Mass Shooting in Christchurch, NZ Mosque | 14th March 2019

shamans

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What makes you think I don’t? And what would you recommend, as you appear to be so well educated and must have read so much?
Mo Salah posed for pictures with Kadyrov, posted those on social media, called him his friend and actually appeared with him during the World Cup. What more do you need? Where does accountability start for you?
All this happened, while the whole world knew who Kadyrov was and what he stands for. Salah still took time out of his busy schedule to make sure, that the world knows, that he is friends with this man.
And meanwhile everyone else honored Putin and played in Russia. So it's wrong to buy England national Jersey now. They directly contributed to the cause of a leader like Putin.
 

Dave89

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Surely this is a political career ender? Is western society really so depraved that politicians can ride out such hateful rhetoric?
From what I've been reading, he sneaked in on a technicality after getting 19 (ONE - NINE, not a typo, actually less than twenty) votes so he probably views this as a freeroll to spout his shit for a few years and build a **** following (also not a typo) than he can exploit after his term, rather than harbour any real hopes of re-election.
 

RedDevil@84

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And meanwhile everyone else honored Putin and played in Russia. So it's wrong to buy England national Jersey now. They directly contributed to the cause of a leader like Putin.
You can buy German jerseys though. They played crap in Russia.
 

B20

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From what I've been reading, he sneaked in on a technicality after getting 19 (ONE - NINE, not a typo, actually less than twenty) votes so he probably views this is a freeroll to spout his shit for a few years and build a **** following (also not a typo) than he can exploit after his term, rather than harbour any real hopes of re-election.
What? How does one get elected with 19 votes?
 

Dr. Dwayne

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That's just bs. He hasn't endorsed him or anything. The guy was in Chechnya for a world cup and attended his dinner. What did you want him to do? So he didn't protest against him while in that country.

And what about Putin? Is he an angel then? Last I heard all of the top players in world football were playing there churning money for his country.
I'm just the messenger bro, don't taze me.
 

HTG

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And meanwhile everyone else honored Putin and played in Russia. So it's wrong to buy England national Jersey now. They directly contributed to the cause of a leader like Putin.
There is a difference between work obligations and planned propaganda appearances. And I don’t remember anyone from the English NT posing with Putin and sharing the material.
You still refuse to answer any of my questions. What smart books are there for me to read and where do you believe accountability should start, if a person who is actively endorsing the man responsible for the torture and killing of innocents seems to be alright for you?
 

Dave89

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What? How does one get elected with 19 votes?
I believe the winner was ruled ineligible due to citizenship issues, and rather then re-run the vote, they just gave it to him instead.

That said, I am as confused as you and am open to correction.
 

2mufc0

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Can we not take the thread off topic with the Salah talk?
 

shamans

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There is a difference between work obligations and planned propaganda appearances. And I don’t remember anyone from the English NT posing with Putin and sharing the material.
You still refuse to answer any of my questions. What smart books are there for me to read and where do you believe accountability should start, if a person who is actively endorsing the man responsible for the torture and killing of innocents seems to be alright for you?
It was a figure of speech. I meant to say educate yourself and stop drawing petty conclusions i.e Salah. Now I won't talk more about this and take it off topic.
 

HTG

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It was a figure of speech. I meant to say educate yourself and stop drawing petty conclusions i.e Salah. Now I won't talk more about this and take it off topic.
Of course it was. A pretty condescending and insulting one.
 

Florida Man

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The idea that a majority of people aren’t racist only holds up, if we do what you are doing: refusing to call racism racism.
Prejudices towards a certain race, is what racism is. There is no wriggle room and I won’t let that slide, because you are trying to pull that off topic stuff on me, because the conversation is getting difficult for you.
The idea that most of us embrace tolerance gets thrown around a lot, but I still struggle to see on what it’s based.
I’m not wiggling out of shit. I’m typing this with my thumbs so my desire to have these long drawn out discussions are not high at the moment. Take this to the racism thread for all I care.

And if you can’t see where tolerance is based, then go live in a multicultural place. I have.
 

Florida Man

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Nah, racism is just more common than we're led to believe because it doesn't present itself in white hoods & nazism, and I have no problem calling it out.
So you accept that you have prejudices of your own and that you are indeed racist?
 

HTG

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I’m not wiggling out of shit. I’m typing this with my thumbs so my desire to have these long drawn out discussions are not high at the moment. Take this to the racism thread for all I care.

And if you can’t see where tolerance is based, then go live in a multicultural place. I have.
You refused to accept the literal definition of racism as racism. What would you call that?
 

villain

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I don't have an issue with you calling them racist, I don't care about their feelings and if you read my posts you probably realized that I don't have issues with being blunt. Now when it comes to fixing issues I do have an issue with the idea of having a one size fits all answer, I definitely make a difference between people that have prejudices because they are not all equal, the source of the prejudices and the level of conviction will affect the way I see people and how I will handle them.
Also I don't have an idealised view of humanity, I simply believe that we are different and everything needs to be dealt within its own context, that's why I said that you need to interact with people to know how to handle them. I didn't suggest that interacting with them will automatically dissolve prejudices but not interacting, not contextualising will definitely lead you nowhere.
Oh yeah trust me, I know you're very blunt and your views (from what I've seen of them) normally align with mine, I don't want my words to be misconstrued as if i'm attacking you or what you said at all :) I know I can come off like a cold-hearted bitch on here sometimes :lol:

I've just grown tired of tolerating the intolerant, you know? Especially in the wake of events like this, i'm not okay with brushing off incidents of racism because it doesn't fit a dictionary definition of what racism is, and it's become so normalised in society we don't call it out any more.

So you accept that you have prejudices of your own and that you are indeed racist?
I don't generalise or pre-judge people based on the colour of their skin, so no i'm not racist.
By your definition, racism is only a problem if it's acted upon because everyone has prejudices including yourself (and is therefore normal) - what i'm saying is that, racism is learned behaviour, it shouldn't be normal and it needs to be rooted out of society by calling it out, even when it's not extreme.
 

Florida Man

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You refused to accept the literal definition of racism as racism. What would you call that?
Yeah that definition...which is based of the belief that one’s race is superior. Don’t tell me how to English.
 

Florida Man

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I don't generalise or pre-judge people based on the colour of their skin, so no i'm not racist.
By your definition, racism is only a problem if it's acted upon because everyone has prejudices including yourself (and is therefore normal) - what i'm saying is that, racism is learned behaviour, it shouldn't be normal and it needs to be rooted out of society by calling it out, even when it's not extreme.
You don’t half put words into someone’s mouth do you? My definition of racism is the same as the literal definition for your information. And as someone who has actually experienced racism from multiple races of people, I find your statement to be absurd. I bet you never call out your own race for racism.
 

Vitro

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I don't generalise or pre-judge people based on the colour of their skin, so no i'm not racist.
By your definition, racism is only a problem if it's acted upon because everyone has prejudices including yourself (and is therefore normal) - what i'm saying is that, racism is learned behaviour, it shouldn't be normal and it needs to be rooted out of society by calling it out, even when it's not extreme.
Out of interest, what would you make of implicit association tests which if IIRC conclude that 90-95% of people show some measure of unconscious racial bias?
 

Bratt

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Despite some sick and absolute wickedness in people in the World, let us not forget the majority of the worlds people live in co-existence in absolute peace and support their fellow human beings.
So true, terrorists on either side, should and will never make us forget this.
 

RedDevil@84

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So true, terrorists on either side, should and will never make us forget this.
That is why we have terrorists in political circles stoking fires of hatred among people, in the garb of free speech.
 

afrocentricity

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There'll be more... Muslims must be fearful and paranoid right now. People who even look Muslim included...
 

Prometheus

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I'm surprised there haven't been more incidents like this tbh, given the sheer number of Islamist terrorist attacks in the West over the past 20 years.
Wait, what? Why would you expect that? There have been no Islamist terror attacks in New Zealand either.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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Despite some sick and absolute wickedness in people in the World, let us not forget the majority of the worlds people live in co-existence in absolute peace and support their fellow human beings.
I don't know, Sults. These days it feels like the coexistence is tolerated, but only just. And those who oppose it or disagree with the way others live are chipping away at the floodgates, hoping that hatred and intolerance spill out into the open.
 

villain

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You don’t half put words into someone’s mouth do you? My definition of racism is the same as the literal definition for your information. And as someone who has actually experienced racism from multiple races of people, I find your statement to be absurd. I bet you never call out your own race for racism.
As someone who has experienced racism, you find it absurd that i'm saying that we shouldn't only call out racism when it manifests into actions?
I'd like to think we can aspire for a more tolerant society that doesn't discriminate, because racism is learned and therefore it can be unlearned.

Also since you said everyone has prejudices, does that mean that according to you everyone is racist?

Out of interest, what would you make of implicit association tests which if IIRC conclude that 90-95% of people show some measure of unconscious racial bias?
Not really sure what to make of them to be honest, I've taken them a few times over the years and the results were different each time.
Ultimately we can't really control our unconscious mind especially since we know so little about it.
 

Ramshock

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I don't know, Sults. These days it feels like the coexistence is tolerated, but only just. And those who oppose it or disagree with the way others live are chipping away at the floodgates, hoping that hatred and intolerance spill out into the open.
I agree..I think an actual war of ideologies isn't too far off!
 

Borden

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Wait, what? Why would you expect that? There have been no Islamist terror attacks in New Zealand either.
Because human beings are tribal. There hadn't been any Islamist terror attacks in Norway either (well, apart from the attempted assassination of the Norwegian publisher of the Satanic Verses in the early 90's), but white Westerners identify with other white Westerners, especially when they are killed by 'foreigners'.

Like that black guy who started shooting white cops in Dallas a few years ago, after a wave of incidents involving white cops shooting unarmed black people. It wasn't exactly a shock to see a backlash like that.
 

Prometheus

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I don't know, Sults. These days it feels like the coexistence is tolerated, but only just. And those who oppose it or disagree with the way others live are chipping away at the floodgates, hoping that hatred and intolerance spill out into the open.
According to people who analyse history the past fifty years have been the most peaceful period in human history. Anything that happens anywhere in the world arrives at a device in our hands within seconds, so most tragedies are felt everywhere - this makes it feel like the world is quickly going to shit, but also probably creates animosity/adds to the tension.
 

CassiusClaymore

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Apparently the Daily Mail allowed it's online readers to download a copy of this scumbags 'manifesto' earlier today. Would someone please just prosecute them already. Surely a crime under the terrorism act?
 

Cloud7

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Just to add my two cents on the whole Pewdiepie thing.

I’ve never watched any of his videos, but the one guy I know who is a white supremacist (who incidentally is NOT white himself) has come out in support of Pewdiepie, claiming he follows him and he doesn’t endorse this sort of thing.

The fact that this person likes Pewdiepie is enough for me to know that he no doubt does encourage these far right madmen.
 

NoLogo

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According to people who analyse history the past fifty years have been the most peaceful period in human history. Anything that happens anywhere in the world arrives at a device in our hands within seconds, so most tragedies are felt everywhere - this makes it feel like the world is quickly going to shit, but also probably creates animosity/adds to the tension.
This is def worth remembering. It's just that the media presence of these events has change. Afaik this was the first live streamed terrorist attack and I'm afraid not the last. But yes the world these days is as save as it never was during the entire history of humankind.
 

Florida Man

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As someone who has experienced racism, you find it absurd that i'm saying that we shouldn't only call out racism when it manifests into actions?
I'd like to think we can aspire for a more tolerant society that doesn't discriminate, because racism is learned and therefore it can be unlearned.

Also since you said everyone has prejudices, does that mean that according to you everyone is racist?



Not really sure what to make of them to be honest, I've taken them a few times over the years and the results were different each time.
Ultimately we can't really control our unconscious mind especially since we know so little about it.
What is absurd is how you put words into my mouth as to what I believe racism entails. I know very well the difference between prejudice because of visual differences and prejudice because of a feeling of one’s race being superior. And no, I don’t think everyone is a racist, but I do agree it’s more common than we think. I especially dislike when middle class white people pretend it’s not there anymore because they are zoned out in their safe little bubbles. But I do have strong disagreement with how you classify any form of prejudice as racist. Furthermore, it doesn’t fit the literal definition. Also consider what tolerance is. It doesn’t mean we all like each other equally and all that. But we tolerate despite whatever subconscious or other preconceived notions we have. Don’t believe me? Go hang out in Queens or the Bronx. Hundreds of different cultures there with lots of prejudice tendencies, but most of them get along just fine. That’s tolerance.
 

Prometheus

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Because human beings are tribal. There hadn't been any Islamist terror attacks in Norway either (well, apart from the attempted assassination of the Norwegian publisher of the Satanic Verses in the early 90's), but white Westerners identify with other white Westerners, especially when they are killed by 'foreigners'.

Like that black guy who started shooting white cops in Dallas a few years ago, after a wave of incidents involving white cops shooting unarmed black people. It wasn't exactly a shock to see a backlash like that.
I guess it's basically a case of trying to make sense of irrational acts: they inherently don't make sense.
 

afrocentricity

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Just to add my two cents on the whole Pewdiepie thing.

I’ve never watched any of his videos, but the one guy I know who is a white supremacist (who incidentally is NOT white himself) has come out in support of Pewdiepie, claiming he follows him and he doesn’t endorse this sort of thing.

The fact that this person likes Pewdiepie is enough for me to know that he no doubt does encourage these far right madmen.
The guy literally tells people to seek out that shitty YouTuber in his manifesto apparently, hell of an endorsement. PDP was an annoying cnut long before he turned out to be a racist cnut... They all love him now.