I am yet to understand this obsession with the idea that we specifically need a right winger. There simply are not right or left wingers anymore in the sense of specialists. Out of the wide forwards at other top European clubs: Willian, Pedro, Hazard, Sterling, Sané, Salah, Mané, Son, Eriksen, Alli, Coutinho, Dembele, Messi, Ronaldo, Bale, Asensio, Robben, Ribéry, Mandzukic, Costa, Neymar, Mbappé, only Robben and maybe Costa can be called pure right wingers in the sense that it has always been their starting position for an extended period of time. The rest have regularly played all across the front position and in some cases, midfield and false nines. So just why do we think that we need someone there? I am not disputing the need for quality, that's a different subject. What I am disputing is the idea that we need someone who is specifically a right winger.
Ogden: Mourinho eyes Man United clear-out
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Maybe not as the general trend is toward hybrid type players instead of the 90s winger who hugged the touchline, but there are wingers who can't play very well on the right and Sanchez, Martial, Rashford are three such players. Sanchez started out as a left winger iirc.
It doesn't have to be Beckham, but it should be a player capable of playing on the right side for the duration of a game. I think it's obvious that we do need a player like that. Mahrez fits the bill, I'd also argue that some of the players you list aren't in any sense pure right wingers. For example, Eriksen is not a pure right winger in any sense, and Mandzukic typically plays on the left or as CF for Juventus.
Ducker has stated that the club are not interested in selling Pogba or Martial contrary to Ogden's report (there's some differing opinions over who is more reliable), which is a relief because it makes me mildly ill, the thought of Martial going off to a club like Bayern and flourishing as Robben's replacement.
Looking forward to this clear out. I've never rated Mata. He's a neat and tidy professional but that's it. Smalling and Jones are clumsy and have no class. Herrera is bang average. Fellaini is an absolute joke. Shaw is really dumb, like 'Lennie' dumb (Of Mice and Men). Blind is a carthorse and Darmian is simply a non entity. Away with the lot of ye'!
I doubt Mata is going anywhere. He's well represented in Mourinho's lineups and doesn't look like he's in the same category as the likes of Darmian, Blind et al.
I honestly don't know what this forum has with wishing Martial away. He's a Jose success story but because its been argued for so long there's still that doubt there despite all of the evidence to the contrary.
Isn't Jose upset that Martials contract talks have stalled as well?
Martial's agent has also said that though he is not sure his client is going to stay at United beyond the summer, there is no contact with Juve or any other club.
No need to panic. That's agent speak for, "He's happy to stay if you bump up his pay-packet".
No need to panic. That's agent speak for, "He's happy to stay if you bump up his pay-packet".
Errrr.... while I definitely don't want him to leave, I'm not sure he deserves a bumper pay rise either.
The only player who can rightfully hold the club to ransom is De God himself.
For me it could be answered simply by looking at our positional maps- we have literally nobody out there consistently. That really is not an exaggeration. Maybe we could play rashford there consistently as i think he has what it takes to succeed there. Mata barely has his starting position there and is literally playing as a 10 or LW most of the time it seems. We need that width, even if it is just someone starting wide and receiving the ball wide before cutting in. Right now teams only have to defend half the field against us with how we are set up.
If that's true then our attack might be looking a little something like this next season;
LW: Sanchez/Martial
ST: Lukaku/Rashford
RW: New RW/Chong
Two players for each position with Mata possibly leaving.
Let him off. Lazy Bollox doesn't deserve a pay rise.
If we get those 2.
Just imagine the squad we could potentially have next season? I'm still in the neutral camp as far as Mourinho is concerned but next season will be make or break I think...unless the quality of football dramatically improves and we just miss out on the top honours.
I'm still in the neutral camp as far as Mourinho is concerned but next season will be make or break I think...unless the quality of football dramatically improves and we just miss out on the top honours.That better not be a correct list of targets.
2 x injury-prone defenders, one of whom is no youngster.
2 x older wingers that would cost a fortune but probably only have a couple of years left at their peak.
Don't know much about Fred, so can't comment on him.
As for the clearout, we hear this every season as we approach summer. We always end up with the same old faces knocking around. I'm sure Jose will be not so subtly moaning about these same players again, by this time next season.
Shaw, Blind, Zlatan, Carrick and Darmian. I do believe all of these will be gone.
Fellaini should join them, but I have a feeling he's gonna lower his demands a little and find a middle ground, getting a new contract.
2 x injury-prone defenders, one of whom is no youngster.
2 x older wingers that would cost a fortune but probably only have a couple of years left at their peak.
Don't know much about Fred, so can't comment on him.
As for the clearout, we hear this every season as we approach summer. We always end up with the same old faces knocking around. I'm sure Jose will be not so subtly moaning about these same players again, by this time next season.
Shaw, Blind, Zlatan, Carrick and Darmian. I do believe all of these will be gone.
Fellaini should join them, but I have a feeling he's gonna lower his demands a little and find a middle ground, getting a new contract.
I do think there is still a section of United fans that want chalk on the boots wingers, which as you point out is not something you see a lot of in today's game, but for most of us it's simply a case of feeling we need a player who can operate on that side of the pitch who actually looks like he's at his best there and will keep a presence there to a large degree.
The problem right now that all the players we can put on the wing are right footed. And Sanchez, Martial and Rashford are all at their best on the left because they can cut inside on their right foot.
This is a major reason why Valencia's unwillingness to make himself available and push forward into the space that's constantly available to him is so incredibly frustrating. It's like a monumental task for him to make basic overlapping runs and even when he does it's belated so it slows down whatever momentum we may have had and his delivery is shocking.
I feel it's likely the result of overuse, but there's no way we can go into next season without strengthening at RB.
Ten player revolving door? Yeah right. Is this a public message to the owners that to seriously revive the club it'll take that amount of players?
"How to get the sack" By Jose
1. Secure a contract extension, ensuring a lucrative payout.
2. Lose the dressing room so the match performance levels drop.
3. Play dire football so you alienate the fans.
4. State publicly that to make a winning side so need to buy a new team, thus annoying the owners.
5. Jose and the club part ways.
"How to get the sack" By Jose
1. Secure a contract extension, ensuring a lucrative payout.
2. Lose the dressing room so the match performance levels drop.
3. Play dire football so you alienate the fans.
4. State publicly that to make a winning side so need to buy a new team, thus annoying the owners.
5. Jose and the club part ways.
Again with fecking Perisic
Give Mourinho as much money as you can possibly give him in the Summer under the conditions he has no excuses not to win either the PL or CL next season.
No blaming a lack of investment, players not being good enough, past managers, city, Wenger... Just get it done.
A team with De Gea, Matic, Pogba, Rashford, Sanchez & Lukaku and whoever the feck Mourinho wants this Summer should be winning things.
No blaming a lack of investment, players not being good enough, past managers, city, Wenger... Just get it done.
A team with De Gea, Matic, Pogba, Rashford, Sanchez & Lukaku and whoever the feck Mourinho wants this Summer should be winning things.
Relaxed about who goes to be honest.
Mourinho is a ruthless beast, and he'll know what it takes to get us as competitive as he'd like.
We're getting there, despite this little lull from some of our star guys.
Mourinho is a ruthless beast, and he'll know what it takes to get us as competitive as he'd like.
We're getting there, despite this little lull from some of our star guys.
We haven't quite hit the peak of the performance mountain yet, hopefully that comes next year with glory first!
Think there will be a few outs, as long as what comes in is better. ? Is Jose going to be here, I think he will because I think it' his last job in a big club.
I think he will get a center back , and another Center midfielder, also he want a left back, he doesn't like Shaw at all. Mata may go hope not, like him, I think he may buy another striker or another wide man and concentrate on Rashford as a striker.
I think he will get a center back , and another Center midfielder, also he want a left back, he doesn't like Shaw at all. Mata may go hope not, like him, I think he may buy another striker or another wide man and concentrate on Rashford as a striker.
Martial isn't giving the instant success that some expect out of him, particularly in a time like this when we're not as high-flying and it's easy to point to the flagship players that are "supposed" to win us games and heap all the blame on them (which is the current situation with Pogba) despite any good performances they might've put in.
I read that Jose wants the contract situation sorted ASAP not too long ago too before the rumors about him getting rid of Martial and Pogba and the like started. Hopefully Jose has a longer memory than some and better foresight these days so Martial doesn't become our KDB or even our second Pogba -- someone we ship off when they're not at their best only to have them blossom elsewhere. We need to start thinking for the long-term.
And whose job is that to improve young players' raw skill?
Agree 100%.
Honestly think Mata would be fine if he had a full back willing to run past him. He tucks in and draws players with him. Just with Valencia now creaking a bit with age, our right hand side threat is negligible.
Carrick
Ibrahimovic
Darmian
Blind
Shaw
Herrera
Mata
Milinković-Savić
Ryan Sessegnon
Fabinho
Icardi
6 out, 4 in
Ibrahimovic
Darmian
Blind
Shaw
Herrera
Mata
Milinković-Savić
Ryan Sessegnon
Fabinho
Icardi
6 out, 4 in
The Brighton game sucks, but I really think that in games when we have alot of possession we always look much more coherent and threatening in attack with Mata in the side. Long term I do think we need to improve on him, but going into next year I tend to agree that getting in a more dynamic RB would do wonders for him and us as a team.
It's too bad Mourinho apparently hates Shaw since at this point I'd at least want to see what Young could do at RB.
The players. We've seen far too many "talented" players fade to oblivion. Players are responsible for their own development, Managers are responsible for making a team as functional as possible. Coaches are also responsible partly, but not the manager. The only thing a manager does with a young player is give them an opportunity to play, not develop them. Has Martial been granted this opportunity? Yes. Has Rashford been given this opportunity? yes. People really exaggerate player development on the side of the managers.
There are only so many players can get rid of in one summer, and Mourinho’s version of deadwood might not be the same as the fans.
I can see shaw, Herrera and Martial all going as well as Carrick, darmian and Zlatan but no more than that. Fellaini will stay once he realises what his other options are.
I can see shaw, Herrera and Martial all going as well as Carrick, darmian and Zlatan but no more than that. Fellaini will stay once he realises what his other options are.
It's the managers and coaches job to train them and guide them, but ultimately it's the responsibility of the player to improve.
Don't think people want a right-winger who is of the Valencia-type, but more someone who doesn't close to exclusively go inward. Unneeded if the fullback is able to provide width & crosses, but seeing as our fullbacks haven't had that ability bar Young it's a either or at the very least.
As for your list, it shouldn't be held to only right-wing. It's a thing more of having the option of stretching play, so some teams that don't have the fullbacks to do that job will have wingers capable of doing it, Sane at City is an example of a left-winger who can actually play as a winger. Then there are players who can (and will) go either way, like Willian & Hazard.
To reiterate, i don't think having a winger that goes for the line is a must, but we need to stretch play either by having a winger, wing-back or midfielder who goes out to stretch play. Pogba does it somewhat on the left (and we have quality overall on that side), but we are lacking on the right-side which makes us camp the middle outside their 16 or up on our left-side, making it easier to know where we'll attack and therefor easier to defend against.
Fellaini, Zlatan, Carick, Shaw, Darmin, Blind, Herrera & Lindelof out
Could probabky get around a 100m for all of those combined, maybe less if some are on the last year of their contract.
Young, Valencia, Smalling, Jones, Mctominay, Mata & Rashford should all come from the bench.
Need a new RB, LB, RW, CB and CM.
................ De Gea .............
New RB Bailly New CB New LB
.................. Matic .............
.......... New CM Pogba .....
.........Sanchez Martial......
................ Lukaku ...........
Rashford to be a second striker. Coming from the bench, or we could play with 2 strikers every once in a while and put Martial on the bench. Rashford is still young and cant see a place for him yet on the team. If Sanchez doesnt deliver or once Sanchez leaves will be his time to shine.
Could probabky get around a 100m for all of those combined, maybe less if some are on the last year of their contract.
Young, Valencia, Smalling, Jones, Mctominay, Mata & Rashford should all come from the bench.
Need a new RB, LB, RW, CB and CM.
................ De Gea .............
New RB Bailly New CB New LB
.................. Matic .............
.......... New CM Pogba .....
.........Sanchez Martial......
................ Lukaku ...........
Rashford to be a second striker. Coming from the bench, or we could play with 2 strikers every once in a while and put Martial on the bench. Rashford is still young and cant see a place for him yet on the team. If Sanchez doesnt deliver or once Sanchez leaves will be his time to shine.
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You're in saying that we gonna need an extra player on the pitch at all times to have a chance.
Doubt we go for Perisic. He didn't come last year and signed a new contract.
Wouldn't read too much into that list. That's Ogden pulling out targets from twitter sources. He has all the usual suspects in there.
Nice list, but we won't be after a striker certainly this summer. Lukaku will be leading the line next season and backup options are also good.
Think Rojo could go too and I wouldn’t discount a huge name going - De Gea or Pogba most likely. I also think if the right player at the right age becomes available we could see Matic being shoved down the pecking order.
Jose can’t afford to be nice to anyone if we are to get anywhere near City next season. The most brutal cull the club has seen since the early days under Fergie because the PL bar has been raised to an unprecedented level.
Jose can’t afford to be nice to anyone if we are to get anywhere near City next season. The most brutal cull the club has seen since the early days under Fergie because the PL bar has been raised to an unprecedented level.
So you are saying sell this team and buy a brand new one?
Rojo just signed a new deal. Slim chances of him leaving.
DDG: Only if the fees are neymaresque I reckon. Doubt if Madrid will splash all the cash on him
Pogba: Dont think he will leave, too much of a brand for him to go so soon
Matic: no chance, he has been the best player this season and Jose trusts him. Even if a big name player is available, matic will still play games.
DDG will probably go, and I wouldnt blame him. He's the only world class player we have, and his teammates refuse to perform at his level. He can see how Real challenge for the CL every season, and he knows he's missing out.
There's no way the club would allow Pogba to leave, again. Jose will be gone before Pogba. We can't sell our best and most high profile players if we are to catch City, and with transfer fees rising, replacing him will cost more than we get for him.
Fellaini, Smalling, Darmian, Shaw, Blind, Mata all need to go. Young and Valencia need to be relegated to bench (or just squad) status.
New LB - Alex Sandro, or Rose, and a young talent like Tierney or Sessegnon
New RB - Sidibe or Meunier
New CB (to partner Bailly) - Alderweireld (if we can nab him before he signs a new deal), or Koulibaly
Two new CMs - Need a b2b and a CDM to partner/rotate with Matic. I'd go Fabinho and Fred (though we could even do with Jorginho, or similar player who can dictate the tempo).
New RW - Mahrez (this one is frustratingly obvious, and I feel would have been a better signing than Sanchez).
That's quite an outlay, but I agree with the poster above - give Jose a massive budget, but set the expectation that he has to win the league, a domestic trophy and latter stages of the CL (i.e. replicate City this season). He can have no excuse then.