Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

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What are your expectations for ETH can I ask? What goals / finishes do you expect of him next season & the season after?
My expectation will depend on what happens this summer. If there are limited incoming transfers and a large number of outgoings, i would expect the first few months to be a big learning curve with a lot of volatility in results. 6th would be acceptable.

If he gets a lot of players in then i would hope for top 4. In 2-3 years, we should
be challenging again. However, that will depend on the resources provided to ETH and other structural improvements made to the organization. We seem to be finally laying the foundation to be able to head in the right direction, and while this is encouraging, sometimes it takes time to turn such a juggernaut around.
 

Pogue Mahone

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What are your expectations for ETH can I ask? What goals / finishes do you expect of him next season & the season after?
I’d like to see ETH improve on our points haul this season. Which would basically match Arteta’s current total.

Not sure what that means in terms of league finish. Could well be outside top four. It’s rare enough to have two big clubs have seasons as bad as us and Spurs did this season. Plus feck knows what Newcastle will do this summer…
 

awop

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I’d like to see ETH improve on our points haul this season. Which would basically match Arteta’s current total.

Not sure what that means in terms of league finish. Could well be outside top four. It’s rare enough to have two big clubs have seasons as bad as us and Spurs did this season. Plus feck knows what Newcastle will do this summer…
So if you get 10 more points and finish 5th with that squad upgraded with 100/150M in the summer you'll be satisfied ? If you class this season as a rare anomaly, and you thought you'd be challenging for top 3 this year, surely that's your target for next season.
 

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Lego pep was laughed at badly during the beginning of the season.

Somehow he has shithoused it all the way to fourth. Kudos.
 

Pogue Mahone

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So if you get 10 more points and finish 5th with that squad upgraded with 100/150M in the summer you'll be satisfied ? If you class this season as a rare anomaly, and you thought you'd be challenging for top 3 this year, surely that's your target for next season.
Yes.

Have you watched us this season?!?

ETH also has a much tougher rebuild job than most coaches because of same absolute feckology over player contracts etc in recent years.

I always look for within season improvements anyway. If we start off poorly but finish strongly that’s a very good sign. Throwing away a bunch of easily winnable points in April was an Ole specialty and would be a red flag.
 

Hughie77

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He may get 4th, and that's still a maybe, he's had no Europen football out of both cups early doors, Spurs and Utd have been abysmal this season, that's the reason they pip 4th otherwise they be 7th or 6th. Next season we see how they go with Europen games. And his antics with VAR monitor and ref should have been punished.
 

ThierryHenry14

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Spurs and Utd have been abysmal this season, that's the reason...
This excuse never gets old. Actually it can be used for any team who win the league title, Cup title, CL, and even world cup. I can also say Arsenal has been abysmal since 2004.
 

mathrait

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The excuse that Spurs and Utd have been poor gets brought up to play down where he's gotten Arsenal so far this season, but the fact is, if he manages to sneak into 4th with the likes of Elneny, Tavares, Soares and Nkietieh, he'll be nothing short of a miracle worker.
 

GoonerBear

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He may get 4th, and that's still a maybe, he's had no Europen football out of both cups early doors, Spurs and Utd have been abysmal this season, that's the reason they pip 4th otherwise they be 7th or 6th. Next season we see how they go with Europen games. And his antics with VAR monitor and ref should have been punished.
1 cup early doors, made the semi of the league cup & got put out by Liverpool remember.
 

MUnchies

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The excuse that Spurs and Utd have been poor gets brought up to play down where he's gotten Arsenal so far this season, but the fact is, if he manages to sneak into 4th with the likes of Elneny, Tavares, Soares and Nkietieh, he'll be nothing short of a miracle worker.
Miracle worker? The players you named have barely featured all season. It’s not like they were integral part of your starting eleven all season. Nketiah, Soares, Elneny weren’t getting games till what, 5 games ago? and even that you lost 3 in a row somewhere in between.
 

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While I do believe Arteta has improved Arsenal over last 2,5 years there, I thought they were poor both games against us this season. At Old Trafford we beat them, at Emirates with more luck I think we would've taken at least a point and we're basically a broken team at this stage.
This is absolutely true. We were trash in both those matches.

Overall, with Arteta you can't just look at the point total or the finish, you need to look at the big picture stuff as well.

Arsenal were in much worse shape when he took over than United are now. We had a lot of the same cultural problems in terms of playing power and entitlement in the dressing room, with a far less talented group of players and some truly poisonous characters. We had almost no high level young talent on the first team roster, a bunch of players with overpriced contracts that couldn't be moved (especially once Covid hit), and an ownership group that wasn't interested in sanctioning any spending. And we were even more screwed up at board level, no real footballing brains in the operation and being led by a bona fide crook in Raul Sanllehi, who was thick as thieves with superagents and likely working kickback schemes. The atmosphere among supporters was 100% poisonous as well.

Its not just that Emery had us around 10th in the table, its that we absolutely deserved to be there, and given everything else going on in the club it wasn't looking like a momentary blip. We had no plan at all for getting back into the top 4-5, no elite young first team players to really build around, no manager to build a team, and no sporting directors to bring in the right players or manager.

Now we have:

-A very promising core of 9-10 likable young players who seem fully invested in the manager's project and are all on reasonable wages.
-A very thin roster, but we have played some very good stuff, at a very high tactical level, when we have our best 11 on the pitch at the same time.
-A complete transformation in the attitudes of match going supporters, who are overwhelmingly positive about the club.
-A sensible and revamped club management structure that seems pretty functional in terms of recruitment, work between first team and academy, etc.
-An owner who completely believes in Arteta/Edu, to the extent that he has been willing to sanction a lot of spending to back their vision and will do so again this summer.

It will be massive for Arsenal if we can finish 4th this year and very disappointing if we don't, given the opportunity. But all of this stuff is 10x more important in the long run than whether we finish 4th or 5th in a single season. Whether Arteta can take Arsenal to the next level is a totally open question and you can reasonably argue that he might not be the guy to do it. But Arteta and Edu together have basically pulled the club back from the brink and, unless you're one of the miserable bastards that are overrepresented on Twitter and elsewhere online, made it actually fun to support the club again.
 

Becks00

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This is one of the major issues I have with Arsenal fans, they get too jumpy way too soon. Already counting 4th place finish for the season like it's sealed already. You'd do well to remember Arsenal is a team that just lost 3 in a row to a bunch of midtable teams and are perfectly capable of losing another 3 on the trot. In fact I would not be surprised if they pick just 5 points from the remaining 15 they have to play for.

As regards Arteta, one thing the whole Ole episode has taught me and I am sure majority of the United fan base is never to count your eggs before they hatch. Ole finished top four two seasons in a row and as with Arteta there was the same narrative about how young our squad is, how we were building towards something with Martial, Greenwood and Rashford. Sancho to join those three, Bruno and Pogba behind, Awb the best thing since slice bread and yet it all came to nothing, in fact Ole even finished 2nd in the same time frame Arteta as now spent in Arsenal. You would think Arsenal fans of all people would know all about false dawns.
 

MO_Football92

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He may get 4th, and that's still a maybe, he's had no Europen football out of both cups early doors, Spurs and Utd have been abysmal this season, that's the reason they pip 4th otherwise they be 7th or 6th. Next season we see how they go with Europen games. And his antics with VAR monitor and ref should have been punished.
Arsenal's form from the second half of last season suggested they could easily challenge for top four this campaign, nothing to do with no European football and we actually got to the semi-finals of the league cup. Next season squad rotation will be easier with the new signings incoming.
 

GoonerBear

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This is one of the major issues I have with Arsenal fans, they get too jumpy way too soon. Already counting 4th place finish for the season like it's sealed already. You'd do well to remember Arsenal is a team that just lost 3 in a row to a bunch of midtable teams and are perfectly capable of losing another 3 on the trot. In fact I would not be surprised if they pick just 5 points from the remaining 15 they have to play for.

As regards Arteta, one thing the whole Ole episode has taught me and I am sure majority of the United fan base is never to count your eggs before they hatch. Ole finished top four two seasons in a row and as with Arteta there was the same narrative about how young our squad is, how we were building towards something with Martial, Greenwood and Rashford. Sancho to join those three, Bruno and Pogba behind, Awb the best thing since slice bread and yet it all came to nothing, in fact Ole even finished 2nd in the same time frame Arteta as now spent in Arsenal. You would think Arsenal fans of all people would know all about false dawns.
Have you even read the posts on here, especially the good post before yours by Powderfinger? No-on has said we'll finish 4th for sure, in fact a few have still said it's 50/50 with Spurs.

As for false dawns, again as far as I can see, no-one is claiming this is going to be the start of an era where we'll cement top 4 and go on to challenge City & Liverpool. Everyone knows how hard it is, how hard the competition is, how much we still need to do. People are just outlining the strategy we've taken, & how there seems to be a different atmosphere around the club and actually at the games because they have a group of players they can relate to & finally have a board & management structure that seems to be working to a plan.

As for Ole, he did a good job for a couple of seasons, if Arteta did similar that would be classed as a big success. Perhaps his downfall was in buying players the likes of Ronaldo & Varane he went away from the strategy Utd were taking under him & he lost power & control of the dressing room.

However, you guys seem so obsessed with him that all the young managers managing their former clubs seem to be compared to him....Lampard, Arteta, even on the Xavi thread he's being called their Ole. It's strange.
 

Red the Bear

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Over time my evaluation of areteta has varied considerably but I feel that I now have a more tempered view after 2/5 years.
He basically is doing the right job ( youth, controlling player power, shipping out deadwood , Implementing a coherent style etc etc) but he simply isn't good enough and never will be, he's also extremely over his head.
Arsenal will be probably better off after he leaves compared to when he came so not that bad I guess.
 

Flexdegea

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The excuse that Spurs and Utd have been poor gets brought up to play down where he's gotten Arsenal so far this season, but the fact is, if he manages to sneak into 4th with the likes of Elneny, Tavares, Soares and Nkietieh, he'll be nothing short of a miracle worker.

Miracle worker :lol: :lol: :lol:


Damn top 4 really is a trophy again, insane the hype he and arsenal are getting. Yous are going to get your highest finish not really on this excellent job he is doing.
 

ThierryHenry14

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Over time my evaluation of areteta has varied considerably but I feel that I now have a more tempered view after 2/5 years.
He basically is doing the right job ( youth, controlling player power, shipping out deadwood , Implementing a coherent style etc etc) but he simply isn't good enough and never will be, he's also extremely over his head.
Arsenal will be probably better off after he leaves compared to when he came so not that bad I guess.
I am not sure whether he is good enough for arsenal but at least for now the board thinks he is and that's what matters. Player comes and goes, and it is the same for manager. Vieira is doing a great job with Palace so may be he will be tempted to be head coach of Arsenal in the future.
 

Red the Bear

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I am not sure whether he is good enough for arsenal but at least for now the board thinks he is and that's what matters. Player comes and goes, and it is the same for manager. Vieira is doing a great job with Palace so may be he will be tempted to be head coach of Arsenal in the future.
It's a very risky job, it could ruin your career if you don't win things, look at emery a great coach who's reputation got dragged through the mud.
But we'll see, teta might actually do pretty decently in the league next season.
 

Hughie77

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Arsenal's form from the second half of last season suggested they could easily challenge for top four this campaign, nothing to do with no European football and we actually got to the semi-finals of the league cup. Next season squad rotation will be easier with the new signings incoming.
OK. We see
 

Hughie77

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This excuse never gets old. Actually it can be used for any team who win the league title, Cup title, CL, and even world cup. I can also say Arsenal has been abysmal since 2004.
Agree the good times are gone, Arteta sack next season, watch this space.
 

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Yep still out though.
Of course, but that wasn't the point in my reply, I don't class a semi final early doors. Utd played 4 extra games than Arsenal this season, although of course we didn't have to worry about the European travel.
 
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Maluco

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Arsenal's form from the second half of last season suggested they could easily challenge for top four this campaign, nothing to do with no European football and we actually got to the semi-finals of the league cup. Next season squad rotation will be easier with the new signings incoming.
There would have to be some amount of signings! Both number 9s are leaving and you are one injury away from playing Cedric, Tavares, Elneny and Holding.

I think the young attacking midfielders are very exciting, but the squad is as shallow as it gets. You are a good 5-6 players away from a CL squad. Do you think there will be money in the summer?
 

ThierryHenry14

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There would have to be some amount of signings! Both number 9s are leaving and you are one injury away from playing Cedric, Tavares, Elneny and Holding.

I think the young attacking midfielders are very exciting, but the squad is as shallow as it gets. You are a good 5-6 players away from a CL squad. Do you think there will be money in the summer?
I personally don't think there will be a lot of money available for transfer and wages given the current state of the economy, inflation, the war, and the increase of the cost of living. I am afraid the EPL TV broadcast money will not go up forever. Arteta as a head coach however he needs to live with the players he has on hand and deliver the best result he can, as long as the board's expectation is realistic. A guarantee top 4 finish every season is not realistic for Arsenal head coach.
 

Red the Bear

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No one expect Leeds, West Ham or Brighton head coach to win anything. There are other ways to measure the success of a head coach.
Your not leeds, ham or Brighton for gods sake, your arsenal as shit as you may have become you lot still carry the name of arsenal, the third best team in British football.
There definitely is an expectation to win stuff or at least I think there must be.
 

Red the Bear

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We have to agree to disagree on this. It is just like saying Man Utd is the best team in British football.
Historically yes we are (though we go to second place if pool win either the league or the cl)
The pedigree won't go away , the expectations will always be there, that has been the case for us no matter how shit we've been.
 

Abraxas

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If they get fourth it's a very solid season for Lego Pep. Exactly as I was arguing for, give a young manager with a young squad the chance to make decisions and a period of time to make a difference before leaping to conclusions.

The problem for him now, is where do they go? The financial backing only seems to come up to a point at Arsenal. How does he really attempt to bridge that gap with the profile of signing they're going for? It's going to be a long old period of shuffling around 4th or 5th I would think. I guess the remit is to consistently make the champions League for a while and pray these players progress.
 

GoonerBear

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There would have to be some amount of signings! Both number 9s are leaving and you are one injury away from playing Cedric, Tavares, Elneny and Holding.

I think the young attacking midfielders are very exciting, but the squad is as shallow as it gets. You are a good 5-6 players away from a CL squad. Do you think there will be money in the summer?
A lot will depend on the budget of course if we qualify for top 4, but I think we'll spend similar to this summer.

I think we'll sign 2 forwards, at least 1 maybe 2 midfielders depending on what happens with Xhaka, and a full back.
Maybe not these exact players but I think you could look at something like this;

Fwd DCL
Fwd Jesus
Mid Tielemans
New Left Back
CB Saliba coming back.
 

ThierryHenry14

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If they get fourth it's a very solid season for Lego Pep. Exactly as I was arguing for, give a young manager with a young squad the chance to make decisions and a period of time to make a difference before leaping to conclusions.

The problem for him now, is where do they go? The financial backing only seems to come up to a point at Arsenal. How does he really attempt to bridge that gap with the profile of signing they're going for? It's going to be a long old period of shuffling around 4th or 5th I would think. I guess the remit is to consistently make the champions League for a while and pray these players progress.
Then the players will leave to join teams that can challenge for title. Henry, Fabregas, Van Persie did that for this very reason. It is the reality.
 

Hughie77

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Of course, but that wasn't the point in my reply, I don't class a semi final early doors. Utd played 4 extra games than Arsenal this season, although of course we didn't have to worry about the European travel.
Keep your hat on, just having a bit a laugh. Let's go again next season.
 

footyfan019

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Finishing 5th won't be bad for Arsenal this year, but 4th will attract more players for next season. Arsenal needs some quality reinforcements if they want to finish anywhere near the top 5 next season.
 

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I think it's a nice gesture for a young inexperienced player who received horrible abuse for simply missing a penalty in one of the most intense games he'll ever play in.
I guess, it just seems weird for Arsenal to do and not England. Maybe that because for a lot United fans it’s always club before country(Would include myself in this).
 

The Corinthian

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I think it’s a bit on the weird side. Players miss penalties. It happens.