I think this captures it quite nicely. In his pomp Messi was better to watch for me, but I think they're on a par in terms of being effective and if I had to stake my life on one or the other dragging my side to victory it'd be Ronnie (unless I was managing a club that had been built around Messi).
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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Not sure what the point is here? Yes, most of the top players leave abroad is what you seem to be saying, meaning that outside of PSG the league is indeed broadly drained of quality. Am I doing it right?
Just because there are high-quality players coming from France, it doesn't mean the quality of the teams overall is good. Portuguese league is a good example as well since produces high-quality players (like Ronaldo, Nani, Bruno Fernandes for us) and nobody will rate the Portuguese league as an incredibly competitive league overall and it would be a farmers league for players like Messi or Ronaldo atp.
Just because the quality overall isn't good, it doesn't mean there's 0 real talent over there. It just means the average quality is somewhat low and I don't think anyone can really contest that.
And tbf you kinda prove everyone's point by saying that the top talents leave the french league to play elsewhere, making a weak league even weaker in terms of quality.
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Ronaldo is a underrated player. He is one of the most versatile players ever in the game. It's moved around many leagues successfully, has an all round gameplay. That cannot be said among Messi.
I rate Ronaldo higher but that's not fair to Messi.
Messi adapted his game as he aged as well and his legacy shouldn't be punished because he showed loyalty to 1 club for most of his career.
I do think that Ronaldo is more versatile in terms of systems you can use him while Messi needs a specific system to fully maximize the value that he brings.
Ronaldo mastered the art of being both an orthodox and inverted wing player - arguably the greatest winger in history.
He then evolved and mastered the art of being a deadly marksman - arguably the greatest marksman in history.
Thrived in all sorts of systems and set-ups with all types of different players. He’s essentially had 3 careers in one. The swashbuckling touchline winger we saw in his formative years to the all-conquering and complete forward during his Madrid years (his absolute peak) to finally the lethal and relentless striker in his post-30 years.
He then evolved and mastered the art of being a deadly marksman - arguably the greatest marksman in history.
Thrived in all sorts of systems and set-ups with all types of different players. He’s essentially had 3 careers in one. The swashbuckling touchline winger we saw in his formative years to the all-conquering and complete forward during his Madrid years (his absolute peak) to finally the lethal and relentless striker in his post-30 years.
Congratulations on completely misunderstanding the point. The whole “farmers league” thing is to do with the overall quality of the league itself, nothing to do with the fact they’re of French nationality.
A farmer becoming a king is admirable. A king becoming a farmer is sad.
I think most people often overlook this fact, Ronaldo did revolutionize the inverted wing forward role on his own. Before him there's almost no such thing as goalscoring wing forward (least to say no one ever expected any wing forward to score more goals than striker or CF, and breaking 30-40 goals mark), after him it become the new trend of modern football, with the emergency of many new elites/top goalscoring wing forwards, such as Bale, Neymar, Salah, Mbappe or even Rashford and Greenwood etc following his footsteps, and becoming main goalscorer of their teams.
Fact check:
Ronaldinho (LW) scored 17 goals in 29 games in 05/06 (a goal every 130 minutes)
Ronaldinho (LW) scored 21 goals in 32 games in 06/07 (a goal every 130 minutes)
Messi (RW) scored 14 in 20 games in 06/07 (a goal every 142 minutes)
Cristiano (LW) scored 17 goals in 34 games in 06/07 (a goal every 163 minutes)
So your claim is at the very least highly debatable. The trend towards high scoring wingers had already started when Cristiano found his goal scoring boots. I'd say it started with Ronaldinho in 03/04 scoring 22 goals in 45 matches across all competitions but I'm probably missing someone, too. Cristiano surely took it to another level in 07/08 but he didn't start the trend.
Let's put it this way. Up until four, five years ago I would say 'Ronaldo is GOAT' half-jokingly, knowing that he's up there with the best of all time but deep inside i knew I was saying that just because he's one of us. It all changed after Real's three-peat where he performed with ruthless and relentless efficiency at the highest stage, a form which he brought along to Juve and now back to us albeit at a slightly lower level. Now I do honestly feel he is the greatest of all time, and if Portugal win the World Cup next year (which I think they have a decent chance of doing -- after all it's tournament football), there shouldn't be any question at all that he's the GOAT.
Croatia have the same record as Portugal in World Cups with just a bit more than 20 years of existence as National Team.
Portugal isn't winning a WC, 2006 was their best chance with Figo,Deco,Maniche, and Carvahlo.
They are lacking that quality now, what they have is unproved quality playing for Portugal, as Bruno,Jota,Diaz and Joao Felix haven't done shit yet wearing the portuguese shirt to claim that they perform as the ones i mentioned.
Portugal certainly aren't lacking quality.
Whether they can play together as a team is another thing.
Overall we have better individual quality now and better options than we had back then. Figo, Rui Costa, Carvalho, Deco, Pauleta, etc were all very good but the big difference is that they also played like a team and the current Portuguese NT doesn't. There's also a few cases that underperform under the Portuguese shirt like Bruno and Jota.
Ronaldo today 2/10 performance
yes he is finished, the new best player in the EPL is Kortney Hause
You're being catastrophic.
so are you.
Well its not exactly a trend setting with 14-21 goals scored per season though. Giggs has done something similar in 93/94 when he scored 17 goals, Kanchelski has 2 seasons scoring 15 and 16 goals back in 94-96 too, sure they all have the ability to score goals, but its not exactly trend setting when someone has scored around 15-20 from wings, don't get me wrong they are clearly very good, but least to say its not unheard of in the past. Sure Barca is probably the first of the lot who plays and succeed with 3 men attack. But wing forward is more of playmaking thing rather than goalscoring at that time. Their main goalscoring is still their no.9 - Eto'o, even during Ronaldinho era. Ronaldinho is more of a creator, who is also capable of scoring a handful number of goals, because he is also the best player in the world at that time.
But 30-40+ goals is something I'd regard as revolutionary - no one would think its possible from any winger/wing forward in modern era, before Ronaldo has scored 42 in 07-08. Once he has done it, its opens up floodgate of possibilities since. It really kick start a new trend in the way football is played, with wing forward system (also as main goalscorer of the team) really becomes part of main stream thing now.
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Couldn't get out of Hause's pocket all game
If only CR7 took and score the penalty, the word “clutch” will appear in doves here
So trueWhen he doesn't score, he barely contributes anything. Replace Ronaldo with a generic John Smith character and no one would seriously call him the best in the world. Would still take him over Messi today. Messi is the laziest player in the history of the game. With him in your team it's like playing with 10 men. Saw him strolling again in PSG's game like he was on the beach.
Croatia have a better record than Portugal because they have reached the World Cup final. Portugal have never managed that in their history. Croatia is also less than half the size of Portugal.
So true, Messi is so lazy that he did not even walk on the pitch today
I never understand this criteria when comparing Ronaldo and Messi. They both barely contribute to the defense.
It seems that some people here rate Ronaldo's defensive skills as if he was the new Makelele
If Ronaldo offers nothing when he doesn't score, then you're virtually playing with 10 men which looked like the case today.
Messi was the pichichi for almost five seasons in a row, he was involved in every single goal Barça scored, but it's like playing with ten Men. They are funny sometimes.
They are both pretty old now.
Insert Joker ‘not sure if serious’ gif
It's boring that Messi is injued now and hasn't got going yet. Even if it's the french league I want to see him work his magic.
I like Messi, but i think there is something very fishy here with his 'injury'.
Next week we have Conmebol WC Qualifiers games, and Argentina has the chance to secure their qualification in those 3 games(if they manage to win 2 and draw 1).
I don't believe his injury is so bad that he can't play at all, but he decided that Argentina is more important for him than PSG so he is saving his legs for qualifier games to secure his ticket to World Cup.
Nothing wrong with it, I'd do the same too.
Ok since this is comparison thread,
Season 21/22:
Ronaldo - 4 goals in 4 games, 7.4 avg rating, 2 motm (best league)
Messi - 0 goals in 3 games, 6.85 avg rating, 0 motm (6th league)
Nothing conclusive of course, just the beginning of long season, and simply recording of their progression on this season ahead. Sample size is still small at current point but I’ll let it kick start anyway, as both of them are starting their new chapter in “new” club “new” league, so it’s interesting to see how they progress, you know.
So don’t aim fire at me.
Season 21/22:
Ronaldo - 4 goals in 4 games, 7.4 avg rating, 2 motm (best league)
Messi - 0 goals in 3 games, 6.85 avg rating, 0 motm (6th league)
Nothing conclusive of course, just the beginning of long season, and simply recording of their progression on this season ahead. Sample size is still small at current point but I’ll let it kick start anyway, as both of them are starting their new chapter in “new” club “new” league, so it’s interesting to see how they progress, you know.
So don’t aim fire at me.
There is nothing fishy. You're being paranoid, he will play tonight vs Man City. He ain't prioritizing Argentina
the very fact that you are emphasizing on the best league or 6th best league, seems like a discreet motive, I know you will deny it, there is no agenda, but was the (best league) and (6th best league) really necessary. I mean when Messi was in Spain and Ronaldo in Italy, did you wrote (best league/second best) (third/fourth best league)
I would argue PL was already the best league in the world over past few years, while LL is declining, so it’s more like a case of 2nd vs 3rd best league during their time in Juventus vs Barca, which I don’t think it matters much.
But sure, there’s no agenda in my post, but I wouldn’t think it’s outrageous to suggest anyone posting here in this thread would have an hidden agenda in some ways, even when it’s very subtle, as deep down we all take sides, and this thread is simply the biggest known battlefield in redcafe, so you get the point. But if you ask me, then no, I am just trying to be objective here, and I just like to compare stats with actual context.
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Messi scoring against city >>> any team Ronaldo has scored against so far with United
but Messi still has a ways to go before he looks like Messi
but Messi still has a ways to go before he looks like Messi
I almost heard you frantically typing that.
So is this thread just going to get bumped every time one of them scores?
Give the ball to the GOAT. Always
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