He's something else. 1 man team.
Messi at the World Cup - No Ronaldo comparisons!
- Thread starter amolbhatia50k
- Start date
Hopefully the likes of usa/Belgium and Holland have a go at the Argies so they can show that counter attacking threat
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lionel-messi-is-impossible/#ss-2
Looking at Messi in general and how he is doing at the World Cup (and why he is clearly the best player in the world).
In short: he has closed the gap between his performances for club and country. And he is much better than everyone else.
Looking at Messi in general and how he is doing at the World Cup (and why he is clearly the best player in the world).
In short: he has closed the gap between his performances for club and country. And he is much better than everyone else.
Football is a team game and no individual can just completely steal the show regardless of how his team perform. I loved watching zidane for example but he'd struggle in such a terribly dysfunctional Argentina team which seems to have no one in form and some absolutely horrendous performers.
My guess is that this isn't a task that pele or maradona succeeded at either. It isn't just a case of not having iniesta and xavi. It's about playing in a good and balanced side at least. Also, I think you overrate his need to prove himself. His club career has already put him amongst the all time greats. Given the quality of his team, he'd have to personally have a good World Cup despite their failings, and he's done that. Expecting him to magically dominate teams whilst playing in isolation is far fetched.
Your performances have been awful though and completely dependant on messi doing something. Do you feel confident when you come up against the likes of Germany? I can see a good midfield overrunning yours and messi can't make the difference in every game.
I think if there is a player who CAN make the difference in every game, it's him.
He continues to break records..
FFS it's time fecking Higuain makes an appearance at the WC. 
He's been non-existent. And please don't ever play BOTH Palacio and Higuain together.
Does anyone know why Banega isn't playing? Is he even in the squad?
He's been non-existent. And please don't ever play BOTH Palacio and Higuain together.
Does anyone know why Banega isn't playing? Is he even in the squad?
Not in squad.FFS it's time fecking Higuain makes an appearance at the WC.
He's been non-existent. And please don't ever play BOTH Palacio and Higuain together.
Does anyone know why Banega isn't playing? Is he even in the squad?
I don't know who is worse : Higuian, Fred, Jo or Giroud? All f**** awful.FFS it's time fecking Higuain makes an appearance at the WC.
He's been non-existent. And please don't ever play BOTH Palacio and Higuain together.
Does anyone know why Banega isn't playing? Is he even in the squad?
Arrgh. Thought he was doing ok with his NT not even a year or so ago. I suppose his club form has really damaged him. Looking at their squad now, it's so weak.
They should probably drop Higuain and play Lavezzi up top.
Yeah, there's been some absolute dross at the WC, from fairly big name players.
Then guys like Enner Valencia, the Mexican forward keeping Chich out and Origi etc have done pretty well.
I thought the goal today was sort of reminisint of the one Maradona set up for Caninga against Brazil in 90. Mistake in midfield, little genius picks it up and beats two or three players and then slides through and inch perfect pass for Di Maria score.
It was inch perfect as well. Look how it was just right for a left footer. It would have been a rubbish pass for a right footer. Always the sign of a genius passer IMHO.
It was inch perfect as well. Look how it was just right for a left footer. It would have been a rubbish pass for a right footer. Always the sign of a genius passer IMHO.
That's a wonderful article, thanks for the share..
BTW, he covered more than 10KM yesterday. This probably happened after a very long time. Add 6 defensive tackles. He never looked this active in any match in recent memory.
If Messi had scored, the comments would be different, for sure. Such impossible standards.. even Maradona would fail to live up to them, someone posted goal stats of Maradona from a World Cup and Messi has almost matched him with a possible 3 games left to beat him.
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Actually it's more similar to the goal Rivaldo scored assisted by Ronaldinho against England in WC 2002. Messi's current acceleration isn't as good as before, but looks quite similar to Ronaldinho back then.
Messi is mostly about end product, Maradona wasn't, so it's entirely expected that he'll score more goals. He'll need to do more than that to have contributed the same level of performance as Maradona.
When people start to make the Maradona comparisons, it's not about goal return. It's really about completely dominating matches. And that's a near impossible expectation because Maradona's '86 World Cup stands up beyond pretty much anything else in the history of the game. Messi's World Cup is so far shaping up more like Baggio '94 than Maradona '86. Not that is anything but a significant achievement, however anyone thinking Messi and Maradona are having on par tournaments (and there's a couple of posters who do) clearly didn't see Mexico '86.
Baggio '94 is a damn good comparison. Pretty much spot on.
You're getting a bit defensive, it really isn't much of a criticism and it isn't unjustified to say Messi hasn't shown his peak form at this World Cup. I'm not sure why it's so hard for some people to accept, it's weird, it tends to be the Messi fans as well which is ironic as you think they would have the awareness to recognise he can play better than this.
I know football is a team game.. But firstly the best player and sides playmaker carries a significant part of the burden for making the team tick. Secondly I'm actually talking about Messi's performances, not Argentina's. Argentina don't have to thrash every team 4-0 for Messi to play the perfect football he's shown before. Di Maria having a poor tournament isn't responsible for Messi not being as explosive as he used to be or his decline in dribbling. At his best a few years ago he was by far the best dribbler I've ever watched, by an absolute distance, he would skip around players as if they weren't there due to that combination of ball control and agility. If you think this is the best Messi can do then fair enough, but I think you underestimate what he's capable off.
I agree with your general point, though I need to ask if you watched the Swiss game yesterday?
There are 3 separate instances which immediately comes to mind where Messi beat 3 players through dribbling - and those are only the ones I can recall. I'm not sure what the official stats were, but I think he created +-4 scoring chances for his teammates and grabbed the all important assist.
Outside of Messi, it never looked like anyone else was going to do anything. Higuain/Palacio etc were all invisible, and frankly, that defence was lucky not to have conceded 2 or 3 at least.
And I think that's what amol was referring to. Outside of what he has done - what more could any other player (always surrounded by 3-4 players) try to do to influence the game? I never watched WC '86, and hence I never comment on the Messi-Maradona (or even Pele) debates. But from what I gather, that '86 Argentinian squad was much better then this current one. Or at least the support cast was.
So once again, it's very difficult to compare players from different eras because there's just too many variables to consider.
I think you are overrating Maradona personally.
I can imagine in 20 years time the Messi myth growing too, it's how it goes.
If you can't see that Maradona dominated games for Argentina in a way Messi hasn't then you haven't watched any of Argentina's matches in '86, quite simply.
Who cares if he is not as good as Maradonna? He even said himself he doesnt care if he isnt as good
Like Lawro said bar Messi and Di Maria this Argentine side are very average
A bit like Maradona 90 and all.
How are they average? They have not performed well but on paper they had the best squad in world cup.
Best squad? With that defence and midfield? Zabaleta, Garay and Mascharano are their stand out players outside of their attack. The rest unless I'm missing someone are average.
No team has all eleven class players. But Argentina have the most good players in their team compared to any other in this world cup.
Not sure if you're serious. More than Germany? More than Spain?
Not quite. Maradona didn't score a single goal in that tournament but he did carry injury then. The most memorable moments were the assist against Brazil ( classic indeed) and the handball at their own net against USSR in the second group game ( basically what Suarez did against Ghana in WC 2010) which was not caught by the referree or Argentina would've been sent back home after two groups games. Their best player who saved their ass game after game was actually their keeper.
I'd say Messi's performance in this WC is much better than Maradona at 90 WC so far.
As per Baggio 94 WC, he didn't do much at all in group stage. Actually I remember Italy lost their first game and barely got out of the group. He did score clutch goals in the knockout though.
I don't care myself. I was just responding to someone who suggested the reason Maradona is seen as better is because of the mythology surrounding him. I personally think there is a fair amount of mythology about Maradona in '90, but anyone who denies his impact and influence in '86 clearly hasn't watched the tournament.
France, Germany and Spain all have better squads....Best squad
Not even in the top 3 best squads.
Their bench is also painfully thin considering the likes of Maxi is one of the first names they look to
What utter shite. Written by an American, I presume?
I think Belgium will be the first team to attempt to even play Argentina this tournament. Hopefully they get ripped apart, Di Maria and others need to step up to the plate though.
Actually Nigeria already did, that turned into a pretty fun game.
the fivethirtyeight analysis of Lionel messi past 4 years :
Lionel Messi Is Impossible
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lionel-messi-is-impossible/
Lionel Messi Is Impossible
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lionel-messi-is-impossible/
Exactly, Brazil as well imo.
Romero, Rojo, Fernandez and Gago all start ffs. Decent at best players. Whilst I'm not a big fan of Higuain or Mascherano and Garay is very overrated aswell.
Argentina has three top players, one very good full back who doesn't perform near as good as he does for City. Two-three good players who get overrated and the rest is meh.
and they saw what happens then
Argentina squad's is not the best in the world cup. that's a ridiculous statement. It's not even in the top 5 !! They have players that i don't even recognize !!
We always thought that the squad strength comes from its attack. Well, Higuain , Aguero and Lavezzi have all been wank. Di maria just shows moments of brilliance every now and then. It's all about Messi, and he can't win the world cup alone. No one ever did no matter how good 'cause football is a team sport.
They'll lost to Belgium unless some miracle happen. A strong Argentina would still struggle against Belgium imo 'cause of Curtois first and foremost, so imagine that Argentina !!
We always thought that the squad strength comes from its attack. Well, Higuain , Aguero and Lavezzi have all been wank. Di maria just shows moments of brilliance every now and then. It's all about Messi, and he can't win the world cup alone. No one ever did no matter how good 'cause football is a team sport.
They'll lost to Belgium unless some miracle happen. A strong Argentina would still struggle against Belgium imo 'cause of Curtois first and foremost, so imagine that Argentina !!