Also not his fault he’s 2 and a half years older.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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And Messi hasn't been displaying that 'monster consistency'? He is 14 goals behind with nearly 2000 minutes less in the same competition, and 1 title behind. See the flaw in that argument, or with cherrypicking a particular stat? How about this stat, in their 35 H2H matches, Messi won 16 to Ronaldo's 10, scored 22 and assisted 12 to Ronaldo's 19 goals and 1 assist. So how does his monster consistency, his special performance doesn't measure up to the counterpart when the two of them take the field against each other? All performances aren't equal indeed.
The fact of that matter is both of them are special footballers with very similar accolades, both team and individual, in the game. But one is clearly the more skillful player and that is the consensus by a clear majority of football fans (even this forum with Ronaldo back at United still have Messi winning), and no amount of cherry picking stats or inventing nonsense argument about 'clutchness' or 'mentality' can alter that fact.
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You said Ronaldo has been a better CL player than Messi since 2011 which is just wrong.
Messi was great yesterday, I agree, but he was GOAT even before Lepzeig
Ronaldo won us one cl, but messi cost us two cl's.
Ronaldo elevated his game after leaving United. And what's this about inventing nonsense arguments and then using one yourself in 'skillful player'?
What’s cherry picking? Ronaldo has the most goal in CL history and the most assists in CL history as well and more CLs than Messi overall. These are all facts. The only cherry picking that’s done is when trying to argue Messi side. Messi hasn’t got one stat on his side in this argument. Even then you give Messi a CL that he won only as a squad member then try to equate that against the CL titles Ronaldo won. Doesn’t that go against your own argument in hiding behind teammates? If we do break it down and analyse performances then shouldn’t there be an asterisk next to 4 win? Ronaldo has done nothing of the sort.
Again, Ronaldo has more games because he gets his sides further into competitions. That’s not an argument against Ronaldo. That’s a slight on Messi.
Play badly or well, Ronaldo scores. There’s also been the criticism that Messis lazy off the ball movement has allowed Barca to be overrun for quite a while now so we can’t even pretend Messi was playing well in spite of Barca for a lot of these embarrassing exits over the years and we will see the same with PSG this season. Mark my words
More skillful, better, use whatever term you like. Or do you think more people voted for Messi because they like his underwear commercial?
How on earth is that wrong? Even Messi would disagree with you here. There is no player that has objectively been more impactful in the champions league than Cristian Ronaldo over the last 10 years. Literally almost every meaningful major stat is in his favour. He’s not nicknamed “Mr Champions League” by the general footballing world for no reason.
The advice of a poster who got 300+ posts himself in this thread. Do you really think you of all people should take advice by a person who lost control over his life in such a dramatic way?
Just messing a bit. Personally, I think it makes absolutely no sense to criticize people for having hundreds of posts in this thread but being fine with people gathering those posts in other football related threads. In the end, we're all people who like to discuss (and spend huge amount of time on) ultimately unimportant matters (football) with people we will most likely never meet on the internet, be it Messi vs. Ronaldo, Sancho to United, Solskjaer, the Super League or whatever. So criticzing the people in this thread isn't really criticizing their behavior but their interest. Adding to that I think your initial post was quite derogatory with a sense of superiority and this impression was even enhanced by the fact that it was your first after 14 years - and you chose to use it to lecture others on how to spend their time. My opinion without any sarcasm, make of that what you will.
You hope and pray.
Mr Champions League delivered again last night. What a guy.
"Get his sides further into competition"
Damn, so CR7 plays alone?
I wonder why didn't he get Juventus further in the last 3 CL, and got knocked out by inferior sides like Ajax,Lyon, and Porto.
It's as if he needs help, and he actually can't carry solo a team.
Wonder also what happened with Cr7, against Belgium and Uruguay in the last two tournaments he played with Portugal... cause he didn't get them further.
Ronaldo certainly is clutch, but Messi also scored 2 goals on tuesday to win the game.
Well if you add up everything both have done over the last 10 years then you could certainly make that argument, I was talking about this arbitrary thing of starting from 2011, when it’s pretty clear that Ronaldo only had significantly greater success from around 2015 onwards (and even that only till 2018: what has he won since leaving Madrid?). How was Ronaldo better from say 2011-2015?
The simplest thing is just to look at their CL careers as a whole. At the moment Ronaldo is ahead, 4-5. (He’s also ahead in goals and assists but has played 30 more games). However their careers are not over and Messi can win more. He is younger. What if he ends up with 6 and Ronaldo has 5? Who’s the greater CL player then?
I think part of the argument was that Messi was not heavily involved in his first CL win. Hence some people don't really count it.
Ronaldo didn’t play alone but was the standout player for them. There’s no need to pretend otherwise. He got Madrid and Utd out of hole after hole after hole. Struggling v PSG at hone, he scores. Being outplayed by Bayern? He scores. Tough away night at Anfield? He scores. Going out at Old Trafford? He scores. Being outplayed by Juve? He scores. 2 down v Wolfsburg? He scores. There are so many examples of these.
I think Messi is the better player but trying to diminish Ronaldo CL performances is ridiculous. You just have to give it to him. For every Ajax on Juves record ( where he scored in each leg ffs) I’ll give you 3 for Messi. It doesn’t diminish Ronaldo or back up Messi in any way. Suddenly it’s a team game when Ronaldo has the accolades to his name, well where are all the other players matching his achievements since we have had some amazing teams over the years? Who are they?
here, read up on this
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsl...hat-uefa-records-does-cristiano-ronaldo-hold/
Well he has a medal, so for people who think that, they have to ask themselves: did Messi put in any world class performances in that particular competition? If the answer is yes, then it should be counted.
After all, Pele’s 1962 World Cup counts for me because he contributed. Partly by scoring one of the greatest goals in World Cup history v Mexico and having a generally incredible performance against them.
The only time it shouldn’t count is in a case like Luis Ronaldo in WC 94, when he got a medal without seeing the field for even a second. Same with Kaka in 02.
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I'm not saying it doesn't count only that it holds lesser importance than the ones where he was the key player.
Do you also hold him responsible when his team loses?
In the run of those 4 CL victories, Ronaldo might have scored the goals since he played forward (was often more forward than Benzema), but the midfield behind him were the best in those periods, they were immense especially Modric. Ronaldo can be clutch up front when he doesn't have to participate in build up play, Messi doesn't have that luxury because he has to participate in creating the goal occasions as well as scoring them.
If you look deeper into almost every stat in which Ronaldo is leading Messi, you'll see that it comes down to him having played a lot more games.
And no he hasn't just played more games because his teams got to the final, since Messi's team often got to the semi finals within that period.
It counts but shouldn’t hold much weight in a Messi vs Ronaldo debate.
Nothing to do with that. That’s just how Messi plays. He had the best midfield of all time behind him in 2 of his 3 CL triumphs between 09-11.
And I also disagree with your last point. Ronaldo has more than double the goals Messi has from the QF- final and also holds the record for most goals in a CL season, (and also the 2nd & 3rd most in a season) which has little to do with how many games he’s played. He’s also the only player to finish topscorer 6 seasons in a row (all occasions more than 10 goals while no one else in history has ever scored 10 goals or more more than 3 times).
Mess does everything Ronaldo does plus has high level play making which Ronaldo doesn’t have, always baffles me how anyone who watches and understands football can rate CR7 higher, he even presses less than Messi.
It has a lot to do with that though. Messi is notable precisely because he scores a lot without being a player that’s always on the shoulder of the last defender. He basically plays as an attacking midfielder, as Pele did. If you look at the heat map of someone like KDB, it’s very similar to a Messi heatmap. It’s harder to score prolifically when you play that way.
If you look at MOTM performances in the CL, Messi has 63, CR has 38. Essentially, Messi is adjudged to be the best player on the pitch in 53% of his matches. That is a lot. With CR it’s more like 30%. It’s exactly the same pattern in the league matches.
The other dude was talking about CR being better than Messi since 2011; well since 2009-10 (the first season when either was given a MOTM), Messi has had more MOTMs every single season apart from 2 (2015-16 and 2016-17). That doesn’t sound better to me…..
Yes you can say well Ronaldo has the goals (mostly close range finishes) and the trophies, but these things can change. I’m old enough to remember when CR was pegged as a CL bottler prior to 2014. Their careers are not over yet.
You once told me that only big international games count out of Ronaldos international record. Why doesn’t that count now? Where is Messis big goals in the biggest CL games that he has over Ronaldo? Why isn’t that argument consistent?
Also MOTM is a subjective award that holds little merit. Messi should have more of those awards since he demanded the play went through him to the detriment of Barca against elite competition. It’s just another sign why Barca struggled in Europe with him.
Messi can win all the voted awards he wants, Ronaldo wins them on the pitch and nobody has been better at that than Cristiano himself.
Do you have a stat on close range finishes or did you throw that in for shits and giggles? Maybe if Messi learned to so hat he would’ve played in 6 CL finals as Ronaldo has.
Matter of fact you’re talking shit. Updated in 2019 almost 25 percent of Ronaldo goals came inside the 6 yard box
https://www.thestatszone.com/the-st...stiano-ronaldos-champions-league-goals-176857
Ronaldo has played in 6 more SF games than Messi.
You people are not well in the head.
Ronaldo has scored a lot more tap ins and penalties to be fair (that's why he is sometimes called Penaldo).A tap in from quarter of an inch (0.999 xG) and a penalty goal?
the discourse here is as bad as twitter. Cyberman you're doing it well, as far as CL goes, Ronaldo is way up there. Messi could catch up but... never forget Ronaldo didn't score one goal until he played 26 UCL matches. Never forget circa 2015 when both were fighting for the topscorer record and now Ronaldo, while 2 years older is at 15? or something more goals. Ronaldo is the clutchman, the big dog, while Messi is a better player.
Your jab at Ronaldo about close range finishes is funny when he actually has more goals outside of the box than Messi in the CL and more FKs scored too. Messi isn’t even in the top 5 for all-time FK scorers in the competition while Ronaldo holds the record for the most.
No matter how you try to construe it, the overwhelming facts point to Ronaldo being the better CL player. MOTM awards is subjective and is probably the only thing you can throw in Messi’s favour. Even then, when you break it down you probably have Messi winning most of his MOTMs in lower pressure group games rather than the latter stages of the competition where Ronaldo comes alive.
For example, in the 16/17 season Messi had 10 goals after the group stages and Ronaldo only 2. By the QFs Messi had 11 and Ronaldo was still on 2. I’m sure you can guess what happened next...
Ronaldo scored 10(!) goals between the QFs and final (including 2 hat-tricks in back to back games ) to finish topscorer in the competition despite facing juggernauts Bayern, Atletico and Juventus in the process. There’s objectively no bigger performer on the grandest stage in Europe’s premier competition than him.
I would have sworn Messi scored in 2 CL finals (and i'm not talking about goals scored when the opposition was already dead), and also has a lot of goals in semi finals (unless you think that big games include only finals).
How subjective is MOM award? It's not like is one person that just chooses who he wants to be MOM. Unlike Ronaldo, Messi doesn't need to score everytime to be the best player.
And no Messi doesn't demand they play through him, his team mates do it naturally because he's the best and has more playmaking abilities than they do. Ronaldo will do it too if he could, but he just simply never had the ability. He's however very intelligent to have sticked to staying high up to score a lot of goals, that's the only reason why there's even a debate like the one in this thread.
Messi has scored more goals from outside the box than Ronaldo.
All since 2011? And are you counting home and away as one encounter or two separate encounters?
He said it before Messi joined PSG
Point to where I said that Messi’s goal record in international KO games is good?
The point I was making in a completely unrelated discussion is that Ronaldo’s record in those games is poor, given his rep as a ‘moments’ player.
Where’s the inconsistency? Explain? Are you saying that Messi’s record in the CL knockouts is as bad as 3 in 17? Because I believe that is CR’s record in the international KOs. But it’s two different discussions, why are you conflating them?
What a ridiculous statement. Really. I don’t even want to dignify it with a response.
Correction, Ronaldo’s team wins them on the pitch. Individually, Messi has been better as the MOTM awards prove. You can dismiss them all you like, but they’re a clear indication of whose all round performances have been better, especially because Messi is so far ahead. If they were closer in number, you might have an argument re ‘subjectivity’ but as they’re not, you don’t.
Here are all the goals Ronaldo has scored in the Champions League (minus some of the recent ones). At the start there is much more variety than at the end, in keeping with the change in his game.
This thread is getting more and more insane every day. You'd think a wizard put the ball there for Messi to stumble upon it.
Did you watch the full goal?A tap in from quarter of an inch (0.999 xG) and a penalty goal?
I adore this thread and everyone in it
love you too dude
Of course he doesn't play alone and I don't want to dispute it.
But he did led Juventus and Portugal further.
Against Ajax? He scored away and home. Still not enough. His fault?
Against Lyon? He scored 2 goals at home. Still not enough. His fault?
Against Porto yes he had little impact, only 1 assist in both games combined.
Against Belgium? Well would Portugal be playing Belgium anyway if he didn't score the 2 penalties vs France? (When he scored the second Portugal at that moment was last in the group).
Against Uruguay? Where would Portugal be if he didn't single handily get an hattrick against Spain and a decisive goal vs Morocco.
He clearly failed in those knockout games but it's the case of dragging the team through the mud and still being yelled at that you didn't finish the race fast enough
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