Moises Caicedo | Chelsea player

[FrankFoot]

Still early days but if Caicedo does end up being flop, maybe it puts this 'PL proven' myth to bed.

Ultimately players are only 'club proven', and there's no knowing how well a player will adapt to a new team, coach or system irrespective of how successful their past exploits were. Caicedo has also only had one proper season in English football.

Cause it's a myth.

At least 90% of best players of PL in the last 10 years came from abroad : Haaland, De Bruyne, Gundogan, Salah, Mane, Firmino, Son, Bernardo Silva, Bruno Fernandes, Kante, Kompany, Allison, etc

Who was the last player made in PL that became one of the very best coming from another PL club with a lot of PL experience in his curriculum?

Kane it's the only one I can think in the last 10 years.

 

[Red Rash]

Shows how fickle football fans are that a week ago a lot of United fans were clamouring for Caicedo and one bad game there is a complete change.

Same way people are already jumping on the Mount is shit bandwagon after two games.

 

[Enigma_87]

Shows how fickle football fans are that a week ago a lot of United fans were clamouring for Caicedo and one bad game there is a complete change.

Same way people are already jumping on the Mount is shit bandwagon after two games.

nah he'll come good. He didn't have a preseason, a new challenge in a new team, so naturally he will need time.

Still none the less it was disaster class today..

 

[FrankWhite]

Chelsea really are heading for potential disaster with these massive contracts aren't they ? Could easily end up with 10 Phil Jones / Harry Maguires.

Their only hope is the Saudi league.

 

[georgipep]

I called him a Wilson Palacios regen last week.

Still proud I see...

 

[Lemoor]

MOTM against us.

Post I was quoting was about how Brighton players become much worse after they leave and I just don't see it. Bissouma and Cucurella are probably the strongest examples of that and both can still be decent after disappointing seasons. Bissouma's game against us being an obvious example of that.

Mac allister got sent off for Liverpool Saturday.

Calling him a bad player based on that would be completely absurd.

 

[fezzerUTD]

Post I was quoting was about how Brighton players become much worse after they leave and I just don't see it. Bissouma and Cucurella are probably the strongest examples of that and both can still be decent after disappointing seasons. Bissouma's game against us being an obvious example of that.


Calling him a bad player based on that would be completely absurd.

Reading the posts and coming up with that reply seems absurd to me. The discussion clearly states who's disappointed when changing from Brighton. Nothing to do with ”bad players”.

 

[Oranges038]

Still proud I see...

Yeah, I genuinely don't think there's much between the two.

Caicedo probably looks a better passer of the ball. But, I think a certain amount of that comes from playing in a team that looks to play football, rather than being in one that cedes possesion and looks to hit teams on the break. Palalcios also had a few storming matches against Utd but by and large was average, even at Spurs. I can't be arsed to look any further than the eye test, but I would be surprised if there was a huge difference in their game stats aside from passing.

 

[adexkola]

Cause it's a myth.

At least 90% of best players of PL in the last 10 years came from abroad : Haaland, De Bruyne, Gundogan, Salah, Mane, Firmino, Son, Bernardo Silva, Bruno Fernandes, Kante, Kompany, Allison, etc

Who was the last player made in PL that became one of the very best coming from another PL club with a lot of PL experience in his curriculum?

Kane it's the only one I can think in the last 10 years.

Kane spent the vast majority of his PL career at Tottenham, I don't think he was given a chance because he was battle tested at Leicester

 

[WeePat]

Shows how fickle football fans are that a week ago a lot of United fans were clamouring for Caicedo and one bad game there is a complete change.

Same way people are already jumping on the Mount is shit bandwagon after two games.

Most in here are just having fun with this disaster debut. I don’t think anybody who thought Caicedo was great a week ago have changed their minds. It’s the nature of football. You drop a disasterclass, the memes will start. It’s a ruthless world out here.

 

[DJ_21]

Money well spent…

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Post I was quoting was about how Brighton players become much worse after they leave and I just don't see it. Bissouma and Cucurella are probably the strongest examples of that and both can still be decent after disappointing seasons. Bissouma's game against us being an obvious example of that.


Calling him a bad player based on that would be completely absurd.

I was agreeing with you.

 

[TwoSheds]

Kane spent the vast majority of his PL career at Tottenham, I don't think he was given a chance because he was battle tested at Leicester

I think he meant Kanté.

 

[11101]

Cause it's a myth.

At least 90% of best players of PL in the last 10 years came from abroad : Haaland, De Bruyne, Gundogan, Salah, Mane, Firmino, Son, Bernardo Silva, Bruno Fernandes, Kante, Kompany, Allison, etc

Who was the last player made in PL that became one of the very best coming from another PL club with a lot of PL experience in his curriculum?

Kane it's the only one I can think in the last 10 years.

It's the risk. A good PL player is probably going to be alright at any other club in the league but wont suddenly become a great player from the move either. A player from abroad is more of an unknown.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Cause it's a myth.

At least 90% of best players of PL in the last 10 years came from abroad : Haaland, De Bruyne, Gundogan, Salah, Mane, Firmino, Son, Bernardo Silva, Bruno Fernandes, Kante, Kompany, Allison, etc

Who was the last player made in PL that became one of the very best coming from another PL club with a lot of PL experience in his curriculum?

Kane it's the only one I can think in the last 10 years.

Not that I disagree but just to throw some other names: Walker and Sterling (although you could argue he's bit of a flat track bully) to varying degrees.

 

[jesperjaap]

Cause it's a myth.

At least 90% of best players of PL in the last 10 years came from abroad : Haaland, De Bruyne, Gundogan, Salah, Mane, Firmino, Son, Bernardo Silva, Bruno Fernandes, Kante, Kompany, Allison, etc

Who was the last player made in PL that became one of the very best coming from another PL club with a lot of PL experience in his curriculum?

Kane it's the only one I can think in the last 10 years.

A couple fo those players only been great for one or two sesons and I would disagree at the current time as well considering the wealth of quality English players in the premiership Walker, Saka, Grealish, Kane, dare I say Greenwod before all the troubles, James, Maddison, Rice, mount, Shaw have all been amogst the best in there positions for similar periods of time as a few of the names you mention.

 

[jesperjaap]

He had some poor moments today and for me he isnt the type of player you spend that kind of fee on, that is a game changer. Bellingham and Enzo Fernandez have that bit extra all round and attacking wise that you go all out for. Lavia and Caicedo are potentially great players but the fees were crazy for both.

One thing I did think as he was forgotten about last season. Personally....if Caicdeo is £115m.....Bissouma is an absolute steal, I actually think he is the better player, he has similar defensive qualites and engine, the quality of simple recycling but he is just so good and calm on the ball and retention under pressure......£30m looks a fantastic bit of business to me if he kicks on this season at SPurs

 

[adexkola]

I think he meant Kanté.

Ah, never mind then

 

[Rajiztar]

You called it

West ham always do this to us. The second goal Antonio always played like peak Ronaldo 9 against us. As i said football funny old game and you can be a best team on paper but things like this always happen in football.

Pochettino should play his strong 11 from now on. No more out of position experiment. If not things could get ugly.

 

[bringbackbebe]

West ham always do this to us. The second goal Antonio always played like peak Ronaldo 9 against us. As i said football funny old game and you can be a best team on paper but things like this always happen in football.

Pochettino should play his strong 11 from now on. No more out of position experiment. If not things could get ugly.

That 2nd goal, it was more a case where the Chelsea defence thought they were operating in a black hole and time moved slower for them. That should have never been a goal.

 

[ArmaDino]

He had some poor moments today and for me he isnt the type of player you spend that kind of fee on, that is a game changer. Bellingham and Enzo Fernandez have that bit extra all round and attacking wise that you go all out for. Lavia and Caicedo are potentially great players but the fees were crazy for both.

One thing I did think as he was forgotten about last season. Personally....if Caicdeo is £115m.....Bissouma is an absolute steal, I actually think he is the better player, he has similar defensive qualites and engine, the quality of simple recycling but he is just so good and calm on the ball and retention under pressure......£30m looks a fantastic bit of business to me if he kicks on this season at SPurs

Bissouma was cheap because he had similar allegations to Antony and Partey. Spurs just decided to take a punt on him, while all the other clubs were waiting for his verdict.

 

[sglowrider]

Boehley should have just bought Brighton the club instead of piecemeal. From Potter to most of the Brighton starting 11 and a decentish stadium.

Certainly would have been around the same price as what he has spent so far there.

 

[Woziak]

Shows how fickle football fans are that a week ago a lot of United fans were clamouring for Caicedo and one bad game there is a complete change.

Same way people are already jumping on the Mount is shit bandwagon after two games.

Completely agree, it’s not the players fault clubs are stupid enough to play inflated fees and wages right now. Caciedo is a very good player, but he’s never worth £115m in a million years. The new DM seems to be the most important player after the CFW right now in most manager’s eyes, however someone who scores and assists goals are the true game changers.

The market is crazy and really only a handful of players should be valued at £100m plus, then the CM, AM, DM, CB providing they are Elite should be priced from £65m-85m, in a summer where Szobozszlai, Diaby, Lavia, Mount, Havertz and Tonali went for £50-65m, Caciedo, Rice and Bellingham went for £100m plus, the best value of the summer so far might be JWP for £25-30m or James Maddison for £40m, there’s a lot of players like Kovacic who are fair value at £30m as well.

 

[sglowrider]

Completely agree, it’s not the players fault clubs are stupid enough to play inflated fees and wages right now. Caciedo is a very good player, but he’s never worth £115m in a million years. The new DM seems to be the most important player after the CFW right now in most manager’s eyes, however someone who scores and assists goals are the true game changers.

The market is crazy and really only a handful of players should be valued at £100m plus, then the CM, AM, DM, CB providing they are Elite should be priced from £65m-85m, in a summer where Szobozszlai, Diaby, Lavia, Mount, Havertz and Tonali went for £50-65m, Caciedo, Rice and Bellingham went for £100m plus, the best value of the summer so far might be JWP for £25-30m or James Maddison for £40m, there’s a lot of players like Kovacic who are fair value at £30m as well.

Simple reason. Boehley is playing with OPM; thats why he really doesn't care how much he costs.

 

[Dr Foo]

It's incredible how short fused people are, but I guess that's what a forum brings. Making these statements after half a game here, EtH on the other thread etc. I told you so xxx

 

[Red in STL]

Cause it's a myth.

At least 90% of best players of PL in the last 10 years came from abroad : Haaland, De Bruyne, Gundogan, Salah, Mane, Firmino, Son, Bernardo Silva, Bruno Fernandes, Kante, Kompany, Allison, etc

Who was the last player made in PL that became one of the very best coming from another PL club with a lot of PL experience in his curriculum?

Kane it's the only one I can think in the last 10 years.

Definitely not Kane, his entire PL career was at Spurs

 

[sglowrider]

It's incredible how short fused people are, but I guess that's what a forum brings. Making these statements after half a game here, EtH on the other thread etc. I told you so xxx

Half the posters have the memory of a gnat.

 

[TheLord]

I don't remember a worse cameo debut in my lifetime of watching football. Add that to the hype, the 115m, it could be the all-time worst cameo debut. Not just the goal, there were three or four wrong passes, dispossession, and what not.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

I don't remember a worse cameo debut in my lifetime of watching football. Add that to the hype, the 115m, it could be the all-time worst cameo debut. Not just the goal, there were three or four wrong passes, dispossession, and what not.

Jonathan Woodgate at Real Madrid was worse. Bebe at United.

 

[sglowrider]

I don't remember a worse cameo debut in my lifetime of watching football. Add that to the hype, the 115m, it could be the all-time worst cameo debut. Not just the goal, there were three or four wrong passes, dispossession, and what not.

Joao Felix's red card on his Chelsea debut?

 

[Rajiztar]

That 2nd goal, it was more a case where the Chelsea defence thought they were operating in a black hole and time moved slower for them. That should have never been a goal.

Agreed should have taken out the ball and man at a same time. Take one card for team. Disasi needlessly fouled and got yellow card despite back up there previously. That made him tentative in that moment. So why took yellow card needlessly could bite back you.

Still very early but that ugly slow ponderous zombie football against packed defence shows up again. Quick passing and movement needed. Hope pochettino learned lot from this display.

 

[Zed is not dead]

He’s quite simply a talented yet inexperienced player. As I said in another thread it’s one thing to shine in a well oiled team and relatively low pressure environment, and another to survive when thrown into the lion’s den with big piece of meat around your neck.
He’ll come good eventually, but as always with youngsters, it’s more about their mental strength than their footballing talent.
Will he have the right attitude? Maybe. I thought he came on the pitch and was really arrogant, always asking for the ball even in bad positions (after 20 seconds Thiago Silva made big gestures to ask Caicedo to get up the pitch). There’s also his duel with Paqueta where he was trying to hard to be a billy big bollocks.
It either shows he’s hungry or he likes attention (a la Rudiger). One will make him come good, the other will make him bad on the pitch

 

[WeePat]

Joao Felix's red card on his Chelsea debut?

Nah he was the best player in the pitch until the red card. Yeah red card makes it a bad debut but he was actually playing really well.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I don't remember a worse cameo debut in my lifetime of watching football. Add that to the hype, the 115m, it could be the all-time worst cameo debut. Not just the goal, there were three or four wrong passes, dispossession, and what not.

He did say he wanted to become a legend. Mission accomplished.

 

[MegadrivePerson]

will finally be able to see the godfather of the press. Pochettino press. Hasn’t seen it since his early days at spurs. Caicedo was the missing piece as I stated before. With caicedo and Lavia chelsea will be able build from the back much better and allow more progressive pass from the back. Gallagher isnt that player and now they have fixed that. All that is left to fix is their attack and goalkeeper.

What did you make of his debut?

 

[alexthelion]

What did you make of his debut?

Funny how he's been silent since the match.

 

[Lecland07]

Cause it's a myth.

At least 90% of best players of PL in the last 10 years came from abroad : Haaland, De Bruyne, Gundogan, Salah, Mane, Firmino, Son, Bernardo Silva, Bruno Fernandes, Kante, Kompany, Allison, etc

Who was the last player made in PL that became one of the very best coming from another PL club with a lot of PL experience in his curriculum?

Kane it's the only one I can think in the last 10 years.

There are quite a lot:

Saka, Stones, Rashford, Vardy, Walker, Alexander-Arnold, James, Kane etc.

 

[Dumbstar]

Funny how he's been silent since the match.

He's probably on a sandy beach somewhere. Shouting "damn you, damn you all to hell!"

 

[Buckie]

Most in here are just having fun with this disaster debut. I don’t think anybody who thought Caicedo was great a week ago have changed their minds. It’s the nature of football. You drop a disasterclass, the memes will start. It’s a ruthless world out here.

This is true for sure. But it is also that he is now the most expensive EPL transfer of all time. Most clubs would have liked to have acquired him, but he is not one of the best players in the league and he has one season to his credit.

 

[Swiftm93]

Cause it's a myth.

At least 90% of best players of PL in the last 10 years came from abroad : Haaland, De Bruyne, Gundogan, Salah, Mane, Firmino, Son, Bernardo Silva, Bruno Fernandes, Kante, Kompany, Allison, etc

Who was the last player made in PL that became one of the very best coming from another PL club with a lot of PL experience in his curriculum?

Kane it's the only one I can think in the last 10 years.

Bale, Vardy comes to mind.