devilish
Juventus fan who used to support United
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2002
- Messages
- 61,714
According to Sky Bet, Moyes is the 6th favourite to be sacked next
I wouldnt mind if that would mean bringing a certain director back to management.
According to Sky Bet, Moyes is the 6th favourite to be sacked next
Just as it'd be ridiculous to have them finish 5th.He inherited the champions, it'd be ridiculous for him to immediately start chop changing the squad.
Whilst people go on about the defeats to Liverpool and City, I actually feel that United most worrying performance was the 2-0 win at home to Palace.
I watched the whole game and United looked so laborious and slow I could not see how they were going to score until the penalty was given, and then I figured it would be a thrashing given Palace were down to 10 men, but instead it took until the end of the game and a wonder FK from Rooney to get the killer goal. It didnt look like the typical mark of champions grinding out a tough result, it looked like a team struggling to adapt to the changes of the new manager and staff. Remember this is a wholesale change, and I never felt SAF and his staff were given enough credit on here, as there were some who seemed to think that simply because the team walked the league with SAF it would all be exactly the same and they would still be just as good without him.
If you do things our way, whereby you sack managers every season near enough then you need a lot of money behind you, United don't have that, they need to stick by Moyes even if they finish 4th or 5th this season or it could possibly end up going the way of Liverpool.
I agree.
Barcelona have had 4 managers in the last 6 years, and continued to win. Real Madrid are constantly dumping their manager, and remain competitive.
A manager who inherits a squad that won the league by 10 points, is offered a blank cheque to improve that squad, and then fails to finish in the top 4, shouldn't expect to keep his job.
Not a chance will he be sacked.We won the league by 11 points last year, if we come 5th I believe he would be sacked.
Moyes isn't exactly helping matters though. Apart from picking the wrong lineups, targeting Fellaini and Baines as two of the major transfer targets was a mistake, not saying that they are bad players, but there were alternatives available, specially for Baines. One thing you need to do when you are accused of turning your new club into your old club is to not go after players from your old club. It'd certainly have got the media off his back. In a way it's a good quality too that he didn't give a damn about the media.Not a chance will he be sacked.
The problem with Moyes is, hes not even picking the right team, which will make fans get on his back. Constantly picking Ashley Young in the starting line up ahead of superior players doesn't help matters. He will be questionned. Ferguson could pick whatever team he wanted, people may have moaned but his position would never be questionned, Moyes doesn't have that luxury.
Losing Rene was a huge loss, he knows the club inside out, hes a great coach and was well respected for his take on the game. We've had him replaced with a couple of people from Everton, and Ryan Giggs as a player/coach. That doesn't fulfill me with optimism, but then again, neither did Mike Phelan. Our first team isn't great, but it shows what a remarkable job Ferguson did in making these players challenge and win titles even with the weaknesses we had. With the current team now, can Moyes make these same players with the same weaknesses Fergie had win the league? I'm not so sure. Best thing Moyes can do though is plug those weaknesses, like hes tried with the signing of Fellaini (who hasn't been impressive) and pick the right team then we have a good chance.
A great team doesn't need to change the way it plays depending on the opposition, great teams let the oppositions worry about them, and even if they do it's not to the extent that we have needed to. A great squad gives the option to cause oppositions problems by potentially lining up in different formations to counter their threats. Ours is a great squad, not a great team.Why do people think our first team isn't great? It is, if you get correct players firing on all cylinders.
That's the set up though, not the quality of team, we've not utilised the sheer quality these players offer for quite a while IMO. I've seen people say that our first team isn't as good as City's or Chelsea's and it's nonsense - if you can get 3 of Valencia, Nani, Kagawa, Rooney and Welbeck on top form behind Van Persie it's an amazing side that could match any team on their day. It doesn't work when you play Young or Giggs in big games obviously so you have to work your way around limitations they bring to the table.A great team doesn't need to change the way it plays depending on the opposition, great teams let the oppositions worry about them, and even if they do it's not to the extent that we have needed to. A great squad gives the option to cause oppositions problems by potentially lining up in different formations to counter their threats. Ours is a great squad, not a great team.
We are as good as any side in England, it's continental football that I'm talking about, and for a side to be considered great, they have to make a mark on Europe.That's the set up though, not the quality of team. I've seen people say that our first team isn't as good as City's or Chelsea's and it's nonsense - if you can get 3 of Valencia, Nani, Kagawa, Rooney and Welbeck on top form behind Van Persie it's an amazing side that could match any team on their day. It doesn't work when you play Young or Giggs in big games obviously so you have to work your way around limitations they bring to the table.
Yeah, we are miles behind Bayern, Barcelona and Real Madrid if we're talking about pure quality of the team, that I agree with. We could handle Barca and Madrid on our day (not with the recent set up though), we'd lose 10 out of 10 finals on neutral ground against Munich mind. Go out with Young and the same attitude we showed against City and we're shipping 5-7 goals against any of them.We are as good as any side in England, it's continental football that I'm talking about, and for a side to be considered great, they have to make a mark on Europe.
Because, to begin with, our defence isn't great at all. One of the biggest myths on the caf is that we have a great defence. Rio is past it, Vida is not the player he used to be, Evra and Carrick are aging as well. And their possible replacements, the likes of Evans, Smalling, Jones, etc., are far from being world class at the moment. Further, our CM isn't great either. The only part of the team where we have world class quality is the attack. RvP and Rooney are great and (realtively ) consistently provide the goods. A great attack doesn't amount to a great team, obviously.Why do people think our first team isn't great? It is, if you get correct players firing on all cylinders.
That's all true but the thread has gone in a direction where there's a debate about whether we'll finish in the top four and should it be a sackable offence if we don't. And with this squad it would be a fecking travesty of the highest proportions to not make the CL.A great team doesn't need to change the way it plays depending on the opposition, great teams let the oppositions worry about them, and even if they do it's not to the extent that we have needed to. A great squad gives the option to cause oppositions problems by potentially lining up in different formations to counter their threats. Ours is a great squad, not a great team.
Vidic has looked exceptional since his return, what are you talking about?!Because, to begin with, our defence isn't great at all. One of the biggest myths on the caf is that we have a great defence. Rio is past it, Vida is not the player he used to be, Evra and Carrick are aging as well. And their possible replacements, the likes of Evans, Smalling, Jones, etc., are far from being world class at the moment. Further, our CM isn't great either. The only part of the team where we have world class quality is the attack. RvP and Rooney are great and (realtively ) consistently provide the goods. A great attack doesn't amount to a great team, obviously.
Even if you think our squad isn't all that (which I don't agree with), the article ignores the fact that we just had a summer transfer window to reshape it and we didn't sign anyone before deadline day.This is worth a read. A fair assessment IMO (although he's wrong about Evans)
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...united-is-just-not-that-enviable-8835616.html
Amazing argument from an intelligent, articulate guy.Not half as silly as the bollocks you were spouting.
You're a great poster mate but I don't find Ian Herbert's apology either enlightening or at all convincing.This is worth a read. A fair assessment IMO (although he's wrong about Evans)
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...united-is-just-not-that-enviable-8835616.html
You think Vidic was exceptional vs City? I don't think he's had any exceptional games so far. He is still very good but not world class any more, IMO. I don't share your optimism about Carrick and Evans, either. Yes, there have been playes like Pirlo and Scholes who were consistently great at Carrick's age. But they are completely different players. For instance, Carrick is big and his mobility is under question. Carrick and Fellaini in CM is a very unimpressive combo, arguably the least mobile in the Prem. I'm a fan of Evans, he is a great bloke and a very good defender. Not close to world class though, IMO.Vidic has looked exceptional since his return, what are you talking about?!
Carrick only recently turned 32 which isn't old for a central midfielder - arguably Pirlo's best season came in his debut season at Juve and subsequent Euro 2012 when he was 32, same for Scholes in the 2006-07 season which is arguably his best with us and he was again 32, Makelele in Mourinho's Chelsea team was 32 - just a few examples but its clear to me that entering your early 30's doesn't necessitate immediate decline for a central midfielder particularly one like Carrick who relies on his brain not his physique.
Evans is very close to being world class, he's been our best defender for the past two seasons. Thought this underrating of Evans had stopped.
Again with the airbrushing...
I seem to remember beating QPR at OT two seasons ago in similarly laborious fashion. They parked the bus, Young won a contentious penalty, QPR had a man sent off, we scored from the spot, but only managed to secure an underwhelming 2-0 win.
The manager was none other than Fergie!
And just like that, the existance of the newbie system is justified.Some people in the Newbs' are suggesting that Moyes steps down, Harry Redknapp takes over, and Dave becomes his assistant.
Whilst all the doom and gloom is (typically and understandably after Sunday) overstated, most of this is factual. I can't imagine that Ferguson would have reacted to our initial run of fixtures this season by deciding it was essential that Rio played six on the bounce. The insistence on picking Young is baffling. Fellaini wouldn't have been my choice as a United player but at the moment I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. But I just don't see why we set up in a straight 4-4-2 against City away. Does Moyes really think Fellaini is able to handle Yaya in full stride? Fellaini and Carrick needed help in that midfield area and it's not surprising that our best spell in the game came after Cleverly came on - he really should have been on at half time at the latest. I know it's not good to humiliate Young by hooking him before half time but he really was being particularly atrocious and it was clear the midfield needed sorting. The other thing which was very alarming and so untypical against City was the number of players losing concentration under the pressure from City. Valencia, Smalling, Vidic, Rio, Fellaini all guilty of real schoolboy errors in defence.He hasn't rotated the two aging centrebacks enough.
Starting Young when there are better options.
Starting Young and Giggs against Liverpool and then playing Giggs right wing.
Not making changes at half time during the city game.
Signing Fellaini in a panic and overpaying for him.
Not shown any tactical awareness in the way we have been set up to play - its very much 442 wing play or bust.
He just goes one from one mistake to another at the moment.
Is he lacking confidence?
He might have had a team in mind, but this performance has altered his thinking. He might be thinking if I pick some of that lot we will lose.One thing that did worry me is when he said he hadn't even thought about the next game, I'm sure ferguson always said he was always thinking 2/3 games ahead.
I believe the changing of the defensive guard needs to begin this season...it's the right time. Moyes needs to be pro-active in this.I reckon most managers with a pair of world class centre backs in their mid thirties would give their eye teeth to have three young central defenders with as much potential as Evans, Smalling and Jones already at the club.
No, I don't think so. You could say that he has been lacking a very offensive attitude, but that's not the same thing. I think he has been cautious, preparing for a very tough set of fixtures. He has gone with what he thought was the safest option in the matches against Chelsea, Liverpool and City.He hasn't rotated the two aging centrebacks enough.
Starting Young when there are better options.
Starting Young and Giggs against Liverpool and then playing Giggs right wing.
Not making changes at half time during the city game.
Signing Fellaini in a panic and overpaying for him.
Not shown any tactical awareness in the way we have been set up to play - its very much 442 wing play or bust.
He just goes one from one mistake to another at the moment.
Is he lacking confidence?
Another theory is that he believes the Liverpool game is now a must win so he'll play his "big guns" and not give Nani, Kagawa, Januzaj, Evans and Hernandez a game.He might have had a team in mind, but this performance has altered his thinking. He might be thinking if I pick some of that lot we will lose.
That article is way off the mark as far as I am concerned, we have a damn good squad with several 'game changers' (many sat on the bench on Sunday) - it is clear that Moyes has a difficult job to follow Fergie and is trying to make some changes to our style so needs to be given some time before we can judge.This is worth a read. A fair assessment IMO (although he's wrong about Evans)
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...united-is-just-not-that-enviable-8835616.html