Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

[Balotelli's Bib]

Currently 2 points off Liverpool in 4th. After our start I'm ecstatic. We've had a comfortable run so far and play Liverpool away next which to me is a free hit. Not expecting a result in their back yard at all.

A clear structure is also starting to surface and I really pray that it'll show some reward for a young team which has worked it ass off. Completely different to the players we've seen over the last few seasons which wouldn't give a rats toss bag for the shirt.

Credit to Arteta. But let's get on with it now and see if the implemented structure holds and yields results consistently.

Hope you're all having a great weekend.

 

[Che Guevara]

Arteta finished twice in a row 8th. They've been absolutely diabolical at times to watch. If it wasn't for the covid empty seat stadiums im almost 100% he'd have be sacked last year. Stop with this reactionary shit. Why not wait a few months before going on about how amazing? This reactionary stuff on this forum is hilarious to watch at times. Imagine he finishes 8th again?

He won 2 trophies, a fact that you conveniently avoid talking about, and an achievement which easily surpasses that of the vast majority of PL managers. Even previously critical Arsenal fans are increasingly warming up to him. Arsenal may not be playing pretty football most the time, but diabolical to watch? Jeez, which Arsenal are you watching? After the disastrous first 3 matches, he has picked up more points than any other PL manager including Tuchel and Pep, and that's what matters in foitball. Klopp finished 8th in his first full season at Liverpool, same as Arteta, so that's hardly a sackable offence. There is absolutely no chance he will be sacked anytime soon.

 

[roonster09]

2 trophies

 

[AshRK]

He won 2 trophies, a fact that you conveniently avoid talking about, and an achievement which easily surpasses that of the vast majority of PL managers. There is absolutely no chance Arteta will be fired anytime soon. You may not like him but many Arsenal fans are increasingly warming up to him. After the disastrous first 3 matches, he has picked up more points than any other PL manager including Tuchel and Pep. Klopp finished 8th in his first full season at Liverpool, same as Arteta, so that's hardly a sackable offence.

Klopp did not finish 8th in his first full season. He finished 4th. Also, what's with Arteta and Ole defenders, comparing them to Klopp. I can't stand Liverpool but Klopp is in a different galaxy as a manager in comparison to Ole and Arteta.

 

[GifLord]

He won 2 trophies, a fact that you conveniently avoid talking about, and an achievement which easily surpasses that of the vast majority of PL managers. Even previously critical Arsenal fans are increasingly warming up to him. Arsenal may not be playing pretty football most the time, but diabolical to watch? Jeez, which Arsenal are you watching? After the disastrous first 3 matches, he has picked up more points than any other PL manager including Tuchel and Pep, and that's what matters in foitball. Klopp finished 8th in his first full season at Liverpool, same as Arteta, so that's hardly a sackable offence. There is absolutely no chance he will be sacked anytime soon.

And was absolute shit after that

 

[Dancfc]

He won 2 trophies, a fact that you conveniently avoid talking about,

He won one, the professional soccer aid is not a trophy.

As for the actual trophy, yeah nice moment in isolation but on that basis why don't they employ Harry Redknapp as he won an FA Cup, with Portsmouth......

After the disastrous first 3 matches, he has picked up more points than any other PL manager

The fact that the "he's here and here if the season starts at X moment" has to be constantly rolled out says everything in itself.

 

[Che Guevara]

Klopp did not finish 8th in his first full season. He finished 4th. Also, what's with Arteta and Ole defenders, comparing them to Klopp. I can't stand Liverpool but Klopp is in a different galaxy as a manager in comparison to Ole and Arteta.

Noted, but the out-of-this-world Klopp started in October and finished 8th and won nothing else, whilst rookie Arteta started end of December and won the FA Cup less than 5 months later.

 

[NoPace]

He won 2 trophies, a fact that you conveniently avoid talking about, and an achievement which easily surpasses that of the vast majority of PL managers. Even previously critical Arsenal fans are increasingly warming up to him. Arsenal may not be playing pretty football most the time, but diabolical to watch? Jeez, which Arsenal are you watching? After the disastrous first 3 matches, he has picked up more points than any other PL manager including Tuchel and Pep, and that's what matters in foitball. Klopp finished 8th in his first full season at Liverpool, same as Arteta, so that's hardly a sackable offence. There is absolutely no chance he will be sacked anytime soon.

They had to rebuild their entire XI basically and Saka, Smith-Rowe, the 2 CB signings and Tomiyasu, Tavares and Ramsdale are all playing well, which is the most important thing. Sambi Lokonga and Maitland-Niles are doing okay. They're probably not going to get top 4 this year, but only Odegaard and Tierney are struggling at the moment among the players young enough to matter for their rebuild. So yeah, I can't imagine he'll be in trouble unless they really really struggle.

That said, they've only scored 13 goals in 11 games so I don't think they're gonna get up to much this year and will probably finish like 6th or 7th.

 

[jakko]

They had to rebuild their entire XI basically and Saka, Smith-Rowe, the 2 CB signings and Tomiyasu, Tavares and Ramsdale are all playing well, which is the most important thing. Sambi Lokonga and Maitland-Niles are doing okay. They're probably not going to get top 4 this year, but only Odegaard and Tierney are struggling at the moment among the players young enough to matter for their rebuild. So yeah, I can't imagine he'll be in trouble unless they really really struggle.

That said, they've only scored 13 goals in 11 games so I don't think they're gonna get up to much this year and will probably finish like 6th or 7th.

You could argue that some f those signings he didn't have to make. He let go better players than he brought in.
He let go of Emi Martinez and replaced him with a weaker GK although Ramsdale has done well.
Let go of Guendouzi and replaced him with Sambi.
And instead of buying Ben White, he could of given Saliba a chance.

 

[Lord SInister]

Klopp compared to Arteta
Yes Arteta was miles better as a player and definitely looks far better than the ugly sack of teeth that is Klopp, but as a manager and tactician, he is not even in the next two levels.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

If he got second like ole he would be crowned the greatest manager on earth by media

 

[GoonerBear]

If he got second like ole he would be crowned the greatest manager on earth by media

Probably, so why dont you guys think Ole is?

 

[Powderfinger]

You could argue that some f those signings he didn't have to make. He let go better players than he brought in.
He let go of Emi Martinez and replaced him with a weaker GK although Ramsdale has done well.
Let go of Guendouzi and replaced him with Sambi.
And instead of buying Ben White, he could of given Saliba a chance.

Guendouzi is a clown who goes wherever he wants on the pitch and doesn’t have the talent to justify it, no manager with a disciplined tactical vision would want him in the side. Tuchel would have binned him off within minutes. Saliba is super talented but still very raw. He could not have done what White is currently doing. Arguably we should have kept him for better depth but a loan is also what he probably needed as a player.

Arteta has made mistakes but these aren’t among them.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Guendouzi is a clown who goes wherever he wants on the pitch and doesn’t have the talent to justify it, no manager with a disciplined tactical vision would want him in the side. Tuchel would have binned him off within minutes. Saliba is super talented but still very raw. He could not have done what White is currently doing. Arguably we should have kept him for better depth but a loan is also what he probably needed as a player.

Arteta has made mistakes but these aren’t among them.

And Xhaka is a clown who constantly gets himself sent off. Arteta made him captain. Guendozi needed proper coaching and guidance, not being given up and replaced by inferior players.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Probably, so why dont you guys think Ole is?

Because there’s a clear disparity in the quality of the two squads, despite the fact that you’ve spunk away as much money as us over the last few years.

 

[GoonerBear]

Because there’s a clear disparity in the quality of the two squads, despite the fact that you’ve spunk away as much money as us over the last few years.

I'd also suggest that it's not the 2nd place finish he gets criticised for, it's the cup exits, the European results and the poor start to this season.

 

[AshRK]

Probably, so why dont you guys think Ole is?

Because we do realise he is not. Ole in fact is the most abused manager so he will never have that privilege that Arteta will get from the media.

 

[GoonerBear]

Because we do realise he is not. Ole in fact is the most abused manager so he will never have that privilege that Arteta will get from the media.

Ole is the most abused by some quarters while at the same time being the most protected by others quarters.

 

[AshRK]

Ole is the most abused by some quarters while at the same time being the most protected by others quarters.

Yes. He has his friends in Scholes, Neville, Rio who will back him but even them will not call him a top manager. And then there is other side of media who never gave him any sort of credit even when United finished 3rd and 2nd. And now with the poor form he is back to being a cheer leader and the worst manager to manage a team.

 

[GoonerBear]

Yes. He has his friends in Scholes, Neville, Rio who will back him but even them will not call him a top manager. And then there is other side of media who never gave him any sort of credit even when United finished 3rd and 2nd. And now with the poor form he is back to being a Ole Ole Ole I love you and the worst manager to manage a team.

The other problem is your size, your expectations, your revenue, your squad, your demands, are all at a different level to Arsenal's. So the 2 managers won't get judged the same.

Most weren't critical of Ole for coming 2nd, as that was progress. The main criticism has now come because there has been a regression despite further investment in the squad.

 

[Hansi Fick]

Noted, but the out-of-this-world Klopp started in October and finished 8th and won nothing else, whilst rookie Arteta started end of December and won the FA Cup less than 5 months later.

You're trolling, aren't you? Can't take you seriously, sorry.

 

[Che Guevara]

You could argue that some f those signings he didn't have to make. He let go better players than he brought in.
He let go of Emi Martinez and replaced him with a weaker GK although Ramsdale has done well.
Let go of Guendouzi and replaced him with Sambi.
And instead of buying Ben White, he could of given Saliba a chance.

Maybe. But imo Ramsdale is definitely a better keeper than Martinez. Arteta had a problem with Guendouzi after the BHA match and the rift was never healed so he had to let go. As for Saliba the jury is still out so we can't say yet if he was right to dump him., though I tend to agree that he shd at least first give him a chance in the team. Nevertheless, Ben White has struck a brilliant partnership with Gabriel and the results show.

 

[Che Guevara]

You're trolling, aren't you? Can't take you seriously, sorry.

Those are the facts.

 

[Che Guevara]

Klopp compared to Arteta
Yes Arteta was miles better as a player and definitely looks far better than the ugly sack of teeth that is Klopp, but as a manager and tactician, he is not even in the next two levels.

Nobody said Arteta is at Klopp's level managerially, but the fact remans that in their first PL seasons they both finished 8th and Arteta won a trophy whilst Klopp won nothing.

 

[GifLord]

Is it reactionary if that very poster has defended Arteta over the last two years and made arguments about how poor the squad was etc. He was arguing the case long before the recent good run.

That same squad finished 5th in PL under Unay just a few months before. So this argument is kinda bs

 

[trims]

That same squad finished 5th in PL under Unay just a few months before. So this argument is kinda bs

The squad he inherited was sitting in 11th place with a negative goal difference and only 5 wins after 18 PL games. So yes, it was a poor squad.

 

[Cascarino]

That same squad finished 5th in PL under Unay just a few months before. So this argument is kinda bs

I've spoken about Emery's tenure a few times in this thread. He did very well to get 5th, which isn't that much of a surprise because he's a good manager. But that side went into utter freefall and is not a fair reflection of the squad.

That Arsenal side was poor, and the xg reflects this. This side constantly outperformed their expected performance. They finished with around 70 points, and I think 59 was what their expected total was. It's only one metric of many, but it really does reflect what was in front of our eyes. For shots per game they were 10th, and for shots faced they were 10th. These stats in a vacuum don't mean anything, but when watching that side you knew that this was a side that needed massive work. Aubameyang was in his pomp and his goals masked over what was a very ordinary side. A backline of Leno, Mustafi, Sokratis, Monreal (actually a decent little player but in his mid 30s at this point) and Bellerin was never going to last long under scrutiny. Which brings me to the other part.

Stats never tell a full story, but with the benefit of hindsight we can gather something from the results, with the decline starting towards the end of the 18-19 season. But here's the run of form preceding Arteta taking over

LWLLLDWWWLDDWDWLDDLDDDWL

The form was staggeringly bad, and I truly think the limitations of the squad had caught up. People can and will have different opinions on the job Arteta is doing, but the one thing I can promise you is that whoever came in was going to have to overhaul that squad if they wanted to get anywhere.

 

[GifLord]

The squad he inherited was sitting in 11th place with a negative goal difference and only 5 wins after 18 PL games. So yes, it was a poor squad.

This is how the table looked when Unai got sacked

 

[Cascarino]

This is how the table looked when Unai got sacked

interim manager,

 

[GifLord]

interim manager,

Yeah and those results are on Freddie. Just like the past 2 seasons results are on Arteta.
They've barely been creating chances under him. I very much doubt that's on the players.

 

[trims]

This is how the table looked when Unai got sacked

This how it looked when Arteta took over, the football we were playing under Unai with that team in 2019/2020 was diabolical.

 

[Cascarino]

Yeah and those results are on Freddie. Just like the past 2 seasons results are on Arteta.
They've barely been creating chances under him. I very much doubt that's on the players.

When you say past two seasons, doesn't it seem kind of weird to use him taking over at the end of December as a season? I notice a lot of posts mentioning he finished 8th twice and it doesn't really tell the full story.

And yeah, they will need to create more if they want to sustain their form, especially over a full season.

 

[Daydreamer]

When you say past two seasons, doesn't it seem kind of weird to use him taking over at the end of December as a season? I notice a lot of posts mentioning he finished 8th twice and it doesn't really tell the full story.

And yeah, they will need to create more if they want to sustain their form, especially over a full season.

If you want to bash Arteta it's convenient to bring up that he finished 8th twice - context be damned.

I can't speak for all Gooners, but I'm net positive on him. I really want us to stop trying to sit on leads. We've gotten away with it recently, but we're not set up to do that long-term. We'll shift the last of the deadwood this Summer as we've got quite a few contracts expiring. Some positions have two good options (GK / LB), but others have a real drop in quality when the first choice are unavailable.

Top 4 might be possible this year as United / Spurs / Leicester all seem to be struggling with both results and performances. Hopefully we can nick a spot and attract quality players in the window. With such a young squad, even just two experienced additions could make a huge difference. My choice would be CM and CF.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Probably, so why dont you guys think Ole is?

I think people think ole is worse than he is and that arteta is better than he is, constantly looking for results (or anything at all, an expression on their face for example) to validate their view.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

I think people think ole is worse than he is and that arteta is better than he is, constantly looking for results (or anything at all, an expression on their face for example) to validate their view.

Man Utd and Arsenal have different expectation for the season and completely different resource available to the clubs. It doesn't matter which manager is better, it only matters if the manager is right for the club. Ole's team is performing below expectation this season so the fans and pundits are not happy. On the other hand Arteta is still challenging for a top 6 finish so Arteta is spared, for now. I doubt anyone will say Ole or Arteta are world class managers and at the same level with Pep and Klopp. Arteta is only 39 and a rookie manager.

 

[NoPace]

You could argue that some f those signings he didn't have to make. He let go better players than he brought in.
He let go of Emi Martinez and replaced him with a weaker GK although Ramsdale has done well.
Let go of Guendouzi and replaced him with Sambi.
And instead of buying Ben White, he could of given Saliba a chance.

Saliba will be back and he's doing well on loan, so I don't see that as a bad thing.

Guendouzi it sounds like his attitude was bad and he's immature but he's definitely got talent so I'd probably dock Arteta there for not finding a way to reach him.

Choosing Leno over Emi Martinez looks like an error, and Ramsdale coming in just gets it back to neutral at best.

I'm not assuming Arteta has chosen this player, I'm saying that if most of your young core players are developing that's what's important when you've got a club that hasn't cracked the top 4 in 5 seasons. Same as if the core young guys here were playing really well at the moment it would certainly help the case for Ole getting the rest of the season, but they're floundering like everyone else.

 

[ariveded]

It's silly season, and if Arsenal beats LFC this Sunday, they go above them. So much about their early struggles, he has done the work well.

And this is probably the best Arsenal team going to Anfield in recent years. It shouldn't be their annual trashing at that stadium, expect competitive game this time. Klopp on the other hand, deserves greater scrutiny....

 

[ESR10]

Martinez plays with Argentine. So he travels far away and you see the problem. With the same level of performances, a club will always prefer a European international player than a player who goes overseas.

 

[Powderfinger]

Saliba will be back and he's doing well on loan, so I don't see that as a bad thing.

Guendouzi it sounds like his attitude was bad and he's immature but he's definitely got talent so I'd probably dock Arteta there for not finding a way to reach him.

Choosing Leno over Emi Martinez looks like an error, and Ramsdale coming in just gets it back to neutral at best.

I'm not assuming Arteta has chosen this player, I'm saying that if most of your young core players are developing that's what's important when you've got a club that hasn't cracked the top 4 in 5 seasons. Same as if the core young guys here were playing really well at the moment it would certainly help the case for Ole getting the rest of the season, but they're floundering like everyone else.

The Emi Martinez situation was unfortunate but people commonly misrepresent the facts of what happened. Emi gave the club an ultimatum - make me the unquestioned #1 (ie, he didn't want to compete with Leno for the job) or sell me. This was after about two months of sterling performances but also from a guy who had been a backup keeper his whole career and was known to be prone to errors. And Leno had been Arsenal's player of the season the year beforehand and actually was pretty good that season before getting hurt as well. Leno also was still hurt that summer and so selling him wasn't an option.

It wasn't a simple matter of choosing Leno over Martinez, it was more like:

(1) Make Martinez the unquestioned #1, leaving a very pissed off and fairly popular Leno to stew on the bunch while setting the precedent that certain players could just demand to have starting places without needing to compete, and probably not have the funds to buy Thomas Partey.

(2) Sell Martinez and have the funds to buy Partey.

 

[Klopper76]

This how it looked when Arteta took over, the football we were playing under Unai with that team in 2019/2020 was diabolical.

We were such a juggernaut back then.