Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

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NasirTimothy

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Your jab at Ronaldo about close range finishes is funny when he actually has more goals outside of the box than Messi in the CL and more FKs scored too. Messi isn’t even in the top 5 for all-time FK scorers in the competition while Ronaldo holds the record for the most.
Ronaldo has many more goals where he finishes off a move from close range than Messi, in a typical number 9 fashion. That was my point. Messi has many more goals where he starts the move from outside the box either off the dribble or by combining in the passing game with other players. Take a look at the goals they’ve scored in the competition and see for yourself, youtube is there.

No matter how you try to construe it, the overwhelming facts point to Ronaldo being the better CL player. MOTM awards is subjective and is probably the only thing you can throw in Messi’s favour. Even then, when you break it down you probably have Messi winning most of his MOTMs in lower pressure group games rather than the latter stages of the competition where Ronaldo comes alive.
Well break it down then. It’s not subjective. A 63-38 difference is not subjective. You may have a point if it was a 41-38 difference.

For example, in the 16/17 season Messi had 10 goals after the group stages and Ronaldo only 2. By the QFs Messi had 11 and Ronaldo was still on 2. I’m sure you can guess what happened next...
Ronaldo scored 10(!) goals between the QFs and final (including 2 hat-tricks in back to back games ) to finish topscorer in the competition despite facing juggernauts Bayern, Atletico and Juventus in the process. There’s objectively no bigger performer on the grandest stage in Europe’s premier competition than him.
Could easily do that in reverse for one of Messi’s better years.

Funnily enough, you chose one of the two years where Ronaldo had more MOTM awards than Messi. I thought it was subjective?
 
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RedRonaldo

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Did Gerd Muller had his grupies claiming that he was better than Cruyff or Pelé? Great goalscorer, as Ronaldo is, but not as good or complete as those two.
Ronaldo (peak version) is easily better footballer than Muller, and was far more comparable to Cruyff than to Muller in terms of pure performance. You may argue Ronaldo in his 30s is quite similar to Muller at his peak though, but let’s not forget the amazing footballer Ronaldo was in his 20s.
 

NasirTimothy

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For those who think that there’s never been two players as good as Messi and Ronaldo around at the same time, I present to you the great Eusebio and Pele. A year apart in age, both easily on the level of Leo and Cristiano but only met a handful of times on the pitch because they played at a time when footballers operated mostly in the countries they were born in.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/...-occasions-when-pele-and-eusebio-squared-off/
 

RedRonaldo

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For those who think that there’s never been two players as good as Messi and Ronaldo around at the same time, I present to you the great Eusebio and Pele. A year apart in age, both easily on the level of Leo and Cristiano but only met a handful of times on the pitch because they played at a time when footballers operated mostly in the countries they were born in.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/...-occasions-when-pele-and-eusebio-squared-off/
Err.. you are really quite into football greats in 60s. I mean, sure Pele, Best, Eusebio etc all great players with such great legacy, its indeed my top 3 favourite era in football... and then, Cruyff vs Beckbenbauer in 70's was great too, but I really do think Messi vs Ronaldo era in the modern time is the best.
 

NasirTimothy

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Err.. you are really quite into football greats in 60s. I mean, sure Pele, Best, Eusebio etc all great players with such great legacy, its indeed my top 3 favourite era in football... and then, Cruyff vs Beckbenbauer in 70's was great too, but I really do think Messi vs Ronaldo era in the modern time is the best.
Not just the 60s Red, but also the 70s, 80s and 90s :D
 

MrEleson

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Could easily do that in reverse for one of Messi’s better years.

Funnily enough, you chose one of the two years where Ronaldo had more MOTM awards than Messi. I thought it was subjective?
Not really. Messi has very few years he has outperformed Ronaldo in the CL.
And regarding the MOTM thing, it was just mere coincidence.

Also

 

NasirTimothy

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Not really. Messi has very few years he has outperformed Ronaldo in the CL.
And regarding the MOTM thing, it was just mere coincidence.

Also

Well actually he’s outperformed him every year bar two if you go by MOTM awards :D

Seeing as they’re the best indicator of all round performance. You can score goals in a game and still play like doo doo.

Re the tweet you posted, nice cherry picked and abbreviated stats by that propagandist. For example, let’s leave out the fact that Messi has scored 7 goals against Man City and put Leverkusen there instead to make Messi’s list look a bit worse. Let’s leave out the fact that Ronaldo has scored 9 goals against Ajax and 7 goals against Schalke and put in AM and Dortmund instead to make his list look a lil better. Nice work by that man.
 

Righteous Steps

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Yawn. Does he head as well?
He did score a memorable final goal with his head...

But this is what normally happens when it boils down to the discussion of who’s a better footballer people start bringing up up things like Heading or shooting with weaker foot, Ronaldo being better in the air than Messi doesn’t make him a better footballer.

Messi as I said scores as much despite being not being able to head or use his weaker foot as well thus deeming that whole point irrelevant, and secondly he passes on a much higher level than Ronaldo too.
 

Skorenzy

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Nothing to do with that. That’s just how Messi plays. He had the best midfield of all time behind him in 2 of his 3 CL triumphs between 09-11.
And I also disagree with your last point. Ronaldo has more than double the goals Messi has from the QF- final and also holds the record for most goals in a CL season, (and also the 2nd & 3rd most in a season) which has little to do with how many games he’s played. He’s also the only player to finish topscorer 6 seasons in a row (all occasions more than 10 goals while no one else in history has ever scored 10 goals or more more than 3 times).
I think you're mistaken on the bolded part:
Messi has scored 10+ goals in a single UCL season on 5 occasions.
(Cristiano 7 times in total)

However, Messi is only 1 top scorer title behind Cristiano (6 vs 7 respectively).

Also for context, prior to the 1991-92 edition the European Cup was straight knock-out, so no guaranteed 6 group games, and had less games anyway in a theoretical run to the final, making it a lot harder to get 10 goals.


Your jab at Ronaldo about close range finishes is funny when he actually has more goals outside of the box than Messi in the CL and more FKs scored too. Messi isn’t even in the top 5 for all-time FK scorers in the competition while Ronaldo holds the record for the most.
By my count, Messi has 15 goals from outside the box in open play + 5 from free-kick.
Cristiano has 8 from open play and 12 from free-kick.


Not really. Messi has very few years he has outperformed Ronaldo in the CL.
And regarding the MOTM thing, it was just mere coincidence.
Strongly disagree.
I would argue Messi outperformed Cristiano in UCL in 2005/06, 2008/09, 2009/10, 2010/11, 2014/15 and 2018/19.
Seasons where I would argue they were about the same (but if I had to choose) : 2011/12 (Messi), 2012/13 (Cristiano), 2019/20 (Messi) and 2020/21 (Messi).
And in my opinion Cristiano outperformed Messi in 2006/07, 2007/08, 2013/14, 2015/16, 2016/17 and 2017/18.
 
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spaceboyRSA

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But this is what normally happens when it boils down to the discussion of who’s a better footballer people start bringing up up things like Heading or shooting with weaker foot, Ronaldo being better in the air than Messi doesn’t make him a better footballer.

Messi as I said scores as much despite being not being able to head or use his weaker foot as well thus deeming that whole point irrelevant,
Except you are the one who said Messi does everything Ronaldo does but better?!

You also later went on about Messi being better at passing, dribbling and a whole bunch of attributes you value etc. But if someone lists what Ronaldo is better at, you say attributes don’t matter (bolded bit).

It’s ok to admit what your wrote is wrong or hypocritical. Messi fanboys struggle with it though.
 

Righteous Steps

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Except you are the one who said Messi does everything Ronaldo does but better?!

You also later went on about Messi being better at passing, dribbling and a whole bunch of attributes you value etc. But if someone lists what Ronaldo is better at, you say attributes don’t matter (bolded bit).

It’s ok to admit what your wrote is wrong or hypocritical. Messi fanboys struggle with it though.
Messi is better at playmaking while they’re both equal at scoring, whether Ronaldo is better in the air doesn’t matter to much as it doesn’t equate in him scoring a lot more goals, while Messi passing doesn’t equate in him creating far more chances than Ronaldo.. Simple to understand isn’t it?

Messi is an equal scorer and way way better playmaker hence him being a better footballer.
 

fck

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It feels like that 50% of this thread is people pulling out some random goal stats to prove that one player is better than the other. The problem with this is that football obviously doesn't work like that. Messi was relatively poor against Leipzig but scored two goals (even three if he didn't hand one penalty to Mbappe) but according to the "performance by goal count barometer" he had a tremendous night. Ronaldo scored 1 goal against Atletico in the CL final = Great game by clutch CR7. The reality though is that he was garbage in that game and scored a meaningless penalty.
The MOTM count is a much better barometer because it takes the actual performance into account and it's frankly not surprising that Messi wins this comfortably.
 

Righteous Steps

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It feels like that 50% of this thread is people pulling out some random goal stats to prove that one player is better than the other. The problem with this is that football obviously doesn't work like that. Messi was relatively poor against Leipzig but scored two goals (even three if he didn't hand one penalty to Mbappe) but according to the "performance by goal count barometer" he had a tremendous night. Ronaldo scored 1 goal against Atletico in the CL final = Great game by clutch CR7. The reality though is that he was garbage in that game and scored a meaningless penalty.
The MOTM count is a much better barometer because it takes the actual performance into account and it's frankly not surprising that Messi wins this comfortably.
Exactly and he was poor against Liverpool in the final too, that whole clutch argument is one of the funny ones I’ve heard.
 

RedRonaldo

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Messi is better at playmaking while they’re both equal at scoring, whether Ronaldo is better in the air doesn’t matter to much as it doesn’t equate in him scoring a lot more goals, while Messi passing doesn’t equate in him creating far more chances than Ronaldo.. Simple to understand isn’t it?

Messi is an equal scorer and way way better playmaker hence him being a better footballer.
It’s simple way to look at it, to which I mostly agree with.

However, just want to point out there are more to the game than just goalscoring or playmaking. For example, the clutchness, determination, never gives up and mental strength also plays big part to impact on winning games. Those are areas where Ronaldo is exceptionally good at.

It’s like, even when player is best goalscorer by numbers, doesn’t mean he is more likely to score in most crucial moment. Even when player is best playmaker by stats, doesn’t mean he is more likely to deliver when the team need him most etc. Hence there are other important factors which come to play, to define true greatness.
 
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Henandez14

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It feels like that 50% of this thread is people pulling out some random goal stats to prove that one player is better than the other. The problem with this is that football obviously doesn't work like that. Messi was relatively poor against Leipzig but scored two goals (even three if he didn't hand one penalty to Mbappe) but according to the "performance by goal count barometer" he had a tremendous night. Ronaldo scored 1 goal against Atletico in the CL final = Great game by clutch CR7. The reality though is that he was garbage in that game and scored a meaningless penalty.
The MOTM count is a much better barometer because it takes the actual performance into account and it's frankly not surprising that Messi wins this comfortably.
100% I mean how would you compare Beckenbauer and Cruyff? Goals? Assists? Clean sheets? Trophies won?
 

Wolf1992

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It feels like that 50% of this thread is people pulling out some random goal stats to prove that one player is better than the other. The problem with this is that football obviously doesn't work like that. Messi was relatively poor against Leipzig but scored two goals (even three if he didn't hand one penalty to Mbappe) but according to the "performance by goal count barometer" he had a tremendous night. Ronaldo scored 1 goal against Atletico in the CL final = Great game by clutch CR7. The reality though is that he was garbage in that game and scored a meaningless penalty.
The MOTM count is a much better barometer because it takes the actual performance into account and it's frankly not surprising that Messi wins this comfortably.
Exactly.

The goal count barometer is dumb, cause kinda invalidates what other players that aren't a forward do on the pitch.

The advantage that Messi has is that he can provide assists for other players, this late version of Cristiano barely provide assists, he is now just a poacher like Inzaghi.
 

Pocho

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It's unfair to judge both players at this stage of their careers . They both are past their prime and all of what they are bringing is a bonus. I personally think that Messi is better but it's undeniable Ronaldo's capacity to score in any circumstance.
 
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Oly Francis

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However, just want to point out there are more to the game than just goalscoring or playmaking. For example, the clutchness, determination, never gives up and mental strength also plays big part to impact on winning games. Those are areas where Ronaldo is exceptionally good at.
Actually, Messi was considered more clutch up until 2015 or so, but it's true that since, Ronaldo really turned the table especially in the CL.

See for example (over a 2 year period but you get the idea) :

https://the18.com/soccer-news/messi-goal-worth-more-ronaldo-goal-we-have-proof
 

Gehrman

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It's unfair to judge both players at this stage of their careers . They both are past their prime and all of what they are bringing is a bonus. I personally think that Messi is better but it's undeniable Ronaldo's capacity to score in any circumstance.
I agree their legacy was set in stone long ago. However it's incredible that they are both still delivering. Not like at their peak, but still at a very high level.
 

Gehrman

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It feels like that 50% of this thread is people pulling out some random goal stats to prove that one player is better than the other. The problem with this is that football obviously doesn't work like that. Messi was relatively poor against Leipzig but scored two goals (even three if he didn't hand one penalty to Mbappe) but according to the "performance by goal count barometer" he had a tremendous night. Ronaldo scored 1 goal against Atletico in the CL final = Great game by clutch CR7. The reality though is that he was garbage in that game and scored a meaningless penalty.
The MOTM count is a much better barometer because it takes the actual performance into account and it's frankly not surprising that Messi wins this comfortably.
I think MOTM in important games has is important too. Obviously to win the league every game counts, but having a masterclass against Real Madrid or a big team in the CL knockouts is more impressive than scoring a hattrick against a lower table team in the league. I'm not really sure who has motm statistics other than whoscored but I believe that's their own motm awards.
 

Gehrman

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100% I mean how would you compare Beckenbauer and Cruyff? Goals? Assists? Clean sheets? Trophies won?
Or Beckbenbaur and Müller, where Müller was outshone by Beckenbaur despite Müller being one the greatest goalscorers of all time. I guess in that sense it's almost impossible to compare a sweeper to forwards or nr. 10's.
 

Sky1981

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Messi is better at playmaking while they’re both equal at scoring, whether Ronaldo is better in the air doesn’t matter to much as it doesn’t equate in him scoring a lot more goals, while Messi passing doesn’t equate in him creating far more chances than Ronaldo.. Simple to understand isn’t it?

Messi is an equal scorer and way way better playmaker hence him being a better footballer.
Thats a myth. When does he ever playmake like the real maestro? Tell us
 

Gehrman

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Through balls is not playmaking. Playmaking is more than making assist
i know but he's involved in the all the other stuff as well. He's just an advanced/wide/false 9 playmaker unlike Xavi. He's on the ball as much as anyone else, creates the most chances, open up space with his dribbling, is heavily involved in possesion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Football_History_%26_Statistics#The_World's_Best_Playmaker

From wiki.

Qualities of a good playmaker

Perhaps the most important quality of a playmaker is the vision and ability to read the game, and to get into good positions making for effective reception and distribution of the ball. Intuition and creativity are other key elements of a playmaker's game, as they need to know where different players are at different times, without taking too long to dwell on the ball. A good playmaker possesses good ball control, balance, technical ability, and dribbling skills, and will often hold possession, allowing other team members to make attacking runs. The ostensible role of the playmaker is to then provide or facilitate the final pass which leads to a goal.[74] In football terminology, this is often known as a killer ball or the final ball, and is officially recorded as an assist.

Advanced playmakers are often known for their ability to score goals as well as their technical skills, passing, and chance creation ability. They are often – but not always – quick, agile, and mobile players, with good tactical intelligence; their movement off the ball is just as important as their movement on the ball, as they must create space for further attacking plays. Many playmakers are also free-kick, penalty, and dead-ball specialists, who are also capable of curling the ball into the box from set pieces, providing further deliveries for teammates, although this is not necessarily a trait that is required to be a playmaker.[9]
 
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Henandez14

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Or Beckbenbaur and Müller, where Müller was outshone by Beckenbaur despite Müller being one the greatest goalscorers of all time. I guess in that sense it's almost impossible to compare a sweeper to forwards or nr. 10's.
Extend that to players playing different roles in the same position too
 

Sky1981

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i know but he's involved in the all the other stuff as well. He's just an advanced/wide/false 9 playmaker unlike Xavi. He's on the ball as much as anyone else, creates the most chances, open up space with his dribbling, is heavily involved in possesion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Football_History_%26_Statistics#The_World's_Best_Playmaker

From wiki.

Qualities of a good playmaker

Perhaps the most important quality of a playmaker is the vision and ability to read the game, and to get into good positions making for effective reception and distribution of the ball. Intuition and creativity are other key elements of a playmaker's game, as they need to know where different players are at different times, without taking too long to dwell on the ball. A good playmaker possesses good ball control, balance, technical ability, and dribbling skills, and will often hold possession, allowing other team members to make attacking runs. The ostensible role of the playmaker is to then provide or facilitate the final pass which leads to a goal.[74] In football terminology, this is often known as a killer ball or the final ball, and is officially recorded as an assist.

Advanced playmakers are often known for their ability to score goals as well as their technical skills, passing, and chance creation ability. They are often – but not always – quick, agile, and mobile players, with good tactical intelligence; their movement off the ball is just as important as their movement on the ball, as they must create space for further attacking plays. Many playmakers are also free-kick, penalty, and dead-ball specialists, who are also capable of curling the ball into the box from set pieces, providing further deliveries for teammates, although this is not necessarily a trait that is required to be a playmaker.[9]
He's playing in 9/10/11 etc for 500+ games? Off course He's bound to get some assists and through pass and enough to make a youtube reels.

But that doesnt make him a playmaker.
 

Daysleeper

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He's their main man for 500+ games.... no shit he's doing everything.

Our own giggs is doing everything for us, doesnt make him a playmaker.
To say Messi isn’t a playmaker is the most insane thing I’ve read, come on now
 
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