Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

[AshRK]

Surely they had the league sewn up even earlier with United 12 points behind them?

There was a difference. Last season pep had bigger fish to fry than increasing league points tally and you guys had nothing else to focus but league. When ole came 2nd , we were also in europa semis so fielded a very young side against Leicester at home, as well as took the foot off the pedal against fulham at home. That itself was 5 dropped points. Even the game against Liverpool was rescheduled and squeezed in making it difficult for us to focus.

Context matters. Again not saying Ole is better than arteta but I agree with couple of posters here that Ole was treated very harshly in compatrison to Arteta. His first real downfall and he was sacked. Arteta got numerous chances to fix his shit. So credit to arsenal board.

 

[GoonerBear]

Yet, it was as there were red flags everywhere. Yet, it was still only 7 points off what Arteta managed, which was hailed as a fantastic season.

You’re acting like once you get into the 75+ point mark that 7 points isn’t a sizeable margin.

And are you not making our point? The reason Ole might have been criticised is that there were red flags everywhere despite the relatively decent results. A lot of those red flags don’t currently apply to Arteta. That’s not to say though it’s not without any flags at all of course.

 

[Robbie Boy]

You’re acting like once you get into the 75+ point mark that 7 points isn’t a sizeable margin.

And are you not making our point? The reason Ole might have been criticised is that there were red flags everywhere despite the relatively decent results. A lot of those red flags don’t currently apply to Arteta. That’s not to say though it’s not without any flags at all of course.

My point is that in no world can Arteta be spoken about in the same breath as Pep and Klopp like you giddy lot like to do. Maybe some day, but certainly not now. Right now his biggest achievements are a second place finish and and an FA Cup.

 

[GoonerBear]

My point is that in no world can Arteta be spoken about in the same breath as Pep and Klopp like you giddy lot like to do. Maybe some day, but certainly not now. Right now his biggest achievements are a second place finish and and an FA Cup.

Well my problem with that statement is classing us all as ‘you giddy lot’, which assumes that we all actually think like that. In fact, has any Arsenal fan on the forum actually said that? If they did then yeah, I agree, they are a bit feckin mental. There obviously is no current comparison considering their histories and achievements, he’s a novice ffs. He certainly won’t get anywhere near Peps achievements, and will do well to even get to Klopps.

However, my realistic aims of Arteta such was the gap to Liverpool and City was to try and position us as the ‘best of the rest’ to try and take advantage when Klopp and Pep decided to feck off. So by that token, I certainly can’t be overly disappointed that he’s properly trading blows with them now.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Well my problem with that statement is classing us all as ‘you giddy lot’, which assumes that we all actually think like that. In fact, has any Arsenal fan on the forum actually said that?

Come on mate, we both know the answer to that.

 

[GoonerBear]

Come on mate, we both know the answer to that.

Well even if there are, it’s certainly not my opinion, so I’d rather not get classed with the same views as them when I don’t agree with them.

Edit: Sorry Robbie, that sounded a bit arsey when that wasn’t my intention.

 

[SuperiorXI]

There is still a chance this season! One slip from city and it’s all game on again for Arsenal and Liverpool

It's so defeatist how their fanbases have just given up. They're still 100% in it.

 

[golden_blunder]

It's so defeatist how their fanbases have just given up. They're still 100% in it.

It’s crazy how tight it is. It’s all still to play for

 

[cafecillos]

It’s crazy how tight it is. It’s all still to play for

Yes, but the thing is just a few days ago nobody expected City to come out of last weekend's matchday 2 points clear at the top. Arsenal's slip may be a bit more "understandable", as Villa is having a very strong season, although it was still a home game and you absolutely have to win your home games come this time of the season, but Liverpool's was just a disastrous slip. City were probably favourites even before last weekend, let alone now. Even if they drop a couple of points here and there, which admittedly feels less unlikely than in previous seasons, are the other two going to win everything from now on? After last weekend that feels far from certain.

 

[Daydreamer]

Come on mate, we both know the answer to that.

I mean, has anybody round here said anything like that? The previous few pages are full of Gooners saying maybe we shouldn’t sack Arteta for coming up short against one of the greatest Managers of all time.

Arteta clearly isn’t on Pep’s level, but that’s a humongous straw man seeing as nobody is saying that he is.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It’s crazy how tight it is. It’s all still to play for

Their run in looks pretty perilous to be honest. Can't help but think the fixture list might have given the semblance of this title race when you think they still have Wolves (A), Chelsea (H), Spurs (A), B'Mouth (H), United (A), Everton (H). North London derby, Chelsea game, United away, also probable Everton will be in the relegation fight when they play them.

Compare that to Brighton (A), Forest (A), Wolves (H), Fulham (A), Spurs (A) and WHUM (H), and I think they are out of it sadly.

 

[Alex99]

Yes, but the thing is just a few days ago nobody expected City to come out of last weekend's matchday 2 points clear at the top. Arsenal's slip may be a bit more "understandable", as Villa is having a very strong season, although it was still a home game and you absolutely have to win your home games come this time of the season, but Liverpool's was just a disastrous slip. City were probably favourites even before last weekend, let alone now. Even if they drop a couple of points here and there, which admittedly feels less unlikely than in previous seasons, are the other two going to win everything from now on? After last weekend that feels far from certain.

I think this last weekend will be looked at as the one that decided the title race.

Realistically, you're looking at City dropping 2-4 points at most in the run-in, but I'd be very surprised if either Arsenal or Liverpool made it through theirs with a 100% record, and if anything would expect them to fall further behind.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Well even if there are, it’s certainly not my opinion, so I’d rather not get classed with the same views as them when I don’t agree with them.

Edit: Sorry Robbie, that sounded a bit arsey when that wasn’t my intention.

No worries at all mate, I didn't think it sounded arsey. But, there certainly has been some wild takes in here from Arsenal fans with comparisons to Pep/Klopp. I think that kind of giddy OTT stuff just rubs people up the wrong way.

My view is that he's done a cracking job and I can see improvements and more consistency than last season. He definitely hasn't stagnated whatsoever, as last season, I feel you were rather lucky at times, but this season it feels like the team has evolved to a higher standard. Next season will be big though, as that's when some stagnation may occur.

For what it's worth, I don't feel yesterday spells the end of your title challenge or, Liverpool's for that matter. There's plenty of points to play for and anything might happen.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I mean, has anybody round here said anything like that? The previous few pages are full of Gooners saying maybe we shouldn’t sack Arteta for coming up short against one of the greatest Managers of all time.

It's a big thread mate. Yes, it definitely has been said. I never alluded to recent pages.

 

[awop]

It's a big thread mate. Yes, it definitely has been said. I never alluded to recent pages.

It seems to be a big crusade of yours so quote them. Name and shame. I'm not saying you won't find any but it's always a good idea to support your argument with actual proof.
Bundling everyone in because somebody said something mental on page 253 in December 2022 is useless.

 

[golden_blunder]

Arteta has made clear progress this season. Still in with a mathematical chance of winning the PL with 6 or 7 games to go and in with a chance of making the semi finals of the CL.

 

[Robbie Boy]

It seems to be a big crusade of yours so quote them. Name and shame. I'm not saying you won't find any but it's always a good idea to support your argument with actual proof.
Bundling everyone in because somebody said something mental on page 253 in December 2022 is useless.

Oh right.

 

[erikcred]

It’s crazy how tight it is. It’s all still to play for

Their pessimism is very much grounded in reality.

In 18/19, City ended the season with 14 straight wins.

In 21/22, they dropped 6 points (2 of those against their title rivals, so basically no effect) in their last 12 games and when they needed 3 goals in 15 minutes to win the title in the last game, did just that.

Last year, they put together a 12 match winning run to clinch the title.

Other than "who knows what'll happen in life?", there's no basis to be confident that this City team will lose a game in the next 6, not to mention the other two teams still need to be perfect to take advantage of that.

 

[golden_blunder]

Their pessimism is very much grounded in reality.

In 18/19, City ended the season with 14 straight wins.

In 21/22, they dropped 6 points (2 of those against their title rivals, so basically no effect) in their last 12 games and when they needed 3 goals in 15 minutes to win the title in the last game, did just that.

Last year, they put together a 12 match winning run to clinch the title.

Other than "who knows what'll happen in life?", there's no basis to be confident that this City team will lose a game in the next 6, not to mention the other two teams still need to be perfect to take advantage of that.

If there is ever a season to do it, it’s this one. City have not been at their best.

plus imagine what message that puts out if the Arsenal and Liverpool players gave in as easily as the fans. What’s the point in playing if you don’t keep going until it’s mathematically impossible?

 

[mathrait]

And had Arsenal won at the Etihad and all the other results stayed the same, we would have been Champions. It’s all ifs, buts and maybes.

Do we really think City was going fully tilt with United double-digit points behind? Surely the same logic applies to Ole’s points gap (it could have been more) as it does to Arteta’s?

Don't bother trying to find logic in that post.

Last season Arteta finished with 84 points. When Ole finished second with Utd they had 74 points, it was one of the weakest premier league seasons ever.

Last year, with a points tally of 74, Utd would have only scraped 4th spot finishing only 3 points above 5th place Newcastle.

 

[AshRK]

Don't bother trying to find logic in that post.

Last season Arteta finished with 84 points. When Ole finished second with Utd they had 74 points, it was one of the weakest premier league seasons ever.

Last year, with a points tally of 74, Utd would have only scraped 4th spot finishing only 3 points above 5th place Newcastle.

Again you are missing the context here. When Ole finished 2nd with 74 points, we were also in europa semis so fielded a very young side against Leicester at home, as well as took the foot off the pedal against fulham at home and leeds away. That itself was 7 dropped points. Even the game against Liverpool was rescheduled and squeezed in making it difficult for us to focus. So in any other season without any other competition we could have finised 80 plus points but still lost the league like arteta did.

Again repeating myself from my above post I am not saying Ole is better than arteta but I agree with couple of posters here that Ole was treated very harshly in compatrison to Arteta. His first real downfall and he was sacked. Arteta got numerous chances to fix his shit. So credit to arsenal board and lucky arteta he wasn't with a club who would have sacked him.

 

[erikcred]

Again repeating myself from my above post I am not saying Ole is better than arteta but I agree with couple of posters here that Ole was treated very harshly in compatrison to Arteta. His first real downfall and he was sacked. Arteta got numerous chances to fix his shit. So credit to arsenal board and lucky arteta he wasn't with a club who would have sacked him.

 

[erikcred]

If there is ever a season to do it, it’s this one. City have not been at their best.

plus imagine what message that puts out if the Arsenal and Liverpool players gave in as easily as the fans. What’s the point in playing if you don’t keep going until it’s mathematically impossible?

That's a fair point about this being the best chance for those two to beat City.

I'm just saying that I completely understand the fans going "oh ffs not again!"

 

[AshRK]

Finished 3rd 2nd and the a shit start to a new season, he got sacked. Unlike arteta who got chance after finishing 8th and 5th.

Again fair play to arsenal board for backing arteta because at United he would have been sacked multiple times

 

[Acheron]

Again fair play to arsenal board for backing arteta because at United he would have been sacked multiple times

If anything I have the impression United sits way too long in underperforming and mediocre managers such as Ole but you do have a point on Arsenal giving Arteta time when it wasn't very obvious he could be a good manager for them. Sometimes it's also about being a good fit for certain clubs so maybe they saw something in him that gave them confidence to back him up.

 

[awop]

Oh right.

Guess they don't exist then.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Guess they don't exist then.

Oh they absolutely do

 

[Samid]

Cheerio.

 

[E-mal]

Another lego Pep down

 

[Toshey]

Saka and Arteta - you just gotta love to see those cnuts fail.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Can't believe Tomiyasu lasted nearly the entire match. He's clearly uncomfortable at lb and was getting roasted all night but for some reason Mikel sees Dalot in him..

 

[tomaldinho1]

They played pretty well to be honest, what do our resident Arsenal fans think? Thought you surely want to keep Martinelli on for his pace once you go a goal down, despite him being at fault for the goal.

 

[GoonerGirly]

They played pretty well to be honest, what do our resident Arsenal fans think? Thought you surely want to keep Martinelli on for his pace once you go a goal down, despite him being at fault for the goal.

I think we did well in general but faded in the second half. It was similar vs Villa, edged the first half but kind of fell apart in the 2nd. I think we're running out of steam (and to be fair both are tough games against very good teams) at the back end of the season yet again. I'm disappointed as I thought we'd put up a bit of a tougher fight, but honestly, I've lived through many batterings at the hands of Bayern in the past so 3-2 on aggregate is actually progress!

 

[rimaldo]

that’s probably the lowest i’ve felt as an arsenal fan.

 

[saivet]

They played pretty well to be honest, what do our resident Arsenal fans think? Thought you surely want to keep Martinelli on for his pace once you go a goal down, despite him being at fault for the goal.

Not an Arsenal fan but they didn't create enough chances. There's talk of them needing a no.9, which I agree but they approached the game too cautiously in my opinion and didn't create enough opportunities or test Neuer enough.

 

[GoonerGirly]

that’s probably the lowest i’ve felt as an arsenal fan.

How long have you been supporting us, can I ask? Just curious. I can remember one or two worse defeats at the hands of Bayern.

Not an Arsenal fan but they didn't create enough chances. There's talk of them needing a no.9, which I agree but they approached the game too cautiously in my opinion and didn't create enough opportunities or test Neuer enough.

Thought we did well in the frist half but badly faded in the second. I think we're running out of legs as we also fell away at the weekend. I agree we lacked urgency, but credit to Bayern there are few teams better at game management in these situations.

 

[rimaldo]

How long have you been supporting us, can I ask?

too long.

 

[awop]

Can't believe Tomiyasu lasted nearly the entire match. He's clearly uncomfortable at lb and was getting roasted all night but for some reason Mikel sees Dalot in him..

Alternatives are Kiwior who got hooked because Sané was killing him in the first leg and Zinchenko who comes with a guaranteed mistake. Tomiyasu played the Zinchenko inverted fullback role but the team was clearly uncomfortable giving him the ball in tight spaces. So we pretty much nullified the role and the advantage all by ourselves.

 

[GoonerGirly]

Alternatives are Kiwior who got hooked because Sané was killing him in the first leg and Zinchenko who comes with a guaranteed mistake. Tomiyasu played the Zinchenko inverted fullback role but the team was clearly uncomfortable giving him the ball in tight spaces. So we pretty much nullified the role and the advantage all by ourselves.

Sane is excellent and most FBs would struggle against him. I think defensively we did well tonight (except the goal of course) and in particular kept Kane quiet, but we needed more from our attackers and tonight it just wasn't clicking.

 

[mathrait]

They played pretty well to be honest, what do our resident Arsenal fans think? Thought you surely want to keep Martinelli on for his pace once you go a goal down, despite him being at fault for the goal.

Martinelli is a bit of a one dimensional speed merchant. He needs space behind the defence to run into. His form has dropped off massively since the first half of last season and I think that concides with teams taking us more seriously after our start last season and sitting very deep. I think we need to start looking very technical players who can play in tights spaces (in the same style Bernardo Silva, Foden). Jesus, Odegaard and Saka do that pretty well already.

In terms of our performance, we've dominated a giant European club for large periods of both games but in the CL you can't make a silly mistake given the elite level of football. Unfortunately this is what let us down. We should have won the first leg but we made 2 mistakes where we basically handed Bayern 2 goals and let them back in the tie. We did the same against Porto with Martinelli making the mistake for the Porto goal. For a lot of these players, its their first time playing CL football so hopefully it's a learning experience.

At this level, you really need to be faultless and take your chances. Thats why City and Guardiola had to spend more than a billion pounds and 8 years just to win their first CL.