I hope they still are.
Anyway, I'm not saying he didn't play his part, but to equate that first one with the other 3 where he basically won the trophy for you lot is OTT.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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Anyway, I'm not saying he didn't play his part, but to equate that first one with the other 3 where he basically won the trophy for you lot is OTT.
Only if applied correctly, otherwise Adriano was no doubt more gifted than Shearer.
Messi is a significantly better playmaker and chance creator than Ronaldo, some of the passes Messi makes Ronaldo could never ever do, he simply doesn’t have the vision.
Ronaldo is a significantly better header and finisher than Messi, some of the headers Ronaldo scores Messi could never ever do, he simply does have the power.
Ronaldo can’t be a better finisher when it takes him more shots than Messi on average to score a goalRonaldo is a significantly better header and finisher than Messi, some of the headers Ronaldo scores Messi could never ever do, he simply does have the power.
Ronaldo is still a goal scoring beast though
Already answered that one further up this page.Ronaldo can’t be a better finisher when it takes him more shots than Messi on average to score a goal
Ronaldo is still a goal scoring beast though
Sorry, but not even close
Payton, Bryant, Malone, Fisher and O'neal vs Garnett, Sprewell, Hassell, Olowakandi and Hoiberg. If you're not basketball savvy that's like Joe Allen carrying Stoke to a UCL semifinal and giving Real Madrid a run for their money. No player I've seen has the mentality Garnett had.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/14172961/the-cruel-tutelage-kevin-garnett
"Coach, you don't understand," Garnett seethed. "If I'm sitting, they will see weakness."
Garnett, forbidden to take the floor by his own coach, had concocted his revenge: He would track the movements of power forward Leon Powe, the player who had replaced him in the lineup. As Powe pivoted, so did Garnett. As Powe leaped to grab a defensive rebound, Garnett launched himself to corral an imaginary ball. As Powe snapped an outlet pass, Garnett mimicked the motion, then sprinted up his slim sliver of sideline real estate as Powe filled the lane on the break. The players were mirror images: one on the court with a full complement of teammates, the other out of bounds, alone. Two men engaged in a bizarre basketball tango.
"KG," Rivers barked, "if you keep doing this, I'm canceling practice for the whole team. That will hurt us."
Garnett's reverence for coaches was legendary, but still he turned his back on Rivers. He returned to his defensive stance, an isotope of intensity, crouched, palms outstretched, in complete concert with Powe. He was, in fact, becoming so adept at this warped dalliance he'd invented, he actually began to anticipate Powe's movements, denying the entry pass to his invisible opponent before Powe thought of it.
Finally, an exasperated Rivers blew the whistle. "Go home," Rivers instructed his team. Then he glared at Garnett. "I hope you're happy."
Garnett was far from happy. He was, at best, resolute. He'd told his teammates countless times that there was no such thing as a day off
"KG," Rivers barked, "if you keep doing this, I'm canceling practice for the whole team. That will hurt us."
Garnett's reverence for coaches was legendary, but still he turned his back on Rivers. He returned to his defensive stance, an isotope of intensity, crouched, palms outstretched, in complete concert with Powe. He was, in fact, becoming so adept at this warped dalliance he'd invented, he actually began to anticipate Powe's movements, denying the entry pass to his invisible opponent before Powe thought of it.
Finally, an exasperated Rivers blew the whistle. "Go home," Rivers instructed his team. Then he glared at Garnett. "I hope you're happy."
Garnett was far from happy. He was, at best, resolute. He'd told his teammates countless times that there was no such thing as a day off
You guys need to hyperbolize everything surrounding him to make him look better than he is so he can have a bigger claim for the GOAT throne, no one would take seriously a guy saying "Messi is bigger for football than Gretzky was for Hockey". If you want to put a player above any other sportsman at least you could take a look at what other sports have to offer, you. Nadal is another example of absurd winning mentality that we'd probably never see in football, some of his comebacks are like coming back from a 2-0 by scoring a hat-trick with 3 Maradona's goal of the century.
Better finisher? The guy wastes a million chances his superstar team create for him every game.
You miss the spirit of this thread
The idea is to keep repeating the same thing by using relatively similar points and stats.
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I think you misquoted me? I think Messi is the better finisher, ronaldo shoots within ten yards of the goal whereas a messi is always man marked by multiple defenders
I changed, loved Ronaldo when he was here and disliked Messi with his squeaky clean image especially when he destroyed us in the CL. Still preferred to watch Ronaldo when he was first at Madrid and was exciting and scoring thunderbolts every other week but slowly started to watch more Messi and realised that he was simply a better player. Strange how back then Messi was the big game player, always dominating CL games while Ronaldo's powers waned in the bigger games (though he was always decent against Arsenal) but now it's Ronaldo who is more impactful in the KO stages of the CL and Messi is very hit and miss.
In hindsight, the impact in both cases was more from their team than both players themselves, when Ronaldo was trying to carry Real Madrid, their roster was worse, and they also got unlucky a couple of times, now they have a better squad and luck has been on their side to compensate.
And with Messi, he also had a great team with Xavi, Iniesta, Alves, Villa (always underrated), etc... the thing now is, everyone judges their impact in goals, Ronaldo is doing less on the pitch than 7 years ago but he's playing further up and scoring more, Messi is trying to do more for Barcelona by playing deeper, so he has less chances to score (that would be even fewer if he had to play as a false 9 with Rakitic and old man Iniesta feediing him, while displacing Suarez to the RW and playing too close to Neymar).
They've always been big game players (with the rare stinker, no one is perfect). If Real has a leg this UCL where his midfield and Marcelo disappear for two games Ronaldo is going to look at Messi-level vs Juve last season, midfield is too important in modern football, not even the two best players in the world can escape that.
Have to agree. Messi is and always has been a level above Ronaldo.
I think neither Messi nor Ronaldo are leaders to be honest. For the other points, well we will never agree, and I respect that. It’s not like this thread is meant for agreeing on stuff anyway
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Ronaldo has been crap this season, why will he win it again and Messi won't?
I read it at the time Peyroteo and I stand by what I said; which is that when it comes to this tedious 'greatest of all time' discussion, natural ability/what the player can do with the ball at his feet is an essential ingredient. Indeed perhaps it's thee essential ingredient because the player has to have it to qualify for the discussion.
Don't take from this however that I think Ronaldo isn't a great player or anything, of course he is. It's just that in this aspect he's distinctly underwhelming relative to others.
Ronaldo is the best header of a ball I've ever seen but heading the ball isn't as hard or as important a skill as playmaking and dribbling ability. There's no parallel there at all.Ronaldo is a significantly better header and finisher than Messi, some of the headers Ronaldo scores Messi could never ever do, he simply does have the power.
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What’s wrong with people mentioning with Messi have all natural ability in world one can ever have and as if Ronaldo is like just hard work with zero talen ( if that’s the case for you guys ,in fact it should give more credit to cr7 )
If you are talking about skills alone , Rooney was better at young age with more so called “natural ability” then why is he not even in discussion ?
It’s all garbage point , at the end of day what you do on pitch to win matches against quality opponents matter most
Messi has his fair share of harmone stories so that shouldn’t be consider natural then right or it’s natural ? And he must also be working his a$$ off otherwise he wouldn’t be anywhere close to how successful he is
If you are talking about skills alone , Rooney was better at young age with more so called “natural ability” then why is he not even in discussion ?
It’s all garbage point , at the end of day what you do on pitch to win matches against quality opponents matter most
Messi has his fair share of harmone stories so that shouldn’t be consider natural then right or it’s natural ? And he must also be working his a$$ off otherwise he wouldn’t be anywhere close to how successful he is
Yup. Even worse is when people try to use the fact Ronaldo is better at penalties as if it's at all significant
It's amazing that all these other players don't all become great at heading the ball, since it's so easy to do! And of course it does mean that you score goals and win games this way, not all that important apparently.
Another case where scoring goals and winning games is sooooooooooooo unimportant!
over the last 10 years when i've played football at a club / uni / school / socially , basically all the good players i play with or against favour messi and the poor players favour ronaldo. a quite noticeable trend.
says it all really. same thing goes for fifa too.
says it all really. same thing goes for fifa too.
Yes.
I used to prefer Ronaldo due to his connections with us and despise Messi (and all his team mates) due them shitting on us in the CL finals. So I would always try to figure out a way to justify Ronaldo as being Messi's equal or better. But when I actually started to watch Messi without the bias and hatred, I realised that he's easily the best footballer I've ever seen.
Messi is better IMHO but the way some of his fans go about criticizing Ronaldo makes you wanna switch at times.
It might sound overly semantic, but I think it's worth distinguishing between being a better player and having a better career. As an example, I always thought Frank Lampard was very limited technically for a supposed world class midfielder, but what he achieved in his career (goals, trophies, big game performances, etc.) puts him in that top bracket when discussing his legacy even if there are plenty of other midfielders who I would rather have in my team and who theoretically are better players.
In terms of Messi vs Ronaldo, there is no question for me that Messi is and has been the better player. Having said that, Ronaldo's impact on his team over the past 2 years or so has narrowed the gap on what they've achieved in their careers to the extent that I feel he is 1-2 CLs or a World Cup away from surpassing Messi in that sense.
In terms of Messi vs Ronaldo, there is no question for me that Messi is and has been the better player. Having said that, Ronaldo's impact on his team over the past 2 years or so has narrowed the gap on what they've achieved in their careers to the extent that I feel he is 1-2 CLs or a World Cup away from surpassing Messi in that sense.
All shots are not equal but goals are. Messi is scoring identical number of goals to Cristiano, some seasons more, some season less, overall almost in the same page, while taking less number of shots even when comparing their shots from inside the area.
@bold, how is that a minus for Messi, when he is a more intelligent shooter than Cristiano.
problem is with you, and almost everyone with whom I am discussing, that take these stats as a means of saying Messi is better goal scorer, which I am not even implying. My point is neither Cristiano, nor Messi are ahead of each other when it comes to goal scoring which is shooting the fecking ball in the net, and hoping it goes in. And when it goes in, doing their fanny celebrations.
better by how much 2-3 goals?? come on Cal, let's be serious.
If we take only La Liga and Champions League, it is 394 goals from 384 apps (1.03 goal per game) for Messi, and 395 goals from 378 apps for Cristiano(1.04 goal per game), 0.01 goal per match higher.
And if we take every competitions, Messi has goals scored(454 goals from 458 apps), while Cristiano(431 goal from 423 apps) has a better ratio, by like what 0.03??
If 0.01 and 0.03 makes him a better goal scorer than wow, I never knew it.
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Shots on goal are the closest thing to the actual goals scored. Hence they are very much relevant stats. Unless you shot, you don't score(apart from few scoring from the bum incidents).
you are trying to make it like Ronaldo plays with chumps, hence he does not get clear cut chances, as Messi. This is silly, the fact that Ronaldo gets to shoot from inside the penalty box so much more than almost anyone, is an indication of his Real Madrid side has not much issue in getting the ball inside the area, unlike how you are going on about how Cristiano has worse team than Messi, hence his goal scoring should be rate more.
expected goals to actual goals?? I have last years stats for La Liga(below), but that would be unfair for cristiano, as he was not really at his best in last season in Liga.
0.03 is a measure that Cristiano is a greater goal scorer?? Sorry but that is funny.
Why are we taking just knockouts, because it favours Cristiano in recent times??
because he is not. He is not better goal scorer than Messi. It is simple.
All in all, my point is not that Messi is better goal scorer, but that they are both equal and on the same page when it comes to goal scoring.
No, shots per goal is a completely irrelevant stat that says absolutely nothing about a player being a better goalscorer than another. The worst part is you know this too, because after arguing on and on about those stats in which Messi is leading you ended up with the conclusion that they're as good as eachother.
No, I absolutely didn't. If you make up what I said and make it stupid, it becomes a lot easier to argue against.
One more shot per game is shooting a lot more?
He gets to shoot more becuse he shoots from pretty much anywhere or in any situation.Well those aren't the numbers for the full season or even close to it but yes, expected goals vs their actual goals would give us a better idea of who the better finisher was. It's far from a perfect science and there's a lot more to goalscoring than just finishing but yes, it would at least be somewhat relevant.expected goals to actual goals?? I have last years stats for La Liga(below), but that would be unfair for cristiano, as he was not really at his best in last season in Liga.
Did you even read what I wrote after that? I literally said it didn't...
Because there's a big difference in their goalscoring in the decisive part of the biggest club competition in the world? So that's irrelevant but the number of shots they take is relevant?
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I started the whole fecking debate because I was trying to say Messi and Cristiano are as good as each other in terms of goal scoring. I never said Messi is better when it comes to mere goal scoring because I know, that will be ignoring things like Messi is a more intelligent/team oriented player than Cristiano is. Even when i was posting stats, which showed Messi being a more efficient shooter, I always said they are on same plane when it comes to goal scoring.
I know you are not the one saying Cristiano is the greatest goal scorer of all time, but the fact you are trying to defend it is why this debate going on and on.
But you are implying in almost every thread that Cristiano goals should be rated higher because his team is worse than Messi's.
But ignoring two important reasons:
(i) Real madrid being worse than barcelona, does not make them worse than other teams, against whom Cristiano has scored bulk. There are teams which perform better or hard to beat by barcelona, while Real cruises past them. It is not as simple as you try to make it.
(ii) One of the main, or perhaps the most important reason on why Barcelona have been better than Real in head to head, is because they have Messi.
much more was a wrong wording, but what I meant to say was that the fact Cristiano has so much shots from inside the box, it obviously means his team does enough to get the ball in the box.One more shot per game is shooting a lot more?
Okay since shots per goal is irrelevant as per you mainly because they make Cristiano seem inferior, let us look at their respective expected goal vs actual goals since 2014/15 in La Liga. Just for sample testing.
Source: Cristiano and Messi.
And there is not much difference between them here also.
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╔═══════════╦═════════╦══════╦══════════════════╦════════════╦════════════╦════════════╦═════════════╦════════════╗
║ Player ║ Season ║ Apps ║ expected ║ Goals ║ Shots ║ Assists ║ expected ║ key passes ║
║ ║ ║ ║ goals per 90 ║ per 90 ║ per 90 ║ per 90 ║ assists ║ per 90 ║
║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ per 90 ║ ║
╠═══════════╬═════════╬══════╬══════════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬═════════════╬════════════╣
║ Messi ║ 2014/15 ║ 38 ║ 0.96 ║ 1.15 ║ 4.39 ║ 0.48 ║ 0.47 ║ 2.53 ║
╠═══════════╬═════════╬══════╬══════════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬═════════════╬════════════╣
║ Messi ║ 2015/16 ║ 33 ║ 0.89 ║ 0.86 ║ 5.22 ║ 0.53 ║ 0.52 ║ 2.54 ║
╠═══════════╬═════════╬══════╬══════════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬═════════════╬════════════╣
║ Messi ║ 2016/17 ║ 34 ║ 0.86 ║ 1.18 ║ 5.69 ║ 0.29 ║ 0.44 ║ 2.51 ║
╠═══════════╬═════════╬══════╬══════════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬═════════════╬════════════╣
║ Messi ║ 2017/18 ║ 24 ║ 0.89 ║ 0.86 ║ 5.78 ║ 0.47 ║ 0.5 ║ 2.74 ║
╠═══════════╬═════════╬══════╬══════════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬═════════════╬════════════╣
║ Player ║ Season ║ Apps ║ expected ║ Goals ║ Shots ║ Assists ║ expected ║ key ║
║ ║ ║ ║ goals per 90 ║ per 90 ║ per 90 ║ ║ assists ║ passes ║
║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ ║ per 90 ║ per 90 ║ per 90 ║
╠═══════════╬═════════╬══════╬══════════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬═════════════╬════════════╣
║ Cristiano ║ 2014/15 ║ 35 ║ 1.14 ║ 1.39 ║ 6.53 ║ 0.46 ║ 0.39 ║ 2.2 ║
╠═══════════╬═════════╬══════╬══════════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬═════════════╬════════════╣
║ Cristiano ║ 2015/16 ║ 36 ║ 1.01 ║ 0.99 ║ 6.41 ║ 0.31 ║ 0.24 ║ 1.44 ║
╠═══════════╬═════════╬══════╬══════════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬═════════════╬════════════╣
║ Cristiano ║ 2016/17 ║ 29 ║ 0.88 ║ 0.9 ║ 5.73 ║ 0.21 ║ 0.16 ║ 1.1 ║
╠═══════════╬═════════╬══════╬══════════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬════════════╬═════════════╬════════════╣
║ Cristiano ║ 2017/18 ║ 18 ║ 1.02 ║ 0.62 ║ 6.87 ║ 0.23 ║ 0.26 ║ 1.69 ║
╚═══════════╩═════════╩══════╩══════════════════╩════════════╩════════════╩════════════╩═════════════╩════════════╝sorry if I got it wrong.
yes Cristiano has been phenomenal in knockout stages, I give him that. His recent seasons he has absolutely smashed it(22KO goals in
2014/15, 2016/17 and 2015/16), while Messi in during the same period have only 8 goals in knockouts.
And I am not saying it is irrelevant, but just that they are highlighted much more because this is the few areas where Cristiano is more accomplished than Messi.
Final word: Since I am not arguing that Messi is not better than Cristiano when it comes to goal scoring, nor are you saying Cristiano is better, why the feck are we arguing.
@Lord SInister I think we're mostly in agreement actually, I just disagree that shots per goal is significant and I do think scoring for a worse team makes it more impressive even if they're both incredible teams. I do think Ronaldo's slightly the better goalscorer of the two because:
1) He's actually been scoring more, even if the difference is small.
2) He's been playing for a worse team
3) He scores more in the CL knockouts by a big difference, a lot more important goals at that stage is significant
Point 2 is definitely arguable since there's a lot more that goes into it, both teams have been scoring similar amounts of goals and they have different styles. Ronaldo's also had more penalties although I don't know if he wins more of them than Messi for example. The difference is small either way and we don't disagree by much. Let's just leave it at that since we're going in circles now
1) He's actually been scoring more, even if the difference is small.
2) He's been playing for a worse team
3) He scores more in the CL knockouts by a big difference, a lot more important goals at that stage is significant
Point 2 is definitely arguable since there's a lot more that goes into it, both teams have been scoring similar amounts of goals and they have different styles. Ronaldo's also had more penalties although I don't know if he wins more of them than Messi for example. The difference is small either way and we don't disagree by much. Let's just leave it at that since we're going in circles now
Because its based on who performs in the CL - which Ronaldo will do
Also Messi looks spent now - he had a great start to the season but is on a 5 match drought (which the media haven't really picked up on) and has seemed sluggish ever since el Classico - do you really think Messi will have a great CL knockouts/WC performance? I really like Messi but can't see either happening
Taking less number of shots does no make him the better scorer, he's just as likely to lose the ball dribbling into defenders as Cristiano is by shooting from acute angles.
I think we can all agree the Champions League is more important than La Liga, and Ronaldo's record is significantly ahead.
The Balon D'or is based on the calendar year, Ronaldo has been anything but crap since new years day.
Messi GOAT, Ronaldo great scorer can't believe we're still debating this. Ridiculous
No one talked about this until past year, and for a guy who's always pointing out that Ronaldo's younger years as a winger skews their whole career stats comparison, you're being especially hypocritical here, since you're now comparing stats of players 28 months apart.@Lord SInister I think we're mostly in agreement actually, I just disagree that shots per goal is significant and I do think scoring for a worse team makes it more impressive even if they're both incredible teams. I do think Ronaldo's slightly the better goalscorer of the two because:
1) He's actually been scoring more, even if the difference is small.
2) He's been playing for a worse team
3) He scores more in the CL knockouts by a big difference, a lot more important goals at that stage is significant
Point 2 is definitely arguable since there's a lot more that goes into it, both teams have been scoring similar amounts of goals and they have different styles. Ronaldo's also had more penalties although I don't know if he wins more of them than Messi for example. The difference is small either way and we don't disagree by much. Let's just leave it at that since we're going in circles now
Ronaldo at the same age as Messi had 17 fewer goals in KO rounds than him, that puts him just 2 goals above Messi, you can't use the fact that he was playing in a worse team for the whole of his career to defend his league record and then use the UCL KO goals to fit your narrative better, when he's played in probably the best team in the history of the modern UCL with 3 titles and a semis in 4 years. In two seasons (and one game now) he has scored 30% of his KO round goals after a 10 year career playing those games.
You're using this Real Madrid UCL run (almost an statistical abnormality) to declare he's the best at something in a skewed form, you could wait to see how many goals Leo scores in the next two seasons if you wanted to be fair to him, like you ask people to do with Ronaldo whole career numbers, or you could use the goal per game ratio.
Ronaldo 0.81 current (0.73 at 30)
Messi 0.63
But, of course, doesn't sound as good as showing raw amount of goals to make us buy the idea that he's almost two times the goalscorer Leo is in the knockout rounds but not talk about games played. 0.10 at the same stage in their career is your "big difference".
And rest assured, his knockout records are there to stay, I'm not using this post to say Messi will match him in this area in the next 2 seasons, first because even at 30 y/o, Ronaldo was already a little better than him at this stat, and second because while Ronaldo has stepped forward in his team formation to help his team finishing more but building up less, Messi is showing that he'll do the opposite, play deeper in his team and further away from the goal. Equalling the career global KO goals would be a hard feat to do for Messi even in his 2008/2014 form, but it's totally out of the picture for his current version, also hard to believe he'd win 2 more UCL titles to play 15 games in the next 2 seasons.
So, they were basically equal as goalscorers in the UCL in their best years, in the future Messi could close the gap to 33 y/o Ronaldo numbers but probably won't get close to them unless he outlasts his career, but you could be fair and honest with yourself, if you're going to maintain your position on their global career saying that Messi is only a better career goalscorer because Cris played deeper in his first seasons and had worse teams, you could stop with the hyperbole and say that it's only logical that Ronaldo could end up outscoring Leo in the next years, as Messi starts doing the same thing Ronaldo did earlier, instead of bashing him with double-edged stats.
He hasn't been Ballon d'Or worthy though.
They definitely take the entire season into account rather than just the calendar year. If it was purely a calendar year thing this years would've been a lot closer between Ronaldo and Messi given how different their form was in the second half of 2017.
Goes off the calendar year, not the season doesn’t it? So basically whichever wins the CL/does best in the world cup.
I didn't mean he scored more in total, he scores more per 90 minutes.
Messi had a clearly better team around him from 2009 to 2012 and he didn't win it 3 times. Madrid haven't been the better Champions League team of modern football at all, they've been the team that's won more.
So in the past 3 years he's scored 30%... considering he's been playing in the knockouts for 11 years, what's so weird about that? And why completely disregard his best goalscoring season? Should we start taking out Messi's 2012 year since he never got close to repeating that? The fact it's an anomaly shouldn't mean it should be disregarded, taking out Ronaldo’s goals from the past 2 years doesn’t make any sense.
Like I said, when I said Ronaldo was scoring more I was refering to these goal per game numbers, not their total goal numbers.
It's a 0.18 difference that's getting bigger and bigger. It's a huge difference, especially when you look at it season by season in context. Take out their useless goals in the crap knockouts against APOEL or Leverkusen, take out the games where they’ve played about 10 minutes and see just how many more big goals Ronaldo has scored than Messi in the knockouts. Also worth noting that Messi actually scores more in the round of 16 so the difference just gets bigger the further into the competition you go.
This is not what I said. This goes to any player in the world, having a better career goals per game stat is not indicative of a player scoring more than the other throughout their careers. Regardless of their positions and how good they were at the start of their careers, the difference in the number of games at the start of their career (Ronaldo played A LOT more games for both club and country) and the fact during their primes Messi has played more games completely inflates the stats.
That's why if you check their goal stats season by season, they're pretty much equal or there's a slight advantage to Ronaldo but if you check their overall career stats Messi has a huge advantage.
No just the calendar year, well basically from February to May as that’s when the important football is played. (Obviously different with the World Cup this year).
Ronaldo has 10 goals so far in 2018 (roughly 50 days into the year), including 2 against PSG, who are supposed to be one of the best teams around, how is that not Ballon D'or worthy if he keeps it up?
Impressing in the key games each year obviously play a much bigger part than the other games, Ronaldo stepped up in the key months of 2017 whilst Messi disappeared, the rest of the year doesn't make up for his lackluster Mar-May.
It's the journalists' vote and it's a World Cup year, the Ballon D'Or will be 50% decided by the games they play at the World Cup. Another 30% for the Champions League and the other 20 for the league and other competitions. Something along those lines, which is definitely the right way to do it.
Messi isn't as good as he was in 2010 and Ronaldo isn't as good as he was in 2014, they're not good enough to win it while doing next to nothing at the World Cup. I'd put Neymar as favourite ahead of both of them given he usually shines when playing for Brazil but it's the most open year since Kaka won it. De Bruyne, Salah, Kane, Modric, De Gea, etc. all have a shot at it if they have great performances at the right time.
Messi isn't as good as he was in 2010 and Ronaldo isn't as good as he was in 2014, they're not good enough to win it while doing next to nothing at the World Cup. I'd put Neymar as favourite ahead of both of them given he usually shines when playing for Brazil but it's the most open year since Kaka won it. De Bruyne, Salah, Kane, Modric, De Gea, etc. all have a shot at it if they have great performances at the right time.
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Not sure I agree with that, Ronaldo or Messi will win it barring some kind of catastrophe.
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