I agree that it wasn't a masterclass. But we've been better than many under performing big teams and taken all the credit for it so it's fair to give them that. Arsenal at OT is generally is a very easy game for us.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Depends how you define struggle, if you mean he will have to perform miracles and get a Southampton challenging then yes he would "struggle", but I believe he would get a lesser team doing well (scaled for players and budget) if that's how he had to start (of course he won't do it now no one would once they've proved themselves at the very top).
For some weird reason we have not been playing well against them since wenger retired and have not beaten them once in the league. We always seem to turn up against them with very less intensity. Hopefully next time we do these lots because they are not that good.
Are there any Arsenal fans on here? I would like to know what they think of the situation.
My experience when watching Arsenal this season is they're very dull, reminds me a bit of LVG at United. I still think it's too early to say if Arteta is the right fit or not, but one thing is for sure is that Arsenal need better players, in every department. Arteta, having worked for Pep and played under Wenger, surely must aim to bring back the champagne football Arsenal once played, or "Wengerball", but just doesn't have the right players for it. Like LVG at United, the style he wanted to implement needed the right players I think Arteta is in similiar situation.
My experience when watching Arsenal this season is they're very dull, reminds me a bit of LVG at United. I still think it's too early to say if Arteta is the right fit or not, but one thing is for sure is that Arsenal need better players, in every department. Arteta, having worked for Pep and played under Wenger, surely must aim to bring back the champagne football Arsenal once played, or "Wengerball", but just doesn't have the right players for it. Like LVG at United, the style he wanted to implement needed the right players I think Arteta is in similiar situation.
My memory is a little fuzzy on United in that period, but United used to generally dominate the game under LVG in terms of possession and overall chances, it just wasn't very exciting or inspiring football and he ultimately failed but the standards at United and Arsenal appear to be worlds apart. If Areta can achieve for Arsenal what LVG produced at United, they would likely give him a new contract.
Arsenal, when I've watched them this season, allow themselves to get dominated almost regardless of who the opponent is - it's no exaggeration to say Villa Leeds Wolves all played them off the park. They aren't good in possession, they don't create anything, they don't really stop the other team creating chances. They're not a physical team, so they can be quite easy to play against and they're now losing games at an alarming rate. They have a -2 goal difference and they haven't had some random big defeat that skews the GD, like Liverpool and United for example.
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They were pretty much like this last season aswell just Auba being clinical and Leno/Emi being amoung the best keepers in the league allowed them to significantly overperform their metrics.
The most bizare thing is they probably have a set starting Xl that would comfortably finish top six if not challenge for 4th if they are lucky with injuries (Leno AMN/Luiz/Gabriel/Tierney Partey/Ceballos/Saka Pepe/Martenelli/Auba) but Arteta seems obsessed with the deadwood, he's not only playing them (and in Xhaka and Mustafi's cases bringing them back from exile) but offering some of them new deals aswell.
I would define struggle as not win anything and perform at a midtable expectation. If he was lucky he'd get a Bielsa-kind of reaction out of his players but I think that would be asking a lot, but yes, I agree, ultimately it's the players and budget that really define how well a manager does.
He’s just ensured it so they don’t get battered anymore
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I remember Arsenal fans saying replacing Wenger would not be too difficult because they were not competing for the league at the time, turns out it is not that easy.
At least with Wenger, you guys played some really good football against the smaller teams. Arteta has been more Moyes than Pep. He is a young manager, but still not really seeing the fuss about him.
It is basically still the same soft Arsenal but without some of the good games they had against the fodder.
At least with Wenger, you guys played some really good football against the smaller teams. Arteta has been more Moyes than Pep. He is a young manager, but still not really seeing the fuss about him.
It is basically still the same soft Arsenal but without some of the good games they had against the fodder.
Tbf under Wenger, these guys were getting thrashed by bigger sides because they didn't take into account opposition strengths. It worked earlier as they were a top side, however, in Wenger's later years, they were a level below the likes of us, City, Chelsea, etc.
Having said that, I'd much rather fancy my team's chances every game and lose instead of whatever Arteta is doing right now.
I dont understand why people expected pep football under Arteta? He spent most of his career under Moyes.
Jose was assistant manager to LVG but plays a totally different brand of football.
hairy fraud
Oh no. That is a shocking quote. If I was an arsenal fan, I would be worried now. I thought he looked so assured at the start. That is a bad quote and one that suggests he mightnot be ready for a job like this.
Is that taken out of context at all? I actually don't think there's a lot wrong with crossing it if you have quality crossers and people good at getting on the end of them, of which Arsenal have neither. I think it's a pretty good way of breaking down defensive sides, Guardiola said he'd resort to crossing when there was no space for his attackers.
Resort to crossing? That’s where they get most of their goals. Hipsters decided crossing was bad when Moyes was United manager. This current United team could do with doing it more often.
It's what he said in an interview last year, said he resorts to crossing when teams defend deep and he struggles to break them down.
He's having to play 'deadwood' because players like Partey who was meant to be the lynchpin of the midfield has been available for 2 whole games, & guys like Martinelli have been injured since 1 of Arteta's first games.
An interview came out today with his ideals. He wants to play 433, he wants to win the ball high up the pitch, but he's looking for 4 or 5 players to really play that way. Partey & Gabriel was a start, but unfortunately unlike Chelsea Arsenal can't get them all in 1 window. So, until Partey can get fit, we're going to have to watch Xhaka plodding about midfield, & that's never pretty viewing.
Not even close to Moyes. The Chosen One had us at 80 crossesArsenal thought they were getting Peps protégé but they actually got Moyes'
Even inspired my name!
Well, Arteta does have Steve Round on his coaching staff.
The media response to Arteta and Arsenal’s current plight really irks me at the moment.
You could argue that the situations of both Arsenal and United aren’t too dissimilar but the response from the media to each other’s situation is like chalk and cheese.
Most media can’t wait to praise Arteta, or excuse him where they can no matter the result or performances.
I think they’ve been really poor all season and don’t think Arteta has particularly taken them forward.
Someone above said that Arteta wants to win the ball high up the pitch but I believe that they are once of the least pressing teams in the league.
You could argue that the situations of both Arsenal and United aren’t too dissimilar but the response from the media to each other’s situation is like chalk and cheese.
Most media can’t wait to praise Arteta, or excuse him where they can no matter the result or performances.
I think they’ve been really poor all season and don’t think Arteta has particularly taken them forward.
Someone above said that Arteta wants to win the ball high up the pitch but I believe that they are once of the least pressing teams in the league.
Eric Dier recently described Arteta "the most exciting young coach in Europe".
Where did he get that reputation? Why?
Where did he get that reputation? Why?
Because Pep.
Did he finally cross a line?
So that makes Mick Phelan the GOAT assistant?
Yes, every team crosses. Some top teams like Liverpool and City even rely on crossing for a good part of their chance creation, but they do that by design because they possess some of the best deep (Trent and Robertson) and touchline (KDB) crossers in the world. When Arsenal cross under Arteta it doesn't look to be by design, it looks to be due to desperation, and they neither have the quality of delivery nor the numbers in the box to turn that into a consistent source of goals. Not to mention that none of their attackers bar Martinelli, who's been out for months, is a natural header of the ball.
I don't turn my nose up at crossing, there's no one valid way to play football, but Arteta seems to be running out of ideas fast with no way to fix it. He's backed himself into a corner with a lot of his personnel decisions, although the issues with the overall squad are far from his fault. That quote would worry me if I was an Arsenal fan. Think if they get trounced by Spurs and then fail to beat both Burnley or Saints his job will be in real danger, no amount of feel-good Thursday night wins against minnows can save a manager at that point.
I don't turn my nose up at crossing, there's no one valid way to play football, but Arteta seems to be running out of ideas fast with no way to fix it. He's backed himself into a corner with a lot of his personnel decisions, although the issues with the overall squad are far from his fault. That quote would worry me if I was an Arsenal fan. Think if they get trounced by Spurs and then fail to beat both Burnley or Saints his job will be in real danger, no amount of feel-good Thursday night wins against minnows can save a manager at that point.
I can’t say if the media treats one club better than the other, but I think it’s a stretch to say the situations at the club aren’t too dissimilar. How many Arsenal players would start for United?
You seen his legs ?
Concerning Arsenal and crossing. I think one thing which could make them more threatening is if they actually had their best forward in the box.
Arteta's use of Aubameyang continues to amuse me. Hope it continues.
I didn’t necessarily mean strength of squad or playing personnel.
More about the size of club, inexperienced manager coming in, frustration from fans with inconsistent results and performances etc.
Ah gotcha. I think Arsenal just aren’t as relevant (no disrespect I really like the club) as Manchester United are, and success is a lot less ingrained into the culture than it is at Old Trafford. I think it helped that Wenger had spent a decade doing laps of honour so Arsenal’s capitulation isn’t as striking as United’s post Fergie.
I think talking solely about Arteta it’s a mixed bag, he’s playing shite football but it’s a weird season and I think the squad is utterly awful, I can’t think of many of their players getting into the starting 11s of the other top 6 clubs. Still results have been poor and the lack of chances created is dreadful. Still think he deserves a fair whack at putting together a squad.
I get the whole difference in relevance and the fact that United are just in the media more because of clicks, likes etc., but a lot of the stuff that I hear is from podcasts that aren’t really going to generate that much attention.
As a United fan, I just find it frustrating at a) the lack of credit for Ole (when due) and b) the OTT criticism of him when he something bad happens
That quote by Arteta is quite something. The phrasing, the math references, the thinking that crosses are an effective way to increase your teams shot and ultimately goal output in 2020. Deary me.
Issue is, you currently on paper have a better squad than we did last season and we finished 4th. Not saying Arteta has to do that or its failure, but you have a set starting Xl that should be atleast finishing top 7 if the majority of them are used most weeks. Furthermore, if Arteta decided to say "feck it I'll play what I (apparently) want to play, drill the system into my players and take the growing pains that will come until I have a Xl I want" like Klopp did would your results have been much worse than they have been (especially recently)? You may not have had the FA Cup but I'd wager you'd be a lot closer to where you ultimately want to be than you currently are and as fans you would be having a lot more fun on the way.
Also he doesn't really have to play a lot of the deadwood, as I shown with that lineup above, even without Partey you can bring out a lineup without playing Xhaka. He could also play AMN instead of Bellerin, he didn't have to sign Cedric and Mari, give Willian three years or offer Mustafi and Elnenny new deals (those two along with Xhaka were pretty much exilled until Arteta turned up and brought them back into the fold).
Signed Willian, Cedric and Mari, gave new contracts to (at best) midtable players and clearly learnt nothing from Alexis and Ozil. It's like their transfer strategy is run by agents.
Would you say our squad was more complete than yours last season? I suppose that's a matter of opinion, not sure i necessarily agree with it mind you player for player, but there's no doubt we should be doing better, & Lampard did well with what he had. Just after the Utd game, think we were 4th in the table in terms or results since he joined, so he was doing ok. There's no doubt we've had a shocking month since though.
There's certainly a couple of different ways to approach it, not sure you can definitively say what's the right way. On paper, you think trying to give a team as lost as what Arsenal were some structure & tighten up the defence doesn't seem a silly thing to do, trying to cover weaknesses in midfield & defence seem sensible as well. Certainly no-one envisaged how bad the past month would be, so in hindsight perhaps he was wrong.
The signings of Cedric & Mari were low cost options to fill specific roles in the squad. He wanted a left footed centre back, & a specific right back as cover, especially because it was believed Maitland-Niles didn't want to play full back & would look to move in the summer. I'm not sure I believe the stories about Mustafi being offered a new deal, & Elneny has been our best midfielder this season overall (that tells a story in itself) & is a useful squad player.
The signing of Willian hasn't worked out, that's for sure. That's 1 I certainly don't think we needed for sure, certainly in this form anyway! :-)
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I got slated for saying Arteta was having a new manager bounce. United fans saying we simply don’t get coached like Arsenal do, that he’s demonstrated he’ll be a top manager.
Just wondering where those posters have gone, a lot of Arsenal fans calling for his head already, confused with team selections, confused with their pragmatic style of play.
Just wondering where those posters have gone, a lot of Arsenal fans calling for his head already, confused with team selections, confused with their pragmatic style of play.
This doesn't apply to Ole approaching 2 years, no?
Fans don't question our counter attacking style?