Moussa Dembele (Lyon) - Take Him?

Adnan

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He’s not for sale. If a team fee they are being ‘generous’ to Gladbach by taking their main striker for a maximum of £30m they are probably mistaken. I suspect they are more than happy to keep Pléa, especially if one of the richest club in the world can’t see themselves willing to offer little more than they paid for him.
I wouldn't be too sure of that. Gladbach IMO will look to shift the 27 year old if a decent offer comes in. Plea is one one of the highest paid players at Gladbach and joined them in 2018 due to game time and the attacking nature of the league on Lucien Favre's advice. He is at a age now where it's ideal for him to take the step up and it would suit Gladbach too if they can shift him in the current crisis which would give Eberl and Rose funds to shape their squad for next season. Gladbach are a tier below Dortmund and will be affected even greater in comparison due to the lost revenue.
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

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Not claiming to be an ITK or anything but I've heard there are legs to the Dembele thing after all. I'm not overly enthused though but probably signals an end to Ighalo
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I only asked for clarity on a question you hadn’t answered. I know your opinion as I pointed out earlier and honestly I am bored of this back and forth. You aren’t adding anything new now.
It was already answered on the post #186 on this page. If you are bored, why not just read the post instead of making a false claim.

The contradiction as I have explained is you arguing on the one hand we need depth while being happy to play James/Greenwood as our starting RW. If Greenwood is not good enough to push Martial for a back up position then he’s not good enough to start in his weaker position. Just because James isn’t good enough to be a starter it doesn’t mean Greenwood is good competition it means that issue needs addressing. I understand your view now because you are now saying James and Greenwood is fine for RW to rotate between. I think you’re very wrong and when you keep saying I don’t understand it is funny! Just because someone disagrees with you it doesn’t mean that haven’t understood you. I simply believe you are wrong.
The purpose of having depth in striker position is so we can have someone to challenge Martial and act as rotation with Martial & Rashford so we don't need to overplay them, but in your previous post, you believed it as "backup".

Being part of starting XI doesn't make them as the focal players. With Bruno, Pogba, Martial & Rashford in the team, Ole makes them more as focal players in the team, in contrast to the role of Greenwood & James on the right which gives them less pressure on their shoulder.

Greenwood starts 6 games on the right and scored 6 goals & 1 assist. He starts 3 games as a striker and scored 0. It'll give you an idea why Ole played him more on the right than lone striker. I know you missed this point that I posted before but I'll say it again, Greenwood physically & his holding up play with centre back behind his back are still lacking to play as lone striker, this is why in his current level, he's much more effective playing on the right or as two striker position. Both roles provide him more space to get away from defenders and score. Greenwood is more in a category of complete striker, playing on the right will benefit him to learn and improve some aspect like other strikers who done it before.

Nobody is saying Sancho, Martial and Rashford are the best around and complete but they are very promising more so then Dembele and all three of them have shown far more promise in their careers then he has at any point in his. Sancho will complete the attack in the sense of having balance and top quality over the pitch unless you don’t think he is currently a top quality player or you think Rashford isn’t good enough for LF/LW or perhaps you think Martial? But as a three fluid I can’t see it not working well.

Daniel James is a player I like but if you’re honestly saying he’s good enough to start for us and offer balance when we all know he’s a LW naturally I seriously question your understanding of the squad as is.
James is not good enough to start for us to be competing winning the league. As per what you mentioned previously, we are not in that yet. At this current stage, James can still do the job until 2021 before we have the fund to sign Sancho.

I agree it’s unpopular. We know we disagree we’ve heard each other’s responses and I think we move on. The opinion is not based on what Ole wants because he has also scouted RW and Sancho so how are you deciding he wants a striker more? Can you read minds? No one can claim they know what he personally wants more between a RW and ST but you can assess the squad and make your own opinion.

You know I understand you’re being a wind up merchant now so I’m ending this discussion. If you don’t understand my position by now then as the old saying goes. Never mud wrestle a pig, you both get dirty but the pig enjoys it. It’s been emotional.
So? Means nothing because we also sent scouts to watch Dembele.

My unpopular opinion is about striker is more priority than RW, not based on Ole wants striker above winger. When I said "what Ole wanted" means that he really wanted a new striker & made it into priority. The fact that he wanted Lukaku to stay, he also wanted Haland despite having Greenwood. And despite of losing Haland, he still didn't want to put full faith on Greenwood and tried to sign striker in the last minute of the January window. At this point, Ole probably wanted both RW & ST equally. And realistically don't think we can sign both together if we can't secure Ighalo.
 

ovoxo

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Not claiming to be an ITK or anything but I've heard there are legs to the Dembele thing after all. I'm not overly enthused though but probably signals an end to Ighalo

Heard? Do tell..

Just saw Simon Stone say it’s unlikely United want to make Ighalo permanent as he was brought in as Rashford cover.
 

MartinRed

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Honestly, for the role we want our 9 to play he would be perfect in that sense.

He plays a very similar role for Holland/Lyon as a pressing striker that can hold the ball up/link play, and the wide men play the inside forward roles.
He is doing pretty well as right forward too and will cost us only 30M.
 

Lentwood

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Why do people seem to believe that a player coming in spells the end for a player in the current XI?

I said it throughout last year that our best XI was top 3 standard but our backup XI was probably relegation material. We can’t have such a reliance on individuals if we want to win trophies.

For me, a forward line with Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, James, Sancho and Dembele would be absolutely perfectly balanced
 

BenitoSTARR

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Why do people seem to believe that a player coming in spells the end for a player in the current XI?

I said it throughout last year that our best XI was top 3 standard but our backup XI was probably relegation material. We can’t have such a reliance on individuals if we want to win trophies.

For me, a forward line with Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, James, Sancho and Dembele would be absolutely perfectly balanced
I think everyone is in agreement on having a player like Dembele in the squad as back up would be good that’s not in question at all. I’d love to see us be able afford that this window but I can only see one and I’d rather Sancho be our focus now as he is more unique and slots right in.
 

yo@Kirk

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If United are going to buy a backup striker, the smart business decision should be a relatively unknown young player with the physical ability and technical skills to develop into a high quality starter at a bargain price. Edouard for 25m makes perfect since.

If given the choice, I doubt Greenwood would turn down a lot of playing time as #1 RW to get some playing time as #3 Striker. WhoScored gave Greenwood a remarkable 8.15 grade at the position, so I believe he'll be confident about playing the position at a high level. I can't see more than 50m net spend by United in the next transfer window, so no Sancho until at least summer 2021, imo.
 

Cliche Guevara

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I know a player that was playing in the Scottish Prem, as a pro, even he said that the Scottish Premiership isn't that special.
He said Celtic are miles better than any of the other Scottish teams, but that's due to their budget in comparisons, but would of said they were more higher parts of the Championship level.

The rest of the teams are comparable to the English League 2 level.

This was before Slippy took over at Rangers.
He sounds like a prick.

Actually he sounds just like Joey Barton. So, yeah.
 

jesperjaap

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Well there's Mason Greenwood and Tammy Abraham so it's not that bad, although obviously we'll need more than 2 strikers. CB strikes me as the potential problem position for future England teams. We don't seem to have produced much quality there since Maguire.
Yes internationally fine up front with those behind Kane, we dont have any centre backs though. I mean young or youngish strikers that could come straight into the side, not really any about, vast majority of the top strikers in the world are over 30
 

Scholsey2004

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Yes internationally fine up front with those behind Kane, we dont have any centre backs though. I mean young or youngish strikers that could come straight into the side, not really any about, vast majority of the top strikers in the world are over 30
You mean at club level? No, you're right. We need to produce a hell of a lot more premier League quality players to get back to where we were before the turn of the millennium. Realistically Dembele probably isn't any better than Kevin Campbell from Arsenal. You should be able to pick up domestic players of that level comparatively easily. The fact that it's difficult to do so isnt great.
 

Lentwood

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I think everyone is in agreement on having a player like Dembele in the squad as back up would be good that’s not in question at all. I’d love to see us be able afford that this window but I can only see one and I’d rather Sancho be our focus now as he is more unique and slots right in.
Yeah but my point is, why do we have to label some players “starters” and some “backup”? Why can’t we just have six forwards who compete for three spots on a game-by-game basis and are selected according to form, commitment and who suits our chosen tactic the best?

Surely that’s the Utopia
 

Adam-Utd

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Yeah but my point is, why do we have to label some players “starters” and some “backup”? Why can’t we just have six forwards who compete for three spots on a game-by-game basis and are selected according to form, commitment and who suits our chosen tactic the best?

Surely that’s the Utopia
That all sounds nice in an ideal world on paper, but at the end of the day only 11 players can play.

Back when we had the 4, Cole/Yorke were always the "first 2" and Solskjaer/Sheringham would fill in when needed. IF we can find players happy to do that then great, but I don't see it happening with somebody like Dembele.
 

BenitoSTARR

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Yeah but my point is, why do we have to label some players “starters” and some “backup”? Why can’t we just have six forwards who compete for three spots on a game-by-game basis and are selected according to form, commitment and who suits our chosen tactic the best?

Surely that’s the Utopia
I think I’m using the labels based on expectation and reality of how a squad works and based on what I know of Dembele compared to what I know of Martial and honestly I don’t expect Dembele to push Martial out of our best XI. So I label Dembele “back up” as he’ll be rotated into the first XI when required but I believe when Martial is fit he starts.

Dembele is going to have the conversation about playtime if he’s going to sign for us and every manager knows a huge part of the job is managing expectations. You tell Dembele the likely scenario that yes you will get a lot of games but your job is to try and knock Martial off his perch and not the other way around.

So absolutely I’d love to have 6 who compete and we have Martial, Rashford, Greenwood and James for definite now. So as I’ve said in previous posts having another good striker and a starting quality winger are IMO the most important things to add.
 

nokillingmoths

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Yeah but my point is, why do we have to label some players “starters” and some “backup”? Why can’t we just have six forwards who compete for three spots on a game-by-game basis and are selected according to form, commitment and who suits our chosen tactic the best?

Surely that’s the Utopia
It is. Sounds revolutionary but you're right. Cole, yorke, ole and Teddy were all starters really. They all just started different games.
 

BenitoSTARR

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It is. Sounds revolutionary but you're right. Cole, yorke, ole and Teddy were all starters really. They all just started different games.
That’s not true.

In the PL alone in the 1998/99 season

Yorke 34 apps 34 starts 2876mins
Cole 32 apps 26 starts 2355 mins
Solskjær 19 apps 9 starts 859 mins
Sherringham 17 apps 7 starts 748 mins

Yorke and Cole were clearly the starters and Solskjær and Sherringham were the back up or rotation players. They were very good high quality squad players but there was a clear hierarchy and to suggest otherwise is factually incorrect.

https://fbref.com/en/squads/19538871/1998-1999/Manchester-United
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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That all sounds nice in an ideal world on paper, but at the end of the day only 11 players can play.

Back when we had the 4, Cole/Yorke were always the "first 2" and Solskjaer/Sheringham would fill in when needed. IF we can find players happy to do that then great, but I don't see it happening with somebody like Dembele.
Why not? Not all strikers like Lukaku refused to compete for the spot. Jesus been at City for years competing with Aguero and be part of the rotation. Martial being flexible that he can play on the left means Dembele or whoever coming will allow us to rest Rashford & Martial when needed.

Whether we sign Sancho or we sign striker, at this current level an additional player won't make us into challenging the league unless if Martial & Rashford transformed into world class which no guarantee next season. Imagine if Martial got injured until end of the season with only Greenwood to replace him, can't imagine club as caliber as United's expectation is going to rely on 19 & 20 years old front three for the rest of the season, might cost us top 4.
 

RedPed

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Why are people hung up over Ighalo's age? We paid £24m for van Persie and got 1 1/2 good seasons out of him. We could easily get 2 or 3 solid years out of Ighalo, he will get goals, be a great back up, give us something different and not cause any problems on or off the pitch.....and he wants to be here.

£20m for Ighalo would be great business. I would be really pissed if he went to Newcastle and we spent £60m on Dembele. That money could be better utilized elsewhere.

We wouldn't be taking a punt on Ighalo.
 

Lentwood

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That all sounds nice in an ideal world on paper, but at the end of the day only 11 players can play.

Back when we had the 4, Cole/Yorke were always the "first 2" and Solskjaer/Sheringham would fill in when needed. IF we can find players happy to do that then great, but I don't see it happening with somebody like Dembele.
Yeah but as others have pointed out, players aren't solely confined to one role in modern football. Cole, Yorke, Solskjaer and Sheringham could 'only' play as forwards.

The current crop are far more flexible. One game you could have Rashford as AML, Martial as CF, Sancho as AMR. The next you could have Dembele as CF and Martial drops out. Then you could have Martial AML and Rashford dropping out. Remember, we will play 60 games next year
 

Stojan Stamenic

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I think that he's just what we need for that No9 role. His hold up play and work rate are both excellent, and he will bring that new dimension in our attacking play that Martial doesn't have.

Attacking trio Rashford - Dembele - Greenwood or Rashford - Dembele - Sancho would be fantastic; and Martial would be great for the rotation on both left wing forward and central forward...

Similar to when Saha was bought after RvN left; he wasn't better football player than Ruud, but he brought important other dimension to our play (better work rate, great hold up play and overal physical presence in attack) that we lacked. As a result, both Rooney and Ronaldo played much better with Saha in team than with RvN in team.
 

Adam-Utd

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Yeah but as others have pointed out, players aren't solely confined to one role in modern football. Cole, Yorke, Solskjaer and Sheringham could 'only' play as forwards.

The current crop are far more flexible. One game you could have Rashford as AML, Martial as CF, Sancho as AMR. The next you could have Dembele as CF and Martial drops out. Then you could have Martial AML and Rashford dropping out. Remember, we will play 60 games next year
That's true but players also need consistency. We saw that happened with Rashford/Martial being moved from pillar to post and they never got settled. You don't see City/Pool moving their forwards around to keep everybody happy.
 

Tony247

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Why are people hung up over Ighalo's age? We paid £24m for van Persie and got 1 1/2 good seasons out of him. We could easily get 2 or 3 solid years out of Ighalo, he will get goals, be a great back up, give us something different and not cause any problems on or off the pitch.....and he wants to be here.

£20m for Ighalo would be great business. I would be really pissed if he went to Newcastle and we spent £60m on Dembele. That money could be better utilized elsewhere.

We wouldn't be taking a punt on Ighalo.
Fully agree. Ighalo can be a good squad player for next 2 years. It will also give enough space to Martial and Greenwood to grow into more central role.
 

tjb

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Greenwood's development over the next three seasons is the key here. He is clearly talented and really it is a matter of how he plays and when he becomes a top player that will determine where we go in attack. It's very risky to have Martial as our go to no.9, having dembele as competition is reasonable. However, I would actually like us to sign an older player to make up for the youth of the rest of our front line. A player that is reliable and that would fade out when Greenwood starts coming to the forefront. Good enough to compete and possible replace Martial, but old enough to allow for a smooth transition to Greenwood. I also expect us to sign a right winger regardless of whatever we decide to do. If we signed one that could also consistently provide goals, we would not need as much goalscoring reliance on Martial and Rashford and would not have to get a rotation striker. A great modern team should have 5 good attackers in the squad; the real question here is is Greenwood good enough at the moment to take up one of those space given the inconsistencies of Martial. For this to be true Martial or Greenwood need to show improvement. If not, it would make sense to get good competition for Martial. On his own he may not be a title winning striker, but with competition, he may prove to be. Drogba/Gudjohnson/Crespo from 04-06 comes to mind.
 

V.O.

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If United are going to buy a backup striker, the smart business decision should be a relatively unknown young player with the physical ability and technical skills to develop into a high quality starter
Given that profile, I think I'd have a look at Victor Osimhen at Lille, rather than Edouard.
 

RkkMan

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Why are people hung up over Ighalo's age? We paid £24m for van Persie and got 1 1/2 good seasons out of him. We could easily get 2 or 3 solid years out of Ighalo, he will get goals, be a great back up, give us something different and not cause any problems on or off the pitch.....and he wants to be here.

£20m for Ighalo would be great business. I would be really pissed if he went to Newcastle and we spent £60m on Dembele. That money could be better utilized elsewhere.

We wouldn't be taking a punt on Ighalo.
RVP was the best ST in the PL at the time. 24m was a huge bargain Ighalo is nowhere near the same quality and paying 20m for him when he`s almost 31 on the basis of 2/3 good months is short sighted thinking. For all we know his performances will seriously dip if he makes his move permanent. In this current market he`s worth no more than 10m and the 60m Dembele fee is likely just speculation. Likely he costs 30-40m which is better value for money than Ighalo.
 

flappyjay

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Why are people hung up over Ighalo's age? We paid £24m for van Persie and got 1 1/2 good seasons out of him. We could easily get 2 or 3 solid years out of Ighalo, he will get goals, be a great back up, give us something different and not cause any problems on or off the pitch.....and he wants to be here.

£20m for Ighalo would be great business. I would be really pissed if he went to Newcastle and we spent £60m on Dembele. That money could be better utilized elsewhere.

We wouldn't be taking a punt on Ighalo.
This. In a couple of years when Odion is showing his age Greenwood will have matured enough to be relied on incase of a long-term injury
 

Sea-Cow

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How does Dembele compare against Victor Osimhen?

Edit -- spitballing on other forward options -- what about that guy from Club Brugge, Dennis I think. He was a young Nigerian and I remember being impressed by him.

I was also impressed by two of AZ young forwards, so maybe I am just easily swayed by our opposition.
 
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RedPed

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RVP was the best ST in the PL at the time. 24m was a huge bargain Ighalo is nowhere near the same quality and paying 20m for him when he`s almost 31 on the basis of 2/3 good months is short sighted thinking. For all we know his performances will seriously dip if he makes his move permanent. In this current market he`s worth no more than 10m and the 60m Dembele fee is likely just speculation. Likely he costs 30-40m which is better value for money than Ighalo.
You've got no basis on which to make that assumption and there's just as much chance of Dembele coming to United and flopping. You don't necessarily have to be the best to make an impact in a team.
 

yo@Kirk

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Given that profile, I think I'd have a look at Victor Osimhen at Lille, rather than Edouard.
I have United at 50m net spend for the summer window. The highest rumoured offer for Edouard is 25m from Arsenal; Osimhen's highest rumoured offers are 75m from Liverpool and Tottenham. Osimhen doesn't fit in my budget.