Mass Shooting in Christchurch, NZ Mosque | 14th March 2019

[SilentWitness]

It makes me feel sick that my partner could be attacked just for the way she looks or for her religion. These attacks were always disgusting to wake up to but since this personal link has come into it the uneasiness has increased immensely. It's amazing how short term memory consciousness attributes to certain behaviours - the irony of one of his points being that Muslims have invaded and killed those in his country is lost and the events in his own country have been forgotten that exhibit the same behaviour in his white ancestry. Short term memory consciousness has also created the Islamophobia in terms of the general public - you only need to look at the Shamima Begum case to see that. I consider myself quite a level headed bloke but it psyched me in regards to worrying what our respective families would think about us being together which is really sad considering how progressive we have become generally, aside from these subordinate people that gain way too much media attention than they should and completely ingrain into our minds rather than what really matters - coming together.

The websites that they frequent should not be closed but have special taskforces that monitor them, if we delete the sites they'll just find new places to go. Limit their platform by all means, but regulate it, they won't go away but we can minimise them and the risk. Another step is to fecking limit the platform that morons like that Australian politician have. There is no human that should wish for someone like that to be in a position of power, let alone have the platform to portray their disgusting view.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

But both believe they are doing it for overall societies benefit.

Also, willing to bet most of the pawns in ISIS or Taliban dont really give a shit about the religious aspect. They're often young teens impressed by guns and heavy armor and shootin' up the enemy.

You suddenly go from herding sheep in the desert to being part of an action movie.

I don't think they've had the luxury of being able to watch action movies, though I get your point.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

I'm surprised there haven't been more incidents like this tbh, given the sheer number of Islamist terrorist attacks in the West over the past 20 years.

Well there was that Mosque shooting in Quebec few years back and then some twat drove a van into a mosque in the UK couple years back. Those are two off the top of my head and there has been a significant rise in islamphobic driven attacks but often they are not at this scale due to the fact that Muslims are a tiny minority in the West.

 

[Raees]

Thoughts go out to the Muslim brothers who died in this horrific attack - RIP.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

I'm surprised there haven't been more incidents like this tbh, given the sheer number of Islamist terrorist attacks in the West over the past 20 years.

Seems pretty similar to the Pittsburgh synagogue incident tbh.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

Social media is a cesspool, everyone is blaming one and other for this horrific attack. Using 49 victims of a shooting as a political football

R.I.P to the 49 victims of these horrific attacks

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

A problem I saw in your post is that the real world factors you mentioned were basically limited to neoliberalism and economic hardship. Not saying that's all you deem relevant, but in that regard I can understand the critical reaction. Of course the pressure of worsening economic conditions can't be ignored as a central factor. But it only goes so far in explaining some aspects, like the racism among people who aren't facing economic deprivation, or the misogyny and homophobia often involved.

But I agree that internet consumption as such isn't the problem & that it's rather what draws certain people into certain sections of the web. The way the internet works is certainly massively supporting these developments, though.

I think there’s a whole slew of factors at play here, and if you go deep enough the current Islamophobia and general clusterfeck in the ME is just another continuation of age old conflicts starting with Greco-Persian wars. We also live in an increasingly superfluous world with celebrity worship, rabid consumption, everything turning into competition, and deification of magazine front page physique/beauty standards, all of which can drive a perfectly normal, unexceptional kid towards feelings of inadequacy that eventually spiral out of control and lead him into cesspools like 4chan/reddit. Solving those issues require a fundamental shift in how we structure our society though, and at the heart of that, the elephant in the room is still our current wealth inequality and economic structure.

 

[Sultan]

The Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was sent as a mercy to the worlds. If we are to honour the Prophet it is by adopting the beautiful character of our Prophet and not through the emotions of anger and hate. We should pray to God that he mends the ways of each and everyone residing on this earth to love and respect each other. Lets not the actions of a very few lost souls divide us and sow any hatred in our societies.

 

[Borden]

Well there was that Mosque shooting in Quebec few years back and then some twat drove a van into a mosque in the UK couple years back. Those are two off the top of my head and there has been a significant rise in islamphobic driven attacks but often they are not at this scale due to the fact that Muslims are a tiny minority in the West.

Seems pretty similar to the Pittsburgh synagogue incident tbh.

Oh I know there have been some, but not as many as one perhaps might expect, and certainly not many of this scale.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Oh I know there have been some, but not as many as one perhaps might expect, and certainly not many of this scale.

Not many attacks of this scale tbh. I mean 49 dead that’s just insane.

 

[afrocentricity]

40 people still being treated.
Some critical, some as young as 3.

 

[Zlatattack]

I don't know what to say. I'm just angry and dissapointed.

 

[villain]

My experience is that you can't tell until you have interacted with these people, for a large part they are no different to eurosceptics claiming for example that the EU is a dictatorship. They are simply parroting things that they heard, they don't really have strong believes, just vague notions. They could be racists or eurosceptics, or they could be parrots, you will know after you have interacted with them and that interaction will tell you how you need to handle them.

To me the normalization comes from the lack of actual interaction, lots of people are extremely ignorant and sometimes not aware of their ignorance. Maybe I'm wrong to differentiate the people that know what they are talking/doing about and the ones that don't have a clue.

I understand what you're saying but I think you have a an idealised view of humanity, which is understandable of course.
Being discriminatory of any kind is learned behaviour, so by definition it can't be ignorance - if you have no experience with the people you're discriminating against you learned it from your environment in some way, either directly (friends, family) or indirectly (media) & not having strong beliefs doesn't absolve you from racism either - racism is on a scale with Nazis/KKK being at the extremist end, but if you're on the less extreme end, you're still racist.
Calling it ignorance or prejudice or dancing around the subject so they can't be deemed racist is normalising their behaviour.

You assume that interacting with the people they hold negative views of will change their mind - not always, in the case of this shooter he visited the mosque and commented on how friendly they were to him - it didn't change his opinion of them.

We have to accept just how common and frequent racism is, if we refuse to do so because it's such an emotionally charged word, we wont get anywhere.

 

[2mufc0]

Did anyone watch the video? Heard about it but have no intention to...

I did, but wished I hadn't now, it was unnerving how cool and callous he was, not sure how he can be human.

Spoiler: graphic depiction

One of victims was lying in the street shouting 'someone help me' he just casually walks over and shoots her in the head.

 

[NoLogo]

Did anyone watch the video? Heard about it but have no intention to...

I unfortunately did. I wish I hadn't. Don't do it man.

Spoiler: video description graphic content

Unless you are okay watching someone with a m4a1 shooting at people cowering in a corner multiple times until they stop moving. Just remembering this again makes me feel nauseous

Curiosity got the better of me I guess but damn I learned a lesson, there are certain things in life that are just not worth witnessing and this was one of them.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

40 people still being treated.
Some critical, some as young as 3.

Christ! I can't understand how anyone could turn a weapon on a child.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Oh I know there have been some, but not as many as one perhaps might expect, and certainly not many of this scale.

There were also a couple of Indian engineers chilling at a bar in Kansas City who were shot dead by a veteran who mistook them for Iranians. Its easy to forget them as sporadic incidents but put together, they seem to happen at remarkable consistency now a days.

 

[entropy]

Please tell me again why giving platform to assholes like Alex jones doesn’t help spreading hateful rhetoric against minorities.

 

[Mockney]

Social media is a cesspool, everyone is blaming one and other for this horrific attack. Using 49 victims of a shooting as a political football

Everything about it is political. He wrote a manifesto.

 

[VeevaVee]

Nearly 50 dead and 40 to be treated? Did he carry on after the mosque in the video? Flicked through it unfortunately before any info came out about it (don't watch it). Didn't look like that many. Was there someone else at another mosque? Initial reports made it sound like there was.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I'm surprised there haven't been more incidents like this tbh, given the sheer number of Islamist terrorist attacks in the West over the past 20 years.

Wait, wut?

 

[HTG]

It makes me feel sick that my partner could be attacked just for the way she looks or for her religion. These attacks were always disgusting to wake up to but since this personal link has come into it the uneasiness has increased immensely.

I still remember how Orlando made me feel. You live your life knowing and experience all this hatred, but I always talked myself into believing, that I will not experience any violence over it and that it gets better. Than somebody shot so many people for being exactly the way I am. It’s a terrible feeling. It’s frightening and it’s sickening. I felt so helpless, lonely and angry at that time. I couldn’t even stand to watch the news. I feel for Muslims everywhere. I really do. It’s absolutely horrible.

For those who feel like that, do something about it. There are things we can do. Become a member of a party, go to demonstrations, call people out when they talk shit. There are things we can do. Don’t succumb to the powerlessness, do something.

 

[hobbers]

Nearly 50 dead and 40 to be treated? Did he carry on after the mosque in the video? Flicked through it unfortunately before any info came out about it (don't watch it). Didn't look like that many. Was there someone else at another mosque? Initial reports made it sound like there was.

Looking at the map of where his feed cut off I think it's pretty likely he carried out the shooting at the second mosque as well.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Four far right terror plots were foiled in the UK last year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43200966

 

[RedDevil@84]

S**t head

 

[VeevaVee]

Looking at the map of where his feed cut off I think it's pretty likely he carried out the shooting at the second mosque as well.

Feck. I didn't realise he'd gone to another.

 

[afrocentricity]

The role of social media in this is disturbing... Someone mentioned identifying and/or calling out bad online behaviour, they were spot on.

Feck. I didn't realise he'd gone to another.

Yup he went to a second mosque.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Please tell me again why giving platform to assholes like Alex jones doesn’t help spreading hateful rhetoric against minorities.

Free speech, unfortunately it works both ways for the oppressors and the oppressed.

 

[HTG]

The role of social media in this is disturbing... Someone mentioned identifying and/or call out bad online behaviour, they were spot on.

Always call it out. No matter how often people call you a snowflake, a SJW or whatever. The internet is not different from real life, it’s part of it. We must treat it like that. The idea, that norms of behavior don’t apply online, hast to stop.

 

[Florida Man]

I understand what you're saying but I think you have a an idealised view of humanity, which is understandable of course.
Being discriminatory of any kind is learned behaviour, so by definition it can't be ignorance - if you have no experience with the people you're discriminating against you learned it from your environment in some way, either directly (friends, family) or indirectly (media) & not having strong beliefs doesn't absolve you from racism either - racism is on a scale with Nazis/KKK being at the extremist end, but if you're on the less extreme end, you're still racist.
Calling it ignorance or prejudice or dancing around the subject so they can't be deemed racist is normalising their behaviour.

You assume that interacting with the people they hold negative views of will change their mind - not always, in the case of this shooter he visited the mosque and commented on how friendly they were to him - it didn't change his opinion of them.

We have to accept just how common and frequent racism is, if we refuse to do so because it's such an emotionally charged word, we wont get anywhere.

Is everything racist to you? Everyone has prejudices. You have prejudices. Even people who are multi cultural and who live in multi cultural communities have prejudices. I’ve lived in these communities and have seen it myself, yet none of them are going racist on each other. By your logic everyone is a racist.

 

[HTG]

Is everything racist to you? Everyone has prejudices. You have prejudices. Even people who are multi cultural and who live in multi cultural communities have prejudices. I’ve lived in these communities and have seen it myself, yet none of them are going racist on each other. By your logic everyone is a racist.

Being prejudiced towards people based on their ethnicity or race (I can’t get my head around the fact, that the English language still uses the word ‚race’ here) is literally the definition of racism.

 

[Synco]

I think there’s a whole slew of factors at play here, and if you go deep enough the current Islamophobia and general clusterfeck in the ME is just another continuation of age old conflicts starting with Greco-Persian wars. We also live in an increasingly superfluous world with celebrity worship, rabid consumption, everything turning into competition, and deification of magazine front page physique/beauty standards, all of which can drive a perfectly normal, unexceptional kid towards feelings of inadequacy that eventually spiral out of control and lead him into cesspools like 4chan/reddit. Solving those issues require a fundamental shift in how we structure our society though, and at the heart of that, the elephant in the room is still our current wealth inequality and economic structure.

General agreement on how fundamental social relations, the culture they produce, and the ensuing individual identity struggles are crucial for the development of resentment and bigotry. But as a result, I'd put the problem with capitalism on an even more fundamental scale, perhaps less accentuating its more recent forms. (Not as much focus on inequality, but rather on the basic relationships capitalism establishes between people, which wouldn't be any different in case of a more favourable distribution of wealth.)

First sentence is an interesting point, thought about this myself recently, but came to partly different conclusions.

But I feel this is not the right thread/time to discuss these things in more detail, so I'll leave it here. Perhaps the Fear and hatred of Muslims thread would do at a later point.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Being prejudiced towards people based on their ethnicity or race (I can’t get my head around the fact, that the English language still uses the word ‚race’ here) is literally the definition of racism.

As always in similar threads, people keep arguing about what defines as racism and what not. For some it is only the skin color that defines it. For some it also includes xenophobia and other similar stuff

 

[Florida Man]

Being prejudiced towards people based on their ethnicity or race (I can’t get my head around the fact, that the English language still uses the word ‚race’ here) is literally the definition of racism.

Prejudices exist because people look different from each other. Doesn’t equate to actually disliking a race or thinking one race is below or above another, let alone being inspired to shoot others point blank. Over time, most of us embraced tolerance, which is in spite of our prejudices rather than because of the eradication of them. My two cents on it, I don’t want to further take this off topic from the thread OP.

 

[Adnan]

S**t head

Is this real? If it, is then i'm lost for words..

 

[villain]

Is everything racist to you? Everyone has prejudices. You have prejudices. Even people who are multi cultural and who live in multi cultural communities have prejudices. I’ve lived in these communities and have seen it myself, yet none of them are going racist on each other. By your logic everyone is a racist.

Nah, racism is just more common than we're led to believe because it doesn't present itself in white hoods & nazism, and I have no problem calling it out.

 

[HTG]

Prejudices exist because people look different from each other. Doesn’t equate to actually disliking a race or thinking one race is below or above another, let alone being inspired to shoot others point blank. Over time, most of us embraced tolerance, which is in spite of our prejudices rather than because of the eradication of them. My two cents on it, I don’t want to further take this off topic from the thread OP.

The idea that a majority of people aren’t racist only holds up, if we do what you are doing: refusing to call racism racism.
Prejudices towards a certain race, is what racism is. There is no wriggle room and I won’t let that slide, because you are trying to pull that off topic stuff on me, because the conversation is getting difficult for you.
The idea that most of us embrace tolerance gets thrown around a lot, but I still struggle to see on what it’s based.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Is this real? If it, is then i'm lost for words..

Oh it is real alright

 

[RobinLFC]

S**t head

"I totally condemn the actions of the gunman ... HOWEVER"

Cnut.

 

[HTG]

"I totally condemn the actions of the gunman ... HOWEVER"

Cnut.

And like Trump, Orban and so on, that man was voted into office. But sure, the vast majority of people holds no racist sentiments.