Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

[GoonerBear]

Here we go again, criticising the strategy Arsenal have decided to implement.

It's not to hide or protect the manager, we are a football club, we aren't Arteta FC FFS.

Everyone accepts that we have spent a fair bit money over the latter Wenger years & Emery's reign, & everyone accepts that we've spent it fairly poorly. We've bought players that we've constantly not been able to turn a profit on, on high wages, & even worse we've had to pay a lot of them off, all while performances have dropped. How can you remain self sufficient if that was the result of your strategy?

So, we changed strategy, to sign younger, more hungry players, that can grow & hit their peak together, but not only that, they tend to fit better into a wage structure & will still have value in the market when they leave. We've not reinvented the wheel, lots of clubs do it. Clubs like Leicester get praised for their transfer strategy, yet we are using it as an excuse to hide behind a manager?

 

[Cascarino]

When we fail to create enough chances for Ronaldo then it’s a problem. We’re obviously not playing well as a team. Likewise teams who fail to stop the opposition creating good chances.

Yeah but the point is about their defense getting opened up with ease. There's always a lot of gap between their defense and midfield lines which they exploited. Arsenal did well in attack but were poor at the back.

It's not ideal to allow the opposition goalscoring opportunities but Leicester away is always a tricky fixture even with their troubles this season. First half Arsenal got their two goals and went on the defensive and secured the clean sheet. It's not something that can be relied upon over a season but Arteta is quite good at edging out close games to claim a narrow victory. I didn't think White and Ramsdale would be worth the money when they were purchased this summer but they've had a good impact, 4 of the back 5 arrived this summer so it's not going to perfect.

I think some of the comments in this thread writing him off early in his tenure stemmed from him getting a much easier ride than Solskjaer, who was treated pretty disrespectfully by the media. But he took over a side in freefall in desperate need of an overhaul, he's spent big this summer and this is the season where he should be judged. The board would have been fully aware of this, and while I'm sure the FA cup win gave him a little credit (I don't think it means much in terms of progress) I think the board expected his first season to be shaky, they've backed him this summer and we're only a few months into his second full season.

 

[Moby]

It's not ideal to allow the opposition goalscoring opportunities but Leicester away is always a tricky fixture even with their troubles this season. First half Arsenal got their two goals and went on the defensive and secured the clean sheet. It's not something that can be relied upon over a season but Arteta is quite good at edging out close games to claim a narrow victory. I didn't think White and Ramsdale would be worth the money when they were purchased this summer but they've had a good impact, 4 of the back 5 arrived this summer so it's not going to perfect.

I think some of the comments in this thread writing him off early in his tenure stemmed from him getting a much easier ride than Solskjaer, who was treated pretty disrespectfully by the media. But he took over a side in freefall in desperate need of an overhaul, he's spent big this summer and this is the season where he should be judged. The board would have been fully aware of this, and while I'm sure the FA cup win gave him a little credit (I don't think it means much in terms of progress) I think the board expected his first season to be shaky, they've backed him this summer and we're only a few months into his second full season.

Yeah, they have a few tricky fixtures lined up. Let's see how they cope up at Anfield next/

On a side note, it genuinely fills me with happiness watching Arsenal fans 'hoping' to finish 6th right now and considering that a success after mocking Wenger and the whole 'top 4 is a trophy' joke. Couldn't have happened to a nicer fanbase.

 

[Cascarino]

Yeah, they have a few tricky fixtures lined up. Let's see how they cope up at Anfield next/

On a side note, it genuinely fills me with happiness watching Arsenal fans 'hoping' to finish 6th right now and considering that a success after mocking Wenger and the whole 'top 4 is a trophy' joke. Couldn't have happened to a nicer fanbase.

Yeah it'll be tough for them, and it'll be a good sign of where this side is mentally. Confidence is up and they've had a kind fixture list, it'll be interesting to see how they'll manage the next set.

The treatment Wenger got was shocking, him and Ferguson are both iconic to me and are big factors in why I wanted to coach football. Even if supporters were desperate for him to go this was someone who had dedicated himself entirely to the cause, and deserved to be treated with more respect.

 

[ThierryFabregas]

Yeah but the point is about their defense getting opened up with ease. There's always a lot of gap between their defense and midfield lines which they exploited. Arsenal did well in attack but were poor at the back.

We dominated the early going and then parked the bus when 2 up. I'll take 'poor at the back', yet keeping a clean sheet any day of the week. Ultimately when you go 2 up you can afford to close up shop and limit the quality of chances the opposition have. We've only conceeded 4 in the last 10 games using this strategy. It's not the prettest to watch but 3 points is 3 points.

Liverpool and United games will bring new challenges to us ofcourse. United seem to be particularly leaky at the back this season

 

[ThierryFabregas]

The treatment Wenger got was shocking

I agree with this and I can tell you the fanbase was very much split on this. I was Wenger In until the end but even I do have to admit Wenger didn't quite move with the times though with both his recruitment and tactics. He bought allot of expensive players in their prime who turned out to be duds

 

[Moby]

We dominated the early going and then parked the bus when 2 up. I'll take 'poor at the back', yet keeping a clean sheet any day of the week. Ultimately when you go 2 up you can afford to close up shop and limit the quality of chances the opposition have. We've only conceeded 4 in the last 10 games using this strategy. It's not the prettest to watch but 3 points is 3 points.

You know life's come a full circle when you start embracing the exact same thing that you mocked clubs like Chelsea for over a decade, while being the beacon of 'The Beautiful Game'. Yes I know that's what you need right now but it is honestly, satisfying to the point that I cannot describe in words!

 

[Cascarino]

I agree with this and I can tell you the fanbase was very much split on this. I was Wenger In until the end but even I do have to admit Wenger didn't quite move with the times though with both his recruitment and tactics. He bought allot of expensive players in their prime who turned out to be duds

Yeah I shouldn't have implied it was all the fanbase are even the majority, just that perceptions are often set by a few bad actors, especially in football. And I can definitely understand why a lot wanted him gone, I felt he was working under constraints but also a lot of the issues Emery and Arteta inherited did stem from his squad building. I would have been Wenger in but when someone has been such a staple as he has it's hard to say goodbye to them, even if they don't manage the club I support. The Ferguson vs Wenger time was one of my favourite footballing periods, it had everything.

 

[ThierryFabregas]

You know life's come a full circle when you start embracing the exact same thing that you mocked clubs like Chelsea for over a decade, while being the beacon of 'The Beautiful Game'. Yes I know that's what you need right now but it is honestly, satisfying to the point that I cannot describe in words!

I'm not a fan of it. But I don't think this team is capable of dominating games in the way we may have done so in earlier years. This is a team that was regularly conceeding 20+ shots a game against the likes of Watford before Arteta took over. Building from the back has always made sense in management. The great sides all tend to have a great back 5.

 

[GoonerBear]

Speaking of Wenger, there was a special screening of the Invincible film last night with Wenger & David Dein on stage, pics look great, especially the last picture with Cesc.

 

[ThierryFabregas]

Yeah I shouldn't have implied it was all the fanbase are even the majority, just that perceptions are often set by a few bad actors, especially in football. And I can definitely understand why a lot wanted him gone, I felt he was working under constraints but also a lot of the issues Emery and Arteta inherited did stem from his squad building. I would have been Wenger in but when someone has been such a staple as he has it's hard to say goodbye to them, even if they don't manage the club I support. The Ferguson vs Wenger time was one of my favourite footballing periods, it had everything.

The constraints were definitiely up until say the mid 2010s. I think he did an amazing job selling his best players every. The problem was when there was money we spent it poorly. It was brewing in terms of squad building for a long time. Partly because of under investment in years prior, partly due to all our best players reaching a time past their prime and partly from buying average players when we needed top draw ones.

I think Wenger got every last bit out of Alexis and Ozil. He let Ozil have a free role without defensive responsibility. When the new managers came in and asked Ozil to track back he couldn't play as well. IMO he plays better under Wenger allowing him the freedom, while lesser players carry his water.

New Wenger quote: “Highbury? My soul. The Emirates? My suffering,” I really do believe losing his best players every year, not getting investment and the abuse towards the end broke him abit and it's why he hasn't been back since.

 

[trims]

Tottenham were at an all time low when you played them. They even managed to lose to us. Your one and only creditable result in that run was beating Leicester, who kicked your arse for the vast majority of that game.

What does that even mean?

If we scrape top 4 or top 6 by 2 points at the end of the season, do we get deducted the points we got from Watford because it wasn’t “credible”?

The teams on that list make up half of the premier league.

 

[TJ Reid]

Here we go again, criticising the strategy Arsenal have decided to implement.

It's not to hide or protect the manager, we are a football club, we aren't Arteta FC FFS.

Everyone accepts that we have spent a fair bit money over the latter Wenger years & Emery's reign, & everyone accepts that we've spent it fairly poorly. We've bought players that we've constantly not been able to turn a profit on, on high wages, & even worse we've had to pay a lot of them off, all while performances have dropped. How can you remain self sufficient if that was the result of your strategy?

So, we changed strategy, to sign younger, more hungry players, that can grow & hit their peak together, but not only that, they tend to fit better into a wage structure & will still have value in the market when they leave. We've not reinvented the wheel, lots of clubs do it. Clubs like Leicester get praised for their transfer strategy, yet we are using it as an excuse to hide behind a manager?

I think the Academy deserves credit for developing ESR, Saka and AMN so not just buying youth but producing it’s own

 

[TJ Reid]

What does that even mean?

If we scrape top 4 or top 6 by 2 points at the end of the season, do we get deducted the points we got from Watford because it wasn’t “credible”?

The teams on that list make up half of the premier league.

Sometimes decisions go for you, sometimes they don’t. True for all teams.

 

[TJ Reid]

Tottenham were at an all time low when you played them. They even managed to lose to us. Your one and only creditable result in that run was beating Leicester, who kicked your arse for the vast majority of that game.

A somewhat one eyed version of that match, though as confirmation bias goes, that’s up there with the best of them. In fact, the only team I can remember recently having its arse handed to it on a plate by Leicester at the King Power was…now let me see…Newton Heath Descendants?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

A somewhat one eyed version of that match, though as confirmation bias goes, that’s up there with the best of them. In fact, the only team I can remember recently having its arse handed to it on a plate by Leicester at the King Power was…now let me see…Newton Heath Descendants?

Is that a funny? You’re trying to be funny? Poor effort. 4/10.

 

[TJ Reid]

Is that a funny? You’re trying to be funny? Poor effort. 4/10.

3/10 for the poor Joe Pesci effort

 

[Powderfinger]

Ramsdale made a couple of crazy saves in the first half as well, Leicester definitely came very close to scoring and would have scored if not for the keeper pulling off those saves.

In the first half, they were saves off low percentage shots or sequences that weren't indicative of bad defending. Ramsdale made a great save from Iheanacho shooting from outside the box, another great save on Maddison's free kick, and then got over to keep out Evans' point blank follow up toe poke after saving the free kick.

Leicester had an XG of 0.08 until the Maddison free kick, Evans follow up sequence that came at the 42nd minute. Leicester really created nothing from open play all half.

In the second half they put us under a lot more pressure but we were defending a lead and basically letting them have the ball. Arsenal need to learn how to do that more effectively - we definitely dropped too deep and became too passive. But the overall pattern of play in that half was very much a product of one team having a two goal lead.

 

[Moby]

In the first half, they were saves off low percentage shots or sequences that weren't indicative of bad defending. Ramsdale made a great save from Iheanacho shooting from outside the box, another great save on Maddison's free kick, and then got over to keep out Evans' point blank follow up toe poke after saving the free kick.

Leicester had an XG of 0.08 until the Maddison free kick, Evans follow up sequence that came at the 42nd minute. Leicester really created nothing from open play all half.

In the second half they put us under a lot more pressure but we were defending a lead and basically letting them have the ball. Arsenal need to learn how to do that more effectively - we definitely dropped too deep and became too passive. But the overall pattern of play in that half was very much a product of one team having a two goal lead.

Yeah that's a fair assessment and Leicester definitely attacked more in the second half, but even in the first half after the goals they did start coming at Arsenal, and were getting space outside the box where they got the free kick as well. Those are low percentage shots, but in this context it would be considered dangerous play given Leicester have players like Maddison and Tielemans who are good shooters from range, so even if the big save was from a free kick, it was a tactical error to allow them space and fouls in that area.

If you listen to Klopp after the WHU game, they worked on not giving WHU any set pieces given how dangerous they are from free kick and corners, obviously they failed and they conceded twice from corners, but from a coaching/tactics standpoint, they should have broken Leicester attacks earlier or diverted it out wide and not allow shots/fouls in central areas.

 

[Powderfinger]

Yeah that's a fair assessment and Leicester definitely attacked more in the second half, but even in the first half after the goals they did start coming at Arsenal, and were getting space outside the box where they got the free kick as well. Those are low percentage shots, but in this context it would be considered dangerous play given Leicester have players like Maddison and Tielemans who are good shooters from range, so even if the big save was from a free kick, it was a tactical error to allow them space and fouls in that area.

If you listen to Klopp after the WHU game, they worked on not giving WHU any set pieces given how dangerous they are from free kick and corners, obviously they failed and they conceded twice from corners, but from a coaching/tactics standpoint, they should have broken Leicester attacks earlier or diverted it out wide and not allow shots/fouls in central areas.

Yup, I would agree with that. Arsenal have a young team and its something they really need to improve. In this recent run, we have too often gone from high press and playing a million miles an hour to playing too passively, defending too deep, and struggling to get out. We need to learn how to exert more control on matches in which we are leading, falling back a bit but only into an aggressive midblock rather than a passive low block.

 

[MO_Football92]

The constraints were definitiely up until say the mid 2010s. I think he did an amazing job selling his best players every. The problem was when there was money we spent it poorly. It was brewing in terms of squad building for a long time. Partly because of under investment in years prior, partly due to all our best players reaching a time past their prime and partly from buying average players when we needed top draw ones.

I think Wenger got every last bit out of Alexis and Ozil. He let Ozil have a free role without defensive responsibility. When the new managers came in and asked Ozil to track back he couldn't play as well. IMO he plays better under Wenger allowing him the freedom, while lesser players carry his water.

New Wenger quote: “Highbury? My soul. The Emirates? My suffering,” I really do believe losing his best players every year, not getting investment and the abuse towards the end broke him abit and it's why he hasn't been back since.

We had plenty of quality players in the squad post 2013 when there was more money to spend. The main issue back then was injuries.

 

[Ayoba]

Fair play to Lego pep, he's done well and you have to say he's clearly better than Ole. He's won a trophy, implemented a style of play despite having considerably less resources than Ole.

 

[Redfrog]

There was no top 6 during Fergie era and no we didn't win by smashing just weaker teams. We did well against strong teams too.

Smashing small teams is bred and butter to win the league, and we rarely used to concede points against this teams. That’s called to be consistent you know.

That’s not saying we were bad against big teams. But we hardly had an impressive record against them either. We could be smashed at Old Trafford by Liverpool and still win the league.

The season we lost 1-6 against city, we just went on an impressive run of 1-0 after that and finished the same number of points as City (throwing the league this season by the way…).

Consistency was key with the feeling you have to win every game against inferior opposition, and make them feel they were inferior.
It never happened after Fergie and that’s why we did not win the league.

 

[wolvored]

I cant see how any Utd fan can rubbish another teams efforts, with the shit fest we are producing

 

[gajender]

Smashing small teams is bred and butter to win the league, and we rarely used to concede points against this teams. That’s called to be consistent you know.

That’s not saying we were bad against big teams. But we hardly had an impressive record against them either. We could be smashed at Old Trafford by Liverpool and still win the league.

The season we lost 1-6 against city, we just went on an impressive run of 1-0 after that and finished the same number of points as City (throwing the league this season by the way…).

Consistency was key with the feeling you have to win every game against inferior opposition, and make them feel they were inferior.
It never happened after Fergie and that’s why we did not win the league.

Fun fact we only ever lost once with margin of more than a goal at Old Trafford against Liverpool in PL and we actually won more then them at Anfield as well in Pl under SirAlex .

Infact Chelsea were the only team who were able to go toe to toe against United during PL under Sir Alex and that was the case even before they became force under Abramovich.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Fair play to Lego pep, he's done well and you have to say he's clearly better than Ole. He's won a trophy, implemented a style of play despite having considerably less resources than Ole.

You really don't. On the whole, beyond a stringy series of results, which could very much go tits up over the coming games, there's nothing that really suggests this.

 

[Loon]

So, the inevitable Arsenal boom period is fully in effect?

 

[roonster09]

Smashing small teams is bred and butter to win the league, and we rarely used to concede points against this teams. That’s called to be consistent you know.

That’s not saying we were bad against big teams. But we hardly had an impressive record against them either. We could be smashed at Old Trafford by Liverpool and still win the league.

The season we lost 1-6 against city, we just went on an impressive run of 1-0 after that and finished the same number of points as City (throwing the league this season by the way…).

Consistency was key with the feeling you have to win every game against inferior opposition, and make them feel they were inferior.
It never happened after Fergie and that’s why we did not win the league.

That happened only few times, we didn't get smashed all the time. The post I quoted said "We never won the league beating big clubs" that's nonsense. We had good record in big games and won against all teams.

 

[Redfrog]

That happened only few times, we didn't smashed all the time. The post I quoted said "We never won the league beating big clubs" that's nonsense. We had good record in big games and won against all teams.

Fair enough, didn’t read the post you were responding to.

 

[Hansi Fick]

Whichever way you look at it, Arteta is easily and by far a better manager than Ole despite Ole being in the job a full 12 months longer and having spent a lot more. The only thing saving Ole is that he is a United legend, but as a manager he is totally clueless. Results don't lie.

I was not talking about Solskjaer at all. I did not mention him once. This is the thread about Arteta. I don't care about Ole, leave me alone with your Ole.

Arteta was hired to manage an Arsenal that had moved on from Wenger as he couldn't win the title anymore, was more or less disappointing in the CL knockout stages and ended up finishing 5th once after two decades of top 4, often top 2, finishes.
Arteta had no previous record as manager and what he achieved in his career so far is finishing fecking 8th twice, with an Arsenal squad that saw heavier investment than Wenger had been granted in his last decade. And now Arsenal are supposed to be happy that, if things go really well, they might finish 5th or 6th? CL knockout stages? Getting thrashed by Bayern? Oh the memories..
Arsenal deserve better and must demand better.

 

[Cascarino]

The Arsenal squad he inherited was awful, Emery had done well to get 5th, but they were incredibly luck to do so. At the end of the season they picked up 7 points from 21, and carried that form into the next season where in their opening 17 games, they had won 5, drew 7 and lost 5. They were in the bottom half of the table when Arteta took over.

I said all this at the time

It's why the board have kept faith when everyone was calling for his head. They were fully aware of how difficult it was going to be to turn this side around, especially as they had to wait until this summer to overhaul the squad. The problems were severe and when you look back through this thread, I find it weird how so few people took these issues into account when judging him. Even now we're only a few months into his second full season and there are posters calling him utterly shite etc

As I posted above, people massively overestimated the side he took over, I mean if you look at their recent run not a single player from his back 5 was here when he took over.

Ole did have to overhaul the squad, but even with that caveat it was superior to the Arsenal one, if you asked people on here at the time I'm sure 99% would vote in favour of the United side. Add on to that being given 200m to spend in his first summer and it's a completely different job in terms of rebuilding a side.

I agree that there's no merit to that last sentence, but I think the notion that the jobs Arteta and Ole took on were comparable is definitely untrue imo, and as posted above I argued that at the time. It's why posts like these

Simply ignore all context of the side that he took over. And now that he's been given money this summer and the club is looking more consistent as we go a couple months into his second full season it just feels that a lot of these evaluations were either unaware of the difficulties of the job or just dismissed them.

People keep mentioning the finishing 8th thing twice, the first time he didn't take over the job until halfway through the season, where he improved on the points tally and picked up the FA cup. In his first full season he did finish 8th, 6 points off 4th while having a squad widely recognised as in desperate need of an overhaul. He managed to make two signings, one of which Partey spent significant amounts of the season out injured. Some of you have spent so many posts in here mocking and ridiculing him that if he does end up a success I'm scared for your sanity.

 

[Cascarino]

On reconsideration, 2 points per game over the season, 76 points, usually gets you into top 4 rather comfortably, so that might be a tad high as a bare minimum target.

Looking at those first 10 games, I do think that's the average you must get in those, there's a lot of lower table opponents = must win games in there, on top of big games of which a couple have a special relevance.
But I will maybe correct it down to 18 points. But then, there's no excuses.

Brentford (A) - 3
Chelsea (H) - 1
City (A) - 0
Norwich (H) - 3
Burnley (A) - 3
Spurs (H) - 1
Brighton (A) - 1
Palace (H) - 3
Villa (H) - 3
Leicester (A) - 0

or

Brentford (A) - 3
Chelsea (H) - 0
City (A) - 0
Norwich (H) - 3
Burnley (A) - 3
Spurs (H) - 3
Brighton (A) - 1
Palace (H) - 3
Villa (H) - 1
Leicester (A) - 1

Something like that. Anything worse, he should be sacked right away.

Palace at home I have as an absolute must win. There's a few things you cannot afford to have happen as a manager. Like Moyes could not afford to lose at home to Everton, Arteta certainly must beat a Vieira-coached Palace.

So he's got 6 points from the first 5 games, in order to reach the 18 points from 10 games benchmark we set as a bare minimum, he needs 12 points, or 4 wins from the next 5 games. It's not impossible..

Sure, losing the NLD at home would be very bad. And then you already lost to Chelsea at home.
I mean you don't have to convince me, I'd replace Arteta yesterday. But in terms of points, he could still reach our benchmark which with 1.8 points per game isn't actually very low. And ultimately, points matter most.

I don't think you'll lose against Spurs though. That game has draw written all over it. And then I don't see you beating all of Brighton, Palace, Villa and Leicester either.

10 points after 7 games - 3 wins needed to reach the target.

So tonight is a must win game not merely for the symbolics

Arteta getting a lucky break with the absence of Zaha..

I don't understand it. You've constantly posted over the last few days that he needs to be sacked, which while I find a very confusing opinion we're all entitled to our own. Yet we see here that he passed all of your criteria. If you set this as the requirement and he met it, why do you think he should be sacked?

 

[gajender]

People keep mentioning the finishing 8th thing twice, the first time he didn't take over the job until halfway through the season, where he improved on the points tally and picked up the FA cup. In his first full season he did finish 8th, 6 points off 4th while having a squad widely recognised as in desperate need of an overhaul. He managed to make two signings, one of which Partey spent significant amounts of the season out injured. Some of you have spent so many posts in here mocking and ridiculing him that if he does end up a success I'm scared for your sanity.

But What would constitute a successful season for Arsenal under Arteta because there seem to be a quite discrepancy between people who rate Arteta as manager and people who don't idea of success.

 

[Cascarino]

What would constitute successfull season for Arsenal under Arteta because there seem to be quite discrepancy between people who rate Arteta as manager and people who don't .

It’s got to be top 6, while pushing for a fourth spot. It’s been clear throughout his time at Arsenal what he’s been trying to do, and the important thing is that he and the team continue to progress.

His first season was getting to grips with the squad and Identifying who needed to go and also finding replacements to bring in the season after. This season he’s bought in a new back line after being backed in his squad overhaul, it’s about integrating everybody in and getting the team competitive.

The target is top 6th, but I think he’ll get 4th

The discrepancy comes from people vastly underestimating the difficulty of the job when he took over. It’s why the board was patient when the people in here were losing their minds.

 

[gajender]

It’s got to be top 6, while pushing for a fourth spot. It’s been clear throughout his time at Arsenal what he’s been trying to do, and the important thing is that he and the team continue to progress.

His first season was getting to grips with the squad and Identifying who needed to go and also finding replacements to bring in the season after. This season he’s bought in a new back line after being backed in his squad overhaul, it’s about integrating everybody in and getting the team competitive.

The target is top 6th, but I think he’ll get 4th

The discrepancy comes from people vastly underestimating the difficulty of the job when he took over. It’s why the board was patient when the people in here were losing their minds.

That's fair enough I just don't see it with him unless top 4 is another crap shoot with Sub par total of like 66 points they won't be making it and you are giving far too much credit to Arsenal's Board when it's not even clear that their gamble is even close to paying off.

 

[Hammondo]

I was not talking about Solskjaer at all. I did not mention him once. This is the thread about Arteta. I don't care about Ole, leave me alone with your Ole.

Arteta was hired to manage an Arsenal that had moved on from Wenger as he couldn't win the title anymore, was more or less disappointing in the CL knockout stages and ended up finishing 5th once after two decades of top 4, often top 2, finishes.
Arteta had no previous record as manager and what he achieved in his career so far is finishing fecking 8th twice, with an Arsenal squad that saw heavier investment than Wenger had been granted in his last decade. And now Arsenal are supposed to be happy that, if things go really well, they might finish 5th or 6th? CL knockout stages? Getting thrashed by Bayern? Oh the memories..
Arsenal deserve better and must demand better.

Why do they deserve better?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Why do they deserve better?

For the reasons outlined in his post. He was hired to get better results than they used to get under Wenger and has been heavily backed financially. He hasn’t even been getting better results than Wenger’s succesors!

 

[Cascarino]

That's fair enough I just don't see it with him unless top 4 is another crap shoot with Sub par total of like 66 points they won't be making it

A lot will depend on United. Player for player they're a better side, and if their season switches it'll be much more difficult. If the season does end up a write-off for United this will make things a lot more open.

They've done very well to bounce back from their three defeats in a row, I think because they were missing players they had that confidence to bounce back and a pretty kind fixture list has allowed them to hit their stride and build up some belief. The next period will tell us a lot about this side, not necessarily just in terms of points gained, but in terms of how they approach the games, and their reactions if they wobble. This Arsenal side still has a lot of unknown qualities, a new backline this summer and players like smith rowe and Saka, 20 and 21 who are already so important to the side.

6th will be the target, but I think they're going to get 4th (repeating myself for no apparent reason)

and you are giving far too much credit to Arsenal's Board when it's not even clear that their gamble is even close to paying off.

I agree that it's not clear, but it wasn't clear a few months into Arteta's reign that he was a disaster/failure and it didn't stop this thread being filled with thousands of posts writing him off and ignoring all context. I'm not necessarily giving the board credit, I'm just highlighting that they were fully aware of the problem. Arteta was bought into stabilise the side and overhaul the squad.

We're only a few months into his second full season, he's only been backed this summer to overhaul the squad. He's spent big and he's targeted young hungry players, as well as cementing Smith Rowe and Saka as pivotal players. The judgement in this thread was far too pre-emptive, and while I don't think he's doing an amazing job, I can't really understand the comments being made now about being terrible or utterly shite. We have a poster who set the criteria for what he needed to do this season, and after Arteta met those requirements he ignored what he had posted and demanded that the Arsenal supporters deserve better and he should be sacked

 

[GoonerBear]

For the reasons outlined in his post. He was hired to get better results than they used to get under Wenger and has been heavily backed financially. He hasn’t even been getting better results than Wenger’s succesors!

He's been heavily backed financially this summer only really. So if you are using that to judge him, you need to see how it plays out.

 

[Hammondo]

For the reasons outlined in his post. He was hired to get better results than they used to get under Wenger and has been heavily backed financially. He hasn’t even been getting better results than Wenger’s succesors!

But his opposition have been spending more also, so it's a bad comparison. The competition now is just a lot higher than when Wenger was last here.