Mikhi needs to improve

[Micky Targaryen]

Usually I am all for giving under-performing players chances to "bounce back" from their bad form, but I'm getting more and more convinced that Mkhitaryan is not suited for the PL. Aside from his lack of confidence on the ball, he is constantly outmuscled and struggling to retain the ball under pressure.
Can't really see him as an impact player off the bench, but definitely not the type of player you'd start in high intensity games.

Would really love it if we bought a player in the Eriksen or KDB mould in January.

 

[kouroux]

The worst thing about him is he is a confidence player. Once things get tough he form wise mentally folds. That is why he is suddenly so weak on the ball. Bulk isn't even the issue. Its entirely mental with him.

Great point and it begs the question as to why we targeted such a pussy to begin with ? Don't scouts do a minimum of psy evaluation ? I'll admit I wasn't paying much attention to him at Dortmund but it seems like this isn't new. Most people knew about it

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Great point and it begs the question as to why we targeted such a pussy to begin with ? Don't scouts do a minimum of psy evaluation ? I'll admit I wasn't paying much attention to him at Dortmund but it seems like this isn't new. Most people knew about it

Confidence players are always amazing when their tails are up and that is why they get signed. Nani was another example. As is Ben Arfa/Ballotelli. Mess with their confidence and they either retreat to a shell or become a nuisance

 

[lawliet354]

Great point and it begs the question as to why we targeted such a pussy to begin with ? Don't scouts do a minimum of psy evaluation ? I'll admit I wasn't paying much attention to him at Dortmund but it seems like this isn't new. Most people knew about it

I still believe Mourinho bought him because Mikhi's agent is Raiola, as Raiola helped us in landing Pogba and Ibra, as crazy as that sounds, and I also think even Mourinho was surprised with how poor Mkhi was, especially in his early days here

 

[kouroux]

Confidence players are always amazing when their tails are up and that is why they get signed. Nani was another example. As is Ben Arfa/Ballotelli. Mess with their confidence and they either retreat to a shell or become a nuisance

Definitely not the player required for big clubs

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Definitely not the player required for big clubs

Sadly

 

[giorno]

Definitely not the player required for big clubs

Nah, he'd be great for City. He's just a very good "team" player, one who needs the right environment around him to be effective(and yes, he's not the player you want to be the man)

 

[FireballXL5]

He needs to be sold.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I still believe Mourinho bought him because Mikhi's agent is Raiola, as Raiola helped us in landing Pogba and Ibra, as crazy as that sounds, and I also think even Mourinho was surprised with how poor Mkhi was, especially in his early days here

I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories but that would help explain the bizarre start to his first season.

 

[Dept3942]

It's on Mou as well, everyone in this forum knew that he is too much of a bottle job to be starting this game.

I don't think you can blame Jose specifically. He must be doing well in training & we all know he's a streaky player. Jose is putting him in thinking this is the week he takes off. Jose has given him time & the player has not responded.

 

[Rocksy]

He's rubbish. He was scouted for years and passed over. JM went with him and must be regretting it. I don't get why he doesn't ditch him and go with a proper 4-3-3. I expect once he's out of the team he won't be back.

 

[Betson]

The most worrying thing for me about his performance yesterday was his constant looking over at the bench , not in a nervous way fearing he would be taken off but it looked as if he was hoping he would be taken off , he does not look like he fancies it at all when the going gets tough.

 

[BlakeUtd]

He needs to be sold.

during and after the game I really had this feeling. Its way different from last year when everyone thought mou was being excessively harsh and that he wasn't getting enough playing time. Now Mou plays him almost every game and I realize he's not cut out for us when the going gets tough. I wont feel bad if we even sell him in January

 

[clarkydaz]

The most worrying thing for me about his performance yesterday was his constant looking over at the bench , not in a nervous way fearing he would be taken off but it looked as if he was hoping he would be taken off , he does not look like he fancies it at all when the going gets tough.

I thought that, its like he knows himself not good enough

 

[Freak]

Nah, he'd be great for City. He's just a very good "team" player, one who needs the right environment around him to be effective(and yes, he's not the player you want to be the man)

Therein lies the problem. We said the same of a few players who turned out to be disappointments - Veron, Kagawa, Mkhi, Mata. Maybe it is actually the way we play; we tend to rely on individuals rather than play as a unit.

 

[shamans]

Therein lies the problem. We said the same of a few players who turned out to be disappointments - Veron, Kagawa, Mkhi, Mata. Maybe it is actually the way we play; we tend to rely on individuals rather than play as a unit.

Mata has not been disappointing. Been one of our key players for four years.

 

[Freak]

Mata has not been disappointing. Been one of our key players for four years.

He has not reached the heights he reached when at Chelsea - that was the expectation when he was bought.

 

[Devil77]

Mata has not been disappointing. Been one of our key players for four years.

This! I agree that Mata has been in less than stellar form the last 3-4 games. But he seldom dissapoints the way Mkhitaryan does.

 

[Devil77]

He has not reached the heights he reached when at Chelsea - that was the expectation when he was bought.

Well, I think he has. We tend to overestimate players from other clubs. The stats would suggest an improvement after he joined United.

 

[giorno]

Therein lies the problem. We said the same of a few players who turned out to be disappointments - Veron, Kagawa, Mkhi, Mata. Maybe it is actually the way we play; we tend to rely on individuals rather than play as a unit.

Dunno about Veron, the others are very good, not great, players who were either misused or never put in the right conditions. Mata was generally good for Van Gaal wasn't he. Especially when playing in central areas

 

[giorno]

He has not reached the heights he reached when at Chelsea - that was the expectation when he was bought.

He's performed at roughly the same level. Maybe at chelsea he looked better 'cause he was asked to do more, so he attempted more stuff

 

[Fortitude]

Nah, he'd be great for City. He's just a very good "team" player, one who needs the right environment around him to be effective(and yes, he's not the player you want to be the man)

It really is as simple as that.

Mkhi never has and never will be THE man in a team; he doesn't want or like that kind of responsibility, but you put him in a team as just a functioning cog, he'll serve a team well.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It really is as simple as that.

Mkhi never has and never will be THE man in a team; he doesn't want or like that kind of responsibility, but you put him in a team as just a functioning cog, he'll serve a team well.

Just as well he's never had to be "THE man" at United. To the extent he was given an extended holiday for the first few months of his United career. Right now, he's just expected to be "A man" and is failing at even that most basic brief.

 

[gerdm07]

The most worrying thing for me about his performance yesterday was his constant looking over at the bench , not in a nervous way fearing he would be taken off but it looked as if he was hoping he would be taken off , he does not look like he fancies it at all when the going gets tough.

I also get the feeling he is happy when he is fouled because he now does not have to make a play. There have been a number of times in the past 4/5 matches when I thought he should have stayed on his feet and played through the foul because of the favorable situation for an attack. Instead, he would rather go down than take on the responsibility.

 

[prtk0811]

I don't think he will improve, ibrahimovic will be back to put him out of his misries.

He is struggling in epl football, good option for cup competitons and that's where he'll shine where he don't have to play against low blocks .

 

[gerdm07]

I don't think he will improve, ibrahimovic will be back to put him out of his misries.

He is struggling in epl football, good option for cup competitons and that's where he'll shine where he don't have to play against low blocks .

Do you guys really think Ibra will play behind Lukaku? I just don't see that.

 

[Moonred]

Doubt he would get a look at City. More excuses for a guy who is just a terrible footballer at the moment be it control, trickery, movement etc. He hasn't been this bad even when he was utter rubbish two weeks back. Doubt he can play any worse, so he should be good whenever he gets his next chance.

 

[prtk0811]

Do you guys really think Ibra will play behind Lukaku? I just don't see that.

Yes , it will happen. Ibra don't stay unless he feels important part of the team. He's is an incredibly focussed man, and stayed for a goal. Mkh has no chance to stand in Hai way.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

He can't, he's almost 30yrs old - this is him at his peak. He's simply not good enough unfortunately.

 

[TheOrgazoid]

Hi Redcafe. It's my first Mains post. Feedback not just welcome, but greatly appreciated.

Mhiki was supposed to be the solution to a problem.
What was/is the problem?

Theory 1: we need a No.10
He has the tools to play well as a No.10 - but only in a particular system.
The entire reason for his signing was the one good season he has with Dortmund - and in that system he had a set of midfielders behind him that worked hard to regain possession (so he didn't have to) and wingers with pace. He doesn't have that here and he is not fast or skillfull enough - unlike, say, Eden Hazard - to take players on himself to balance the lack of creativity of those around him.
If we play him as a No.10 then we will only be effective when Pogba is always fit and we get two wingers to support him. Essentially, he is a 'passenger' player that can contribute given the presence of certain other players but can't do so otherwise.
Again, I would point to Hazard as an obvious counter-example.

Theory 2: we need a right-winger
He is a poor solution - a Premier League winger requires not just the ability to manipulate the ball, but to do at at pace. Mhiki can't do that. He was never going to be the solution to this problem. Leroy Sane, Sadio Mane and Alexis Sanchez obvious counter-exmaples.

To summarise, in my opinion he won't ever be a succesful RW in this league. Not direct, fast or tricky enough.

As a successful No.10 he would require the purchase of a decent right-winger and the continual presence of someone of Pogba's skillset (Pogba himself if he isn't injured or cover if he is) to babysit him through matches.

He doesn't seem worth (to me) the required outlay by the club in order to be facilitated in the team. I would sell him this summer.

 

[goin4glory]

He will be a very good squad option for a top club but we can and should be looking at better in the first 11. Both Ozil and Griezmann would be a significant upgrade and given the rumours surrounding both Mourinho seems to be well aware that Mata/Lingard/Miki just won't cut it at the highest level.

 

[Fortitude]

Just as well he's never had to be "THE man" at United. To the extent he was given an extended holiday for the first few months of his United career. Right now, he's just expected to be "A man" and is failing at even that most basic brief.

Being the #10, expected to link everything and set others on their way, is pretty much the definition of being THE man. It's why the #10 role is so lauded when played right.

At least put him out on the right where he shone for Dortmund, and not smack bang in the middle of the most intense action there is on a pitch.

This is not to excuse, but it's well known that the player is mentally fragile from before he even got to England. We're exacerbating the situation by continually throwing him into the fire.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Being the #10, expected to link everything and set others on their way, is pretty much the definition of being THE man. It's why the #10 role is so lauded when played right.

At least put him out on the right where he shone for Dortmund, and not smack bang in the middle of the most intense action there is on a pitch.

This is not to excuse, but it's well known that the player is mentally fragile from before he even got to England. We're exacerbating the situation by continually throwing him into the fire.

His best performances for us have been in the centre. He's been even more ineffective when played out wide. I fail to see how picking a player in the position where he's produced his best peformances is doing anything other than trying to accomodate him.

 

[devil in me]

Let's call it as it is. He has been rubbish for us since we signed him. He isn't good enough, end of.
He had a few decent performances against Europa League tosh, much like Depay did for us, and it's skewed a few peoples perceptions of him, that when his confidence is up he is some sort of top level player.
I would actually prefer us to play Lingard over him. If truth be told , we don't have someone who can play the number 10 role to a high level. Mata is the best we have, and even he isn't offering much at the moment.

 

[Moonred]

Hi Redcafe. It's my first Mains post. Feedback not just welcome, but greatly appreciated.

Mhiki was supposed to be the solution to a problem.
What was/is the problem?

Theory 1: we need a No.10
He has the tools to play well as a No.10 - but only in a particular system.
The entire reason for his signing was the one good season he has with Dortmund - and in that system he had a set of midfielders behind him that worked hard to regain possession (so he didn't have to) and wingers with pace. He doesn't have that here and he is not fast or skillfull enough - unlike, say, Eden Hazard - to take players on himself to balance the lack of creativity of those around him.
If we play him as a No.10 then we will only be effective when Pogba is always fit and we get two wingers to support him. Essentially, he is a 'passenger' player that can contribute given the presence of certain other players but can't do so otherwise.
Again, I would point to Hazard as an obvious counter-example.

Theory 2: we need a right-winger
He is a poor solution - a Premier League winger requires not just the ability to manipulate the ball, but to do at at pace. Mhiki can't do that. He was never going to be the solution to this problem. Leroy Sane, Sadio Mane and Alexis Sanchez obvious counter-exmaples.

To summarise, in my opinion he won't ever be a succesful RW in this league. Not direct, fast or tricky enough.

As a successful No.10 he would require the purchase of a decent right-winger and the continual presence of someone of Pogba's skillset (Pogba himself if he isn't injured or cover if he is) to babysit him through matches.

He doesn't seem worth (to me) the required outlay by the club in order to be facilitated in the team. I would sell him this summer.

I’ll summarize, we need to buy a 10 + rw and let him sit.

 

[Fortitude]

His best performances for us have been in the centre. He's been even more ineffective when played out wide. I fail to see how picking a player in the position where he's produced his best peformances is doing anything other than trying to accomodate him.

If you're not going to complement him with combination players, he is not going to be effective. He isn't a player who can handle the creative burden by himself, but if you put him in a team with others who can play quick pass and move 1-2's, triangles, etc. where he isn't the main man, he is more than capable. So it's not as simple as putting him in the middle of the pitch, come what may as he's not that kind of player.

Our team yesterday... who is around him to bounce ideas off of? Herrera, at a stretch.... that's putting the onus back on Mkhitaryan to carry the creative load himself, which he isn't comfortable with. That's accommodating him in so much as he's at least playing, but it's not going to get the best out of him, or anything close to it.

The right side of the pitch is where he put up his astronomical goal and assist tally for Dortmund. It makes sense to try him out there before saying he's not good enough for the team as is (without complementary players).

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If you're not going to complement him with combination players, he is not going to be effective. He isn't a player who can handle the creative burden by himself, but if you put him in a team with others who can play quick pass and move 1-2's, triangles, etc. where he isn't the main man, he is more than capable. So it's not as simple as putting him in the middle of the pitch, come what may as he's not that kind of player.

Our team yesterday... who is around him to bounce ideas off of? Herrera, at a stretch.... that's putting the onus back on Mkhitaryan to carry the creative load himself, which he isn't comfortable with. That's accommodating him in so much as he's at least playing, but it's not going to get the best out of him, or anything close to it.

The right side of the pitch is where he put up his astronomical goal and assist tally for Dortmund. It makes sense to try him out there before saying he's not good enough for the team as is (without complementary players).

AKA the Kagawa narrative. Another player who came from the Bundesliga with a whole load of hype but couldn't cut it in the cut and thrust of PL football, despite numerous uber-fans trying to blame absolutely everyone but the player himself.

 

[Moonwalker]

If you have 10 other players doing all the work in his stead, he's perfectly capable.

 

[TheOrgazoid]

I’ll summarize, we need to buy a 10 + rw and let him sit.

Well, that wasn't my summary.
My summary was that if we require a CM and a right-winger just to properly accomodate Mhiki then we would essentially be building our attack around him. He isn't, in my opinion, good enough to warrent that outlay and thus I think we should sell him because he is, in our system, a luxury player.
My summary is that we should buy a RW (because we need one) and play one of Lingard or Mata at No.10.

 

[Moonred]

Well, that wasn't my summary.
My summary was that if we require a CM and a right-winger just to properly accomodate Mhiki then we would essentially be building our attack around him. He isn't, in my opinion, good enough to warrent that outlay and thus I think we should sell him because he is, in our system, a luxury player.
My summary is that we should buy a RW (because we need one) and play one of Lingard or Mata at No.10.

He being out of the team is the most important bit in the summary.