Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[breakout67]

What I find very strange about the downplaying of Messi's teammates, is that it completely contradicts the image that Messi has with some people. Messi is supposed to be less reliant on his teammates than Ronaldo, yet Messi is the one that gets more excuses about his teammates.

I think there is definitely a question mark over why Messi is a much worse player for his national team. Messi's penalty miss in the Copa America was really bad, perhaps the pressure of the occasion got to him. Messi is not a man for the spotlight, whereas Ronaldo is very much that man, which could go on to explain why Ronaldo is such an animal in the CL.

Bear in mind that I prefer Messi over Ronaldo, but those making it out to be a closed shut case for Messi are off the mark in my opinion.

 

[RedRonaldo]

At United, probably. But according to WhoScored, Ronaldo had 2.6 dribbles per game in his first season at Real Madrid and in his second already went down to 2.0. Since then, his best result were 2.2 dribbles per game in 2014/15. This is hardly among the best dribblers in the world. Messis didn't drop below 3.5 at all and has only three seasons below 4. This season, he has 5.2 dribbles per game.

It is not as if Ronaldo had adapted his playing style due to his age. He simply decided he wanted to score more goals and stopped dribbling if not necessary. And this development already started in his first year at Real.

He has 3.1 dribbles per game in 2009/10 in La Liga, 2.2 in 2010/11 and 2013/14. At CL though he has better numbers in average there, 2.9 in 11/12, 2.7 in 10/11, even this season he still has 2.1 in CL.

It is clear he is not at Messi level, but 3.1 in 09/10 is about top 10 dribblers in the world. I am sure his numbers are higher during his 6 years in United. So I assume there's at least 4-5 seasons he is among one of the best dribblers in the world (say top 3 or 5).

 

[Acheron]

think there is definitely a question mark over why Messi is a much worse player for his national team. Messi's penalty miss in the Copa America was really bad, perhaps the pressure of the occasion got to him. Messi is not a man for the spotlight, whereas Ronaldo is very much that man, which could go on to explain why Ronaldo is such an animal in the CL.

Ronaldo is better at penalties, simple as that. His conversion rate is better and while it can be something psychological, like you suggest, with Ronaldo having a personality more suited to perform under pressure they've both have misses some crucial penalties for their teams.

 

[Pocho]

What I find very strange about the downplaying of Messi's teammates, is that it completely contradicts the image that Messi has with some people. Messi is supposed to be less reliant on his teammates than Ronaldo, yet Messi is the one that gets more excuses about his teammates.

I think there is definitely a question mark over why Messi is a much worse player for his national team. Messi's penalty miss in the Copa America was really bad, perhaps the pressure of the occasion got to him. Messi is not a man for the spotlight, whereas Ronaldo is very much that man, which could go on to explain why Ronaldo is such an animal in the CL.

Bear in mind that I prefer Messi over Ronaldo, but those making it out to be a closed shut case for Messi are off the mark in my opinion.

Not sure if serious

 

[Daysleeper]

The same Higuain who scored the only goal of the game against Belgium? Ok...

It was a mishit


Here is Higuain for Argentina:

The worst thread in the history of the internet deserves it.

This made me laugh way harder than it should

 

[RedRonaldo]

4 ecl to 3? what the hell, did 2006 not happen? If that's the case then we remove Ronaldo's euro since he didn't play in the final.

And Messi can't thrive on adversity? Put Messi in the 2008 United team and he'd have United walking the league, I love how people make it sound like Ronaldo playing for two of the richest clubs in the world was overcoming adversity.

And Portugal won a Euro final without him, Argentina struggle to win a single game without Messi let alone an NT final. Messi's team is actually worse than Ronaldo, Ronaldo has the better manager and defense, and has players like Eder actually show up whereas Messi has Higuain bottling chance after chance.

I think what he mean is that Messi is only a bit part player for Barca in 2006, with only 1 goals and 1 assist in 6 games (miss the other 7 games, including quarterfinals, semi-finals and final). Whereas Ronaldo in Euro 16, like it or not he is captain of the team and who started every games for Portugal (only injured during the final game), with 3 goals and 3 assists in 6 games (7 if include final) overall.

 

[breakout67]

Ronaldo is better at penalties, simple as that. His conversion rate is better and while it can be something psychological, like you suggest, with Ronaldo having a personality more suited to perform under pressure they've both have misses some crucial penalties for their teams.

Well yes, Ronaldo is better at penalites. But the main reason why I think Ronaldo is close is because of the CL, in my opinion he moves up a level in the CL. Whereas Messi maintains his already superhuman level from the domestic to European stage.

Not sure if serious

Messi is far better for Barcelona than Argentina. He is still amazing for Argentina, but a look at their records shows a bigger drop for Messi compared to Ronaldo.

Both get around a goal per game for their club. Ronaldo drops to about a 2 in every 3 while Messi drops to 1 in every 2.

I thought it was obvious that Messi is not as good for his country as his club. He's still a freak playmaker but his trademark runs and runs behind the defence just aren't as good. It feels like he is playing within himself.

 

[bebeanderson]

How did Ronaldo do at the Euro Cup? I didn't watch any of the games. Did he really lead Portugal like people say here?

 

[Daysleeper]

I think what he mean is that Messi is only a bit part player for Barca in 2006, with only 1 goals and 1 assist in 6 games (miss the other 7 games, including quarterfinals, semi-finals and final). Whereas Ronaldo in Euro 16, like it or not he is captain of the team and who started every games for Portugal (only injured during the final game), with 3 goals and 3 assists in 6 games (7 if include final) overall.

And that's a fair point, but to take away an entire trophy from Messi s a bit much if only because Barca don't get past Chelsea that year without Messi. I do think Ronaldo did a lot more for Portugal's Euro in 2016 than Messi did for the Barca's CL in 2006.

 

[Daysleeper]

Well yes, Ronaldo is better at penalites. But the main reason why I think Ronaldo is close is because of the CL, in my opinion he moves up a level in the CL. Whereas Messi maintains his already superhuman level from the domestic to European stage.



Messi is far better for Barcelona than Argentina. He is still amazing for Argentina, but a look at their records shows a bigger drop for Messi compared to Ronaldo.

Both get around a goal per game for their club. Ronaldo drops to about a 2 in every 3 while Messi drops to 1 in every 2.

I thought it was obvious that Messi is not as good for his country as his club. He's still a freak playmaker but his trademark runs and runs behind the defence just aren't as good. It feels like he is playing within himself.

Messi is in a much tougher coeeficient than Ronaldo. Look at Ronaldo's stats against the better countries and it's nothing to write home about. Not that Messi is ripping up the top 5 countries in the world, but Messi is asked to do a hell of a lot more for Argentina and plays MUCH further away from goal than Ronaldo does.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Ronaldo can barely beat a man nowadays, he’s not a good dribbler.

Again another example of comparing Ronaldo at 30's with past greats at their very short peak. Why not compare Ronaldo at 20's with Maradona at 30's, Brazil Ronaldo at 30's, Ronaldinho at 30's etc? Most of these past greats were not very good at dribbling once they entered 30's and keep getting fat and out of form etc

 

[Cait Sith]

No response? @Cait Sith

I'm not very active as you can see from my post count since 2014, I will look at it later though.

 

[RedRonaldo]

And that's a fair point, but to take away an entire trophy from Messi s a bit much if only because Barca don't get past Chelsea that year without Messi. I do think Ronaldo did a lot more for Portugal's Euro in 2016 than Messi did for the Barca's CL in 2006.

I wouldn't take away CL in 2006 from Messi, in the same way people wouldn't take away 62' WC from Pele (even though he only played 2 games and was injured for the rest of tournament)

 

[MoskvaRed]

4 ecl to 3? what the hell, did 2006 not happen? If that's the case then we remove Ronaldo's euro since he didn't play in the final.

And Messi can't thrive on adversity? Put Messi in the 2008 United team and he'd have United walking the league, I love how people make it sound like Ronaldo playing for two of the richest clubs in the world was overcoming adversity.

And Portugal won a Euro final without him, Argentina struggle to win a single game without Messi let alone an NT final. Messi's team is actually worse than Ronaldo, Ronaldo has the better manager and defense, and has players like Eder actually show up whereas Messi has Higuain bottling chance after chance.

If we are talking peer to peer comparison, then it is unusual to include a competition where a player did not appear in the final rounds but, whatever, let’s call it 4-4...

Messi probably would have dominated the premier league - he’s a brilliant player. All I am saying is that I hugely admire Ronaldo for adapting from Portugal to Manchester (not easy, speaking as someone from Manchester) and thriving despite becoming a national hate figure after a Portugal vs England game (where Rooney was sent off for tap dancing on someone’s testacles). The only time we see Messi outside the nurturing environment where he has spent most of his life is for Argentina and he has never entirely convinced for his national team. I think Ronaldo is the stronger personality even if Messi is the slightly more gifted player. If Argentina win the WC this summer, then feel free to quote this post..

 

[RooneyLegend]

How did Ronaldo do at the Euro Cup? I didn't watch any of the games. Did he really lead Portugal like people say here?

Nope, far from it, wasn't even the best player at the tournament. He didn't even play the final yet he lead them so much that they managed to win it without him. Messi hasn't really done that either, they are nothing to shout about on the international stage, if they were people would be claiming that Portugal and Argentina are close to favourites for the world cup which isn't the case.

 

[Juander]

And Portugal won a Euro final without him, Argentina struggle to win a single game without Messi let alone an NT final. Messi's team is actually worse than Ronaldo, Ronaldo has the better manager and defense, and has players like Eder actually show up whereas Messi has Higuain bottling chance after chance.

Was Higuain holding Messi’s hand when he missed the same chance in the World Cup Final that he’d score with his eyes closed for Barcelona or when he blazed his penalty in the CA Final?

 

[Daysleeper]

If we are talking peer to peer comparison, then it is unusual to include a competition where a player did not appear in the final rounds but, whatever, let’s call it 4-4...

Messi probably would have dominated the premier league - he’s a brilliant player. All I am saying is that I hugely admire Ronaldo for adapting from Portugal to Manchester (not easy, speaking as someone from Manchester) and thriving despite becoming a national hate figure after a Portugal vs England game (where Rooney was sent off for tap dancing on someone’s testacles). The only time we see Messi outside the nurturing environment where he has spent most of his life is for Argentina and he has never entirely convinced for his national team. I think Ronaldo is the stronger personality even if Messi is the slightly more gifted player. If Argentina win the WC this summer, then feel free to quote this post..

I see where you're coming from, but you yourself say Messi wasn't in the final rounds, but Ronaldo missed 80% of the final and his team still didn't need him. I don't see that ever happening with Argentina without Messi.

I do see where you're coming from however!

 

[shamans]

How did Ronaldo do at the Euro Cup? I didn't watch any of the games. Did he really lead Portugal like people say here?

Vs Hungary and in the knock out games he led them through. Him, Pepe and Nani were the best players.

 

[shamans]

Nope, far from it, wasn't even the best player at the tournament. He didn't even play the final yet he lead them so much that they managed to win it without him. Messi hasn't really done that either, they are nothing to shout about on the international stage, if they were people would be claiming that Portugal and Argentina are close to favourites for the world cup which isn't the case.

That's BS and you know it. without Ronaldo they wouldn't have made it to the finals.

 

[Peyroteo]

I see where you're coming from, but you yourself say Messi wasn't in the final rounds, but Ronaldo missed 80% of the final and his team still didn't need him. I don't see that ever happening with Argentina without Messi.

I do see where you're coming from however!

Argentina without Messi beat Chile in the Copa America and then lost with him in the final. Don't take conclusions out of individual games

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

who would be father and who mother
?

Just make a clone with two fathers. Like Superboy in "Young Justice'

 

[Zehner]

Again another example of comparing Ronaldo at 30's with past greats at their very short peak. Why not compare Ronaldo at 20's with Maradona at 30's, Brazil Ronaldo at 30's, Ronaldinho at 30's etc? Most of these past greats were not very good at dribbling once they entered 30's and keep getting fat and out of form etc

Well, this Ronaldo won three of his four Ballon D'Ors as a player who was nothing special in terms of dribbling and this against Messi. I think there was only a very brief intersection of the dribbling/creating and the scoring Cristiano, probably 2 or 3 seasons, four at max. Its no wonder that people bring it up so much because for the majority of his time as a Ballon D'Or contender, Cristiano didn't really contribute much in terms of chance creation and was nothing like the Cristiano of United times. If he had kept this playing style, he would definitely been Top 5 for me. Scored like crazy and ripped defenses apart on his own.

And I don't think it is down to age really. It is more of an active decision he took. Look at Robben and Ribery who are even older, more injury prone and still dribble much more. Messi at 30 lost a little bit of speed but his movements and feints still look like they did when he was younger. I think it has to do with Ronaldo's physique. His bulking up cost him a lot of agility. He still has the ball control but he seems slower and it takes him much longer to change direction. Of course it helps them in the box against strong CBs but he traded this for his explosiveness. Wrong choice if you ask me.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

This is just rediculous. Now Ronaldo is just as good an alloround footballer as Messi. Messi is just a specialist in 3 things

I'm sorry, but I'm only responsible for what I say, Not what ridiculous ideas your brain makes of it.

My point was simply, CR7 can score from a larger variety of ways than Messi, which is why ha can hurt you in more says. Its not remotely debatable. The statistics have already even been posted in this thread proving it. How you have jumped from that to equating it to CR7 being a better all round footballer than Messi only you alone know.

Furthermore, a Messi being able to hurt you from a smaller variety of ways than a CR7 has no bearing on who is the better all round football player. Its truly ridiculous you can't grasp something that simple.

Lastly, you'd have to be plain stupid to believe CR7 is a glorified Klose, who is shit at dribbling and is just a tap in and penalty merchant. When the fact is they are few attacking players on the planet anywhere near as multifaceted as he is. With Messi as the only one who is a better player in the current era.

Like he isnt one of the best freekick takers, he doesn't have supposedly range like Ronaldo. ronaldo when chooses is a close to elite dribbler, when he chooses to? That just sounds so rediculous. And you try to act like you are busting myths on here. Hilarious.

Actually the only 'rediculous' thing here is these ludicrous straw men you are so gleefully attacking thinking your are scoring points.

 

[Pocho]

I'm sorry, but I'm only responsible for what I say, Not what ridiculous ideas your brain makes of it.

My point was simply, CR7 can score from a larger variety of ways than Messi, which is why ha can hurt you in more says. Its not remotely debatable. The statistics have already even been posted in this thread proving it. How you have jumped from that to equating it to CR7 being a better all round footballer than Messi only you alone know.

Furthermore, a Messi being able to hurt you from a smaller variety of ways than a CR7 has no bearing on who is the better all round football player. Its truly ridiculous you can't grasp something that simple.

Lastly, you'd have to be plain stupid to believe CR7 is a glorified Klose, who is shit at dribbling and is just a tap in and penalty merchant. When the fact is they are few attacking players on the planet anywhere near as multifaceted as he is. With Messi as the only one who is a better player in the current era.


Actually the only 'rediculous' thing here is these ludicrous straw men you are so gleefully attacking thinking your are scoring points.

No dabatable? IMHO Messi is a better all around player and Ronaldo is a glorified Klose, Gerd Mulleresque

 

[Schneckerl]

Vs Hungary and in the knock out games he led them through. Him, Pepe and Nani were the best players.

CR was absolutely terrible against Croatia and Poland.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Never mind Ronaldo v Messi, just look at Real Madrid v Barcelona.

Real has 33 La Liga titles in their history, 9 more than Barca,
Yet only 19 Copa del Rey, 10 fewer than Barca.

Care to explain?

As for goals and assists, I agree they matter, but they're not equal to each other, therefore adding up together is stupid.

Ahh so because Real have won more league titles and less CDR then that means we have to not include cup games, silly me.

You did so to fit your argument.

I also wasn’t combining goals and assists, i was including both in the argument.

Messi has more goals since Ron moved to La Liga, he also has more assists. More successful passes, more successful key passes, more successful dribbles,better shots per goal ratio.

He has 1 less CL in that time. 5 league titles to Ronaldo’s 2.

 

[ryadmahrez]

I'm sorry, but I'm only responsible for what I say, Not what ridiculous ideas your brain makes of it.

My point was simply, CR7 can score from a larger variety of ways than Messi, which is why ha can hurt you in more says. Its not remotely debatable. The statistics have already even been posted in this thread proving it. How you have jumped from that to equating it to CR7 being a better all round footballer than Messi only you alone know.

Furthermore, a Messi being able to hurt you from a smaller variety of ways than a CR7 has no bearing on who is the better all round football player. Its truly ridiculous you can't grasp something that simple.

Lastly, you'd have to be plain stupid to believe CR7 is a glorified Klose, who is shit at dribbling and is just a tap in and penalty merchant. When the fact is they are few attacking players on the planet anywhere near as multifaceted as he is. With Messi as the only one who is a better player in the current era.


Actually the only 'rediculous' thing here is these ludicrous straw men you are so gleefully attacking thinking your are scoring points.

Stop the BS. You replied to someone calling Ronaldo just an elite goalscorer and Messi someone who can hurt you in many more ways, as is in Messi is more than just an elite goalscorer, an elite playmaker, an elite creator. Do i need to spell it out more for you? The guy wasn't talking about who can score in more ways. You arrogantly called that a myth. Hilarious.

And where did I mention that you said Ronaldo is a better allround footballer than Messi? Where did you get that from? I think your brain is making stuff up again.

Furthermore you didn't make a good argument for your point. You arguments were that Ronaldo is an elite dribbler (when he chooses to! lmao), with great vision, great in the air and with range (eventhough Messi scores more goals from outside of the 16). So are these your arguments as to why Ronaldo can score from a wider of range? Or for why he can hurt teams in more ways? Or were you talking about something else...

And Ronaldo isnt a shit dribbler, but you have to be blind and deluded to think he is an elite dribbler or something close to it.

 

[shamans]

And Ronaldo isnt a shit dribbler, but you have to be blind and deluded to think he is an elite dribbler or something close to it.

Ronaldo is definitely an elite dribbler. At his peak he was as good as Neymar dribbling past opponents but even now he is an elite dribbler. Obviously can't compare to Messi but you can't say he is not that special at all with it.

 

[Culero]

Ronaldo is definitely an elite dribbler. At his peak he was as good as Neymar dribbling past opponents but even now he is an elite dribbler. Obviously can't compare to Messi but you can't say he is not that special at all with it.

The current Ronaldo is still an elite dribbler? Not sure if serious because that's his biggest decline.

 

[shamans]

The current Ronaldo is still an elite dribbler? Not sure if serious because that's his biggest decline.

He is still elite and can beat a player. There are plenty better dribblers than him but I would say he is a better dribbler than Lukaku or Kane who are pretty decent themselves.

 

[Culero]

He is still elite and can beat a player. There are plenty better dribblers than him but I would say he is a better dribbler than Lukaku or Kane who are pretty decent themselves.

I'm sorry Ronaldo is not an elite dribbler anymore, I suppose we differ on the threshold of elite but saying such and such is better than Lukaku isn't a strong criteria IMO.

 

[Peyroteo]

for the majority of his time as a Ballon D'Or contender, Cristiano didn't really contribute much in terms of chance creation

How can a player who doesn't contribute much in terms of chance creation create more chances and have more assists than anyone else on the team? I'd really like that explained.

The amount of people in this thread who think being a forward player is defined on 3 attributes: scoring, passing and dribbling is actually incredible.

 

[Cal?]

Ahh so because Real have won more league titles and less CDR then that means we have to not include cup games, silly me.

You did so to fit your argument.

I also wasn’t combining goals and assists, i was including both in the argument.

Messi has more goals since Ron moved to La Liga, he also has more assists. More successful passes, more successful key passes, more successful dribbles,better shots per goal ratio.

He has 1 less CL in that time. 5 league titles to Ronaldo’s 2.

It's clear that Real Madrid as a club give very little attention to CDR, unless you think they magically get worse in the cup?

The league and the CL are the 2 competitions both play in and both care about, how unfair to compare them in the 2 biggest competitions.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Well, this Ronaldo won three of his four Ballon D'Ors as a player who was nothing special in terms of dribbling and this against Messi. I think there was only a very brief intersection of the dribbling/creating and the scoring Cristiano, probably 2 or 3 seasons, four at max. Its no wonder that people bring it up so much because for the majority of his time as a Ballon D'Or contender, Cristiano didn't really contribute much in terms of chance creation and was nothing like the Cristiano of United times. If he had kept this playing style, he would definitely been Top 5 for me. Scored like crazy and ripped defenses apart on his own.

And I don't think it is down to age really. It is more of an active decision he took. Look at Robben and Ribery who are even older, more injury prone and still dribble much more. Messi at 30 lost a little bit of speed but his movements and feints still look like they did when he was younger. I think it has to do with Ronaldo's physique. His bulking up cost him a lot of agility. He still has the ball control but he seems slower and it takes him much longer to change direction. Of course it helps them in the box against strong CBs but he traded this for his explosiveness. Wrong choice if you ask me.

Well fair enough, but the younger Ronaldo also won another 1-2 Ballon D’or and 2nd place in the other 3-4 of them. I mean, that’s about the same as peak achievements of other greats.

 

[El Che]

It's clear that Real Madrid as a club give very little attention to CDR, unless you think they magically get worse in the cup?

Such little attention they held a parade after a win in 2013 when Ramos dropped the trophy and the bus ran over it? Is it only important when Madrid win it?

 

[titandn]

Ronaldo is the better goal scorer.

 

[charlton66]

Such little attention they held a parade after a win in 2013 when Ramos dropped the trophy and the bus ran over it? Is it only important when Madrid win it?

I thought I read somewhere that they had so little regard for the trophy they actually backed the bus up and ran over it again.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Stop the BS. You replied to someone calling Ronaldo just an elite goalscorer and Messi someone who can hurt you in many more ways, as is in Messi is more than just an elite goalscorer, an elite playmaker, an elite creator. Do i need to spell it out more for you?

Do I HAVE to keep spelling it out to you ? What I actually say and what idiocy you make of it in your OWN mind is YOUR problem. I replied to a post implying CR7 is a glorified Klose because supposedly LM10 can "hurt you in more ways"

The guy wasn't talking about who can score in more ways. You arrogantly called that a myth. Hilarious.

Rather he was like you
Trying to convince everyone of the idiocy in your heads that CR7 is a glorified Klose. Trotting the usual lies that he can't hardly dribble and nor create to save his life. The standard practice of Messi fanbois over looking all his dribbling, assists and creative statistics over the years. I don't freaking need to make reference to Messi abilities to prove CR7 has very good vision or is an elite level dribble.

And where did I mention that you said Ronaldo is a better allround footballer than Messi? Where did you get that from? I think your brain is making stuff up again.

Clearly you are just a troll.

This is what You wrote:

Now Ronaldo is just as good an alloround footballer as Messi. Messi is just a specialist in 3 things

In response to my post. Literally accusing me of saying such. Yet now you deny it. You are clearly a moron on a WUM. I literally dont have the time for a bait and switch internet warrior. Im done replying to you on this....

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

No dabatable? IMHO Messi is a better all around player and Ronaldo is a glorified Klose, Gerd Mulleresque

So ? Its YOUR opinion. The reality CR7 is nothing like the Muellers is fact.

 

[prath92]

Did i read that Ronaldo didn’t do anything in Portugal’s euro win? 100% they don’t cross group stages without him.