The answer is yes, he was a bad president.
Obama's Legacy
- Thread starter Eboue
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The answer is yes, he was a bad president.
He was a good President who made many mistakes, I’d imagine some Democrats are scared of criticising him though.
For people interested in this debate, who consider Obama a bad president, the question is, who was a good president?
I'm more interested in his ranking. I'd rank him in the Lyndon Johnson tier.
I'm more interested in his ranking. I'd rank him in the Lyndon Johnson tier.
Exactly!
There are no good presidents. This country is rotten to the core. But that doesnt make Obama good.
As far as Presidents who he'd probably rank somewhere in the upper-middle. Someone who ran on a more progressive platform than he ever intended to implement, relatively liberal socially but with a lot of conservative financial instincts. A relatively sensible voice domestically compared to his opponents and quite hawkish internationally (goes with the territory I suppose) but also someone who failed to inspire any actual long-term change that's needed in America. His defenders will argue he was just doing what he could but his approach was arguably flawed in the Republicans consistently made gains during his tenure. Although the party as a whole would obviously need to take some responsibility for that as opposed to him as an individual.
As a Democrat he comfortably ranks behind someone like FDR and probably ranks behind LBJ too on the domestic front at least.
As a Democrat he comfortably ranks behind someone like FDR and probably ranks behind LBJ too on the domestic front at least.
He could've been much better if he didn't squander his first two years attempting to play ball with the Republicans. His generally weak and feckless foreign policy was also a problem in terms of dealing with Putin, ISIS, the Arab Spring, Afghanistan etc.
Truman was a good president.
Best in my lifetime (Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, the Orange Buffon). Republicans obstructed far more than what was common, and so it was hard for him to do much work.
His policy in Syria/Libya was very bad IMO.
His policy in Syria/Libya was very bad IMO.
A big part of his legacy is Donald Trump and the world we have now.
Yeah but you're a neo-con
I saw very little wrong with Obama's philosophy regarding America's role in the world.
Giving weapons to ISIS wasn't particularly smart, to be fair.Yeah but you're a neo-con
I saw very little wrong with Obama's philosophy regarding America's role in the world.
Yeah but you're a neo-con
I saw very little wrong with Obama's philosophy regarding America's role in the world.
Obama wasn't exactly a pacifist either - as in, you're not likely to find many on the hard left who thought he was a good foreign policy president.
To an extent, but I don't think that's his fault alone. There was a genuine element of racism in Trump's campaign and a backlash against Obama being the first black President that benefited Trump greatly, and I'd say the reason Trump won was more due to the individual candidate he was up against since most others would've beaten him. By the same token Obama should've probably endorsed someone other than Hilary but I'm not completely sure that was in his control. Although yes, on the whole there's a lot more he could've done as President.
To be fair, you could probably make an argument that it was only in the latter years of his Presidency that Putin and Russia became such a big problem. While Russia was obviously a corrupt state US attempts to steer it in certain directions didn't really work in the 90s because a lot of its problems were systemic, and I imagine most people would have accepted the notion that they were best left alone so long as they played ball internationally. Obviously Crimea changed all of that though.
On the Middle Eastern front he largely inherited the mess left by Bush and was in a position where further intervention veered between being unpopular and non-viable.
In terms of improving lives of Americans (Forgin policy wise he is war criminal like every other president)he failed but looking back it's clear he was never going to succeed because he is and always was a standard conservative.
The fault was with us expecting something different sadly.
The fault was with us expecting something different sadly.
Then fair enough.
My history pre-FDR is weaker. But presidents I'd consider to be clearly better:
Washington
Jefferson
Lincoln
T. Roosevelt
F.D.R.
Truman
Eisenhower
The next tier where Obama falls IMO, would contain
Madison
Monroe
Polk
Coolidge
Johnson
Reagan
Clinton
There are 2 tiers below that. Trump so far is with Andrew Johnson and James Buchanan in the bottom tier. Nixon is in the 3rd tier, with Andrew Jackson. I'm not sure whether Kennedy falls in 2 or 3.
Is there space for a genuinely good president @Eboue?
A couple points in response:
1) Obama cleared the field for Hillary and bears responsibility for helping pick the only candidate who could have lost to Trump
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-barack-obama-repeatedly-discouraged-running/
2) I think it's wrong to see Trump's supporters as just a racist backlash. Some of them sure. But a lot of them are people who rightly recognized that the elites who run the country are full of shit and the economy is rigged. For a lot of people, the financial crisis was the trigger for that realization. The bankers destroyed the country and they got bailed out. Millions of Americans got foreclosed on and none of them got bailed out. And it happened under Obama. Many people realized that the rules and the norms they'd been told about their whole life didnt exist and the ones that did only applied to help rich people. The natural conclusion of that realization is voting for a candidate that doesnt care about norms or institutions. Additionally, so many peoples lives were worse in 2016 than they were in 2008. And what exactly did Obama do to help them?
Not at all.
I think he was looking for a middle ground between another invasion (which he rightly didn't go for), and completely ignoring the presence of a rogue state in that region.
No. I suspect that even if we got Bernie elected he would use drone strikes and look the other way when intelligence agencies torture.
I largely agree with a lot of what you've said in your second point. But I don't think it's absolute either way in regards to what won Trump the election: even plenty of those people who had were dissatisfied with the economy were simultaneously only interested in their own economic status at the expense of minorities and migrants, and many of them were strongly attracted to Trump's racially-fueled rhetoric. You often saw that in how certain people would say Trump was going to help real Americans, with real essentially being a synonym for white. More efforts to tackle inequality from Obama would've prevented a Trump win, but by the same token a campaign that didn't attempt to pander towards racial hatred might not have been as effective as Trump's.
Couldn't it be argued though that if someone like Bernie was similarly able to reduce inequality greatly and improve the lives of many working Americans that he would have been a good, albeit flawed President? There's surely a middle-ground there in that there have been many previous Presidents with dubious records on various matters who have nevertheless implemented key policies that have improved the lives of many Americans. Albeit they've sometimes only done it under immense pressure from said groups, but still...better that than nothing at all.
So what though? All Republicans are racist. If Obama didnt realize this then hes even more the fool. It's pointless to guess what might have happened if they didnt run a racist campaign. Conservatism is an inherently racist ideology. Fighting it requires recognizing and defeating that. Obama failed.
I'm not willing to judge the most powerful people in the world by the same standard as a neighbor with a drinking problem. They all signed up to do the job, knowing full well what it entails. You cant be a good person and drone strike apartment buildings. You just cant.
Trump's campaign was quite evidently more blatantly racist than various previous ones though which often utilised the Southern Strategy of tacitly endorsing possibilities which harmed minorities while similarly denouncing and distancing themselves from various racist groups that Trump has at times welcomed with open arms.
But what's your point? Anyone mildly observant knew this years ago. I dont think Obama playing Charlie Brown is a point in his favor.
I thought he was okay objectivity soeaking but he certainly was disappointing considering the hype surrounding him in his candidacy.
He was a disappointing president. So much opportunity for change wasted.
I hoped history would treat Obama kindly but I generally agree with what @Eboue says nowadays.
The taller than Mickey Rooney Award.
Since Carter, the US has not had a President with the best of intentions and not since LBJ has a President done more good than harm (and even then Vietnam is a noose around LBJ).
Mostly interested in his legacy in the Middle East. He inherited a disaster and failed to improve things, and contributed to making things worse. Campaigned on getting the US out of these wars and largely failed. Took a purely reactive approach to the Arab Spring, which in fairness nobody was prepared for - still it meant an entirely inconsistent approach, supporting Islamists in certain places at certain times, supporting the dictatorships in other places at other times. Helped exacerbate and prolong the carnage in Syria. Did nothing on the Israeli-Palestinian front, but that’s ok as the conflict is probably unsolvable. His outreach to Iran was generally misguided, although the nuclear deal was an achievement which may salvage a bit of his legacy here.
Despite all this, the US contribution to the current mess in the region is still largely the legacy of his predecessor.
Despite all this, the US contribution to the current mess in the region is still largely the legacy of his predecessor.
Reagan (I know, but from a conservative perspective he fits the criteria). Clinton too.
I was thinking from an objective historical perspective for working and middle class. No doubt ﹰReagan and ﹰClinton were good for the rich elites
Don't buy this "never been a good president" shite. As a progressive, you have to accept that things were massively different politically and socially back in time. Everything needs to be judged in context. That said, Obama was not a good one.
Let's discuss details then. Which presidents do you think were good
Is there space for a genuinely good leader of men? @adexkola
I think the moment you aspire to lead, the chance of you being ‘genuinely good’ is already minuscule. The best we can do is evaluate them on the harms and goods they’ve done, and even then those evaluations are on shaky grounds, due to changing norms and morality.
I think the moment you aspire to lead, the chance of you being ‘genuinely good’ is already minuscule. The best we can do is evaluate them on the harms and goods they’ve done, and even then those evaluations are on shaky grounds, due to changing norms and morality.
Oh, right, as you were then.
I was buzzing watching him win. Was a great moment at the time.
This topic has been discussed at length by Berniebro's. I don't think he was a good president, his foreign policy will be remembered as very poor, obviously.. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya & Syria and as Eboue said before me, a significant reason why we have Trump now is down to his government not registering the growing discontent of the public towards it's elected officials I mean.. his message was "Change" which in and of itself was an anti-establishment, populist slogan of sorts, right? It's probably a 2 hour discussion if you start listing what voters wanted and what little they actually got.