Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

AshRK

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Not really. He had lost the dressing room, so is almost impossible to come back from that. We were also all over the place tactically.



Need to disagree a bit here. Of course, the most important thing is the league position, & we all agree that wasn't very good. But I don't think you can just dismiss form from Xmas. I think by all metrics it shows we are performing better, creating more chances, scoring more goals, conceding less. If we had sacked Arteta after the Burnley defeat & got a new manager in & he got the same results as what Arteta has, you'd be saying that he'd have done a good job, no?
You are giving too much importance to some league games when there is zero pressure. It's similar to last season when some of you arsenal fans were upping arteta because he beat Liverpool in a meaningless game. His real task was to win the europa and you guys were deservingly knocked out.

I understand you want to back Arteta but let us not pretend as if he has salvaged himself because you guys won some games since Christmas. Some of the teams had nothing to play so winning some games at the end of season changes nothing.
 

Crashoutcassius

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In a way I find it hard to be critical of Arsenal for just giving a manager time. I'd say he really needs to get it right this season though, start well and do it when the pressure is on. He needs to kick on next year like Ole has this year. Ole has had the benefit of transformational signings, not clear that Arteta will get anything like that but the expectations are also much lower - kick on would mean being in the top 4 and staying there or there abouts all season.

I don't really want him to be a success but I like laughing at the guys that said he was top class while Ole was a PE teacher, but maybe ill get over that petty desire and find a way to root for him to do okay next season. I just personally find that whole pep school boring when there aren't players like iniesta to make it magic
 

mu4c_20le

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They didn't want europe, right? This suits them. Very important summer coming up.
 

ray24

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Should have been sacked multiple times throughout the season. The defeat to Burnley at home and the draw to Villarreal that eliminated us from the Europa League particularly spring to mind. The fact he hasn't been let go shows huge weaknesses in the hierarchy of the club. I have seen the stats where certain fans have taken certain sections of our form in the season to make it look better than it was. Having the second best form in the premier league since New Year means absolutely nothing when you finished 8th in the Premier League. Winning your last five games means nothing when you have just bottled a Europa League semi final to a team managed by the person you sacked a year earlier.

The problem is that there isn't much to say which is new about Arsenal. We have too many mediocre players. We need huge investment within the squad and a competent manager to spend it wisely. I see lots of posts saying we were wrong to get rid of Wenger but this misses the point. We may have got worse after Wenger left, but he was a big part of the initial slump which saw us drop out of Champions League football. He was unable to remedy the situation and I fully believe his time was up. What his departure exposed was how badly the club was run.
The problem is Arsenal needs a manager who can spot talents before they become too expensive for Arsenal. We need a manager that can not only spot talents that other clubs have missed out on, but also a manager who can maximise the best out of his players.

At the moment, there really isn't too many managers that can do that. I would say Bielsa is a good one, but he won't leave Leeds.
 

GoonerBear

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You are giving too much importance to some league games when there is zero pressure. It's similar to last season when some of you arsenal fans were upping arteta because he beat Liverpool in a meaningless game. His real task was to win the europa and you guys were deservingly knocked out.

I understand you want to back Arteta but let us not pretend as if he has salvaged himself because you guys won some games since Christmas. Some of the teams had nothing to play so winning some games at the end of season changes nothing.
Im not saying he's beyond criticism, like I said, the 8th place finish, going out to Villarreal, the start of the season form, the home form in general, all things he deserves criticism for. However, when I see improvements in certain aspects, i think it's only right to mention these as well.

And if you are talking form from Xmas, that's not some meaningless games at the end of the season, that's almost 2/3rds of a season. And you can't say the pressure was off, as if the form continued for a couple of weeks longer, he'd have lost his job.

He'll get the summer, he'll get a chance for more of his own players, & pressure will be massive on them to start the season well. If he starts the season like he did last, he'll be rightly out of a job.
 

AshRK

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Im not saying he's beyond criticism, like I said, the 8th place finish, going out to Villarreal, the start of the season form, the home form in general, all things he deserves criticism for. However, when I see improvements in certain aspects, i think it's only right to mention these as well.

And if you are talking form from Xmas, that's not some meaningless games at the end of the season, that's almost 2/3rds of a season. And you can't say the pressure was off, as if the form continued for a couple of weeks longer, he'd have lost his job.
He didn't lose his job after getting knocked out of europa, the only thing that mattered. He didn't lose the job after being in the bottom half of table , losing to burnley, wolves at home. What makes you think these games against Newcastle and West Brom determined whether he will stay or not. He was never going to be sacked even if he had lost 3 more games since getting knicked out of europa.
 

Amarsdd

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queue everyone and their mother predicting Arsenal to finish top 6 or even top 4 next season and having Arteta in the list of the managers to look out for/next season's possible elite managers citing Arsenal signing an expensive attacking player in the summer and this end of the season run of form.
 

SATA

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Wonder what his mate Tim Cahill was thinking bigging him up like the next Pep after they beaten us and Keane showed him exactly what he thought and Roy was absolutely right
 

GoonerBear

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He didn't lose his job after getting knocked out of europa, the only thing that mattered. He didn't lose the job after being in the bottom half of table , losing to burnley, wolves at home. What makes you think these games against Newcastle and West Brom determined whether he will stay or not. He was never going to be sacked even if he had lost 3 more games since getting knicked out of europa.
Im not talking about the games at the end of the season, I'm talking about if the bad run continued at Xmas time. If we lost to Chelsea at home & the 2 games after it vs Brighton & WBA say, we'd have likely had been in or just above the relegation zone. You don't think there was pressure in those games?

You're right, these end of season games after Villarreal didn't determine his job. It was already decided that he would get the summer. We all know he's not losing his job just now, so all we can do is see how he does in the summer & going into next season. Everything else is just noise.
 

Wiltord02

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Not really. He had lost the dressing room, so is almost impossible to come back from that. We were also all over the place tactically.



Need to disagree a bit here. Of course, the most important thing is the league position, & we all agree that wasn't very good. But I don't think you can just dismiss form from Xmas. I think by all metrics it shows we are performing better, creating more chances, scoring more goals, conceding less. If we had sacked Arteta after the Burnley defeat & got a new manager in & he got the same results as what Arteta has, you'd be saying that he'd have done a good job, no?
I would be open to giving a new manager more leeway if he had achieved the same results as Arteta as it wouldn't have been his team. However, a similar effort in the Europa to Arteta would be concerning. But the question is hypothetical and there are plenty of things that may or may not have happened if a new manager had come in.

As for performing better, I don't agree entirely. Obviously the results have improved but some of the football has been just as bad as the first half of the season. The Christmas/New Year run was good but some of the teams played into our hands. The Chelsea game was excellent, the Brighton game was a hardfought away win and we tonked a very poor West Brom side. When we came up against a defensive team in Palace, we were utterly dreadful and created virtually nothing. Newcastle tried the same but some poor defending from a corner allowed us to counter them and once we had the first goal, we were fine. I was most impressed by the Southampton game in this period as normally when we go 1-0 down to an early goal, we fold. Next we played United and whilst we had chances, this was again due to them being more open and trying to win the game. I remember Cavani missing quite a few which went in our favour.

Next game, we had a great 44 minutes against Wolves until individual errors started to creep in. Decisions went against us and we looked lost. We followed this up with an abysmal game away at Villa, devoid of quality and chance creation. A 4-2 win followed against Leeds and sounds convincing but their keeper had a nightmare and their playstyle again played into our hands. We did our best to throw the game away by still giving them plenty of chances. Next up was the most one sided 1-0 defeat I have ever seen. Man City played us off the park and we were lucky it was only 1-0. The energy is this performance was poor and we looked beaten from the start.

The next four games saw improved performances. The Leicester game, similar to Southampton away was very very good. An excellent managed win. However, we followed this up with more costly individual mistakes away at Burnley. Granted VAR screwed us in this game as well. We did well in the North London Derby for 80 minutes but nearly proceeded to gift Spurs something, even though they had 10 men. Again, we saw the good and bad sides of Arsenal the next week as we drew with West Ham 3-3. Individual errors and a lack of concentration by both teams. An absolute mess of a game that in some ways, we were lucky to get something from.

We then got pasted by Liverpool badly 3-0. The players looked like they weren't responding to the manager one bit. After that game, we were 10th in the league, seven points off Europa League and ten off the Champions League places. Our eyes were firmly on the Europa League matches. The last eight premier league matches have to be looked at in this context. We played a dreadful Sheffield who were all but relegated. Drew with an awful Fulham and even celebrated a late equaliser. Another catastrophic individual error then cost us the match against Everton. That said, this was another match where we again failed to create meaningful chances.

The last five "wins" can be summarised quickly. Newcastle looked like they were on holiday and happy not to do anything after an early Elneny goal. We beat West Brom fairly easily though this was to be expected. The Chelsea win was a complete gift thanks to Jorginho. In the Palace game, we had no shots on target between scoring in the 35th and 90th minutes. As for today, a pretty standard win today in an end of the season fixture with nothing on it. This end of season form gave us fifteen points and landed us quite close to the European positions. It makes us look like we were in a tight race when in reality, all the eggs were in the Europa League basket.

In some of the games since Xmas, we have performed very well. But we have also had some very poor performances combined with some shocking individual errors. Even in some games where we had won, I came away thinking the opposition had gifted us the games as opposed to us dominating and earning relatively comfortable results. Absolutely, the post Xmas form has been better, but what came before it meant this wasn't too difficult to achieve.
 
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Djemba-Djemba

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Done the thing all shite managers seem able to do which is perform when the pressure is off.

5 league wins to end the season sounds impressive but it's less impressive when you realise they were all meaningless games after they'd fecked up their domestic season months earlier. Plus in the middle of their winning run in the league they managed to get outplayed and knocked out of Europe.

I find it staggering Arteta has led Arsenal to consecutive 8th placed finishes and yet he seems very secure in his job.

Good for Arsenal's rivals though I suppose.
 

rotherham_red

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This myth that Wenger shouldn't have been let go needs to stop. He actually stayed in the job too long and started the decline. He went from 2nd, to 5th, to 6th - he took the club out of the CL two years in a row, starting this downwards spiral.

He should have left in 2015 after back to back FA Cups with the club still in the CL. It'd have been much better for his replacement and there may have been better options available.

That the board have made a mess of the appointments since does not mean he should have stayed (even then, Emery's first season was actually a marked improvement on Wenger's last).

The whole structure put in place over the past few years has been a mess and that started when Kroenke finally got full control of the club. We're finished. It's no longer a football club. It's a merchandise and stadium access company that dabbles in football. Winning football matches is no longer part of the plan.

At least the Glazers care about winning football matches.
It's not so much that he should have stayed, it's how downright disrespectful so many of your fans were towards him (he's on record as saying he wouldn't like to go back to the Emirates because of how bad it had gotten). He, along with Dein, almost singlehandedly brought that club into the modern era, as well as driving up the standards across the league. The man also did a pretty good job in hindsight with a pretty unremarkable set of players, getting CL football almost every year. Like you say, Ozil and Sanchez' arrivals were probably the time for him to go, as he proved that he couldn't push beyond top 4 even with top quality players at his disposal, but he still deserved more respect than he had received from so many among your fanbase.
 

Zen86

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This myth that Wenger shouldn't have been let go needs to stop. He actually stayed in the job too long and started the decline. He went from 2nd, to 5th, to 6th - he took the club out of the CL two years in a row, starting this downwards spiral.

He should have left in 2015 after back to back FA Cups with the club still in the CL. It'd have been much better for his replacement and there may have been better options available.

That the board have made a mess of the appointments since does not mean he should have stayed (even then, Emery's first season was actually a marked improvement on Wenger's last).

The whole structure put in place over the past few years has been a mess and that started when Kroenke finally got full control of the club. We're finished. It's no longer a football club. It's a merchandise and stadium access company that dabbles in football. Winning football matches is no longer part of the plan.

At least the Glazers care about winning football matches.
It’s a shame how people like Kroenke can come in and dismantle English football institutions. I’m surprised how little sympathy many United fans have considering our own troubles. That said, Kroenke does trump the Glazers in the rubbish owner stakes.
 

Jezpeza

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Done the thing all shite managers seem able to do which is perform when the pressure is off.

5 league wins to end the season sounds impressive but it's less impressive when you realise they were all meaningless games after they'd fecked up their domestic season months earlier. Plus in the middle of their winning run in the league they managed to get outplayed and knocked out of Europe.

I find it staggering Arteta has led Arsenal to consecutive 8th placed finishes and yet he seems very secure in his job.

Good for Arsenal's rivals though I suppose.
Games against Newcastle, West Brom, Chelsea, Palace and Brighton. You’d expect 12 points there as a minimum anyway. I was furious we dropped points in some of those fixtures.
 

André Dominguez

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Lego Pep :lol:

Pretty sure he's off by now. The rebuild would be acceptable if there were no funds invested, but the transfer sheet suggests otherwise.
 

romufc

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Remember the time when Ole didn't criticse the board and every Ole Out fan was screaming puppet, Glazer Puppet...

Arteta speaks up about the owners, finishes 8th and is given a free ride.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Done the thing all shite managers seem able to do which is perform when the pressure is off.

5 league wins to end the season sounds impressive but it's less impressive when you realise they were all meaningless games after they'd fecked up their domestic season months earlier. Plus in the middle of their winning run in the league they managed to get outplayed and knocked out of Europe.

I find it staggering Arteta has led Arsenal to consecutive 8th placed finishes and yet he seems very secure in his job.

Good for Arsenal's rivals though I suppose.
I don't understand it. It's as if Arsenal have accepted mid table mediocrity. You put your faith in genuine potential not the shit Arteta has been serving up. Arsenal should be challenging for much higher places than this, and this season should have been Arteta's litmus test. Instead he seems to have gotten a free pass this season with next year being the first real one. And it's hardly as though their football is good to watch as well. They mostly play functional tumescent football
 

crossy1686

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Arsenal are fecked, way more fecked than United were. The only way to fix this mess is to spend about £1b this summer. They need about 5 seasons of solid rebuild before they're anywhere near the top 4 again.
 

WeePat

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The problem for Arsenal is that the bar has been lowered so much in the last decade, that if Arteta finishes 5th or 6th next season that's a decent season for them, perhaps even a really good one.

I don't know what ambitions Arsenal have at this point. I know what the fans want, but what is the club itself aiming for. They seem be just fine with slumming it in midtable obscurity.
 
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M Bison

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Wonder what his mate Tim Cahill was thinking bigging him up like the next Pep after they beaten us and Keane showed him exactly what he thought and Roy was absolutely right
That punditry was gold, Cahill was gushing about Arteta at the time and Keane wasn't happy and rightly pushed back. He who laughs last... :lol:
 

crossy1686

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The problem for Arsenal is that the bar has been lowered so much in the last decade, that if Arteta finishes 5th or 6th next season that's a decent season for them, perhaps even a really good one.

I don't know what ambitions Arsenal have at this point? I know what the fans want, but what is the club itself aiming for. They seem be just fine with slumming it in midtable obscurity.
I do love the "lowering of expectations" chat people throw out as if everyone here is super successful at all expects of their life due to their elite mentality.

There's nothing decent in that Arsenal squad, it's like a jigsaw puzzle from 5 different boxes, nothing fits. I'm sure the club and the fans want to be successful, they want CL and to win a PL I would imagine, they spend money like they want those things but realistically, they're light years away from dislodging a team like Leicester, and you could even see Leeds over take them next year with a good summer.

None of that has anything to do with expectations, it's bad recruitment, bad planning and piss poor management at the top of the club. I'd be surprised if any manager there didn't turn around at some point and publicly say "Have you seen this lot? Don't expect much..."

Fans who hammer clubs for lowering expectations are just creating a toxic environment for all involved. It happened at United the other season also, people were so upset about being told the team was shit they forgot to actually look at the team and realise it was shit.
 

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Some nonsense on this thread. Need £1 Billion worth of investment.....light years behind Leicester etc. Its funny as Leicester didn't need £1 Billion worth of investment to compete, & Arsenal with an absolute disaster of a first part of a season finished 5 points behind this fantastic Leicester team.

They need a good window, targeting the right players & that gives them attributes they lack, not necessarily the most expensive players. They also need a good manager to get the best out the players, that may or may not be Arteta, we'll see next season.
 

Forevergiggs1

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Some nonsense on this thread. Need £1 Billion worth of investment.....light years behind Leicester etc. Its funny as Leicester didn't need £1 Billion worth of investment to compete, & Arsenal with an absolute disaster of a first part of a season finished 5 points behind this fantastic Leicester team.

They need a good window, targeting the right players & that gives them attributes they lack, not necessarily the most expensive players. They also need a good manager to get the best out the players, that may or may not be Arteta, we'll see next season.
A good window? This has to be the worst Arsenal squad I've seen in the last 40 years. People can knock Arteta all they want but I don't think any manager in the world would of got Arsenal top 4 this season. Saka and Smith Rowe are your 2 standouts but it's still early days for them. I'd maybe take one of them to United but that's as far as it goes. Last seasons Auba no chance, Lacazette no chance, Pepe way too hit and miss, none of your defenders or none of your midfielders and we have some serious holes of our own. At todays prices £500m is needed just to get yourselves cemented into top 4 again never mind winning the league.
 

GoonerBear

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A good window? This has to be the worst Arsenal squad I've seen in the last 40 years. People can knock Arteta all they want but I don't think any manager in the world would of got Arsenal top 4 this season. Saka and Smith Rowe are your 2 standouts but it's still early days for them. I'd maybe take one of them to United but that's as far as it goes. Last seasons Auba no chance, Lacazette no chance, Pepe way too hit and miss, none of your defenders or none of your midfielders and we have some serious holes of our own. At todays prices £500m is needed just to get yourselves cemented into top 4 again never mind winning the league.
We see war chest stuff like this all the time, & often the reality is different. Up here it was going to take Rangers £75M - £100M to topple Celtic up in Scotland, & in the end they beat them, in 1 game with a midfield that cost £50k.

Did Leicester & West Ham have to spend £500M to spend a lot of the season in top 4? I'm not talking about the title, as Man City have the best manager in the world with the most money & that combination will be a nightmare for all clubs to topple, but the top 4 certainly isn't insurmountable like you suggest.
 

GifLord

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We see war chest stuff like this all the time, & often the reality is different. Up here it was going to take Rangers £75M - £100M to topple Celtic up in Scotland, & in the end they beat them, in 1 game with a midfield that cost £50k.

Did Leicester & West Ham have to spend £500M to spend a lot of the season in top 4? I'm not talking about the title, as Man City have the best manager in the world with the most money & that combination will be a nightmare for all clubs to topple, but the top 4 certainly isn't insurmountable like you suggest.
But that's Scotland if it's not Celtic it's Rangers and vice versa. In EPL you have 5-6 teams battling for top 4 with some of them having unlimited funds. You had no UCL for what 4-5 years? You'll be lucky if you have 50-60mil to spend this season
 

GoonerBear

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But that's Scotland if it's not Celtic it's Rangers and vice versa. In EPL you have 5-6 teams battling for top 4 with some of them having unlimited funds. You had no UCL for what 4-5 years? You'll be lucky if you have 50-60mil to spend this season
What about the 2nd paragraph where speak about Leicester & West Ham?
 

GifLord

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What about the 2nd paragraph where speak about Leicester & West Ham?
Leicester have a balanced team while WHU fluked it this season next season they probably won't even make top8. You spent 175mil€ net spend last 2 seasons and you were most of the time just barely making top 10
After 5 matchdays - 6th
After 10 matchdays - 14th
After 20 matchdays - 10th
After 30 matchdays - 10th

edit:
compared to last season Good Ebening/LegoTeta
After 5 matchdays - 7th
After 10 matchdays - 5th
After 20 matchdays - 12th
After 30 matchdays - 10th
 
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AshRK

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I understand Arsenal don't have a squad to win the title or even challenge for it but their squad is also not that bad to be 8th-10th. A better manager would do a better job even with this squad. It's a difficult job but not an impossible one.
 

Knux

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They keep spending ridiculous money on attackers when they’ve had so many holes to fill defensively for the last 10 years. They can sign Haaland and Mbappé but would struggle even then.

And when they finally spend money on defenders it’s Tierney and Luiz. Not exactly top 4 material. It’s avarage players all over that back 4 and midfield.

I can’t understand it. So many promising CB’s and DM’s in Europe in the £30-50 mill region but they rather sign Pepe and Partey for £100m+. Shocking.