Nani

[Name Changed]

Where did I say there most didnt perform? In contrast I said few (that's little isnt it?) didnt show their best, not more

You said a few and not few. There's a difference. When Pogue asked you to name a few, you named two, Evans and some bloke called Goggs.

My bad, I should have said a few and not most. I didn't look back. But saying a few didn't perform suggests that a number of players didn't perform.

 

[Godfather]

You said a few and not few. There's a difference. When Pogue asked you to name a few, you named two, Evans and some bloke called Goggs.

My bad, I should have said a few and not most. I didn't look back. But saying a few didn't perform suggests that a number of players didn't perform.

Yeah well that's my fault, as far as my English is concerned
They weren't that bad neither, but I want to point out, that also an overall good performance against such weak teams shouldnt be underrated

 

[Name Changed]

Yeah well that's my fault, as far as my English is concerned
They weren't that bad neither, but I want to point out, that also an overall good performance against such weak teams shouldnt be underrated

True. But it should not be overrated either. It's somewhere in the middle.

 

[Godfather]

True. But it should not be overrated either. It's somewhere in the middle.

Yeah agreed. But surely important for some of our players to get a game again

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Agreed. If his decision-making improves dramatically he is going to be a super super player. Can do everything with the ball on his feet, pace, fantastic shooting skills, probably our best crosser, very good at taking on defenders. Already has four goals so far this season (last season he had four goals and 14 assists), I hope he gets a few more with Cup games coming up.

Agreed

 

[Striker10]

Agreed

I'll tell you something incredible. People have been critical of the boy etc, but he's hardly played and scored the same amount of goals as he did in the whole of last season. I find that amazing

 

[Logan!]

I think Nani has been harshly treated by some people here and on other United forums. The general feeling on one forum I visit was that he was crap yesterday, which makes me wonder which game they were watching becuse I thought Nani was really good. His decision making still leaves a little to be desired, but his overall game was great yesterday. He was involved in most of our good attacking moves and created several chances for himself and his team mates.

Some people forget he hasn't played regulaly for quite a while and will in all likelihood be nowhere near match fit. If yesterdays performance is any indication of how he'll play if he's fully fit and given a run in the team, then I can't wait to see his name on the teamsheet again. While he doesn't necessarily offer the same work rate as Park, he certainly has far more quality and he created more chances in one game than Park has all season.

 

[Brwned]

I'll tell you something incredible. People have been critical of the boy etc, but he's hardly played and scored the same amount of goals as he did in the whole of last season. I find that amazing

He's hardly played because he's been awful almost every time he has played, he's been a liability.

 

[horselesspaul]

yong and lernin.
I hope he knows that he's wanted here.

 

[Godfather]

I think Nani has been harshly treated by some people here and on other United forums. The general feeling on one forum I visit was that he was crap yesterday, which makes me wonder which game they were watching becuse I thought Nani was really good. His decision making still leaves a little to be desired, but his overall game was great yesterday. He was involved in most of our good attacking moves and created several chances for himself and his team mates.

Some people forget he hasn't played regulaly for quite a while and will in all likelihood be nowhere near match fit. If yesterdays performance is any indication of how he'll play if he's fully fit and given a run in the team, then I can't wait to see his name on the teamsheet again. While he doesn't necessarily offer the same work rate as Park, he certainly has far more quality and he created more chances in one game than Park has all season.

Qualitiy post

 

[dave2528]

"Goggs" will have better games (that's the second time you've spelt his name wrong this morning, WTF?) but was solid enough.

Agree that Evans made a couple of crucial errors and has been struggling a wee bit, in his last couple of appearances but he wasn't all that bad. As a central defender, a single mistake can cause all sorts of problems, which is why there are so few central defenders as young as Evans playing at this level. Much easier to make one or two mistakes per game and get away with it, when you're playing as a winger like Nani

So it's a bit silly to try and claim that Nani somehow managed to "perform", whilst others weren't able.

See the matchthread

What he said. Someone in the match thread referred to Giggs as Goggs and it's kind of caught on. I for one think it's hilarious.

 

[Raven Blade]

I'll tell you something incredible. People have been critical of the boy etc, but he's hardly played and scored the same amount of goals as he did in the whole of last season. I find that amazing

Thats an impressive statistic. We expect our attacking players to get goals on a regular basis. This is one area where Nani has improved since last season and hopefully he will start to produce the goods until May.

yong and lernin.
I hope he knows that he's wanted here.

I hope that is true as well. I get too much of a feeling from some supporters on this forum and in other places that they would rather see him gone. That would be a real shame.

 

[dave2528]

I think Nani has been harshly treated by some people here and on other United forums. The general feeling on one forum I visit was that he was crap yesterday, which makes me wonder which game they were watching becuse I thought Nani was really good. His decision making still leaves a little to be desired, but his overall game was great yesterday. He was involved in most of our good attacking moves and created several chances for himself and his team mates.

Some people forget he hasn't played regulaly for quite a while and will in all likelihood be nowhere near match fit. If yesterdays performance is any indication of how he'll play if he's fully fit and given a run in the team, then I can't wait to see his name on the teamsheet again. While he doesn't necessarily offer the same work rate as Park, he certainly has far more quality and he created more chances in one game than Park has all season.

I know personally I've been harsh on the lad in part because he seems to have the air of a player that's an established and first choice selection, instead of the young and developing talent that he is.

Maybe also it's in part to his diving and rolling around like someone that just took a bullet in the leg after seemingly any contact.

Add to that his penchant for blasting the ball into the 2nd tier seats from 30 odd yards out while teammates are screaming for the ball and it's added up to some very frustrating theater.


I will say that yesterday was a good showing by him and a definite step in the right direction. I'm all for running him out there against Derby.

 

[utdalltheway]

he's frustrating to me because he is talented but a lot of times he goes and fecks it all up. he'll do a great run and then pass terribly or carry the ball too much and lose it easily.

that said, he was good yesterday so hopefully he'll do the business against Derby. a run of a few games, which this month should bring, should help his form.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I know personally I've been harsh on the lad in part because he seems to have the air of a player that's an established and first choice selection, instead of the young and developing talent that he is.

Maybe also it's in part to his diving and rolling around like someone that just took a bullet in the leg after seemingly any contact.

Add to that his penchant for blasting the ball into the 2nd tier seats from 30 odd yards out while teammates are screaming for the ball and it's added up to some very frustrating theater.


I will say that yesterday was a good showing by him and a definite step in the right direction. I'm all for running him out there against Derby.

That's exactly where I'm at too.

 

[Godfather]

I know personally I've been harsh on the lad in part because he seems to have the air of a player that's an established and first choice selection, instead of the young and developing talent that he is.

Maybe also it's in part to his diving and rolling around like someone that just took a bullet in the leg after seemingly any contact.

Add to that his penchant for blasting the ball into the 2nd tier seats from 30 odd yards out while teammates are screaming for the ball and it's added up to some very frustrating theater.


I will say that yesterday was a good showing by him and a definite step in the right direction. I'm all for running him out there against Derby.

Fair and reasonable.
Good post

 

[Chris H]

he created more chances in one game than Park has all season.

...against a team that will be in League One next season. In the Premiership, he might not have created that many all season either. I like Nani*, but he's not moving ahead of Park in the rotation based on how he plays against relegation-struggling Championship teams in the FA Cup.

Someone noted above that he has matched his goal tally from last season, but I think that statistic is misleading. The four he has scored this season, combined, have had less of an impact than the first he ever scored for the club, that screamer against Tottenham. He's had a dubious penalty vs. Southampton, two in in the Carling Cup, and the 4th goal of a 4-0 rout of West Brom. He's scoring more, in part, because of the way Ferguson is deploying him this season - against weaker or less motivated opposition in the Cups. Against the better Premierhsip clubs he has produced very little, and he still has to convince Ferguson that he can do the job at that level.

*Love Park though.

 

[Chris H]

The upside to his poor league form is that his talent has shone through against the weaker opposition he's faced, helping us advance very smoothly in both the FA and Carling Cups. Should have a chance to add to his goal tally Wednesday, as Park will almost certainly be rested for the Chelsea match this weekend.

 

[Logan!]

...against a team that will be in League One next season. In the Premiership, he might not have created that many all season either. I like Nani*, but he's not moving ahead of Park in the rotation based on how he plays against relegation-struggling Championship teams in the FA Cup.

It doesn't matter who it was against, the point I was making is that he's a more productive player than Park. I love Park's commitment to the cause and the fact that he'll run around for 90 minutes, but he brings very little to the team in terms of an attacking threat. There was a very good reason why Nani got in the Champions League final squad and Park didn't.

Everytime Nani has an average/bad game everyone jumps on his back, but I never see any posts slating Park for his lack of end product. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather not see posts slating either of them, but the criticism that Nani gets is way over the top.

We've been spoilt by our other Portuguese talent and now some fans expect Nani to be exactly the same as Ronaldo. But Ronaldo in his first two seasons was much the same as Nani is now, cocky, confident in his own abilities, but inconsistent.

 

[Alex]

REckon he will score a winner to beat a big club club this year. Did it last year v Spurs, yes not a big club but the goal that put United on their way. As for penalties only Ronaldo stands in his way as Harg is Hurt

 

[Chris H]

It doesn't matter who it was against, the point I was making is that he's a more productive player than Park.

Of course it matters who it's against!

Against a team like Southampton, I agree with you that Nani is going to contribute more toward victory than Park could, because teams like that can't defend him and he'll be very productive. Against better teams however, he is not nearly as "productive", his defense is not that great, his decision making at times is awful, he gives the ball away far too much and his concentration isn't what it should be. Whereas Park, for all the reasons that have been named in this thread, will more often than not play pretty damned well, and contributes more toward the end result than Nani would. Look, I'm not slating Nani, and I hope he'll come good, but you can't possibly take this game as evidence he should move ahead of Park in the rotation. He was excellent, and he has been consistently excellent against weaker sides. but against stronger sides, he has been consistently poor - which means, incidentally, that posters slating him for being inconsistent are off the mark.

So we'll see him midweek against Derby, who are in the bottom half of the Championship, and he'll probably chew them up. Then we'll see Park on Sunday against Chelsea, and there's a pretty good chance he'll do an excellent job against one of the strongest teams in the world. A job similar to the one he did in September, where his all-around performance was excellent and he scored our only goal in a 1-1 draw.

 

[Logan!]

Of course it matters who it's against!

Against a team like Southampton, I agree with you that Nani is going to contribute more toward victory than Park could, because teams like that can't defend him and he'll be very productive. Against better teams however, he is not nearly as "productive", his defense is not that great, his decision making at times is awful, he gives the ball away far too much and his concentration isn't what it should be. Whereas Park, for all the reasons that have been named in this thread, will more often than not play pretty damned well, and contributes more toward the end result than Nani would. Look, I'm not slating Nani, and I hope he'll come good, but you can't possibly take this game as evidence he should move ahead of Park in the rotation. He was excellent, and he has been consistently excellent against weaker sides. but against stronger sides, he has been consistently poor - which means, incidentally, that posters slating him for being inconsistent are off the mark.

So we'll see him midweek against Derby, who are in the bottom half of the Championship, and he'll probably chew them up. Then we'll see Park on Sunday against Chelsea, and there's a pretty good chance he'll do an excellent job against one of the strongest teams in the world. A job similar to the one he did in September, where his all-around performance was excellent and he scored our only goal in a 1-1 draw.

Why do you keep picking one line out of my posts and ignoring the rest?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I'll tell you something incredible. People have been critical of the boy etc, but he's hardly played and scored the same amount of goals as he did in the whole of last season. I find that amazing

I don't. It's typical of our fans. They never want to wait for development. They' d rather we sell a young player if he shows any signs of inconsistency and imaturity. Not matter how talented he actually is. Or what a good attitude he has on the pitch.

 

[uae]

That's bollocks.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

It isn't bollocks. Just check out the stick Fletcher used to get and Nani gets now. Some are even claiming the unknown Tosic is now a danger to Nani's squad place.

 

[MelvinYeo]

Of course it matters who it's against!

Against a team like Southampton, I agree with you that Nani is going to contribute more toward victory than Park could, because teams like that can't defend him and he'll be very productive. Against better teams however, he is not nearly as "productive", his defense is not that great, his decision making at times is awful, he gives the ball away far too much and his concentration isn't what it should be. Whereas Park, for all the reasons that have been named in this thread, will more often than not play pretty damned well, and contributes more toward the end result than Nani would. Look, I'm not slating Nani, and I hope he'll come good, but you can't possibly take this game as evidence he should move ahead of Park in the rotation. He was excellent, and he has been consistently excellent against weaker sides. but against stronger sides, he has been consistently poor - which means, incidentally, that posters slating him for being inconsistent are off the mark.

So we'll see him midweek against Derby, who are in the bottom half of the Championship, and he'll probably chew them up. Then we'll see Park on Sunday against Chelsea, and there's a pretty good chance he'll do an excellent job against one of the strongest teams in the world. A job similar to the one he did in September, where his all-around performance was excellent and he scored our only goal in a 1-1 draw.

It's a little bit unfair on Nani that he does not consistently produce against big sides, in fact it's something where he has done well in turning it on against the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool whom he scored against last season. He does have the quality to produce it against the big sides because he is a good player, he is not only a flat track bully, he is a player who has quality which you seem to want to ignore. His infuriating matches have come in all sorts of matches, not only against good sides, which suggests to me it is down more to inconsistency rather than the opposition being weak. Granted the match was too easy for him, but I don't see anyone making the same point about Berbatov? (not criticising Berbatov in anyway)

If he sorts his head out to be able to know when to stay out wide where he can put in excellent delivery, and when to go on his own, he will become one of the best wingers in the game.

 

[Chris H]

Why do you keep picking one line out of my posts and ignoring the rest?

Sigh. Okay, because you demanded it...Multi-Quote Madness. I'm bringin' it.

It doesn't matter who it was against, the point I was making is that he's a more productive player than Park.

Wrong...and wrong.

I love Park's commitment to the cause and the fact that he'll run around for 90 minutes, but he brings very little to the team in terms of an attacking threat.

It's true that Park does have three lungs, but he also contributes in every other phase of the game. Far from being one-dimensional, he is what is known as a "very good footballer". As for not being an attacking threat...that's simply not true. I won't go into detail because it's been said many times before.

There was a very good reason why Nani got in the Champions League final squad and Park didn't.

It was a tough call, and although I think am one of the biggest Park-backers on this forum, I can understand Ferguson's decision. He wanted a different starting lineup for tactical reasons, and probably thought Nani might have more of an impact coming off the bench. I was thrilled that our two young substitutes, Nani and Anderson, came through for us in a do-or-die penalty taking situation. They both showed tremendous balls. However, you make it sound as though because Nani was picked for the biggest match of the season, Ferguson obviously rates him more highly. This is simply wrong. Park started every match for the last two months of the season, a time when Nani spent his time either coming on as a sub or sitting on the bench. The only exception being April, when Park was actually rested during a league game against Chelsea so that he would be fresh for the second leg of the CL final against Barca. That gamble paid off by the way, as a well-rested Park was outstanding all evening, one of our best players on the pitch according to the Caf. As I stated a few pages back, Ferguson valued Nani for 19 minutes at the end of a single match, but relied on Park, time after time, for every other match in the most important two months the season - the most successful season the club has has had in ten years.

This is not my opinion. These are facts.

Everytime Nani has an average/bad game everyone jumps on his back, but....{edited}.....confident in his own abilities, but inconsistent.

Seems reasonable.

Better?

 

[Chris H]

he has done well in turning it on against the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool whom he scored against last season.

Nani was a better player last season. Against decent sides, he seems to have regressed this year.

He does have the quality to produce it against the big sides because he is a good player...he is a player who has quality which you seem to want to ignore.

Meh, I ignore nothing. Only a fool would say he lacks quality, and my mother raised none of those. Personally I'm not one of the people calling for his (evil) head when he has a bad match, and I'm not in this thread so that I can criticize him. However I am compulsive about defending the honor of Park Ji-Sung, and it pisses me right off when posters complain that Nani should be playing in his stead. Some day Nani could be a better player than Park. But as of today he is not.

His infuriating matches have come in all sorts of matches, not only against good sides

True, but none of his good matches come against good sides. Not this season anyway. He has struggled so much against mid-table teams that Ferguson doesn't even trust him to play against the elites - he's logged 13 minutes combined vs Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea this year. Long story short, Nani=good, Park=better.

 

[Logan!]

none of his good matches come against good sides. Not this season anyway.

he's logged 13 minutes combined vs Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea this year.

No further comments necessary.

Ok then, maybe a picture.

 

[MelvinYeo]

Nani was a better player last season. Against decent sides, he seems to have regressed this year. Meh, I ignore nothing. Only a fool would say he lacks quality, and my mother raised none of those. Personally I'm not one of the people calling for his (evil) head when he has a bad match, and I'm not in this thread so that I can criticize him. However I am compulsive about defending the honor of Park Ji-Sung, and it pisses me right off when posters complain that Nani should be playing in his stead. Some day Nani could be a better player than Park. But as of today he is not.True, but none of his good matches come against good sides. Not this season anyway. He has struggled so much against mid-table teams that Ferguson doesn't even trust him to play against the elites - he's logged 13 minutes combined vs Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea this year. Long story short, Nani=good, Park=better. Now if any of you other suckers want to step to Park, you'd best tool up, because I'll be paying you a visit. And I will be brief with all y'all mothafeckers. I think you know.

I was one of those who wasn't convinced by Park when he came but he has proven me absolutely wrong and I am happy about that. Just that I feel that Nani has the potential to become one of the best in the world, and that he hasn't been given a fair chance this season. This thread is about Nani anyway and it is disappointing that he hasn't been given as much of a chance this season especially recently along with Anderson when those two performed admirably last season when they had to adapt to a new life here. He hasn't been given a chance to play even against some of the lesser sides which I think is rather unfair and stalling his development.

 

[Chris H]

...it is disappointing that he hasn't been given as much of a chance this season especially recently along with Anderson when those two performed admirably last season when they had to adapt to a new life here.

I've definitely been surprised Anderson hasn't played more, especially when Ferguson has seen fit to start him against Liverpool and Arsenal. In Nani's case, I'm assuming Ferguson has been less than impressed with the way he has played and trained this year. Obviously I know nothing about what goes on in training, but he has not appeared as focused as he needs to be on the pitch, and these things tend to carry over to training as well, or vice versa. Everyone can see he's got a lot of talent, but when confronted with decent opposition this season, too often he doesn't seem to have his head screwed on straight. Perhaps beating up on teams in the Cups will give him a platform from which he can work his way back into Ferguson's good graces.

 

[Brwned]

I was one of those who wasn't convinced by Park when he came but he has proven me absolutely wrong and I am happy about that. Just that I feel that Nani has the potential to become one of the best in the world, and that he hasn't been given a fair chance this season. This thread is about Nani anyway and it is disappointing that he hasn't been given as much of a chance this season especially recently along with Anderson when those two performed admirably last season when they had to adapt to a new life here. He hasn't been given a chance to play even against some of the lesser sides which I think is rather unfair and stalling his development.

You do realise that the main reason he didn't get to play against the weaker sides was because he was playing so poorly whenever he got a chance? I think it was against Zenit that he put in the worst performance from a United player all season.

It's his own fault.

 

[anything about now]

Don't know why people keep having to compare Nani to Park. They are both useful to the club. Park is more experienced and consistent, therefore warrants getting picked ahead of Nani at the moment. But Nani is technically better and has much bigger potential. If Nani was the same age as Park i'd consider flogging him about now. But he's still young so we should get behind him.

An obvious example of bias is that whenever Anderson skies one over the goal, people laugh. When Nani does it, people curse. I know his decision making is still a big problem but i'm fairly certain that some people are being a bit unreasonable when judging him at times.

 

[Brwned]

It doesn't matter who it was against, the point I was making is that he's a more productive player than Park. I love Park's commitment to the cause and the fact that he'll run around for 90 minutes, but he brings very little to the team in terms of an attacking threat. There was a very good reason why Nani got in the Champions League final squad and Park didn't.

Everytime Nani has an average/bad game everyone jumps on his back, but I never see any posts slating Park for his lack of end product. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather not see posts slating either of them, but the criticism that Nani gets is way over the top.

We've been spoilt by our other Portuguese talent and now some fans expect Nani to be exactly the same as Ronaldo. But Ronaldo in his first two seasons was much the same as Nani is now, cocky, confident in his own abilities, but inconsistent.

It happens all the time. Just look in the Park thread.

 

[Chris H]

An obvious example of bias is that whenever Anderson skies one over the goal, people laugh. When Nani does it, people curse.

Anderson seems like a jolly little fellow, but Nani has an evil head. Some people can't get past that.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Anderson seems like a jolly little fellow, but Nani has an evil head. Some people can't get past that.

Tis true. The play-acting and petulance doesn't win him any friends either.

If I'm honest, the deification of Anderson is no less mysterious to me than all the grief that Nani gets. Surely it's not all about the jolly little fellow vs the evil head? Are football fans really that shallow and stupid? Oh wait...

 

[Logan!]

Congratulations. You have taken a civilized discussion and turned it childish shit-slinging. Since both your and Captain Picard's time is too precious, I can only assume you'll be leaving the thread. On behalf of the Caf, let me just say that you'll be missed. Your poor manners and devastating use of emoticons have been an inspiration to us all, as has your inability to respond substantively to reasonable points of disagreement.

Anyway, good luck and god bless.

Ok then, I'll see if I can be 'substantive' and 'reasonable'.

In answer to a comment by me that stated "he's a more productive player than Park", you answered:

wrong

Allow me to give you some facts.

Nani:

Four goals

Three assists

Park:

One goal

NO ASSISTS

These are stats for just this season. Park, who you tell me is "better" than Nani, has contributed not one single assists this season. Here was me thinking that assisting goals was the main objective of a winger. Nani, who you are quick to point out hasn't played much this season, has three assists and four times as many goals as Park. It would seem that my comment that "he's a more productive player than Park" seems quite reasonable.

You also state "As for not being an attacking threat...that's simply not true". Well I do believe the facts above simply contradict your statement. Thus my comment that "Park brings very little to the team in terms of an attacking threat." would seem to be true. And just for the sake of it I'll use your own words against you:

This is not my opinion. These are facts.

Substantive enough yet? Ok I'll continue.

As for the Champions League games, Park was started in the away leg at Barca because he'll harass their players for 90 minutes of what is a tough away game. Fergie rarely plays open attacking football in such big games so it would make sense to include Park in the starting XI.

Park was actually rested during a league game against Chelsea so that he would be fresh for the second leg of the CL final against Barca

I don't know what you're trying to prove by saying that Park was 'rested' for the Chelsea game so he'd be fresh to face Barca. Both Park and Nani started the Barca game so the fact that Park didn't play against Chelsea proves only that Nani was preferred ahead of Park in what was a potential title decider. Nani also started more games last season.

none of his good matches come against good sides. Not this season anyway

he's logged 13 minutes combined vs Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea

How is he supposed to have played well when he hasn't been on the pitch? You're judging him in games that he hasn't even playing in

Long story short, Nani=good, Park=better

You got the names the wrong way round clearly. The stats prove it and so does common sense.

Im not a Park basher in any way, I just hate the way everyone rounds on Nani and expects miracles from him in every game. He's young, his decision making is poor at times, but he's still got a hell of a lot more end product that Park. Don't confuse work rate with quality.

 

[Brwned]

You also state "As for not being an attacking threat...that's simply not true". Well I do believe the facts above simply contradict your statement. Thus my comment that "Park brings very little to the team in terms of an attacking threat." would seem to be true.

To say that Park doesn't bring much in an attacking threat is a gross overstatement and he may not be directly involved in the goals but he is more often than not indirectly involved in a lot of them.

 

[Logan!]

To say that Park doesn't bring much in an attacking threat is a gross overstatement and he may not be directly involved in the goals but he is more often than not indirectly involved in a lot of them.

So is Nani but nobody gives him credit for it, why should Park get it?

In terms of end product....Nani > Park by a mile.

 

[Brwned]

So is Nani but nobody gives him credit for it, why should Park get it?

In terms of end product....Nani > Park by a mile.

Probably because he isn't involved in it as much?

Undoubtedly, but that is not the sole factor to picking the team. It does seem to be the majority on here, but thankfully it isn't in Sir Alex's eyes.