How are Maguire and AWB dross?
Typical knee jerking after a loss.
Typical knee jerking after a loss.
Ole and his dross signings
- Thread starter Rajma
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Hahaha very well put
Agreed
He’s not referring to Leicester match, hence before today
Shame none of them start a thread about themselves being knee jerking cnuts
Well the transfer fee is a huge part of rating if the signing is successful or not. Lets say we had bought Maguire for 10M no one would argue him being a total hit, or lets say we would had paid 60M for Telles nobody would call him a success.
Transfer fees bring expectation with it and signings should be rated accordingly.
What did you expect from James? A 15m punt from the championship & he's not even been as bad as most people make it out.
Maguire and AWB made our defences 10x better than before.
Too soon to judge VDB.
Typical angry post after we lose a game. Congrats
Maguire and AWB made our defences 10x better than before.
Too soon to judge VDB.
Typical angry post after we lose a game. Congrats
because i wanted to see young and valencia at right back and jones as first choice. AWB and Maguire haven't improved us whatsoever, we should have kept the money, waited for the new rio ferdinand to appear in the russian 4th division, then scouted him (but we have no scouting) signed him for 30k and won the league this year. Its all oles fault, get him out.
Dross or not they've played to a standard that puts them at less than half the value we signed them for, even allowing for the inflated market at the time.
Di Maria and Lukaku were awful signings but they held a transfer value far better than AWB and Maguire will.
Paul Tomkins and Graeme Riley did a big study on transfers, documented in their book Pay As You Play. They found that only 50% of transfers are a success. This is as true for big money signings, as it is for lower priced transfers. So don't be surprised when Solskjaer, Mourinho, LVG, or Sir Alex Ferguson, ends up signing a lot of players that are either clear failures or don't make much difference to the success of the team.
Indeed, the difference between Ferguson and the more recent managers is not the failures but that he had a long list of huge successes. To his credit, Solskjaer bought Bruno Fernandes, the outstanding purchase of the post-Ferguson era.
If you think Solskjaer is poor at transfers, take a look at the 15 highest priced transfers across the big 5 European Leagues this season: Havertz, Werner, Dias, Arthur, Pjanic, Sane, Hakimi, Partey, Icardi, Osimhen, Fabio Silva, Chilwell, Jota, Ziyech, Ake. Plenty of disappointing first seasons amongst that group, as well as a few successes.
Real Madrid spent in excess of £100m on Eden Hazard, £27m on Odriozola, £45m on Eder Militao has who barely started a game for them so far, Luca Jovic £50m+ already sent out on loan. Barcelona bought Coutinho, Griezmann and Dembele all above £100m. Chelsea spent £72m on Kepa Arrizabalaga, Arsenal decided Pepe was worth a similar fee.
In 5 years' time we will have a better idea of whether Solskjaer signings to date have been a success. The longer time frame allows for players to overcome a difficult start or justify a high fee, and gives them more opportunities to win trophies. In some instances players depart much earlier, in which case a fair assessment can be done at that stage.
Indeed, the difference between Ferguson and the more recent managers is not the failures but that he had a long list of huge successes. To his credit, Solskjaer bought Bruno Fernandes, the outstanding purchase of the post-Ferguson era.
If you think Solskjaer is poor at transfers, take a look at the 15 highest priced transfers across the big 5 European Leagues this season: Havertz, Werner, Dias, Arthur, Pjanic, Sane, Hakimi, Partey, Icardi, Osimhen, Fabio Silva, Chilwell, Jota, Ziyech, Ake. Plenty of disappointing first seasons amongst that group, as well as a few successes.
Real Madrid spent in excess of £100m on Eden Hazard, £27m on Odriozola, £45m on Eder Militao has who barely started a game for them so far, Luca Jovic £50m+ already sent out on loan. Barcelona bought Coutinho, Griezmann and Dembele all above £100m. Chelsea spent £72m on Kepa Arrizabalaga, Arsenal decided Pepe was worth a similar fee.
In 5 years' time we will have a better idea of whether Solskjaer signings to date have been a success. The longer time frame allows for players to overcome a difficult start or justify a high fee, and gives them more opportunities to win trophies. In some instances players depart much earlier, in which case a fair assessment can be done at that stage.
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Great post! Kind of content that makes me come back to Redcafe!
Calling Maguire and AWB dross is knee-jerking basically even if Maguire could ideally have been cheaper. James has been increasingly showing his utility, while VDB is in his first season. Till now Solskjaer has had more hits than failures on the transfer business compared to LVG and Mourinho (not the best comparisons I know).
10x better than before
I swear there's a thread on wanting us to hijack jonny fecking evans to partner maguire. And smailing wasnt doing so bad in italy.
10x better than before.
I want what you're smoking
Transfers are one of Ole's strengths and the only one that seems to have completely fallen flat on arrival is VDB. James was a reasonable punt who's been a useful if limited squad player. Maguire and AWB were good signings (even if Maguire was way overpriced) who have contributed leaps and bounds to United's defensive reliability, even if they each have flaws to work on. An FA Cup loss does nothing to change this.
Then we've got Telles, Cavani, Diallo, Pellestri, Bruno. Ole has plenty of flaws worthy of criticism, but if we're looking at number of hits vs misses in the transfer market Solksjaer's done an amazing job.
Then we've got Telles, Cavani, Diallo, Pellestri, Bruno. Ole has plenty of flaws worthy of criticism, but if we're looking at number of hits vs misses in the transfer market Solksjaer's done an amazing job.
Wow Telles and Cavani incredible signings
Neither are "dross," which is the title of the thread. Telles is precisely the mould of signing top clubs need to make to ensure a well-stocked squad and he appears to have played a part in getting Shaw to play the best football of his life.
Transfers during Fergie’s last years were largely abysmal as well. The only hits were Hernandez, De Gea and RvP. At least the dross then didn’t cost 50m+
I agree Telles and Cavani haven’t been hits overall.
I do actually like Maguire a lot more than either but that’s just me. He plays every game for one. The price tag was the problem.
Bruno is his only really good signing overall and possibly Diallo who knows.
Cavani as much as I like him cannot be relied upon now as a main striker and we need him to be that week in week out. Can’t stay fit long enough sadly.
But also how are they performing
You’ve obviously went to an extreme end there
The cry babies on here are getting so tiresome! Our defence has been very impressive - by and large- all season. Maguire and AWB are a massive improvement on Smalliing and Ashley Young and to not acknowledge that is disingenuous! Are they perfect? No! But definitely steps in the right direction.
James has been crucial to our tactics against the top teams, Cavani has done ok for a free transfer and let’s judge VDB and Telles after their settling in year
James has been crucial to our tactics against the top teams, Cavani has done ok for a free transfer and let’s judge VDB and Telles after their settling in year
Maguire 5/10 - He's certainly not an 80m signing, a fee, everyone knew we would have to pay if we went for him. Maguire's problem is that he lacks pace, positioning and leadership to play in a team with a high line defence. That means that we're saddled with a very expensive CB whose not suited to our game.
AWB 6/10 - defensively he's sound but attacking wise he needs improving. I rate him higher to Maguire because there's potential in the guy to become the player we need
James 5/10 - He's got pace but little else. We've got already enough speed merchants. Hopefully we can recoup the money that we spent on him
Bruno - 10/10 - a top top signing. He carries us most of the time.
VDB - 3/10 - We barely ever play him. What the point of signing the guy?
Diallo - its too early to say
Telles - 4/10. Everyone who followed the guy knew that Telles was never defensive sound. Attacking wise he's decent but defensive wise he'll need to be carried.
Ighalo 4/10 - He was never United level and we extended his contract out of Lulz
Cavani - 6/10 - He's old but he does what says on the tin ie he score goals.
I see a consistent problem with United since Sir Alex left ie managers are allowed to bring players in that they want with little to no regard on whether they fit our game or are flexible enough to suit a different style of game then that of the manager. That means that if the manager leaves then most of the players won't survive the onslaught.
AWB 6/10 - defensively he's sound but attacking wise he needs improving. I rate him higher to Maguire because there's potential in the guy to become the player we need
James 5/10 - He's got pace but little else. We've got already enough speed merchants. Hopefully we can recoup the money that we spent on him
Bruno - 10/10 - a top top signing. He carries us most of the time.
VDB - 3/10 - We barely ever play him. What the point of signing the guy?
Diallo - its too early to say
Telles - 4/10. Everyone who followed the guy knew that Telles was never defensive sound. Attacking wise he's decent but defensive wise he'll need to be carried.
Ighalo 4/10 - He was never United level and we extended his contract out of Lulz
Cavani - 6/10 - He's old but he does what says on the tin ie he score goals.
I see a consistent problem with United since Sir Alex left ie managers are allowed to bring players in that they want with little to no regard on whether they fit our game or are flexible enough to suit a different style of game then that of the manager. That means that if the manager leaves then most of the players won't survive the onslaught.
Van De Beek apart, I won't say any signing has been a bad one.
Cavani was for free, Telles and James were <20m signings - expected squad players and that's what they've been.
Maguire, Bruno, AWB have been great players for us
Cavani was for free, Telles and James were <20m signings - expected squad players and that's what they've been.
Maguire, Bruno, AWB have been great players for us
The transfer market has been massively overinflated, but I'd agree that his signings bar Bruno havn't been a massive hit. It doesn't mean they are all useless though.
How is the spending masking his coaching ability if the players he signs are dross?
I wouldn't say they were useless. However fees do matter. For example spending 80m on a CB whose clearly not good enough to ever become WC and who would always struggle in playing in a defence with a high line is bad business.
I agree, Maguire's worth is closer to half of what we paid for him.
Oles fecked us up for a very long time with his first transfer window. Our fanbase just can't get over something as simple as - he's better than X so he's a good signing irrespsive of how much we spend on him.
We've gambles our teams forseeable future away on AWB and Maguire. The amount of money we spent on them was obscene for the quality of player we got. Despite the amount of money we spunked in the defensive half of the pitch, we still need to spend a feck load more on another CB to hide Maguire's glaring weaknesses. And that might still not be enough. The club got hoodwinked by Ole into thinking they were signing a VVD but they were instead getting the Joe Gomez/Matip half of the partnership (for a WR fee).
When we finally do spunk the £100m on this much coveted RW, we'll realise how much AWB hampers the players in front of him so we'll be back in the market for a RB - except for we'll need to replace Pogba, sign a striker, DM and a CB around the same time.
We've gambles our teams forseeable future away on AWB and Maguire. The amount of money we spent on them was obscene for the quality of player we got. Despite the amount of money we spunked in the defensive half of the pitch, we still need to spend a feck load more on another CB to hide Maguire's glaring weaknesses. And that might still not be enough. The club got hoodwinked by Ole into thinking they were signing a VVD but they were instead getting the Joe Gomez/Matip half of the partnership (for a WR fee).
When we finally do spunk the £100m on this much coveted RW, we'll realise how much AWB hampers the players in front of him so we'll be back in the market for a RB - except for we'll need to replace Pogba, sign a striker, DM and a CB around the same time.
Struck gold with Bruno but the rest of his signings have done nothing to prove they belong here.
Are they? In 2015-2016 we leaked 35 goals. In 2016-2017 we leaked 29 goals. While in 2017-2018 we leaked 28 goals. Since Maguire and AWB were signed we had leaked 36 goals in 2019-2020 and we already leaked 32 goals this season. That's a significant improvement to the horrific 2018-2019 season when Mou lost the dressing room. However if you ignore that freak season then we are worse off rather then better off. Meanwhile Leicester's defence had conceded less goals without Maguire then with Maguire
Someone said the players sold arnt that much better than the players we have brought in. For example if we never signed Harry and kept Smalling would we really be that worse off? Everyone hated Lukaku but we dont have a striker near him. Herrara we should have kept. Maybe even Fellaini would be a better option that McFred! Friggin Fellaini! Its not quite true Id keep the players we have now. But for the money how much of an upgrade is it?
People forget that we have to play two holding midfielders in front of our back two so they are not over exposed. This is then causing us issues higher up the pitch with a lack of creativity. I'm sorry imagine having to play Butt and Keane right in front of Ferdinand and Vidic because they are vulnerable.
Anyway back on topic;
Last summer transfer window absolutely killed us. We needed to progress, everyone knew the priority was RW, ST, CB and CDM.
Cavani - Good player - but injury prone
Diallo - Lot of money spent on a kid who is still not ready according to Ole
VDB - The most bizarre signing. Never really had a run of games, seems to have fallen out of favour completely.
Pellestri - Already on loan - doesnt look anything special
Telles - He has provided at least an opportunity to rest Shaw, but again nothing special
Its interesting that maguire gets a lot of hate when he has been one of our best players recently, he was excellent against milan and in all honesty he wasnt that bad yesterday either horribly let down by the car crash happening infront of him.
He is actually very capable of playing in a high line as long as he has a keeper behind him willing to actually leave his line which he now does in Henderson.
Noone in there right mind would say he was a 80million pound player, but who really cares about transfer fees?
He is in the top 5 CBs in the PL if not the top 3 a vast improvement on what we had before and is our best CB by some distance.
He is actually very capable of playing in a high line as long as he has a keeper behind him willing to actually leave his line which he now does in Henderson.
Noone in there right mind would say he was a 80million pound player, but who really cares about transfer fees?
He is in the top 5 CBs in the PL if not the top 3 a vast improvement on what we had before and is our best CB by some distance.
You could make an argument that he wouldn’t even be in top three centre backs in Leicester squad. We massively overpaid for Maguire but he’s ok, biggest improvement he has made is he stays fit which was a huge problem for our centre halves previously.
It's been miss and hit like always under Ed. Mostly miss sadly. Not sure Ole can do much about that.
Good against Milan second leg. Not so good in the first
Nonsense, Ole has bought much better than recent managers. Far from dross. Bruno, AWB, Maguire, Cavani, Telles, James all good signings. Maguire was way overpriced but nothing majorly wrong with the player himself.
They are not all good signings, and there are things wrong with Maguire other than price (which is why we need another CB)
Telles ha been poor in my opinion. VDB doesnt seem to fit in (and the questions were raised about where he fits before we signed him).
AWB not good enough on the ball (again was raised before we signed him)
Cavani (fitness issues)
James (not good enough)
You can make an argument for 2 out of 6 being good signings and one is questionable
maguire was a mess, if you ask me. he was excellent in Milan but all over the shop at Leicester: backing off, missing tackles and is possibly the weakest CB I've seen in decades when it comes to headers in the opponent's penalty area
Agree here
AWB is very good at tackling but his often poor positional play means those last-ditch tackles are required. and, as you say, going forward - well, he's little more than a joke. He may well improve but this guy is no Gary Neville or Dennis Irwin
Wan-Bissaka is a very good player and one of the best 1on1 CBs I've seen at the club, a big reason why we're 2nd in the league and improving. We haven't conceded in two games against City in the league this season partly because they couldn't get past him. Has had a number of other top wingers in his pocket as well. He's only 23 and he's getting better going forward this season and has definitely contributed more. It's a good signing.
Telles hasn't got enough chances and considering his price he's still very good back-up to a resurgent Shaw. Our left-back position was once a mess, now it's one of the strongest parts of the team.
Cavani was a free transfer and has justified his wages with his contributions.
Dan James was a cheap player who has mostly been a squad player and has only played recently because of injuries. Another young player who is getting better.
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We have addressed plenty of issues in the team, but still have a problem at the base of midfield where we're relying on a player I have some time for but nonetheless a flop (Fred), an okay academy product (McTominay). And we've seen a massive decline this season from one of our best players the previous season (Martial). That coupled with a few injuries has stalled our progress slightly, but 2nd in the league on course to get 75 points is going in the right direction as a team.
Yeah people are seriously stupid. The funny thing is that you or I could've done a similar job which says a lot. Try to remember that 20-30 people work FULL TIME doing this, and the best they come up with is Maguire for £80m and AWB for £50m. The sad thing is that they don't fit into how Man United should play. It's not like we don't see that AWB is better than a 35-year-old midfielder Ashley Young, is that he is not good enough on the ball. Man United can't have a water carrier for £50m. It's insane. That's the most worrying thing IMO, we don't buy players to fit into a system, we just go "yeah player A is better than player B" and I have said it many times, with that logic people would be happy with Coleman for £50m, because he is better than Young. The same goes for Fred, which became clearly evident yesterday. We can't buy footballers who are not good enough with the ball, we can't have a CM who is so poor with the ball. If you think about our way forward, to win the PL, to win the CL. Will AWB, Maguire, James, Telles, Fred be a big part of that? No way.