The board would need to accept losses on all the low intensity players if you're going to commit to a Klopp clone; Pogba, Matic, Martial, most of the back four
Nagelsmann, Rose and Hasenhuttl
- Thread starter Foxbatt
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Nagelsmann or Hasenhüttl
Not sure why it's even a discussion – Nagelsmann is in another league to other two and he has been the most promising young manager for quite a while now. Bayern getting Flick seems like a perfect opportunity to snub him but I can't remember the last good move that our current board did in terms of our long-term planning and team/club's development.
It's really only Pogba, Matic, Martial and Mata who would probably struggle. The rest of our midfield and attack should fit well.
The likes of Fred, McTominay, VDB, Bruno, Rashford (he used to work hard so hopefully a manager who prioritised a system that required it would bring that back), Cavani, James and Lingard should all do well. Greenwood and Shaw I'm not sure about, but I'm hoping a properly organised system would see them step up in that regard. Likewise I think that would be a big thing for AWB learning when to get forward and get back, although his lack of ability on the ball may see them look to replace him.
I really like Hasenhuttl, I think he'd be an positive appointment for us. You'd like to think we could pry him from Southampton, even during the season.
I only know Hasenhüttl from his Leipzig days. They were very good at counterattacking but often struggled against smaller teams because they weren't that good in possession. They were also quite naive in defense often.
Is this the same in the PL or has he developed as a coach?
But regarding their Bundesliga performances I'd rank them:
Rose > Nagelsmann >>> Hasenhüttl.
The reason I tend to prefer Rose over Nagelsmann is because the latter one sometimes seems to make a special tactical change just for the sake of it. Things like suddenly playing with a false 9, without a real DM/CM and stuff like that, often without success.
When he was still at Hoffenheim, Kramaric complained that Nagelsmann sometimes expects them to switch the formation and tactics 4 or 5 times during a game and in the end the players are just confused.
As a fan watching from outside this seems to me as he just wants to proof what a tactical genius he is. And I think that he would be an even better coach of he trusted his players and established tactics more instead of doing something crazy and special for a single game.
He really, really reminds me of Pep in this regard.
Is this the same in the PL or has he developed as a coach?
But regarding their Bundesliga performances I'd rank them:
Rose > Nagelsmann >>> Hasenhüttl.
The reason I tend to prefer Rose over Nagelsmann is because the latter one sometimes seems to make a special tactical change just for the sake of it. Things like suddenly playing with a false 9, without a real DM/CM and stuff like that, often without success.
When he was still at Hoffenheim, Kramaric complained that Nagelsmann sometimes expects them to switch the formation and tactics 4 or 5 times during a game and in the end the players are just confused.
As a fan watching from outside this seems to me as he just wants to proof what a tactical genius he is. And I think that he would be an even better coach of he trusted his players and established tactics more instead of doing something crazy and special for a single game.
He really, really reminds me of Pep in this regard.
- Nagelsmann - going to Madrid probably though
- Pochettino - changed Southampton instantly, went to Spurs and changed them instantly with his play style, and had them as a competitive team for 4/5 years punching above their weight, but with a front footed approach.
- Rose - only came on the rader this past year really for most.
- Hassenhuttl - maybe its just a Southampton thing, they're good at staying the same regardless of managers or players they sell even.
Ok we need to assess this properly
Looks
Nagelsmann - Looks a bit like your older brothers mate, who's a bit weird and whenever you see him suggests you make plans to play Squash sometime soon. You never do.
Rose - A bit of a silver fox... nice little comb-back and beard combo that makes you worry a bit when your mum starts hanging out with Marco from work
Hassenhuttl - He's the bloke thats worked with your dad for years who once tried to swindle him out of all his money. Shifty.
Point to Marco
Dress Sense
Nagelsmann - It's bold, it's out there, and frankly I'm all about it. A Man United manager needs to stand out alone from the pack... much like opposition players in our box.
Rose - He's Steve from work, who comes in on Wednesday in jeans, and when you ask him why, he winks at you and says "for Steve it's always dress-down Friday" ... feck Steve
Hassenhuttl - He's a tracksuit manager... which is unacceptable, the last time we took a tracksuit manager and made him put a suit on he ended up looking like a mortician.
Point to Julien
Literal Name Value
Naglesmann - What is a Nagles? I don't know... it's not really pun worthy is it?
Rose - The team can come out to Seal... who doesn't want to see the team come out to Seal?
Hassenhutl - Stick that up your....
Point to Ralph
.... It's a dead heat.
Looks
Nagelsmann - Looks a bit like your older brothers mate, who's a bit weird and whenever you see him suggests you make plans to play Squash sometime soon. You never do.
Rose - A bit of a silver fox... nice little comb-back and beard combo that makes you worry a bit when your mum starts hanging out with Marco from work
Hassenhuttl - He's the bloke thats worked with your dad for years who once tried to swindle him out of all his money. Shifty.
Point to Marco
Dress Sense
Nagelsmann - It's bold, it's out there, and frankly I'm all about it. A Man United manager needs to stand out alone from the pack... much like opposition players in our box.
Rose - He's Steve from work, who comes in on Wednesday in jeans, and when you ask him why, he winks at you and says "for Steve it's always dress-down Friday" ... feck Steve
Hassenhuttl - He's a tracksuit manager... which is unacceptable, the last time we took a tracksuit manager and made him put a suit on he ended up looking like a mortician.
Point to Julien
Literal Name Value
Naglesmann - What is a Nagles? I don't know... it's not really pun worthy is it?
Rose - The team can come out to Seal... who doesn't want to see the team come out to Seal?
Hassenhutl - Stick that up your....
Point to Ralph
.... It's a dead heat.
That's exactly what I'd want us to do as well. What he did with the Red Bull teams seems to be exactly what we need here - someone who can come in and build the entire system for continual success going forward.
Naglesmann looks like he could either be the most exciting or the biggest bust. I think he would want to play very aggressive and it would be very entertaining, but you better have players that can get back in a hurry.
I would much rather a change of manager and coaching staff right now and see how they get on with the current squad for the rest of the season. I honestly think we have a decent squad who are hugely under performing and a better manager and coaching team should easily get top 4 before getting rid of a few and bringing a few in during the Summer.
"Top clubs" because all of those top clubs are in great shape for a manager. Barca and Madrid are both currently a shit show, Bayern isn't getting rid of Flick, Liverpool and City are set, Juve is doing their Pirlo experiment. I guess I could see PSG, but managers seem to have a tough time there for whatever reason even though that team should be throttling most.
If/When Ole is gone, I'd argue we are as set up as any for a manager to come in. Our board/owners are shite, but we boast a loaded academy and young squad that shows real potential and are already not that far off the pace. It isn't a complete teardown and rebuild anymore, we need a manager that can bring in a few players and take the next step of consistency near the top. Nagelsmann comes in and buys a CB, CDM, and striker and we are probably on our way.
I'd say the amount of points Southampton drop from winning positions should disqualify Hasenhüttl from the conversation. I think Nagelsmann is the standout candidate, but I think Rose is a fantastic option and he doesn't look a twat.
Think it should work in his favor. Despite having an inferior team he still want to attack. He isn't going defensive. It would work better with better team and better players
Nagelsmann has that arrogance, confidence and presence. I get young Jose vibes from him in that sense.
I don't really buy that. Hasenhuttl still has the highest finish in the Bundesliga with RBL & has far more experience/success with Aalen/Ingolstadt. They are all good coaches but I think of them all Hasenhuttl is the safest bet, not only has he got the most experience but he has built a team in the PL (not only the BL) and proven his ability to build a team through coaching and without needing loads of signings.
Would be a great move but its Glazers and Woodward. Nothing will happen and we will be stuck with Ole.
Hassenhuttl doesn't seem like he'd be the right fit - or at the very least we'd have to go through another long period of rebuild. He doesn't seem to have a Plan B that involves less running and still winning and that's pretty important when we're playing 50 games a season. You'll just burn your players out in half a season this way.
Nagelsmann has shown he's more pragmatic, he employs the press strategically like Klopp does. He's also one of those that's massively over achieving with the squad he has and is ready for a step-up. I don't buy the argument about us not having a DoF. We don't have one guy that does all transfers but from all indications, we have a committee of people (including the manager) that does signings with the manager having a veto. Our transfers / transfer targets have also gotten a lot better for the last couple of years, so I think we should be okay there.
Poch again has been very successful with a very limited budget, so maybe he'd be even more successful if fully backed. The complaint about not winning anything again doesn't fly by me. I'd be pretty happy with consistent top four / title challenge and deep CL runs to start with and if we really don't take that next step under him after achieving that, then we can always replace him as well.
Nagelsmann has shown he's more pragmatic, he employs the press strategically like Klopp does. He's also one of those that's massively over achieving with the squad he has and is ready for a step-up. I don't buy the argument about us not having a DoF. We don't have one guy that does all transfers but from all indications, we have a committee of people (including the manager) that does signings with the manager having a veto. Our transfers / transfer targets have also gotten a lot better for the last couple of years, so I think we should be okay there.
Poch again has been very successful with a very limited budget, so maybe he'd be even more successful if fully backed. The complaint about not winning anything again doesn't fly by me. I'd be pretty happy with consistent top four / title challenge and deep CL runs to start with and if we really don't take that next step under him after achieving that, then we can always replace him as well.
I think post Ole, Woody will be intent on Poch. It would be refreshing to see him go for Nagelsmann or Rose though.
It's like Michael Jordan's basketball drafting (as an owner; sorry for the out of football analogy) – the safest bet is not the one you should choose if you want your team to break through. You should choose the one with the highest potential – and Nagelsmann's tactical variety and modern vision clearly separates him from the rest. He faced the best Bayern side since the treble-winning one (well, the previous treble-winning one) and Dortmund filled with young talents boosted by Haaland coming in January and crashing all sorts of Bundesliga records.
Hasenhuttl's Leipzig was a very good team that was built on a strong foundation of Ragnick & co. Nagelsmann came in and changed it all to a very unique collective that is, perhaps, the most tactically adaptive side since... I'm not actually sure. Maybe peak Simeone's Atletico, but even they were way more conservative. It's the reason why they've reached the CL semi-finals last year. They've stopped Bayern a few days ago, outplayed PSG on both occasions etc. – and that's without their only real star player that was sold to Chelsea in the summer. He makes mistakes – and us trashing them at Old Trafford was not just a coincidence; but he learns from them – and he has blew Ole out of the water in the second game by a fantastic tactical play, despite us having a quite clearly superior squad.
I mean, when have you last seen a 5-1-2-2 formation used? With no real strikers as well... And not only used, it was a formation that proved to be the perfect antidote for Ole's traditional big game plan. I just don't see the same level of tactical thought from neither Rose nor Hasenhüttl.
Not sure what exactly did Hasenhüttl did at Aalen & Ingolstadt that was comparable to Nagelsmann's work at Hoffenhaim. He took them from a relegation side to Champions League – and actually outperformed Hasenhüttl's Leipzig in the league next year playing beautiful attacking football, scoring more than anyone bar Bayern Munich & getting a second consecutive CL finish. Even in his last, relatively unsuccessful season, they've played fantastic proactive football and scored an astonishing 70 goals (only Bayern & Dortmund with Reus, Sancho & co. had scored more).
Same with Rose, really. They're very good managers, but Nagelsmann is really special – and he has more tools to succeed at any, even the very top, level. He's also an astonishing 20 years younger than Hasenhüttl and a good 11 years younger than Rose.
I bet you that Poch is still above Nagelsmann on our shortlist and don't see how that changes in the eyes of the board
Hassenhutl for me. His team plays some good stuff with a bunch of average players and that's the type of coach I think we need. A coach that can get players to perform more than the sum of their parts since the Glazers will never back the manager to have the best squad in the league. What I found interesting was his past experience. He took 2 different teams facing relegation when he arrived and promoted them within 2 seasons. He also took Leipzig to second position in their debut in the Bundesliga. Asides from all this he has PL experience.
I think Nagelsman is too young for our incomplete board. Not sure about Rose though since I don't watch his club
A good coach will mean feck all though if our recruitment is shit but it's gotten better under Ole and bI'm hoping it stays that way whatever the coach
I think Nagelsman is too young for our incomplete board. Not sure about Rose though since I don't watch his club
A good coach will mean feck all though if our recruitment is shit but it's gotten better under Ole and bI'm hoping it stays that way whatever the coach
I bet Phil Neville is above these lot on our shortlist.
I don't like Nagelsmann. Smug. Mocks me. He might be some sort of a violator.
Yeah we both know how much our club love a romantic managerial appointment first Giggsy and now Ole.
I am not gonna lie I feel jealous that RB Leipzig get to see Nagelsmann's swagger on a weekly basis after seeing what we are stuck with right now
Has nagelsman gotten to a champion league final? Revolutionized a team in a competitive league and transformed them into a top club?(Hasenhult) Leipzig team were superior. I doubt you will see mourinho, pep, or klopp wanting to take over rb Leipzig when he is done there.
Pochettino is easily the best choice which I have stated before anyone else and I can be quoted that he will be the manager to take us back on top if he comes here. Not saying that nagelsman is a bad manager, he is my second choice behind Pochettino, but Pochettino is less of a risk as he had done it in the premier league. The 5-0 trashing by us showed me that nagelsman still has some more learning to do. He needs to leave rb and establish himself at another club. I honestly would love to see how he does at Arsenal. If nagelsman can achieve what Pochettino achieve at spurs with arsenal, then he can be held on the same pedestal. Or if he doesn't want to leave Germany, just achieve something similar to what klopp achieved at dortmund
I appreciate the passion in your reply and by no means am I saying Nagelsmann is not a good coach. This is just personal preference. I don't know how to measure Hoffenheim versus Aalen/Ingolstadt in honesty because Hoffenheim were a vastly better team than both pre Nagelsmann. I'd argue that Hasenhuttl's time with Ingolstadt is more impressive as they were bottom of the second tier & CL places in the Bundesliga are more open (look at Schalke, Mochengladbach and even Hasenhuttl's RBL breaking in) but both have a successful track record in a relevant European league. That should be the minimum requirement for United or any PL manager.
I'm torn on the tactical flexibility part because so far it is hit and miss - United are a not a good team and we beat them 5-0 - and the PL is undoubtedly more competitive than the BL. He atoned for the error but he has a lot more leeway for mistakes in the BL. Again it is personal preference but what I really like about Hasenhuttl's Southampton (and also dislike about Ole's United) is he has a style and you know they will try to impose themselves on you every game, they won't be passive or reactionary. Southampton were going to be relegated when he came in and to have them in 5th in the PL is insanely good. They won't be able to stay there but it really is remarkable considering the funds and players they have, especially now Wolves, Leicester, Everton, Spurs, Arsenal are all 'big' spenders along with the likes of us, Chelsea, City and Pool.
My personal preference is Hasenhuttl because I feel like his style of 4222 works in the PL, produces good football and I do think value should be placed on prior experience (the fact he can say he's built 4 teams now, Aalen, Ingolstadt, RBL, Soton that have all been successful is impressive. Plus and he's hardly safe in the way he plays, Nagelsmann is just even more extreme and maybe that wouldn't suit the PL at the moment - look at who is top of the league for example.
It seems like our main difference is I don't see the tactical variation/flexibility as a positive and I also don't see why him being younger than Rose/Hasenhuttl is relevant - if anything it's a negative for me - given it means, by no fault of his own, that he has far less hands on experience. He might well be the next GOAT manager, he might be the next Villas-Boas, only time will tell!
Got a chuckle out of me, sadly not far off
He was called ''Baby Mourinho'' by Tim Wiese few years ago. Tactically he is more close to Guardiola and Klopp though.
I think it is going to be Poch but nothing he has done makes me believe that he is better than at least Nagelsmann or Rose.
Poch deserves a chance to prove that he can make the step up to a bigger club,although right now Spurs are looking like the better team.
Sure, lets continue the merry go round and hire, fire, hire, fire, hire, fire and hire again. This strategy has worked great since SAF left so we should continue to ensure we become an average club.
Would prefer that to just sticking with an ex player who is way out of his depth. People need to accept that the days of someone managing a club for years has long gone now
yes we should until we get someone who has a clue about coaching a top football club. It has not been detrimental to Bayern or Real or Barca either. They keep sacking until they find someone who can win trophies for them.
We will become an average club with mediocre managers.
We are expected to be better than that by our die-hard back the manager despite all his faults.
I completely agree we should keep looking until we find the right manager no matter how many attempts it takes.
When Madrid sack Zidane they'll be in for Ole.
The 'Has' for me. Really turned it around after the 9-0.
The 'Has' for me. Really turned it around after the 9-0.
Here's the thing though. Ole's good matches have been much better than Moyes, LVG and Mourinho's good matches by far IMO. This says we are headed in the right direction. Could he be better? Of course. The problem is the grass isn't always greener and things might get worse and worse if we fire and hire a few more times.
With Moyes, yes I agree. But with Jose and LVG, no way unless he wins a trophy this year. yes we need to fire and hire until we get the right guy. Most business would be bankrupt if you keep the incompetent CEO in charge for the fear if you fire him the next guy may be worse. You do your due diligence and hire the best man for the job. Yes Woodward fecked it by hiring him in the first place after we beat PSG.
I think if we want Naglesmann we need to actually sort ourselves out and approach him soon or I see him replacing Klopp at Liverpool. Which would be sickening.
Not saying we should get him but I watched the Leeds documentary and you could tell the players would work their arses off for Bielsa and run through a brick wall for him. Bar a couple, would our players do that for Ole?
Not saying we should get him but I watched the Leeds documentary and you could tell the players would work their arses off for Bielsa and run through a brick wall for him. Bar a couple, would our players do that for Ole?
Yeah Bruno, Cavani & Rashford would but others not convinced