I am no tactician yet I understand the game as well as most armchair fans. The statement is relevant because Klopp did not buy most of the average attackers at his disposal, but has tweaked things to enable them to score more than you would expect, thus the attacking whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Now I don't think Klopp is special, I just feel with the amount we have spent on attacking players, many of which have delivered goals/assists in the past, we should be getting more offensively. I think many could allude to this. It is too easy to say, "all of our attackers are average, we need world class XYZ." Zlatan, Miki, Pogba are attacking players signed by Jose. Martial is one who he tried to buy at Chelsea. Mata is very decent. Could a manager as experienced as Jose, not devise a strategy to "play more attacking" with these guys? I mean Martial, Miki and Mata will never score many goals when asked to play as extra FB in addition to their attacking instincts as these aren't ways they have flourished in the past.
Mourinho - Appreciation Thread
- Thread starter Jacky Quacky
- Start date
lol did i make it too obvious. meh just hate the constant attempts to make everything he does seem greatYou don't say
Why not head to one of the 20 odd threads where people are giving him a good kicking then!
cbaWhy not head to one of the 20 odd threads where people are giving him a good kicking then!
I've said that you need to find the right profile of player for your system and you think i said we need world class players because our players our average. It takes time for players to get accustomed to a new system and sometimes you have to buy new players when current players dont adapt. Martial has consistently not met the demands of the system and has as a result been a squad player this season, the same with Luke Shaw. Rashford and Mata (before his injury) were meeting the demands and so were played more often, the same can be said with Mkhitaryan in europe (Jose even said that Mkhitaryan is not ready for the physicality and tempo of the league and he was right). Herrera was a nothing player under LVG and now he is part of the 1st team...because he fits the system!
Instead of looking at the qualities of players and how they fit into a system you just say that Liverpool's attackers are average (whatever that means) and that Klopp has 'tweaked things' to make them perform. Klopp does not play Sturridge as a no.9 because he does not have the movement or passing of Firmino, Firmino's lack of speed or strength does not impact his performances because that is not what is required of him for the team. Adam Lallana's strengths are his energy and quick passing which is why he has played well this season in the 'gegenpress' team. Players do not exist in a vacuum. Liverpool are not pulling up trees this season because they are reliant on Mane in attack and their defence is shite, why isnt Klopp just 'tweaking' things to fix his average defense? Remember when Klopp froze out Sakho who was their best defender because he did not meet his demands? Management isnt as simple as 'tweaking' things it is a process with lots of trial an error.
As for this nonsense that our attackers havent scored many goals because they are playing as fullbacks, anyone with half a brain can see that our attackers havent scored as many goals as they have because of bad finishing. We create more chances than Arsenal and Chelsea, we take more shots in the 6-yard box than every team in the league bar Man city. Our conversion rate is worse than most mid-table teams.
At previous clubs Lallana's strength was his silky dribbling ability, 2 footedness, yet he was known to fade at the end of matches due to fitness issues. Many believed he looked incapable of performing to this level of intensity on a regular basis.
perhaps because Liverpool's style sacrifices a sturdy defence for attack. Or having seen that they haven't much top quality in attack or defence (including in goal) he felt an attacking approach would get them more points as their defence could not be relied upon. Kind of like Brenton in his 2nd place season.
Interesting interpretation of Sahko there. Klopp was the one who restored him to the line up, also praised him "I can understand why they (fans) shouted his (Sahko) name. Mama was really spectacular defending and good playing football", Sahko was offered a new long contract under Klopp. He then got a sizable injury, impressed on his return and then had the doping scandal. In the pre season, he was then a naughty boy whilst on tour and hasn't been able to recover from that. 'Sakho had been late for the team's flight as well as for a subsequent medical treatment session and a team meal time.As a result, Sakho was demoted from the senior squad.' If this is what you meant by "not meeting demands" then cool. But it seems as though you feel Klopp didn't rate Mama's ability when in fact he did, but Sahko fecked it up with his attitude.
It has been noticed that attackers tend to finish better when been allowed to focus on attack. There are countless examples including young Hazard who pretty much admitted that being freed up has allowed himself to rediscover his form after the shocking last season. This is the same player who had won PFA, but could not maintain his scoring feats when being asked to balance defence and attack continuously. Chelsea were still creating chances but not winning games. Many things could contribute to this. If you know you don't have attacking freedom and may be in you own 3rd in 30 seconds, you may be more anxious when a chance comes your way. You can also be more fatigued which can effect your finishing.
Again you seem to be missing the wider context. A players qualities do not exist in a vacuum, Pogba's passing range is fantastic but it will not be a strength of his play if there are not runners to receive his passes. Lallana has shown countless energetic performances for both England and Liverpool, its not unusual for players with high energy to fade at the end of games. But what Klopp's system does is utilize his energy to press, pass and move. This then means that his energy becomes a strength of his play.
Every system has flaws, this is why thinking that Mourinho hasnt 'tweaked' his tactics to try to make players perform better is ludicrous. He has tweaked his tactics and they have not worked, hence why we have drawn so many games at home. This is why management is not as easy as playing the 'best' players and letting them play to their strengths. If you cater to the attackers too much then your defenders suffer (ie. Klopp and Guardiola) and vice versa. Finding a balance takes time.
Off the pitch is as important as on the pitch. Sakho failed off the pitch for the manager and was let go. Inferior players play over superior players all the time because they believe in the manager and his ideas. Klopp cannot afford any player to not give 100% because that is part of his system.
The last bit about focus on attack is just made up on your part. There is no chance you can actually have such an insight into the psychology of players to make a judgment about any sizeable amount of attackers. Hazard says he was given freedom because he didnt have to think about defence, meanwhile countless attacking players praise Mourinho for giving them guidance and assurance in their own abilities. Some attacking players like to roam around high up the pitch conserving their energy ie Hazard while others thrive off of being all over the pitch ie Sanchez.
I'm ashamed to say doubts are creeping in now.
Our midfield last night was Tuanzebe, fellaini, Mata. That is not the midfield for ajax.
Herrera got 20 mins
Carrick got 25 mins
Rashford got 20 mins.
Valencia rested
and Jose said Pogba is available for Palace
Give Pogba ~25 mins against palace, rotate the "core group" again and jose has perfectly set up the team for Ajax.
Jose has handled these last few games perfectly. No injuries, the legs are staying match fit. It's now all about mentally preparing them for the final.
Herrera got 20 mins
Carrick got 25 mins
Rashford got 20 mins.
Valencia rested
and Jose said Pogba is available for Palace
Give Pogba ~25 mins against palace, rotate the "core group" again and jose has perfectly set up the team for Ajax.
Jose has handled these last few games perfectly. No injuries, the legs are staying match fit. It's now all about mentally preparing them for the final.
At the moment we are playing like a dog who ha rolled onto his back and is waiting for his owner to tickle his belly. Abject and not good enough, regardless of who is representing the club during the match. These strikers cant score for s*it.
That's one way of looking at it.
Next season he and Guardiola will be under intense scrutiny, and Wenger as always will stay at Arsenal.
Massively disappointed with the season. It can still be salvaged by winning the Europa Cup and securing Champions League football. However the way the team has been set up in recent weeks with so many defenders and set up not to lose matches, this is not the Manchester United way. All the excuses about number of games and injuries. Manchester United are used to playing 60 games a season getting to finals. They have the biggest squad in the country in order to compete with the schedule
The most worrying thing for me during the past month is that the players who are getting opportunities to play dont even look like they want to cement their position in the starting line up. Add into the fact that many of these squad players are simply not upto the required level. Major work needed this summer, both in player turnover but also next season we cannot be adopting these tactics
The most worrying thing for me during the past month is that the players who are getting opportunities to play dont even look like they want to cement their position in the starting line up. Add into the fact that many of these squad players are simply not upto the required level. Major work needed this summer, both in player turnover but also next season we cannot be adopting these tactics
No doubt that if we win the final and get a straight CL group spot, commentators and anti-jose folks will dismiss this and talk about wenger or klopp having a good chance at CL through Europa.
We are heading into a final to guarantee a CL group spot and people want to focus on whether Jose is worse than moyes.
One damning stat is that even if we beat Palace at the weekend, this will be Man Utd lowest amount of wins in a Premiership Season. Are already 24 points behind the league champions & 7 behind Liverpool in fourth. Let that sink in.
Don't want to sound too RAWK-ish, but our league position doesn't reflect our performances. We should atleast be 10 points higher with the number of games where we missed clear cut chances (looking at you, Ibra). Combine that with the injury crisis and the ridiculous Europa + League Cup schedule, I think we're a fair bit better than our points total.
Next season, with an improved frontline and getting rid of some of the injury-prone / mediocre squad players, I expect us to challenge for the title and finish atleast within 6-9 points of the winners.
For now, the timproved spirit, mentality and attacking play (for 2/3 of the season) Jose has brought in means I'm relatively pleased with this season so far.
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Saw this on Twitter. Kind of the same now
At least the kid appreciates Jose
Who said history doesn't get repeated ?
If we park the bus tonight and end up losing....
Arrrgghhh, it doesnt bear thinking about.
Arrrgghhh, it doesnt bear thinking about.
Here's the thing with Jose, I think the guys that are in the team, and in the selection love him and that he connects very well with them. He requires a high level of commitment in all things to stay in the conversation regarding squad rotation and I think guys like Shaw, Lingard etc are aware. I think he is good to very good at tactical adjustments and I think he's great at having the pulse of his players. I've enjoyed the season, especially when we were playing extremely attacking football midseason with Ibra, Mata, Mkhitaryan, Rashford on immediate counter attacks after our hard pressing wins the ball. I'm hopeful this style will materialize as our calling card and will be further boosted by the offseason additions. I think we have the individual skill and ability to fight and win the ball and then keep it and turn it into an immediate attack due to the unbelievable skill of players mentioned above, plus Carrick and Valencia all of whom will work their brains out to win the ball and then have the bravery to play a cutting pass.
Like most, I've been critical of Jose's affection for Fellaini as he doesn't add the quality of passing and movement/quickness that I believe would be additive to the style of play described above but I can't deny that Jose has used him very well at times and he's affected the outcome of games in our favor.
All in all, I believe we're on the doorsteps to being returned to a level of play that can compete at the top level. Today's game will go a long way in accelerating that journey. I think Jose's ability to get results in big games will serve us well. The downside of this will be his tendency to set up defensively and protect... both a pro and a con in my opinion.
Like most, I've been critical of Jose's affection for Fellaini as he doesn't add the quality of passing and movement/quickness that I believe would be additive to the style of play described above but I can't deny that Jose has used him very well at times and he's affected the outcome of games in our favor.
All in all, I believe we're on the doorsteps to being returned to a level of play that can compete at the top level. Today's game will go a long way in accelerating that journey. I think Jose's ability to get results in big games will serve us well. The downside of this will be his tendency to set up defensively and protect... both a pro and a con in my opinion.
Europa League winners
COME ON I KNEW IT
Extraordinary tactics. Extraordinary performance.
TACTICAL MASTERCLASS
You bitter anti-jose twats can feck off.
Ajax: 2 shots on goal, both at Romero
MUFC 2 goals.
You bitter anti-jose twats can feck off.
Ajax: 2 shots on goal, both at Romero
MUFC 2 goals.
Nailed it tonight, absolutely nailed it.
Yea all the Mourinho haters can feck off.
He's been excellent.
Loved his celebrations at the end. This means so much to him.
He will be pleased. An european cup win for the history.
Two trophies, the man is a serial winner. Now just watch the quality of team he builds. This is the start of our rise back to the top.
Thanks Jose. Let's continue the progress.
Quite some OTT reactions here, considering how our PL season went.
Love the guy. I hope he stays at the club for a long time.
He was the one for the job 4 years ago. It's been tough at times this year, and he's made some questionable decisions, but his quality has shone at the very end to set us up nicely for next year.
That was a typical Mourinho tactical masterclass.
Felt like I was watching the chelski teams of old - minus the potency of duff/robben etc.
Felt like I was watching the chelski teams of old - minus the potency of duff/robben etc.
3 trophies and qualification to CL group stage. Successful season no matter what anyone can say.
Pressure will ease from him heavily and can make his transfers much easier. Next season we'll a different version of Jose.
Another thing. Jose can make tactical errors in any games but hell, in finals he's spot on almost every time.
Pressure will ease from him heavily and can make his transfers much easier. Next season we'll a different version of Jose.
Another thing. Jose can make tactical errors in any games but hell, in finals he's spot on almost every time.
Mourinho post match even better than his tactical masterclass during it. Two major trophies and three bits of silverware. fecking brilliant.
That was brilliant. Man marking their midfield..
I feel vindicated for never doubting the man.
..and the new reign begins.
..and the new reign begins.