants to go we will sell. If they offer a bad deal we will keep the player, as we should. It’s shocking that we have 3 left footed right wingers on the books, all highly rated and none of them did the business for us.

 

[moses]

I have absolutely no idea what you are on about so I'm just going to ignore your constant derailment and go back to discussing the topic at hand - feel free to chime in

I don't need your permission Rood.

And I don't believe for one second you don't know what I'm talking about, I'm not the only one who has, said as much in this thread.

Only yesterday another mod commented that it was about time you showed your hand, and multiple posters have also said it.

Your incessant proactivity but claims of neutrality has been noticed by many.

If you haven't noticed it being said but somehow manage to swoop in and correct any challenge to your favoured narrative I'd be very surprised.

 

[Doracle]

Surely an interview would help

I think we have to assume the tape is him, because that would have otherwise been clarified by now.

As such, the best he could probably do with such an interview is explain that the rest of the recording shows nothing further happened, that he’s horrified with how he behaved hearing it back, knows his behaviour was wrong etc.

Even if that expression of contrition was taken at face value, there are also the pictures. I can only assume that his position on those has to be that they weren’t caused by him. I think the club must have seen some evidence beyond just his word to be comfortable making the statement that they did (that they are satisfied he did not assault her) but I have no idea what that evidence could be. However credible it is, I also can’t see how it could be something that doesn’t contradict the evidence the police initially received from his partner - meaning that it couldn’t be something he could refer to in an interview without incriminating her.

The absolute best case for him would seem to me to be that he behaved like a total and utter scumbag to his partner but (just about) fell short of attempted rape and that he was such a bad partner she then made up allegations that he also hit her, in some sort of Depp/Heard type of mutually awful relationship. The worst case is that he’s exactly the scumbag most of the world currently thinks he is.

The only thing that moves me slightly away from near certainty that it’s the latter is that I just can’t believe that the club would make the statement that they did if there was no evidence, other than his word, to counter the allegations. The utter shitstorm that would descend on the club if, god forbid, any further instagram posts are posted in the future would do immeasurable damage. For a club of United’s status, I don’t think even the prospect of getting millions for Greenwood would be considered worth that risk.

Given all the above, he’s not giving an interview.

 

[Raoul]

I have a feeling that Amad has been told he can leave and that leaves the door open for greenwood a little bit more. If we are offered proper money and the player wants to go we will sell. If they offer a bad deal we will keep the player, as we should. It’s shocking that we have 3 left footed right wingers on the books, all highly rated and none of them did the business for us.

We have options. Greenwood, Sancho, Amad, Pellistri are all potential transfers, which means there's no pressure to get rid of one in particular, nor is there any pressure to sell for less than they're actually worth. We could also potentially keep all of them if we sell Antony and/or Rashford.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

Forgiveness and redemption are alien concepts to a small but very loud section of United fans.

Forgiveness for what exactly?

Lots of self-righteous posturing. We must forgive one another and let go of rage and anger.

I ain't self righteously posturing, I'm just a child sexual abuse survivor.

Spot on. The Sam Kerr thread is an eye-opener. Never seen so many people trying to make excuses for racism because it’s Sam Kerr.

Using someone's race as part of an insult is racist. There is no spectrum.

yes, I would and I actually did. As I said, forgiveness is an alien concept for some.

You forgave someone for rape? And you want to forgive Greenwood for rape, is that rough?

To sit there believing you know the whole story is genuinely foolish thinking. There’s more to those tapes than has been released. The recording was bad but if the CPS thought they had the evidence they’d of prosecuted him without the girl as a witness. A sad situation but his girl has since forgiven him and we have to practice forgiveness at some point whether it's at Man utd or elsewhere.

What part of the missing audio do you need. Literally the only possible excuse is a fetish, nothing else can excuse him threatening to rape someone, even if they did have consensual sex after, the threat to rape still happened

Sensibly, there needs to be a performance thread but it was considered that we can’t just talk about how he is playing. Everything has to be put into context. So, instead, we all have to wade through this thread to try and keep track.

Google is your friend

So sorry to hear that and I fully understand why you feel that way. I forgave someone who hurt my family member because they were genuinely sorry but I know it might be hard when they aren't. Forgiveness helped me and my family with the healing.

They were genuinely sorry that they threatened to rape your family member???

I agree decisions are made based on data at hand but the data at hand (social media posts) that were released were not a reflection of the incident. Seeing people at United have heard the full recording and pictures and concluded nothing happened, then I tend to believe them.

How were they not a reflection of the incident? We literally heard him threaten to rape her.

Manchester United player. The club could (and would) have terminated his contract if they had concluded he had committed the offences that he was charged with. There would then have, obviously, been no need for a thread to keep track on him.

It’s perfectly reasonable for United fans to want to keep track on a player who we are presumably going to be looking to sell in the summer. The mods clearly think that having this one thread is preferable, just doesn’t seem the best way to deal with it to me but, of course, it’s their decision.

This is a privately owned forum, this is the Mason Greenwood thread on it. If you want stats and highlights, Google is your friend

Presumably you agree that they concluded that there was no attempted rape; no coercive behaviour and no assault though?

Have you actually heardthe audio? They are a business, a business at the time solely owned by the Glazers who have done nothing other than suck our club dry.

They concluded the material posted online did not provide a full picture and that Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged. I tend to believe them. There is always more to the story than what’s in the media.

So explain the audio in a way where he DIDN'T threaten to rape her

Yes, and they not only didn't terminate this contract - they reportedly attempted to bring him back, going through extraordinary preparations to do so before the leak..

The guy that some people are saying is a 100m pound player? I wonder why they might do that?!?!

The scenario you mentioned is logically not impossible but I find it hard to believe an institution like United would lie on this serious issue in order to protect the value of a very expensive asset in MG as you put it.

Every company lies. Even the mom and pop stores

Just like you don't like posts that argue your point. Its an infinite loop, fuelled by your assumption of moral superiority and the same assumption in other peoples opinions.

Is not liking threats to rape moral superiority?

The guy was arguably 20-21 years old when this happened with arguably a big headed ego coming from a thick wallet.

Just as young people can turn dirty, they can also grow up and change to become better people whilst growing both mentally and physically.

I personally dislike the "this is my United & I dont want this type of player at my club" partly because:

a) It's not anyone's club, its equally arguably Greenwood's club than it is any fans club whether its anyone or me. He has been there since the age of 6.

b)It screams of the "fans are bigger than the players" thing that United fans do to most players as seen by theiir "support" for players like Bruno, Rashford on the pitch - never mind Greenwoods off the pitch behaviour.

c) He has no legal charges anymore. Check. He is getting along with both his partner and his/her family. Check. Why the whole one strike & your out thing? I'd love to see some of these guys histories if they have ever gotten in to a fight punched someone (ive had broken noses) or even did something illegal like taking drugs or drink driving where they got about it when they could have easily taken out someones life. I really doubt that all these people that don't want Greenwood back are angels with a god's judgemental 100% bypass.

d) Sure his future is biased depending on my appreciation for his footballing talent, but thats not something i really need to hide either. If he wasnt a good player then he is not useful to go through any hassle.

e) Not wanting Greenwood back does not make anyone a better person or a better human being. The world doesn't revolve around a simgle person's ideology.

f) Arguably a player that should cover alot of space in the squad aswell, in an era where out youth system is looking more valuable than our transfers.

g) Let him know that he cant make these same mistake again & arguably no other mistake anymore - put him in the light like a deer in front of a car light that makes him make have to deeal with his past actions and karma. Use him and his struggles as a way of showing that other young players should not make these mistakes - whilst players like Antony & Ronaldo just brushed it under their duvets.

A. I've supported the club since before Greenwood was born, and I haven't been given a single minute of training. In fact, some of my hard earned cash has been spent on training him.
B. The fans are bigger than the players because the fans pay the players wages. If there was no money in football, from the fans, most of these guys would be rugby or basketball players
C. I've done many things that I should have been convicted of, loads. Never threatened to rape someone though
D. His football ability is only part of his worth. Him being a cnut, allegedly, detracts from his value.
E. I don't need validation. I heard what he said, I think he's a cnut, I am no better or worse for for it
F. Couldn't care less, even if he could every position including goalkeeper, I still think he's a cnut
G. It wasn't a mistake, threatening to rape someone is not a mistake

Good points made. Given that a sizable majority of global United fans/followers exist in Asia and Africa, it shouldn't be surprising to see wildly varying views on his issue.

For instance, Japan, only 9 months ago changed their rape laws to include consent (previously they required some form of physical force to be considered rape). They also only just raised their age of consent from 13 to 16. Moreover, marital rape is still legal in nations that comprise at least 50% of world population, including China, India, Nigeria, Bangladesh, and pretty much the entire Middle East, so views from United fans in those regions are likely to vary when it comes to the Greenwood case and beyond.

Cool, but he did it in the UK.

I agree nothing matters to Glazers, except their money, but I really doubt they’d go to this extent on this serious subject to protect MG’s value.

Why do you doubt that? Do you know many multimillionaires who have Saint like morality? Because all the ones I know have very flexible moralities

If the girl forgave him and decided not to press charges, how are we who objectively knows less and has less information, not? Why are you certain he hasn’t sorted himself out? We are still talking about a young adult. More so you are entitled to your opinion as I am.

The girl has many reasons to stay with him after he threatened to rape her, doesn't mean if have to support him, I mean, I don't even have a baby with the guy

 

[Red00012]

I have a feeling that Amad has been told he can leave and that leaves the door open for greenwood a little bit more. If we are offered proper money and the player wants to go we will sell. If they offer a bad deal we will keep the player, as we should. It’s shocking that we have 3 left footed right wingers on the books, all highly rated and none of them did the business for us.

We have a ton of wingers we can and will be getting rid of
Greenwood
Sancho
Antony
Pellestri
Diallo
Forson
Rashford

 

[Lash]

Well that's up to INEOS to check and decide, the club say they had access to witness statements, phone records etc plus did further enquiries beyond the police investigation. Sounds like a lot more evidence that can be assessed than some seem to suggest.

And i don't think they u-turned easily, seems clear that even Ten Hag was told that Greenwood was coming back.
They just clearly weren't prepared for the leak and subsequent backlash.

Obviously we have no idea what exactly was going on behind the scenes - what different options they looked at, why there was such a delay, when did they actually finish the investigation etc.

But we know Arnold has not survived and i think the handling of this situation will be a major reason for that.
So whatever happens from here it will be someone else making these decisions and surely they will learn a lot from the mistakes last summer.

I'm not suggesting they don't have evidence, I'm just unsure why they would come to a different opinion?

Well they did. They told ten hag, had a whole plan on him being reintegrated and the leak was really only that they had planned reintegration and he was coming back. That was enough to U-turn on all that effort. What exactly was in the leak in your opinion?

 

[Lash]

If the findings were particularly convincing, it seems (extremely) unlikely that United opted to ship him out on loan (rather than simply reintegrate him).

Everything indicates that United were ready to take him back, but that they thought the better of it...because? Yes why?

Let's go with the "they heard the full audio, it ain't what it seems" angle: United know that the whole thing was...pretty much nothing. But...they can't welcome Greenwood back because...doing so would...yes? Finish that sentence and make that scenario sound somewhat believable.

Speculation, but I think they were happy to take him back and take the explanations given to them, provided they didn't have to justify their decision. As soon as it got leaked and were asked to explain their decision, they panicked, u-turned and pretended like they hadn't decided (which of course is nonsense).

They were hoping they could get away with saying next to nothing and hiding behind the couple now wanting privacy.

 

[Rood]

I'm not suggesting they don't have evidence, I'm just unsure why they would come to a different opinion?

Well they did. They told ten hag, had a whole plan on him being reintegrated and the leak was really only that they had planned reintegration and he was coming back. That was enough to U-turn on all that effort. What exactly was in the leak in your opinion?

Well yes the leak was just the info that the club had already started the process of reintegration without communicating anything in public (clearly a major error).

I don't necessarily expect a different opinion but INEOS will need to start by satisfying themselves that the club did go through a proper investigation and look at the facts behind the orignal verdict that Greenwood didn't commit those crimes.

Even though Arnold is gone, there were 5 people on the internal investigation committee and 4 of them (Patrick Stewart, John Murtough, Collette Roche, Ellie Norman) are still there so they will have to explain everything.

Only then can there be any discussion about whether he can come back or not.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

I must be the poster on here who has been put on ignore by most amount of people because of one single thread.

 

[sepulturite]

I must be the poster on here who has been put on ignore by most amount of people because of one single thread.

No harm in that considering the opinions of some on here on this subject.

 

[Needham]

Listen to the tape and ask yourselves if you want the stench of this assaulting creton around the place. He'll bring terrible juju and the shenanigans around him being able to slide back into reputability sickens me. feck him off forever and who cares if he wins the bloon door.

 

[Lash]

Well yes the leak was just the info that the club had already started the process of reintegration without communicating anything in public (clearly a major error).

I don't necessarily expect a different opinion but INEOS will need to start by satisfying themselves that the club did go through a proper investigation and look at the facts behind the orignal verdict that Greenwood didn't commit those crimes.

Even though Arnold is gone, there were 5 people on the internal investigation committee and 4 of them (Patrick Stewart, John Murtough, Collette Roche, Ellie Norman) are still there so they will have to explain everything.

Only then can there be any discussion about whether he can come back or not.

But the original verdict still ended in him leaving the club on loan because it was untenable to reintegrate him, even if the verdict was he didn't commit those crimes. That is a fact in itself.

But will those 4 people be like, "we actually wanted him back and the investigation showed he was innocent, we just had to send him away". Don't think it's a good look to your new boss.

I personally think if he couldn't be reintegrated before, nothing new has come to light since and no one has publicly explained anything since either - how can there be any real discussion? It will be very much like this thread and no group will ever unanimously agree to his return.

 

[flameinthesun]

Barcelona would be a good move for him, would be interesting where they would play him with Yamal coming through.

 

[adexkola]

But the original verdict still ended in him leaving the club on loan because it was untenable to reintegrate him, even if the verdict was he didn't commit those crimes. That is a fact in itself.

But will those 4 people be like, "we actually wanted him back and the investigation showed he was innocent, we just had to send him away". Don't think it's a good look to your new boss.

I personally think if he couldn't be reintegrated before, nothing new has come to light since and no one has publicly explained anything since either - how can there be any real discussion? It will be very much like this thread and no group will ever unanimously agree to his return.

No group will ever unanimously agree to his return. But the vast majority of supporters will swallow whatever decision the club makes either way and move on. You'll get a few who continue to hoohah about it.

 

[MancunianAngels]

Here's a scenario for you all.

Say the player in question belonged to Arsenal or Chelsea when this incident happened and had a similar two and a half years like he had at OT before not playing for ages and then having an ok (occasionally good but rarely great) period at Getafe, would you want to sign him for 40 million plus?

Would you want to spend money on another troubled winger or would you want to look elsewhere?

Imo, there's not a chance anywhere on here would want to go anywhere near him if he was from anywhere else. His main saving grace from a fan perspective is that he's an academy player. Take that away and what else is there?

 

[golden_blunder]

Here's a scenario for you all.

Say the player in question belonged to Arsenal or Chelsea when this incident happened and had a similar two and a half years like he had at OT before not playing for ages and then having an ok (occasionally good but rarely great) period at Getafe, would you want to sign him for 40 million plus?

Would you want to spend money on another troubled winger or would you want to look elsewhere?

Imo, there's not a chance anywhere on here would want to go anywhere near him if he was from anywhere else. His main saving grace from a fan perspective is that he's an academy player. Take that away and what else is there?

No thanks

 

[Litch]

He'll stay in Spain and the fee will be used to sign his replacement. We'll put a buy back clause in the deal.....

 

[Solius]

He'll stay in Spain and the fee will be used to sign his replacement. We'll put a buy back clause in the deal.....

And then what happens?

 

[Litch]

And then what happens?

He'll still stay in Spain....

 

[Solius]

He'll still stay in Spain....

And then? Does he find any good restaurants?

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Listen to the tape and ask yourselves if you want the stench of this assaulting creton around the place. He'll bring terrible juju and the shenanigans around him being able to slide back into reputability sickens me. feck him off forever and who cares if he wins the bloon door.

This. For those who want him back, go freshen your memories. It’s on YouTube. If you listen to it through and still want to celebrate/applaud that sort of person as a player, then fair fecks to you but you’re clearly a different breed to me.

You can say “there may be more to the video!!” - but what if there isn’t? Are you really willing to allow “benefit of the doubt” to allow him to come back to us simply because he’s talented?

It’s not even about life and death. There are other players in the world. It’s not as if we’re faced with the choice of brining Greenwood back or going into administration.

Let him have whatever rehabilitation he wants. It’s best for the club and for him to stay away from here. INEOS would be utterly short-sighted to start off their reign with a decision of keeping him.

 

[Rood]

But the original verdict still ended in him leaving the club on loan because it was untenable to reintegrate him, even if the verdict was he didn't commit those crimes. That is a fact in itself.

But will those 4 people be like, "we actually wanted him back and the investigation showed he was innocent, we just had to send him away". Don't think it's a good look to your new boss.

I personally think if he couldn't be reintegrated before, nothing new has come to light since and no one has publicly explained anything since either - how can there be any real discussion? It will be very much like this thread and no group will ever unanimously agree to his return.

Nothing in our fanbase is ever unanimous, the issue last time was the negative public reaction but a lot of this is due to the huge delays to announce anything and then a rushed statement with lack of detail due to the leak.

Also there will have to be an interview, we don't know if they considered doing this last summer and if so, why it didn't happen.

Not difficult to do things better this time around and then I think the vast majority of fans will accept it.

Whether he wants to come back, whether he's playing well enough, how much he's worth are then the other questions that need answering.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I must be the poster on here who has been put on ignore by most amount of people because of one single thread.

How do you know that? Is there a function to see that?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Here's a scenario for you all.

Say the player in question belonged to Arsenal or Chelsea when this incident happened and had a similar two and a half years like he had at OT before not playing for ages and then having an ok (occasionally good but rarely great) period at Getafe, would you want to sign him for 40 million plus?

Would you want to spend money on another troubled winger or would you want to look elsewhere?

Imo, there's not a chance anywhere on here would want to go anywhere near him if he was from anywhere else. His main saving grace from a fan perspective is that he's an academy player. Take that away and what else is there?

I think you’re massively underrating him in this scenario though. Both previous form and his Getafe stint where he has shone in a pretty shite side and been the standout player despite a long time out of the game.

I guess we’ll see but I think he’ll end up at one of the Spanish big three after this season due to the talent you’re underestimating.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He'll stay in Spain and the fee will be used to sign his replacement. We'll put a buy back clause in the deal.....

Very much doubt that, all parties will want a clean break.
If we sell for 40 ish, it’ll be the end of his United link. If we have to sell “cheaply”, we’ll probably ask for a 20% sell on.

 

[BD]

Also there will have to be an interview

What would such an interview be like?

 

[duffer]

What would such an interview be like?

The two of them together at home, talking about the future, vaguely referencing "issues in the past" with no specifics and zero mention of the recording or the pictures.

That's all they could do really.

 

[Rood]

The two of them together at home, talking about the future, vaguely referencing "issues in the past" with no specifics and zero mention of the recording or the pictures.

That's all they could do really.

Ye something like that basically

 

[BD]

The two of them together at home, talking about the future, vaguely referencing "issues in the past" with no specifics and zero mention of the recording or the pictures.

That's all they could do really.

Sounds like a waste of time

 

[Peter van der Gea]

How do you know that? Is there a function to see that?

I keep quoting people, but they don't reply, especially when I mention I'm a Survivor

 

[duffer]

I keep quoting people, but they don't reply, especially when I mention I'm a Survivor

Honestly, I would imagine it's people just not wanting to get into a discussion about this subject with you, rather than you being put on ignore.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

@red.knight , @Scanny ,@Doracle , @Raoul ,@NZT-One , and of course, @Gar&Nachos?

 

[Rood]

Here's a scenario for you all.

Say the player in question belonged to Arsenal or Chelsea when this incident happened and had a similar two and a half years like he had at OT before not playing for ages and then having an ok (occasionally good but rarely great) period at Getafe, would you want to sign him for 40 million plus?

Would you want to spend money on another troubled winger or would you want to look elsewhere?

Imo, there's not a chance anywhere on here would want to go anywhere near him if he was from anywhere else. His main saving grace from a fan perspective is that he's an academy player. Take that away and what else is there?

The answer is obviously No - but he is an Academy player (one of the best ever in fact) and still under contract at Man United so I don't know what the point in the question is

 

[Raoul]

Here's a scenario for you all.

Say the player in question belonged to Arsenal or Chelsea when this incident happened and had a similar two and a half years like he had at OT before not playing for ages and then having an ok (occasionally good but rarely great) period at Getafe, would you want to sign him for 40 million plus?

Would you want to spend money on another troubled winger or would you want to look elsewhere?

Imo, there's not a chance anywhere on here would want to go anywhere near him if he was from anywhere else. His main saving grace from a fan perspective is that he's an academy player. Take that away and what else is there?

Of course, the overriding factor in anyone being interested in him is that he's good at football, and at age 22, signing him for 40m could be one a very good investment given he hasn't reached his professional peak and could remain with the buying club for a decade or more.

 

[Raoul]

I have a feeling that Amad has been told he can leave and that leaves the door open for greenwood a little bit more. If we are offered proper money and the player wants to go we will sell. If they offer a bad deal we will keep the player, as we should. It’s shocking that we have 3 left footed right wingers on the books, all highly rated and none of them did the business for us.

You're probably right here. Amad is probably off given that he hasn't been able to get any minutes and would be behind Antony on the depth chart (who is himself struggling for minutes). Wouldn't be surprised if both are gone this summer. Much will of course depend on who the manager is.

 

[Lash]

Nothing in our fanbase is ever unanimous, the issue last time was the negative public reaction but a lot of this is due to the huge delays to announce anything and then a rushed statement with lack of detail due to the leak.

Also there will have to be an interview, we don't know if they considered doing this last summer and if so, why it didn't happen.

Not difficult to do things better this time around and then I think the vast majority of fans will accept it.

Whether he wants to come back, whether he's playing well enough, how much he's worth are then the other questions that need answering.

I meant from the perspective of the board, if they all decided he should move on in the summer based of the public reaction, why would that change now? The rushed statement was because they changed their position, they have all the detail of the findings, they were just never intending to share it.

I think from the leak there was always a plan for him to do something public, but that was way after the initial integration, photos of him in training, etc. It never happened because they changed their mind based on the reaction to him coming back - that won't be any different this summer.

That is true.

No group will ever unanimously agree to his return. But the vast majority of supporters will swallow whatever decision the club makes either way and move on. You'll get a few who continue to hoohah about it.

I wasn't really talking about the supporters, but the board. I don't see how they do another U-turn. It would look even worse.

 

[Kramer]

I completely understand why people don’t want Greenwood back. That’s fair.

But the constant underrating of his talent and ability is just so off the mark.

Two factors seem to have skewed fans’ perception of him.

-Getafe are a shite team. He hadn’t kicked a ball for 18 months. The way he’s performing for them is pretty commendable. Despite it having taken months for him to reclaim his fitness.

-Yes in his last few displays for United, he had the tendency to be inconsistent and selfish, as any teenage footballer would do.

His ability to finish with both feet is one of the rarest abilities in football.

There are only three players who have ever scored 30+ goals for Manchester United as teenagers in the history of this club. Mason is one. George Best and Norman Whiteside are the others. That’s it. That’s the list. That’s the company he’s in.

He may or may not be worth the trouble bringing him back and reintegrating him back into the team, but he certainly has the potential to score 200+ goals for United and be one of their leading goal scorers in history. We are absolutely talking about an elite level of talent. I cannot understand why that is even up for debate.

That’s the only reason the club is even in a conundrum. Else the decision to let him go is such an easy one.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I keep quoting people, but they don't reply, especially when I mention I'm a Survivor

There is nothing to discuss anymore. You are just looking for people to try and convince you of what might have happened so you can shoot them down with your own experiences. No one wants to play that game anymore.