Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

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ValenciaRocks

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Both.

Messi is better at some things and Ronaldo better at others...

We are just lucky to have them pioneering the football world at the same time.

If I had to choose, then Ronaldo for me. Simply because he’s better for his country.
 

Sing you a song

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The best teams play in the CL, and Messi has scored 19 goals in his last 18 games against PL sides in the CL.

To suggest that he couldn’t do it week in week out against English clubs is ludicrous, especially considering the fact I have just given.

Aguero has been tearing up the PL for years now after moving from Spain. And Messi is far superior to him.

Suarez tore up the PL and is also great in La Liga. Again Messi is far superior to him.

Diego Costa another top striker in the PL after coming from spain and Messi is far superior to him.

Etc etc.
I never suggested that Messi couldn't do it,I just emphasise tha Ronny HAD done it so we don't need to rely on supposition with regard to him.
It's an interesting debate and no one will convince Messi fans that Ronny is the best and vice Versa.
They are both unbelievable players and we are all lucky to have seen them.
I was lucky enough to see George Best play week in week out but for me certainly the best I have ever seen was Ronaldo and given the way football is going with "good " players being classed and paid as superstars.I honestly don't think we will see someone as good as either for a long time
 

Andycoleno9

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I never understand how people can compare those two. I mean, ronaldo is a goal maschine, complete player who is scoring loads of goals. But messi is another level.
Ronaldo needs team to work for him, ronaldo will not make his teammates better.
Messi can win you games by himself. He can score, he can dribble through players and he assissts. Messi includes whole team in game.
 

Righteous Steps

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I never suggested that Messi couldn't do it,I just emphasise tha Ronny HAD done it so we don't need to rely on supposition with regard to him.
It's an interesting debate and no one will convince Messi fans that Ronny is the best and vice Versa.
They are both unbelievable players and we are all lucky to have seen them.
I was lucky enough to see George Best play week in week out but for me certainly the best I have ever seen was Ronaldo and given the way football is going with "good " players being classed and paid as superstars.I honestly don't think we will see someone as good as either for a long time

Messi has had more great big games than Ronaldo, simple funny you mention George Best because when people remember him they don't just remember the time he did nothing all game and got a brace, they remember him constantly tormenting teams with his dribbling passing and all round game, like he did to Benfica..
 

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I never suggested that Messi couldn't do it,I just emphasise tha Ronny HAD done it so we don't need to rely on supposition with regard to him.
It's an interesting debate and no one will convince Messi fans that Ronny is the best and vice Versa.
They are both unbelievable players and we are all lucky to have seen them.
I was lucky enough to see George Best play week in week out but for me certainly the best I have ever seen was Ronaldo and given the way football is going with "good " players being classed and paid as superstars.I honestly don't think we will see someone as good as either for a long time
Then why mention that Ronaldo had done it. You can’t hold it against Messi that he hasn’t done it, because he is loyal to Barca and doesn’t need to play in England to prove himself. He has done it enough against the best English teams in Europe regularly enough.
 

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It's quite simple! These two players are only compared to each other because of their accomplishments. Otherwise they are very different. One is a specialist in creating danger from outside the box the other in creating them inside.

No one talks about it but I think they would make a quite formidable pair.
 

Peyroteo

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Messi has had more great big games than Ronaldo, simple funny you mention George Best because when people remember him they don't just remember the time he did nothing all game and got a brace, they remember him constantly tormenting teams with his dribbling passing and all round game, like he did to Benfica..
:lol:

Must be great having a player that simultaneously does nothing and gets a brace. I think there are a lot of people here that need some help understanding how this whole football thing works.

As of now Ronaldo's the better player career wise because he's outperformed Messi in the Champions League and internationally, couldn't care less how many sharp turns he does per match. If Messi takes Barcelona all the way in the Champions League or if he does it with Argentina in the World Cup that will change.
 
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we need to set up a college electorate vote for when Messi wins the poll so that the Ronaldo fans can find a way to claim he did.
 

Peyroteo

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this was the article from last year, after he broke Greaves record - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...aldo-breaks-Jimmy-Greaves-scoring-record.html

1. Sevilla
2. Getafe
3. Bilbao

only 1 goal vs Liverpool and only 1 goal vs Chelsea btw.
Well, obviously the fact he plays more often against Sevilla, Atletico and Barcelona won't be true if you include only league goals since he plays twice against every team in the league :houllier:

The 2 teams he's scored more against are Atletico and Sevilla. Barcelona won't be too far behind.
 

PuyolC

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Well, obviously the fact he plays more often against Sevilla, Atletico and Barcelona won't be true if you include only league goals since he plays twice against every team in the league :houllier:

The 2 teams he's scored more against are Atletico and Sevilla. Barcelona won't be too far behind.
Nope, the 2 teams he's scored more against are Sevilla and Getafe.
 

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I like to think of it as Ronaldo is the best a human could be. His power, pace, and tenacity. Ability to score from anywhere and no one heads the ball like him. You can't think of anything a human could improve on. But then there is Messi and he is like a god. He does things with the ball no one could do or simply imagine doing. You can't compare them it is simply the greatest human of all time and someone who has transcended. Can only watch in wonderment.
 

Culero

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How many times has messi played against a top English side ?

Ronny proved himself in the toughest league in the world week after week month after month at United.

Both are great players but Ronaldo has shown he can do it in England and in Spain and at international level.
Even now with his powers waining he would still be top scorer in the Prem
My issue more than anything is how can you watch a player like Messi and even for one second doubt that he would be able to not do it week in week out in England????
 

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Messi with Barcelona would obviously be just as good in England but I'd love to see Messi in England with a team that played different style of football. He seems a lot more suited to possession football than he is to a direct and physical style, I think that's what people mean when they make the England comparisons.

No doubt he'd still be incredible but it would be interesting to see how much would change and how he'd adapt.
Not a great example but Luis Enrique's Barcelona were very transition heavy, counter after counter by bypassing the midfield. I reckon you put Messi in a counterattacking side his vision would be more pronounced as he would pick out passes all day.
 

MalcolmTucker

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It's quite simple! These two players are only compared to each other because of their accomplishments. Otherwise they are very different. One is a specialist in creating danger from outside the box the other in creating them inside.

No one talks about it but I think they would make a quite formidable pair.
Especially now, earlier on in their careers perhaps not. Can you imagine how many goals current Ronaldo would have with Messi laying it on for him? Messi would probably beat the assist record for the season with Ronaldo to finish his passes
 

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It would be a disgrace to football if they retire before playing a football match together, even if it's just 20 minutes in a friendly for charity.
 

gibers

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Messi with Barcelona would obviously be just as good in England but I'd love to see Messi in England with a team that played different style of football. He seems a lot more suited to possession football than he is to a direct and physical style, I think that's what people mean when they make the England comparisons.

No doubt he'd still be incredible but it would be interesting to see how much would change and how he'd adapt.
Doubt it would affect him tbh. Put him in City's current team and he would probably get 50 goals based on the chances they create. If Aguero, Silva and Hazard can play in the league Messi would have no problem as he's stonger on the ball than all of them, better in tight spaces etc.

When you mean physical and direct, why would you play long balls to Messi? Makes no sense.

Also, Enrique's team played with faster transitions with Messi being the creator.

Depends on the teams set up tbh.
 

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My issue more than anything is how can you watch a player like Messi and even for one second doubt that he would be able to not do it week in week out in England????
I don't think he couldn't but he wouldn't be with his Barcelona teammates so it would be different as Barcelona offers him the best platform to exploit his talents and playstyle. In theory he should be as dominant, in an individual level, on any other top team but at the same time his the player he is today thanks to Barcelona system and philosophy so in the end it's a pointless exercise to imagine how he would do in another team/league with different team mates.

So I still think it's very remarkable for Ronaldo to have been successful and dominant in the two best leagues and constantly adapting his style to offer the best output to his team. Messi hasn't had that opportunity but it's a different situation as no team would represent an upgrade in what he has in Barcelona.
 

wr8_utd

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If Ronaldo had continued playing how he did in 2006-07 for United, I think a lot of people would have held him far closer to Messi than now. Its strange that his phenomenal goal scoring feats are a reason his overall game has gone down a lot and is a reason he's not really at the same level as Messi for a lot of people. I'm firmly in the Messi camp but if Ronaldo had played even 5-6 more years at that amazing 06-07 level, the opinions would be a lot more divided even among the neutrals.
 

wr8_utd

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And also this talk of Messi only doing brilliantly because it's Barca, he's been doing brilliantly in a team that had absolutely no one else at a good level for half this season. Even Suarez was struggling to pass a ball till January.
 

Culero

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I don't think he couldn't but he wouldn't be with his Barcelona teammates so it would be different as Barcelona offers him the best platform to exploit his talents and playstyle. In theory he should be as dominant, in an individual level, on any other top team but at the same time his the player he is today thanks to Barcelona system and philosophy so in the end it's a pointless exercise to imagine how he would do in another team/league with different team mates.

So I still think it's very remarkable for Ronaldo to have been successful and dominant in the two best leagues and constantly adapting his style to offer the best output to his team. Messi hasn't had that opportunity but it's a different situation as no team would represent an upgrade in what he has in Barcelona.
Then that's how it should be expressed, how would a team in England with Messi look like? My personal belief is great players are great wherever they go, seeing how well Spanish exports do in England it is unfathomable that Messi would not be an instant success.

The sentiment I want to share is that Messi has not played outside of Spain so to use that as a advantage Ronaldo holds over him is a moot point.
 

Peyroteo

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If Ronaldo had continued playing how he did in 2006-07 for United, I think a lot of people would have held him far closer to Messi than now. Its strange that his phenomenal goal scoring feats are a reason his overall game has gone down a lot and is a reason he's not really at the same level as Messi for a lot of people. I'm firmly in the Messi camp but if Ronaldo had played even 5-6 more years at that amazing 06-07 level, the opinions would be a lot more divided even among the neutrals.
So Ronaldo should have played at a lower level for longer so he could be held in higher esteem by a big part of football fans.

The sad part is that you may very well be right.
 

wr8_utd

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So Ronaldo should have played at a lower level for longer so he could be held in higher esteem by a big part of football fans.

The sad part is that you may very well be right.
I think that version of Ronaldo was an absolute joy to watch. He was a constant menace down the wing and he combined it with goals as well. A 30-40 goals a season version of that Ronaldo would have been unplayable. Ofcourse he chose to become a monster of a finisher and a bit of a machine but its sad that he didn't keep up that all around game which he was totally capable off. Ofcourse his trophies and stats speak for themselves but you do feel he could have been so much more complete a footballer than just a goal scoring phenom that he's become.
 

Peyroteo

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I think that version of Ronaldo was an absolute joy to watch. He was a constant menace down the wing and he combined it with goals as well. A 30-40 goals a season version of that Ronaldo would have been unplayable. Ofcourse he chose to become a monster of a finisher and a bit of a machine but its sad that he didn't keep up that all around game which he was totally capable off. Ofcourse his trophies and stats speak for themselves but you do feel he could have been so much more complete a footballer than just a goal scoring phenom that he's become.
It's just like the past 11 years haven't happened. I don't know if maybe I'm the one who doesn't understand football, if everyone has been watching different games than me or if people don't really believe in what they're saying but just don't like the guy. You really think Cristiano Ronaldo since 2007 hasn't been a complete player and that he's just a great goalscorer?
 

wr8_utd

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It's just like the past 11 years haven't happened. I don't know if maybe I'm the one who doesn't understand football, if everyone has been watching different games than me or if people don't really believe in what they're saying but just don't like the guy. You really think Cristiano Ronaldo since 2007 hasn't been a complete player and that he's just a great goalscorer?
I can definitely say I've not "enjoyed" watching atleast the last 3-5 years of Ronaldo. I guess being the amazing goalscorer that he is should give you some joy but knowing that there's a player out there giving the same numbers while also amazing everyone with his football means you know Ronaldo could easily do more. He might not have ever had the natural talent of Messi but he was capable of brilliant football in his own right. It's no shame not being as good at football as Messi but you do feel Ronaldo, as an all round footballer, could have been closer.
 

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What a bunch of biased propaganda, lol.



Messi has scored 5 of his 47 goals in Copa against teams that weren't in First division, Benidorm, Cultural Leonesa, Ceuta and 2 vs Cordoba, he only scored 3 goals before R16 which is basically 80% Primera teams.

His record in the cup is:

5 goals in the final, 1 vs Alaves, 4 vs Athletic Bilbao
11 goals in semifinals, 3 vs Valencia, 2 vs Getafe and Almeria, one vs Mallorca, Real Sociedad, Villarreal and Atletico
10 goals in quarterfinals, 4 vs Betis,2 vs Malaga, one vs Atletico, Zaragoza, Real Sociedad and Espanyol
18 goals in Last 16, 4 vs Getafe, 3 vs Atletico, 2 vs Athletic, Celta, Espanyol, Cordoba and Osasuna

There's a gulf between you saying that lower division teams helped him get that record, and then him only scoring 5 against non first division teams and 6 against Athletic or 5 against Atletico alone.



2 months before Pep's arrival to the "best Barça ever"



Obviously, Pep built the best Barça ever from that, it wasn't like Pep used Leo to his full extent in order to build the best Barça ever.

And we can expect Pep to sell Ronaldinho and Deco and turn a team that finished 18 points behind Real Madrid to win a treble, but we can't expect Ronaldo to send Real Madrid past Lyon in the R16 on his first year there while also signing Benzema, Kaka and Alonso, that wouldn't be fair.

It can't be that Pep's Barça was the best ever because he had Messi, it has to be the other way around, just look at all the UCL titles Pep has won without Leo and vice versa



What's your reasoning about better with his weak foot? Leo is 14 goals behind Ronaldo with his weak foot in 150 games less, if he's better, it's marginally.

Why is he better at the counter, because he runs faster? Who'd you rather have in your team, Obafemi Martins or Michael Laudrup as a quintessencial counter attack player?

How is he better off the ball? Because he runs faster at the space? It's not even the same concept as "off the ball"



The power of amazing

Jokes aside, he's indeed a most useful player at set pieces... unless you take into account that if Ronaldo is defending a set piece, Messi is outside the area to launch the counter (and he's good at it, trust me, there's a treble almost won on that), and that where there's a good header, usually you can use a good player crossing it at set pieces, know who's good at crossing from corners?, so in the end both have their effects in set pieces that almost nullifies each other's advantages.




Because he's done it for the past 2 seasons at abnornal rate?, Messi is entering now the age Cristiano had before his Wolfsburg hat-trick, and up until that point their stats are identical.

And then, you're probably forgetting that Leo has been being decisive for almost a decade vs Bayern, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Arsenal, United, PSG or Milan in KO stages, so what, he never put 5 on the same leg vs Bayern? He destroyed them anyway, being decisive itself is not scoring a bunch once the game is over, is doint the most important effort to win it, he has that more than covered.

The facts are never propaganda man, are pure reallity.
First of all, you know that Zaragoza, Osasuna, Mallorca, etc, are 2nd division teams also right? Then you have the teams like Getafe, Almeria, Celta, Betis, Malaga, etc that are teams that move usually from mid to lower table positions almost every year, clearly not Champions League level teams. And then, you have the Real Madrid, Atletico, Sevilla, Valencia, Villareal that are the teams that are always in UCL or Europa League positions almost every year, and he doesn't gets to 10 goals between them all in Copa del Rey.

Messi has been in 2 Copa del Rey finals vs Real Madrid, and went without scoring or making any kind of impact in both games. Cristiano played in only one of that finals, and he scored the only goal of the match that gave Madrid the Cup.

Then again, From Pep's Barca, the fact is that when Ronaldo got to Real Madrid, Pep had been alreaady one year as the coach winning everything, and Real Madrid was terrible. Still, Ronaldo first season in Madrid, while is true that he didn't win anything, he make the team get 96 points in La Liga, all time record in that time for Real Madrid. The problem is that Pep's Barca made more...

But to tell that Pep's Barca was winning everything because they had Messi has to be one of the biggest lies someone can tell around here, easily demonstrated when you see that Spain's National Team won 2 Eurocups in a row and 1 World Cup between 2008 and 2012, just the same years Pep was in Barca, and they won them all without Messi but with 6 starters from that Barca team. Now tell me what did Messi won in that years without Barca. Or better, what has Messi won in all his career without Barca? Absolutely nothing.
So yes, that Barca team was ruthless because it was made by the Spanish golden generation with, Iniesta, Xavi, Puyol, Busquets, Pique, Villa, etc. They won everything they played in that times with and without Messi...

To tell that Messi is in the same level than Ronaldo with his weak foot looks like a joke, Messi will never score a goal with his right if it is not a tap in, or have you ever seen him make a strong shot outside the box with his weak foot and score? I have never, but I've seen Ronaldo doing it a lot. You only have to see them play to notice that.

Ronaldo is better at the counter because he has demonstrated it for years. Its not only that he is faster.
Mou's Real Madrid was one of the best counterattacking teams ever, also Ancellotti Real Madrid, and in all of them Cristiano was the most important part of them, he usually launched them from corners or free kicks in their own box, and then finished the counter with the goal. There are thousands of videos in youtube of the Real Madrid Counterattacks, if you see some of them you will get clear why Ronaldo is better than Messi in that regard.

You say that they are in the same level in set pieces because one is a great header and the other is a great passer in the corner kicks. Tell me, how often Cristiano scores with his head in set pieces, and how often Messi gets an assist in set piece. One of Madrid's biggests goal threats are the set pieces, and Barca has been since a long time ago, totally threatless in set pieces, so no, they don't nullify anything, it is much much more influential Cristiano in set pieces than Messi.

The last 2 years scoring at an abnormal rate in UCL gave Cristiano 2 Ballon D'Or, 2 FIFA Best Awards, and 2 Champions League Trophies, so then, I don't understand your point. 2 seasons ago CR7 had still 10 Semifinal goals vs Messi's 4.
But Im pretty sure being the topscorer of then UCL in the last 7 years in a row is a lot of time, and a hat trick to Wolfsburg doesn't minimizes anything.

You say that he destroyed in the last 10 years teams like Bayern or Chelsea, but I remember that Chelsea always kicks away Barca whenever they face them in UCL with the exception of this year, and he had never scored them before this year's tie. And Bayern? They won them 3 years ago, but don't forget one year before that, Bayern took them out by winning them 7-0 between the two legs, with Messi in there.
He has only scored 4 goals to them ever, so its hard to tell that he always trashes them.
PSG?? He has only scored them once, in the 7-0 turnaround last year, scoring his only goal with a penalty kick that doesn't even was a foul. He disappeared both games (he made the same vs Juventus the next round) and Barca made the 'remontada' thanks to Neymar, Suarez, and the Referee. Messi just disappeared vs PSG and vs Juve.

The teams Messi has scored the most in Europe are (in that order):
Arsenal, Celtic, AC Milan, Bayer Leverkusen, Ajax.

The teams Cristiano has scored the most in Europe (without taking Atletico into account) are:
Tottenham, Bayern Munich, Schalke, Ajax, Juventus.


Like I said bro, facts are never propaganda, is a fact that both have 5 Ballon D'Or, that both have 4 golden boots, Cristiano has 2 FIFA Best Awards, and a mayor trophy with his NT, Messi dosn't has neither of them. But most important, that Messi's peak was in the times of Pep's Barca. Since that times he has only won 1 Ballon D'Or vs Ronaldo's 4, 1 UCL vs Ronaldo's 3, hasn't outscored Ronaldo in UCL not even once, and hasn't won anithing with his NT while Ronaldo has.

The last years have been hard times for the Messi supporters, you know that my friend...
 

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I think it's downright ridiculous for any player to have scored more goals than games they've played for a club.

There's something about Ronaldo's perseverance and determination to be the best that wins me over. Messi is undoubtedly the most talented footballer of the generation, if not all time, but Ronaldo really seems to have moulded himself into this phenomenon - and it's that work rate that I really respect above all. Too many good players buy into their own hype and don't elevate their game further, Ronaldo is a prime example of how not standing still can make you arguably one of the best of all time.

I think his La Liga record is just stupid. He's not the top scorer of all time, but he's certainly got the best strike rate that league will ever see. And, in my opinion, he's never been involved in a team as nearly as talented as any of the Barcelona teams that Messi has lined up in.
 

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Thanks for a good post.

There is no doubt that Ronaldo has proven him self better in the last KO stages in the UCL! In comparison, Ronaldo scores every 107 min. While Messi scores every 128 min. in the KO stages.

But in terms of total minutes played and goals scored in the UCL, Messi is slightly better as he scores a goal every 101 minute while Ronaldo scores every 109 minute.
Of course my friend, Messi is slightly better in minutes played and goals scored in the UCL if you take into account their whole career stats, including Ronaldo's 3 clubs. In fact, he took him 30 games to score his first goal in the competition.
But since he got to Real Madrid, Ronaldo scores every 83 minutes in UCL vs 101 minutes for Messi.
In all competitions he has 443 goals in 429 games in all competitions with RM, thats 1.03 goals a game ratio!
Messi with Barca has 542 goals in 626 games in all competitions, thats 0.87 goals a game ratio.

Like I said in other post, it is more fair to compare them with their actual teams since they are almost in the same level and have similar offensive power. Can't compare playing in Sporting FC vs Barcelona...
 

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I can definitely say I've not "enjoyed" watching atleast the last 3-5 years of Ronaldo. I guess being the amazing goalscorer that he is should give you some joy but knowing that there's a player out there giving the same numbers while also amazing everyone with his football means you know Ronaldo could easily do more. He might not have ever had the natural talent of Messi but he was capable of brilliant football in his own right. It's no shame not being as good at football as Messi but you do feel Ronaldo, as an all round footballer, could have been closer.
Nobody has the same numbers as Ronaldo and it's a shame you haven't enjoyed him play, although maybe that should be seen as a positive.

I think your definition of all round footballer is very different from mine and that you're assuming he changed his game as a choice rather than because of the injury he had 3 years ago. Some players' knees go and they retire, his knees went, he adapted and he's easily scoring more than anyone else on the planet at 33 while being the main man in one of the most successful periods in the history of his club, which is none other than Real Madrid.

I guess he'll have to keep winning, scoring, breaking records and showing his magic while most fans are unimpressed and hopefully when he hangs his boots and people look back they'll be able to apreciate it more.
 

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This is like comparing white to red wine. We all have our favorite and can't deny one pairs better than the other in particular situations.
 

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we need to set up a college electorate vote for when Messi wins the poll so that the Ronaldo fans can find a way to claim he did.
They would more likely need a military coup to make it happen if the numbers so far are anything to go by.
 

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Then that's how it should be expressed, how would a team in England with Messi look like? My personal belief is great players are great wherever they go, seeing how well Spanish exports do in England it is unfathomable that Messi would not be an instant success.
I used to think, some years ago, it was a valid point to wonder if Messi could be as good in other league, with a different team but the thing is that he has been very consistent overall year in year out to doubt about his capabilities and talent. He's also very intelligent and has switched positions and gotten better at some aspects of his game so his career is also very impressive. In the Premier League maybe Arsenal would had been the best fit for him but like 10 years ago, lol.
 

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I used to think, some years ago, it was a valid point to wonder if Messi could be as good in other league, with a different team but the thing is that he has been very consistent overall year in year out to doubt about his capabilities and talent. He's also very intelligent and has switched positions and gotten better at some aspects of his game so his career is also very impressive. In the Premier League maybe Arsenal would had been the best fit for him but like 10 years ago, lol.
Plus he's bested PL teams in massive CL games. He's scored in two finals against our lot - hard to then say he wouldn't have been putting five past Sunderland or Stoke every week after that.
 

FK201617

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Both are all time all great with unbeliveable consistency.
Ronaldo is a goal scoring machine, a top 10 all time great for me.
Messi matches him in goal scoring. He is also a playmaker and dribbler at the highest caliber, influencing the game more, top 3 all time great IMO.
 
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