Regulus Arcturus Black
Full Member
Agreed.He’s a fine defender who will be a great singing for whoever gets him but the need to label him generational is just absurd.
Agreed.He’s a fine defender who will be a great singing for whoever gets him but the need to label him generational is just absurd.
Ramos cost €25m. Give me a break.Underwhelmed. He only underwhelmed if your expectation was that he would be insanely good every week. De Ligt may have been inconsitent at times, but many times he also got very positive critiques, acknowledging that he was the new leader of the team/defense.
Guess what, Sergio Ramos wasn't great every week when he was 22. He even kept getting stupid red cards when he was in his prime. I can't think of any defenders that barely make mistakes. Even the great PL is loaded with defenders that are prone to mistakes. Even VVD makes the odd mistake and De Ligt is a superior player to VVD at 22. De Ligt is not perfect, but makes few mistakes. Has been unlucky to concede penalties with unintentional handballs a few times, but what do you do about that? Above all he is a typcal PL defender. Has the energy, the physique, the leadership and unlike most PL defenders he can actually kick a ball.
You paid 80m for Maguire, so what are you on about with your inflated fee? Juventus paid a fair value and them selling for €90m now is actually cheap. As I said, you paid more for Maguire and he never was more than half the player De Ligt is. Liverpool paid €85m for VVD when he was 27 and didnt even have half the experience De Ligt already has at 22. De Ligt had more caps for the NT when Ajax sold him (at 19 y/o) than VVD had when Liverpool bought him (at 27 y/o). De Ligt below €100m is a steal. There are no 22 yo defenders with his experience and qualities. You are buying someone with experience of a 28 yo but who's still only 22, has major room to grow and easily has 10 quality years to go.
He won the golden boy and i dont know many other defenders who are as good as he is at his age. If you have to label a young defender generational it would be Matthijs de Ligt. You dont have to be labeled a generational talent to be a fantastic defender. I dont think Rio or Vidic were named generational for example.He’s a fine defender who will be a great singing for whoever gets him but the need to label him generational is just absurd.
In 2005. Bit of a difference dont you think? Starting prices for young talented defenders at clubs like Seville is atleast 40m now. 25m was huge in 2005.Ramos cost €25m. Give me a break.
In 2005, think it was also some sort of record fee for something. Be it age or position given he had been playing RB.Ramos cost €25m. Give me a break.
I wonder what the average house price and gas price are back in 2005.Ramos cost €25m. Give me a break.
This is not aimed at you particularly, it’s a common theme on this board, but when you make a confident statement like ‘De Ligt is a superior player to Van Dijk at 22’ can you explain exactly and specifically how you came to that conclusion? Because otherwise it might appear like you’ve just plucked a comparison out of the air to prove your point. So how many Celtic games did you see live in 2013, when VVD was 22? Which games (name the opponent) did you remember, and then hold on to that information for 9 years, that you then used to compare him with De Ligt at 22? Who I’m imagining you must also have seen live multiple times in order to be certain that he is better. Which opponents was he better against this season (name the opponent)? And how did you factor in the difference between the quality of opponents and the quality of team mates and the styles of play?Underwhelmed. He only underwhelmed if your expectation was that he would be insanely good every week. De Ligt may have been inconsitent at times, but many times he also got very positive critiques, acknowledging that he was the new leader of the team/defense.
Guess what, Sergio Ramos wasn't great every week when he was 22. He even kept getting stupid red cards when he was in his prime. I can't think of any defenders that barely make mistakes. Even the great PL is loaded with defenders that are prone to mistakes. Even VVD makes the odd mistake and De Ligt is a superior player to VVD at 22. De Ligt is not perfect, but makes few mistakes. Has been unlucky to concede penalties with unintentional handballs a few times, but what do you do about that? Above all he is a typcal PL defender. Has the energy, the physique, the leadership and unlike most PL defenders he can actually kick a ball.
You paid 80m for Maguire, so what are you on about with your inflated fee? Juventus paid a fair value and them selling for €90m now is actually cheap. As I said, you paid more for Maguire and he never was more than half the player De Ligt is. Liverpool paid €85m for VVD when he was 27 and didnt even have half the experience De Ligt already has at 22. De Ligt had more caps for the NT when Ajax sold him (at 19 y/o) than VVD had when Liverpool bought him (at 27 y/o). De Ligt below €100m is a steal. There are no 22 yo defenders with his experience and qualities. You are buying someone with experience of a 28 yo but who's still only 22, has major room to grow and easily has 10 quality years to go.
He easily has the highest potential out of all the young defenders currently on the market (those that I know off at least) do it ain't that absurd.He’s a fine defender who will be a great singing for whoever gets him but the need to label him generational is just absurd.
Does it need to be so complicated? Or isn't it just common sense that a regular starter for a team like Juventus has to be better than someone playing at Celtic in the Scottish league?This is not aimed at you particularly, it’s a common theme on this board, but when you make a confident statement like ‘De Ligt is a superior player to Van Dijk at 22’ can you explain exactly and specifically how you came to that conclusion? Because otherwise it might appear like you’ve just plucked a comparison out of the air to prove your point. So how many Celtic games did you see live in 2013, when VVD was 22? Which games (name the opponent) did you remember, and then hold on to that information for 9 years, that you then used to compare him with De Ligt at 22? Who I’m imagining you must also have seen live multiple times in order to be certain that he is better. Which opponents was he better against this season (name the opponent)? And how did you factor in the difference between the quality of opponents and the quality of team mates and the styles of play?
EtH would not choose Martinez over De Ligt. Look at the trouble we’re having persuading De Jong. The similar mistake is our fanbase still thinking it’s 10 years ago, you say both are too good for Europa league yet you’re convinced EtH could persuade them both why? Martinez is the level we’re at, we simply have to hope the coach can over perform & the next De Ligt chooses us.The fact that we're pushing for Martinez suggests that we're not all that interested in de Ligt, unfortunately. He and de Jong are too good to be playing in the Europa league, but I genuinely think Ten Hag could have persuaded both to join us, and our spine would be vastly improved for years.
It looks like we're making similar mistakes, trying to buy mid range players, overpaying and hoping they'll be good enough to get us back into the CL straight away. I'd much rather buy top players that are somewhat less of a risk and put faith in our excellent youth products this season. We finally have a top level coach that develops and improves players.
Tbf 25 million back then isn't the same as 25 million in 2022Ramos cost €25m. Give me a break.
I'm not so sure it's a case of Martinez over De Ligt. Think it's more the fact that Martinez is left footed. Almost as if he is in a completely different category.EtH would not choose Martinez over De Ligt. Look at the trouble we’re having persuading De Jong. The similar mistake is our fanbase still thinking it’s 10 years ago, you say both are too good for Europa league yet you’re convinced EtH could persuade them both why? Martinez is the level we’re at, we simply have to hope the coach can over perform & the next De Ligt chooses us.
Definitely not correct to say that. Do you think Kalvin Philips will have become a better player overnight now he’s gone from playing for relegation fodder to league champions? Because by your argument, last week Kalvin was a worse midfielder than player X, Y, Z etc, and this week he’s better.Does it need to be so complicated? Or isn't it just common sense that a regular starter for a team like Juventus has to be better than someone playing at Celtic in the Scottish league?
I would say Kalvin Philips at 26 played well enough to earn his big move to Man City. VVD at 22, unlike De Ligt, had yet earned his big move to a big club.Definitely not correct to say that. Do you think Kalvin Philips will have become a better player overnight now he’s gone from playing for relegation fodder to league champions? Because by your argument, last week Kalvin was a worse midfielder than player X, Y, Z etc, and this week he’s better.
Part of the reason we are getting Martinez will indeed be his left footedness/balance. The post I responded to says the fact we’re going after Martinez shows we’re not interested in De Ligt which is ludicrous. I’d agree with you they’re in different categories.I'm not so sure it's a case of Martinez over De Ligt. Think it's more the fact that Martinez is left footed. Almost as if he is in a completely different category.
Yeah, I agree that ten Hag would be all over De Ligt if we needed a right footer and money was no object.Part of the reason we are getting Martinez will indeed be his left footedness/balance. The post I responded to says the fact we’re going after Martinez shows we’re not interested in De Ligt which is ludicrous. I’d agree with you they’re in different categories.
£65m would be about £30m too much given his football over the last couple of yearsde Light would be perfect for United. If he is available for £65m it’s a bargain.
Four former Ajax players at United is risky business for ETH
I mean if I was De Ligt or Juve I’d happily leak these stories to get a better fee for player or club. Who knows if it’s genuine or agent work.
Seems like German and Munich based reporters are saying he prefers Bayern over Chelsea while Italian reporters are reporting the opposite, that he prefers a move to the PL.
Every club pretty much has agreed terms with the player before they make their first bid, it's just us who don't seem to do it. But yeah, no one gives a shite about tapping up anymore it seems.Is tapping up still a thing? Seems like nobody cares anymore.
That label annoys me so much. Not just in relation to De Ligt, it’s used to describe every player that’s any good at anything and it’s nonsense.He’s a fine defender who will be a great singing for whoever gets him but the need to label him generational is just absurd.
Just what I was coming to post. I’m sure Bayern are genuinely interested in him but this just smells of Juve pressuring us into paying closer to the €100m price that they apparently want. Which we won’t go near, imo.Seems like German and Munich based reporters are saying he prefers Bayern over Chelsea while Italian reporters are reporting the opposite, that he prefers a move to the PL.
Interesting to see how this one develops. Juve are hoping to spark a bidding war between our clubs and raise the price but I think neither Bayern or Chelsea will meet an asking price of over £80m.
I don’t consider the de Ligt situation to be “tapping up”, but maybe I interpret the term or situation wrongIs tapping up still a thing? Seems like nobody cares anymore.
I am pretty much in this camp. 70/80m seems alot for what he is. I just feel he is slightly overrated.Not sold on De Ligt, he's a good defender but is error prone and wouldn't justify a hefty fee. Bayern is a good move for him, the tempo of German football would be a good match the lack of physicality could bring out his technical side more. Bayern just have to be careful not to end up with another Upamecano situation due to the hype of a player.
It is pretty obvious that Juve wants to sell with two years left on his contract to maximize the price since there won’t be an extension at Juve. Therefore, this does not qualify as „tapping up“ (which nonetheless happens all the time).I don’t consider the de Ligt situation to be “tapping up”, but maybe I interpret the term or situation wrong
I guess he was referring to the fact that Salihamidzic has been in constant contact with the player despite him being on the books of another club.I don’t consider the de Ligt situation to be “tapping up”, but maybe I interpret the term or situation wrong
German Sky and especially Florian Plettenberg (he was the first one to report that Bayern wants to sign Mané) seem quite convinced that Bayern will go "all out" for de Ligt that he prefers a move to us.Just what I was coming to post. I’m sure Bayern are genuinely interested in him but this just smells of Juve pressuring us into paying closer to the €100m price that they apparently want. Which we won’t go near, imo.
Any kind of contact with a player under contract elsewhere, without explicit authorisation from the club, would've landed you in hot water once upon a time. Nevermind "agreeing personal terms" with them. Either way, it doesn't really seem to be a thing anymore.I don’t consider the de Ligt situation to be “tapping up”, but maybe I interpret the term or situation wrong