Haha. Oh yeah, because that guy loves to fly.
OranjeCafe: The Netherlands at the World Cup
- Thread starter KiD MoYeS
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Pretty good run they have to the semi's. Mexico and then either Costa Rica/Greece. I'd like to see a Netherlands vs Argentina semi final, that would be great viewing, just attacking cos neither looks the strongest at the back.
Fact is they haven't got enough supreme players to play total football. LVG has done a great job for this "rather limited" team.
In terms of passes per game, Holland were 10th out of the 32 (England were ahead of them).
Thanks. Pretty much proves my point and that Dutch guy was saying Holland were dominant in the tournament lol. They even sat back and defended deep against the group stage opponents like Denmark and Japan.
It's the human nature, people are never pleased, they always want more.
I thought the did great in the group stage. Especially against Chile, that performance was basically perfect, they might have not have the ball much, but they were always in charge of the game.
Let's be honest, except RVP and Robben, the other players are average, LVG is definitely squeezing the max out of them.
I thought the did great in the group stage. Especially against Chile, that performance was basically perfect, they might have not have the ball much, but they were always in charge of the game.
Let's be honest, except RVP and Robben, the other players are average, LVG is definitely squeezing the max out of them.
I consider myself up to speed on the WC and I don't feel like we're giving LVG a hard time at all here in The Netherlands. He gets a lot of praise for getting the max out of - what is essentially - an Eredivisie team.
I also feel like I'm watching another version of the WC than others. LVG is playing Total Football. He has been doing so for over 5 years now. It's called Total Football 2.0.
There is much more going on than just defending and counters. I find his organic tactics most refreshing.
I also feel like I'm watching another version of the WC than others. LVG is playing Total Football. He has been doing so for over 5 years now. It's called Total Football 2.0.
Built on the foundation of Total Football, AZ's game is to sit back and wait for their opponents to overstretch themselves and then break out. Their skilled, lightning-quick strikers are sufficiently superior to their guards to capitalise on only a handful of chances.
That is from 2009, but it's exactly what he did against Spain and Chile.
There is much more going on than just defending and counters. I find his organic tactics most refreshing.
That's just not true, Netherlands dominated some games in the group stage especially. It's bullshit to compare passes per game with England or other countries that got kicked out early. No shit you're going to get more passes and possession in the group stages than later in the finals. When Netherlands played Denmark they had 499 passes compared to Denmark's 256.
Now you won't see me saying we dominated that tournament however, but we didn't sit back against smaller teams.
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Italy and Spain are right at the top of the tables for possession (61.4% and 57.6%), pass success rate (85% and 82%) and total passes (2071 and 1859) yet they will watch the last 16 from home, while Algeria completed only 68% of their passes and attempted more than 800 fewer than Spain and 600 fewer than the Azzurri but still have a last-16 tie with Germany to look forward to. And perhaps most telling of all, Holland stormed through their “group of death” despite having a total of only 39.5% of the possession – only bettered (if that is the correct word) by Iran’s measly 29.7%.
passes ≠ greatness
I agree that there's actually not that much criticism at all. Sure, some would like to see better football, even Van Gaal says our play needs to improve, but I've heard few people saying we need to change our style of play.
However, I can't say that this is total football. And I can't say that this is the kind of football that Van Gaal used to advocate. He himself has said that he finds good attractive attacking football more important than winning, and that he will always follow that idea. He doesn't follow that with the current Dutch team. Now I'm okay with that personally, but I'm surprised he is too.
It's mainly journalists who are disappointed with Van Gaal not failing. Getting back at him for 25 years not sucking up to them and for not letting them have a say about which players should play, like his predecessors did.
Now they write Van Gaal has ended "the Dutch School"/ total football after a very impressive qualifying with attacking 4-4-3 in its best form, relative to the poor generation of players. But the only times the Netherlands have played the Dutch school in a WC or EC since the seventies was in 2000.
No one did. But Australia and Chili were a bit disappointing in the aspect of posession and fluency. I agree, I'm disappointed too. It's a shame now whe finally have the right manager, we aren't able to play the Dutch School. It's not just the right manager, he's the master of the Dutch School, the one who took it to another level and keeps finetuning en innovating on it. I understand the necessity to play a different way, but it's still disappointing. What could have been...
So besides the unfair and selective criticism out of wrong and very ignoble motives, it is a serious issue here. Because it's about football culture. That's not just about the national football team, the national football team is an expression of our football culture: We pass and move, we keep posession, and tricks and individual skill are just as much part of teamplay as hard work is. From young to old and from the lowest to the highest level, we organize players. It's not just football culture, it's general culture. We organize any sports, big or small, and even all other recreational activities. The Dutch football association is one of the largest in the world, wiht more than a million members on a 17 million population. For every 7 year old kid who wants to play football there's a competition, pitches, training, coaching, dressing rooms, a chairman etc, all organized.
If you organize all that, you might as well organize the players when on the pitch too, and that's what we do. Young kids, thirtysomethings playing summernights in the park. I play in a park myself with anyone who shows up, we'll do without a referee, lines, decent goals, skill, fitness and sometimes even sobriety, but not without team organization. Often foreigners show up, Germans, French, Italians, and they will be tought tactics they failed to learn as a kid. Generally they don't know were to walk, to whom to pass in which situation, and how to show their skill in a manner that serves the team of that night. Never a problem, but it's obvious they're from a different football culture.
Playing organized is at the heart of our football culture, and that generally means posession, initiative and attack, because that's where most progress is made by organization of play. We have known for a long time how to organize individual skill in a way it serves the team, where other countries often find that individual brilliance and team play tend to go at eachothers expense. So we know best, the English might think they invented football, we found out how to play it. It's like you invented the toilet, and we invented the hole in it. And we'll teach everybody how it's done, for free, because we know better and we want recognition for that. Spain learned a lot from us the last few years, but not everything. The Germans are trying to, but it's not really in their hearts, it doesn't come from deep down because it's not their football culture. We're still the ones who know best how to get special talent working together, and we want to show it. Even our national pride is more about teaching everybody a lesson, preferably a hard one, than about winning.
So a lot of Dutch are disappointed we're not showing off our superior take on the game by keeping posession and moving the ball around fluently on their half with the opponent having to watch helplessly how the game is played properly. Like Brazilians would be disappointed if their national team would not show any trickery or Argentines or Uruguayans would be disappointed if they would go out without a 'bit' of cheating, because that's part of their football culture.
Also a lot of Dutch over the years got fed up with beeing the pretty loser again and again, but these players should not be able to win it because of the lack of quality. Then 'we' prefer to loose in style. Me personally, I think it's not completely impossible to win it, and I expect more spells of fluent pass and move and posession. Not only because Van Gaal is working on that, but because it's in our football culture.
Said it after the group stage, and will say it again, that is really one average team.
Apart from RvP and Robben, I can't see any players that would go anywhere near top teams, so I would be mad if we are looking to bring any player from this team. What surprises me the most is lack of technical abilities in that team, half of the team is struggling with even controlling the ball.
Apart from RvP and Robben, I can't see any players that would go anywhere near top teams, so I would be mad if we are looking to bring any player from this team. What surprises me the most is lack of technical abilities in that team, half of the team is struggling with even controlling the ball.
It really is. The wankfest is getting to me.
Robben was the player of the group stages, he most certainly wasn't great today, and he's just cheated to take his team through to the quarter finals. Hopefully they get knocked out in the next round, proper scumbag thing to do, feel for Mexico, though Marquez should have known better seeing as who was running in the area. Absoloute tart.
Clear penalty in my opinion. Marquez lunged in, and the contact was there for everyone to see.
Yeah, same here.
Have another look. Marquez plants his foot, Robben makes sure he makes contact, arches his back, left leg goes springing back. It's not a penalty as he wasn't impeded, he choses to go over Marquez's foot.
That's a penalty and has been for as long as I've been watching football.
The problem is that what you describe there is a penalty. I don't like it anymore than you do, but Marquez planting his foot makes it possible for the ref to blow his whistle. The starfish is painful to watch, always, but technically speaking it's a penalty.
I think people are generally excited for LvG, his tactics, and the fact his team is winning in the World Cup. You can't fault them. And most of them do know the team is average, which makes it even more remarkable. Sort of.
They're actually quite good but had a bad day today. Especially when you consider the heat, Mexico's strong performance, the loss of De Jong early on which rendered them a bit toothless in midfield, and an off day by RvP and Robben. I wouldn't be surprised if they march on to win it all, despite not having access to their most influential player.
LVG starting the job on a high note is a plus, no doubt. I just don't like this Holland side very much. I'm not sure I want them to do well just to have LVG arriving in Manchester in a good mood.
He only got the third penalty he deserved. He made sure he got it, yes, but it was one. He also jumped a few tackles in the box.
Special Mention to Dirk Kuyt for Today's game, btw.
First at LWB, then RB and even partnering Huntelaar for a period at 33 he was freaking everywhere in the heat of Fortaleza.
What does he Eat/Drink ?
First at LWB, then RB and even partnering Huntelaar for a period at 33 he was freaking everywhere in the heat of Fortaleza.
What does he Eat/Drink ?
The Netherlands at the world cup 2014 so far is the very definition of a one man team.
Scouse tears.
Nope. That's Argentina. Six different players have scored for Netherlands this tournament, more than any other team so far in the WC. (Stat courtesy Opta).
That's if you only see scoring as the most important thing on judging player.
True, but i bet 75% of the chances netherlands have created involves robben blasting through a defender. He is having an incredible tournament.
Or if you bothered to watch the games you'd see they're currently being carried through by Messi.
Di Maria, Higuain and co are yet to turn up. Aguero was shocking till he got injured, their midfield is crap and the defence look like conceeding whenever teams go forwards. The fact their keeper has been their second best player after Messi speaks volumes.
Well, what evidence is there to suggest Holland are a one man team? They've had game changing contributions from more than one player.
late comeback to win, LVG knows how to do things United style
He's not though is he? He was very good in the group stages, the stand out performer against Spain, but he was woeful today until the final quarter of the game, and he cheated to get his team through, and by that I mean the entire second half, not just the penalty incident. Massive over-exaggeration on his performances, bit cringeworthy.
They(team) are quite good, but mostly due the van Gaal combined with van Persie and Robben. Individually, they aren't that good.
Yes individually they may not be like Brazil or Germany, but that's irrelevant since its a team sport and they are in the quarters of the WC.
What he does prior to the penalty situation is why he is - cnut or not - one of the most dangerous players in the world. He's stood out as probably the sharpest offensive player so far in the World Cup - I don't think the praise he's been getting has been exaggerated at all. Nobody else in that team has done much to impress me, though.
Messi has been decisive with his goals. If that means carrying your team then you're right.
Di Maria had a good game against Nigeria. And the keeper was easily their best player against Iran.
Argentina have yet to face a strong team, unless you consider the likes of Bosnia, Iran, and Nigeria top teams.
Yeah, my initial point was that they aren't good individually, I never said anything about them as a team.
Yeah, he was incredible. One of the best players in the pitch.