Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Swoobs]

You're trying your best to come across more intellectual with this I suspect you've learned it recently and I encourage learning new things but I'll let you know forcing new concepts where they don't apply isn't a good look.

The burden of proof is on those claiming what happened with certainty. My stance has always been there is no accurate story out there. They would have to show one such accurate story to debunk me..

Nope, you were the one who asked for proof that something did not exist, in this case,that something is the genuine interest in cr7 by clubs.

“Show me proof that genuine interest in cr7 by clubs did not exist”, “show me proof that god does not exist”, “show me proof that wmds in Iraq do not exist”.You read tons of such logical fallicies in religious and political forums, because it is literally impossible to show proofs that something does not exist as compared to proving something do exists.

It seemed like you are not even capable of using google, so i will do you a favour.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Proving-Non-Existence

Ironic that you are questioning my intellect when you cannot even comprehend such a simple concept. Luckily for you this is an internet forum, not your workplace. Imagine presenting such a stupid question to your manager or clients.

 

[shamans]

Nope, you were the one who asked for proof that something did not exist, in this case,that something is the genuine interest in cr7 by clubs.

“Show me proof that genuine interest in cr7 by clubs did not exist”, “show me proof that god does not exist”, “show me proof that wmds in Iraq do not exist”.You read tons of such logical fallicies in religious and political forums, because it is literally impossible to show proofs that something does not exist as compared to proving something do exists.

It seemed like you are not even capable of using google, so i will do you a favour.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Proving-Non-Existence

Ironic that you are questioning my intellect when you cannot even comprehend such a simple concept. Luckily for you this is an internet forum, not your workplace. Imagine presenting such a stupid question to your manager or clients.

Okay buddy. If you can't prove baseless articles regarding Ronaldo just say so no need to tell me what you learned in debates 101..

 

[shamans]

Ah come on, even if you disagree it's pretty obvious in fairness. It's even obvious from your post you know.

I genuinely don't know if the argument was being made for Messi or Ronaldo I reckon it was for Messi because of the biased fans comment.

I've seen far more "great goals" from ronado.

 

[Zehner]

I genuinely don't know if the argument was being made for Messi or Ronaldo I reckon it was for Messi because of the biased fans comment.

I've seen far more "great goals" from ronado.

That's just such nonsense. Messi scores far more goals from outside the box, after beating players, after nice passing sequences and so forth. If you don't have a fundamentally different definition of 'great goal' than 99% of the fan base, Messi scores more of them even in your eyes. Your last posts in this thread are textbook examples of intellectual dishonesty

 

[shamans]

That's just such nonsense. Messi scores far more goals from outside the box, after beating players, after nice passing sequences and so forth. If you don't have a fundamentally different definition of 'great goal' than 99% of the fan base, Messi scores more of them even in your eyes. Your last posts in this thread are textbook examples of intellectual dishonesty

This is the weirdest thing about Messi fans. If I think Ronaldo scores more great goals it's "intellectual dishonesty" but if you think it's Messi I don't care? I care enough to show I'm right but wouldn't say you're being intellectually dishonest.

Just ridiculous. I have to change my opinion otherwise I'm dishonest to myself.

The best headers I've ever seen = Ronaldo
Best long range goals = Ronaldo
Best bicycle kicks = Ronaldo
Best dribbles/run goals = Messi

For any of the categories I can show you a better goal of the person I listed out.

 

[Zehner]

This is the weirdest thing about Messi fans. If I think Ronaldo scores more great goals it's "intellectual dishonesty" but if you think it's Messi I don't care? I care enough to show I'm right but wouldn't say you're being intellectually dishonest.

Just ridiculous. I have to change my opinion otherwise I'm dishonest to myself.

The best headers I've ever seen = Ronaldo
Best long range goals = Ronaldo
Best bicycle kicks = Ronaldo
Best dribbles/run goals = Messi

For any of the categories I can show you a better goal of the person I listed out.

Because it is a fact that Messi scores more goals from outside the box, after dribblings, free kicks, combinations, etc. There is nothing to discuss here. In fact, he scores almost twice as much of them as Ronaldo: https://tribuna.com/en/news/fcbarcelona-2020-03-06-stats-show-messi-is-the-king-of-longrange-goals/

Which goals you think are the most beautiful is a different question and up to you but it is a fact that Messi scores more great goals unless you have a fundamentally different definition of what makes a goal "great". That aside, there's no room for interpretation.

 

[Gehrman]

That's just such nonsense. Messi scores far more goals from outside the box, after beating players, after nice passing sequences and so forth. If you don't have a fundamentally different definition of 'great goal' than 99% of the fan base, Messi scores more of them even in your eyes. Your last posts in this thread are textbook examples of intellectual dishonesty

TBF I think Ronaldo's goal highlights are as good as Messi's and i'm more a Messi fan than Ronaldo. Yes Messi has some absolutely iconic solo goals that only dribblers like him can score, but apart from those Ronaldo has a incredible portfolio of goals as well. Volleys, screamers like the one at Porto, free kick vs Arsenal, overhead kicks, towering headers, diving headers, scoring with his penis, some nice goals where he beats some players as well.

 

[Zehner]

TBF I think Ronaldo's goal highlights are as good as Messi's and i'm more a Messi fan than Ronaldo. Yes Messi has some absolutely iconic solo goals that only dribblers like him can score, but apart from those Ronaldo has a incredible portfolio of goals as well. Volleys, screamers like the one at Porto, free kick vs Arsenal, overhead kicks, towering headers, diving headers, scoring with his penis, some nice goals where he beats some players as well.

Yes of course. Debating this actually made me rewatch a few goal compilations of Ronaldo

But we were talking about frequency, not career highlight goals. And in terms of frequency, there's not really much to discuss.

 

[Pocho]

Trying to minimize one or the other is just ridiculous. Ronaldo is great, top 5 maybe, Messi is better, that´s it.

 

[Gehrman]

Yes of course. Debating this actually made me rewatch a few goal compilations of Ronaldo

But we were talking about frequency, not career highlight goals. And in terms of frequency, there's not really much to discuss.

With frequency maybe. Messi has scored more goals in open play than Ronaldo despite playing about 100 fewer matches, but apart from that I still it's somewhat subjective. Like how much one appreciates Ronaldo's headers vs Messi's "generic" goals.

 

[Paxi]

Trying to minimize one or the other is just ridiculous. Ronaldo is great, top 5 maybe, Messi is better, that´s it.

But ronaldo is better

 

[Zehner]

With frequency maybe. Messi has scored more goals in open play than Ronaldo despite playing about 100 fewer matches, but apart from that I still it's somewhat subjective. Like how much one appreciates Ronaldo's headers vs Messi's "generic" goals.

I think every goal from outside the box is a great goal. So if Messi scores those twice as frequent as Cristiano, the latter would have to make up for that by other means. And that is just.. well.. unrealistic, even if you consider every goal Messi scores inside the box generic (which is obviously not the case, same with Cristiano).

 

[shamans]

Because it is a fact that Messi scores more goals from outside the box, after dribblings, free kicks, combinations, etc. There is nothing to discuss here. In fact, he scores almost twice as much of them as Ronaldo: https://tribuna.com/en/news/fcbarcelona-2020-03-06-stats-show-messi-is-the-king-of-longrange-goals/

Which goals you think are the most beautiful is a different question and up to you but it is a fact that Messi scores more great goals unless you have a fundamentally different definition of what makes a goal "great". That aside, there's no room for interpretation.

Yes of course. Debating this actually made me rewatch a few goal compilations of Ronaldo

But we were talking about frequency, not career highlight goals. And in terms of frequency, there's not really much to discuss.

No we weren't, we were talking about "great goals" and who has scored more -- which would be career highlights.

You're now claiming "every goal outside of the box is a great goal" which is a very weak definition of a great goal.

For me a great goal is one that can take your breath away, leave you going "no way" -- not any goal from outside the box. Even by your arbitrary definition Ronaldo has incredible goals inside the box. He has those hanging handers where he stays in the air for what seems like an eternity, bicycle kicks, first touch volleys like he scored for Juve against us and the list goes on.

From outside the box as well in my opinion certain goals Ronaldo has scored has been some of the best long range goals I've ever seen and they generally come from further outside the box than Messi.

Anyway, my point is in my opinion Ronaldo has more great goals and you can disagree with this but for you to go on and say I'm being "intellectually dishonest" is very quintessential Messi hardcorde fan who put so little value in all the things Messi is potentially bested at.

 

[shamans]

Because it is a fact that Messi scores more goals from outside the box, after dribblings, free kicks, combinations, etc. There is nothing to discuss here. In fact, he scores almost twice as much of them as Ronaldo: https://tribuna.com/en/news/fcbarcelona-2020-03-06-stats-show-messi-is-the-king-of-longrange-goals/

Which goals you think are the most beautiful is a different question and up to you but it is a fact that Messi scores more great goals unless you have a fundamentally different definition of what makes a goal "great". That aside, there's no room for interpretation.

I guess "intellectual honesty" really is the theme isn't it?

First of all, your link is from since 2013 after which Ronaldo has primarily played as we center forward. Messi still has more from outside the box, but it's not "double" as far as I know. Anyway, here is some text from an article that actually claims messi is the better outside the box scorer:

It's worth noting the contrasting style of Messi and Ronaldo's goals from outside the box. Messi's tend to be bent in from the edge of the D with controlled power. He is considerably less likely to take pot-shots from long range, preferring to dribble or continue the build-up play until he's in a more likely scoring position. However this is not to say he doesn't have the ability to score from further out, as he often proves with his long-distance free kicks.


Ronaldo on the other hand is more partial to your typical "screamer", often attempting thunderous efforts from 25+ yards out. He is much more willing to hit speculative efforts, with the confidence that he has the ability and power to beat the keeper from almost anywhere.

Overall, despite Ronaldo's reputation for powerful long range efforts, it's not really surprising that Messi has the better numbers in this category, and here's why...


Messi is not a penalty box striker; he's a deep-lying forward who naturally looks for space around the edge of the box, and his curled efforts from the edge of the D are practically his trademark goal. Ronaldo on the other hand has increasingly morphed into your typical centre-forward, looking to finish moves in the penalty area rather than receiving the ball in deep positions.

So at least I'm not the only "intellectually dishonest" person in the world...

 

[Cal?]

I think every goal from outside the box is a great goal. So if Messi scores those twice as frequent as Cristiano, the latter would have to make up for that by other means. And that is just.. well.. unrealistic, even if you consider every goal Messi scores inside the box generic (which is obviously not the case, same with Cristiano).

That's just a ridiculous criteria only designed to make Messi look good, we could just as easily claim every headed goal is a great goal.

You honestly think the goal at around 1:35 in this video clip ia a great goal?

 

[Gehrman]

That's just a ridiculous criteria only designed to make Messi look good, we could just as easily claim every headed goal is a great goal.

You honestly think the goal at around 1:35 in this video clip ia a great goal?

Yes

 

[shamans]

It's brilliant though how you can take a strength of mess, i.e scoring from the edge of the box and then morph it into that strength automatically being a "great" goal every time.

 

[shamans]

Yes

The one before this:


Right before 5:00 minute mark here is also a really good goal but that's how most of Messi's outside the box goals are. Again if you think that's better than Ronaldo's screamers that's your opinion but crazy to suggest all of these goals are just factually better than Ronald's long range ones.

 

[Daysleeper]

So you will be the judge of which stance is the more unlikely one?

Its common sense in fairness. It’s just bizarre you dismiss everything people have been sharing with actual links whereas we are supposed to take your word it didn’t happen. We have multiple spirc

How is it obvious ? I genuinely don't know which one you meant.

Messi scores some ridiculous dribbling goals but it's not like every goal of his especially nowadays is like that.

Ronaldo scores some of the all time best hanging headers, long range shots, bicycle kicks and freekicks. All that are arguably the all time best of each category. Almost forgot that first shot volley vs us for Juve.

Again I'm not sure who you're talking about I think personally both have incredible goals.

Is this a joke? I’d argue Messi’s header against united in the final was as iconic as any Ronaldo header. If you ran a completion of best goals of Messi vs Ronaldo Messi’s would be a lot more jaw dropping whereas Ronaldo’s would be mostly headers sprinkled in with penalties and that amazing bicycle kick against Juventus.

Messi’s goal against Bayern is also a lot more aesthetically pleasing than just about any Ronaldo goal

Hell, I’d take Messi’s long range goal against psg as better than long range goal Ronaldo has had in several years

 

[shamans]

Its common sense in fairness. It’s just bizarre you dismiss everything people have been sharing with actual links whereas we are supposed to take your word it didn’t happen. We have multiple spirc


Is this a joke? I’d argue Messi’s header against united in the final was as iconic as any Ronaldo header. If you ran a completion of best goals of Messi vs Ronaldo Messi’s would be a lot more jaw dropping whereas Ronaldo’s would be mostly headers sprinkled in with penalties and that amazing bicycle kick against Juventus.

Messi’s goal against Bayern is also a lot more aesthetically pleasing than just about any Ronaldo goal

Hell, I’d take Messi’s long range goal against psg as better than long range goal Ronaldo has had in several years

You are just genuine humor at this point. The fact you have to go this far just proves to me how threatened you are by Roanldo. Keep it coming

 

[Gehrman]

The one before this:


Right before 5:00 minute mark here is also a really good goal but that's how most of Messi's outside the box goals are. Again if you think that's better than Ronaldo's screamers that's your opinion but crazy to suggest all of these goals are just factually better than Ronald's long range ones.

I was joking. For once we can agree on something his first in this match was geniunely great though.

 

[shamans]

I was joking. For once we can agree on something

Spoiler

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

There are videos of this



Just going off their last season. What differentiates them I think is that apart from Ronaldo's headers other top strikers are capable of scoring his type of goals he scored last season. But Messi's look more complex to pull off. Its not just the dribbling but the weight of the touch, the angle, the goals seem mathematical

 

[Daysleeper]

You are just genuine humor at this point. The fact you have to go this far just proves to me how threatened you are by Roanldo. Keep it coming

Ronaldo is a phenomenal player, saw him in person play in Italy back in 2019 and he was a joy to watch. Amazing movement in the box.

but if we are comparing who has scored the more aesthetically pleasing goals then it’s definitely Messi all day, everyday

 

[shamans]

Ronaldo is a phenomenal player, saw him in person play in Italy back in 2019 and he was a joy to watch. Amazing movement in the box.

but if we are comparing who has scored the more aesthetically pleasing goals then it’s definitely Messi all day, everyday

In your opinion. It's not some fact.

 

[Zehner]

Bit ironic that the people who always accuse people who prefer Messi of just going by aesthetics now won't admit that he scores great goals more frequently. Anyway..

Of course not every goal from outside the box is a great goal. But I'm also sure all of us will agree that a goal from outside the box is more likely to be a great goal than a goal from inside the box. And while Messi scores a goal from outside the box every 12.9 games, Ronaldo does so every 18.9 ones. Obviously that's not the best metric to judge the "average greatness" of the goals of both players but it is the best we have right now. I'm also pretty sure that if we showed neutral observers every goal of both players and let them rate it on a scale from 1 to 10, Messi would have the higher average because the proportion of his generic goals is smaller than in Ronaldo's case.

So yeah, not every single one of Messi's 76 goals from outside the box were great one but I'm sure the vast majority was. And that's something Ronaldo has to compensate by his goals from within the box alone - and Messi also regularly scores beauties in that area. But that'll be my last post to this topic. I think this is very, very clear and won't be dragged further into this


--

Now generally regarding the goals: I prefer Ronaldo's overhead kicks, back heel finishes, airtime headers and solo goals over his extreme long range shots. Sure, the latter are the most spectacular and surprising but I always watch them with a grain of salt because I think that it was dumb to attempt it from such a big distance.

 

[Anto]

Ronaldo is still playing in the best leagues while the younger messi has his first club move and its to psg where his team are pretty much guaranteed silverware.
Its only really barca and messi fanboys scraping the bottom of the barrel for anything to put ronaldo lower than messi when its clear now who has the better 'goat' mentality.
Test yourself in the ultimate league or go take points from championship level teams and chill out with neymar and that rat di maria. Cant believe I just read someone saying messi scores even better headers ffs

 

[Daysleeper]

Ronaldo is still playing in the best leagues while the younger messi has his first club move and its to psg where his team are pretty much guaranteed silverware.
Its only really barca and messi fanboys scraping the bottom of the barrel for anything to put ronaldo lower than messi when its clear now who has the better 'goat' mentality.
Test yourself in the ultimate league or go take points from championship level teams and chill out with neymar and that rat di maria. Cant believe I just read someone saying messi scores even better headers ffs

Absolute joke of a post, how much silverware was Ronaldo guaranteed at Juventus? They dominated serie a more than psg dominated the French league (where psg didn’t even win the league last year)

and Ronaldo is obviously better at headers but Messi’s header against united was more iconic than any Ronaldo header.

 

[Gehrman]

Absolute joke of a post, how much silverware was Ronaldo guaranteed at Juventus? They dominated serie a more than psg dominated the French league (where psg didn’t even win the league last year)

and Ronaldo is obviously better at headers but Messi’s header against united was more iconic than any Ronaldo header.

Well tbf Juventus barely made top 4 last year.

 

[Anto]

Absolute joke of a post, how much silverware was Ronaldo guaranteed at Juventus? They dominated serie a more than psg dominated the French league (where psg didn’t even win the league last year)

and Ronaldo is obviously better at headers but Messi’s header against united was more iconic than any Ronaldo header.

So you think juve could go toe to toe with psg right now? even without messi psg would roll them over.

 

[DaGOAT]

So far in his career:



751 goals



315 assists



35 trophies



57 freekicks



55 hattricks



50 league goals in a season



73 goals all competitions in a season



91 goals in a year



30 or more club goals in last 13 seasons



8 Pichichi (top scorer in Spain)



6 European Golden Shoes



6 Ballon d'Or



6 FIFA Best Player



1 World Cup Golden Ball



2 UEFA Best Player



35 titles (some of the highlights are his 10 La Liga titles (vs Ronaldo’s mere 2 La Liga titles, 4 CL titles, one Copa America).



As for anyone worrying he is “over the hill”...



50 G+A in the calendar year 2021 so far with a Copa del Rey and a Copa America (in which he was top scorer and top assist maker). Currently the betting favourite to win his 7th(!) Ballon D’Or.


Better stat wise and trophy wise compared to Ronaldo this year.
No way in hell will Ronaldo win the Ballon D’Or this season, but Messi might.

 

[Gehrman]

So far in his career:



751 goals



315 assists



35 trophies



57 freekicks



55 hattricks



50 league goals in a season



73 goals all competitions in a season



91 goals in a year



30 or more club goals in last 13 seasons



8 Pichichi (top scorer in Spain)



6 European Golden Shoes



6 Ballon d'Or



6 FIFA Best Player



1 World Cup Golden Ball



2 UEFA Best Player



35 titles (some of the highlights are his 10 La Liga titles (vs Ronaldo’s mere 2 La Liga titles, 4 CL titles, one Copa America).



As for anyone worrying he is “over the hill”...



50 G+A in the calendar year 2021 so far with a Copa del Rey and a Copa America (in which he was top scorer and top assist maker). Currently the betting favourite to win his 7th(!) Ballon D’Or.


Better stat wise and trophy wise compared to Ronaldo this year.
No way in hell will Ronaldo win the Ballon D’Or this season, but Messi might.

Did you join the caf to post this over and over again?

 

[MrEleson]

35 titles (some of the highlights are his 10 La Liga titles (vs Ronaldo’s mere 2 La Liga titles, 4 CL titles, one Copa America).

Don’t understand the Ronaldo comparison considering the 10 la liga titles is over a span of 17 years vs. 9 for Ronaldo and he barely featured in his first 2 league wins.

Overall, It’s 7-8(10) in favour of Messi and Ronaldo has the added bonus of winning his across 3 different leagues.

 

[Daysleeper]

So you think juve could go toe to toe with psg right now? even without messi psg would roll them over.

Doesn’t matter if they could or couldn’t. This nonsense about Ronaldo joining for the “challenge” and his mentality is absolute rubbish when hardly any teams wanted him and Fergie had to save him from city ruining his united legacy. City also dominated the hell out of the epl in recent years.

Had psg called Ronaldo I’m sure he would have entertained the offer. There was nothing challenging or goat mentality about joining Juventus who won 8 serie a in a row and Ronaldo had them finishing fourth before he bailed on them. You are just forcing a narrative that isn’t there.

 

[Daysleeper]

Don’t understand the Ronaldo comparison considering the 10 la liga titles is over a span of 17 years vs. 9 for Ronaldo and he barely featured in his first 2 league wins.

Overall, It’s 7-8(10) in favour of Messi and Ronaldo has the added bonus of winning his across 3 different leagues.

winning a title with Juventus is meaningless much like winning the league with psg or Bayern

 

[Jericho]

That's just a ridiculous criteria only designed to make Messi look good, we could just as easily claim every headed goal is a great goal.

Definitely every header scored outside the box.

 

[mshnsh]

I think a fairly objective criteria is the puskas award for which Ronaldo has been nominated 2 times while Messi has been nominated a record 7 times.

But this forum has always been extremely biased towards Ronaldo. Arguing here in Messi or any other player's favour vs Cristiano is highly unlikely to go down well @Zehner. Alot of jilted lovers reunited with the love of their life.

 

[justboy68]

Absolute joke of a post, how much silverware was Ronaldo guaranteed at Juventus? They dominated serie a more than psg dominated the French league (where psg didn’t even win the league last year)

and Ronaldo is obviously better at headers but Messi’s header against united was more iconic than any Ronaldo header.

I'm with you on Messi having more great goals overall but Ronaldo's header against Roma was the most stupendous header I've ever seen. He literally wasn't in the tv shot when the ball was halfway into the box. I remember watching it live and I've never forgotten it.

 

[spiriticon]

Lads, it fecking Bolivia. They're as shite as Uzbekistan

I thought we were discounting all goals against shit teams when comparing the GOATS? What happened there?

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Ronaldo is still playing in the best leagues while the younger messi has his first club move and its to psg where his team are pretty much guaranteed silverware.
Its only really barca and messi fanboys scraping the bottom of the barrel for anything to put ronaldo lower than messi when its clear now who has the better 'goat' mentality.
Test yourself in the ultimate league or go take points from championship level teams and chill out with neymar and that rat di maria. Cant believe I just read someone saying messi scores even better headers ffs

So better mentality means better player now? Keane was better than Zidane then.