Full verdict - non religious stuff starts on page 14.
http://www.supremecourt.gov.pk/web/user_files/File/Crl.A._39_L_2015.pdf
http://www.supremecourt.gov.pk/web/user_files/File/Crl.A._39_L_2015.pdf
Pakistan
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
Watching this on the news.
Humans are truly a ridiculous species.
Humans are truly a ridiculous species.
The PM addressed the nation, told them not to get involved with protests, told them it was politically motivated.
The religious leaders have a field day when such verdicts come out. It is their moment to show off and stay relevant.
It's mostly the fact that people clamor for someone to be killed because she said some religious dude who live a thousand years ago is a bit of a cnut
Hope she's granted asylum somewhere quickly.
She's going to get assassinated soon.
She's going to get assassinated soon.
They've bit off more than they can chew this time. Hopefully they'll choke on it. I read the judges verdict, it's a disgrace that such a flimsy case got to the supreme Court.
Been reading through this, it's full of interesting nuggets of information. For example here's something kind of relevant in light of recent events - in 1968 the director of the government-sponsored Institute of Islamic Research Fazlur Rahman was forced to resign and basically go into exile following the publication of a book of his which questioned the well-established orthodox stance on the nature of the Qur'an - Rahman had taken the reformist, modernist approach of implying that Muhammad had a hand in shaping the Qur'an to suit the context of his own time.
A cabinet meeting the day before Rahman's resignation concluded:
"True that the masses were steeped in ignorance about the correct nature of our religion but the time was not ripe now to put across rational views in religious matters. It would serve no useful purpose if Government took upon itself the responsibility to expound and defend the views of Dr. Fazlur Rahman. He should defend himself and Government should only provide him the necessary assistance and backing."
President Ayub Khan then recorded in his diary:
"It is quite clear that any form of research on Islam which inevitably leads to new interpretations has no chance of acceptance in this priest ridden and ignorant society. What will be the future of such an Islam in the age of reason and science is not difficult to predict."
Fazlur Rahman went on to have a successful academic career at the University of Chicago.
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I've said this before, but Pakistan is a society where being seen to be right, is more important than being right. Even if people clearly know that you are doing wrong, you still endeavour to be seen to be doing right, rather than actually do right.
We do this will all sorts of things we consider "right". Religion, culture, family values, wealth. Pakistani people will borrow to spend on weddings they can't afford, they will hate members of their family, but never admit it to themselves or anyone else openly, nor address the causes of that. We'll have all these cultural events because society expects us to, rather than because we want too. By far the most important is this sense of being seen to be religious.
People won't pray, even at home, but will show up for friday prayers because everyone else is going to be there. Some people won't fast, but will attend the iftar parties. We've gotten so used to these facades, many aren't true to themselves anymore, they've started believing their own bullshit. The wierd thing is there isn't any societal pressure or state enforcement, we're prisoners of our own minds.
These protestors, they're not people who are religous, they're people who feel the need to be seen to be holier than thou. Hyacinth Bouquet was more of a Pakistani than citizen Khan can ever dream of being.
Similarly, if someone wrote a controversial book about Islam, these same people rather than looking at the evidence and choosing to study it and then refute it, would rather burn some tyres, smash up some shops and tell people to "shut up and sit down".
We do this will all sorts of things we consider "right". Religion, culture, family values, wealth. Pakistani people will borrow to spend on weddings they can't afford, they will hate members of their family, but never admit it to themselves or anyone else openly, nor address the causes of that. We'll have all these cultural events because society expects us to, rather than because we want too. By far the most important is this sense of being seen to be religious.
People won't pray, even at home, but will show up for friday prayers because everyone else is going to be there. Some people won't fast, but will attend the iftar parties. We've gotten so used to these facades, many aren't true to themselves anymore, they've started believing their own bullshit. The wierd thing is there isn't any societal pressure or state enforcement, we're prisoners of our own minds.
These protestors, they're not people who are religous, they're people who feel the need to be seen to be holier than thou. Hyacinth Bouquet was more of a Pakistani than citizen Khan can ever dream of being.
Similarly, if someone wrote a controversial book about Islam, these same people rather than looking at the evidence and choosing to study it and then refute it, would rather burn some tyres, smash up some shops and tell people to "shut up and sit down".
@Zlatattack it's the same in any country where religion plays a huge role in social/political life.
People feel their religion and it's purity is the only thing that keeps them relevant, even if they don't say it.
People feel their religion and it's purity is the only thing that keeps them relevant, even if they don't say it.
I always remember going to the train station in Lahore during Ramazan and finding a dozen or so people behind a massive curtain on the platform happily having lunch in secret. Out of sight out of mind I suppose...
I suspect that was a facility provided for people who don't have to fast. I always found it strange though. Having lived in the UK all my life, nothing was more challenging about ramadan than the smell of school dinners after you spent lunch time playing football with your mates. We just got on with it though.
First time i ever fasted in Pakistan was a few years ago, went on holiday during Ramadan. Now as a traveller i wasn't fasting. Got off at islamabad airport, got into the car, stopped on the way home at a shop. picked up drinks and snacks. I'm quite thirsty at this point because it's been a couple of hours since i had anything to drink. started downing some mountain dew on my way from the shop to the parked car. Had some shopkeepers look at me funny, then got told off by my dad who was sat in the car face palming.
"it's ramadan you idiot, why are you drinking in front of everyone?!".
"why not?"
"because you're in f**king Pakistan, people here don't do that".
it was a very odd experience.
Yeah that would make sense. Although I was told by a very cynical fast-breaker that I chatted to that plenty of non-travelers used the facility as a cover. He might have just been trying to impress the Westerner though.
Plenty of people aren't as hot on religious practice as their words might suggest.
Maulana Sami ul Haq assassinated.
This just went from stupid protest to potential tinder for sectarian conflict. In the coming days you can expect JUI and other deobandi factions protesting his killing, depends on who they choose to blame to might go all barelvi vs deobandis, or they might also make it anti state.
Needless to say, i hope they roll tanks over the lot of them.
Failed assassination attempt on Hameed Gul's son.
Meanwhile, agreement reached between government and protesters.
Meanwhile, agreement reached between government and protesters.
The state bows before the mentals yet again.
For those in Pakistan or who are familiar with the place, what percentage of the population would you say is in favour of the protests and would have liked to see a conviction in this case?
What's the agreement?
Not really bowing though. Bowing would be reversing the verdict.
- Review petition against Aasia bibis acquittal
- Put her name in the ECL(exit control list, can't leave pakistan although some reports say she is in Canada)
- Immediately free the arrested TLP protesters no FIRs/cases will be filed against them
Thanks. Hopefully she's already out of the country.
On one hand I am hoping that is the case, on the other this government has a chance to take a stand against the mullahs and this really is the perfect moment to do so as a) judiciary with them and b) most parties with them.
A few innocent people, including a mother giving birth, has died due to the protests so the last point is really a joke.
Having a review petition and freeing the arrested twats with no FIR is very close to bowing tbh.
Nevertheless it's a very brave and good step by Pakistan judiciary. The SEA countries need to move away from religion.
Who can truly say. For a start 50% of the population can't even read the verdict because they're illiterate. That screws the nation every single time.
Of the other 50%, I'd say its 50/50. Bigotry runs deep, ignorance and an inability to think critically and independently runs even deeper. I've argued with so many people who haven't read the verdict but believe it's an international conspiracy by christen do to free Asia Bibi. Mind bogglingly stupid.
What we need is our own version of Mao.
Freeing the twats I definitely agree, I think or am hoping that the review petition is just something the government agreed so that the protestors can save face and nothing will change.
Another interesting thing that happened was that sami ul had was assassinated yesterday and the riots had the potential to turn ugly with the two groups fighting.
The review petition has already been filed by the original complainant in the case. The agreement states that the government won't object to the review petition.
Rumours are that Aasia is already in Canada.
Rumours are that Aasia is already in Canada.
Those who profess to believe and love the Prophet (SAW) should know he was sent as a mercy to the worlds. A simple reading of his biography shows many examples where the abusers who abused him verbally, pelted him with stones, threw garbage on him were treated with compassion, helped them in time of need and prayed for their guidance. This is the way of Islam and the Prophet. This is how you win hearts and minds.
If we are to love, honour the Prophet, his life, it should by adopting his sublime character, not through emotions of anger and hate. These people instead of raising the profile of their faith are actually harming the very fabric of faith they profess to love and protect.
If we are to love, honour the Prophet, his life, it should by adopting his sublime character, not through emotions of anger and hate. These people instead of raising the profile of their faith are actually harming the very fabric of faith they profess to love and protect.
If I encountered Aasia Bibi or any other person abusing the Prophet (SAW) I would have calmed them down with a glass of water, or milk. Invite them to my house for a meal and lavish the family with gifts and help the family financially if in need. This means you win hearts. I can pretty much guarantee the abuser will be apologetic and will never carry out the same act again. How this is not practised is beyond me as a Muslim.
I really hope so.
It's these so called Muslims that profess to love the Prophet (SAW) and then do the exact opposite thus besmirching his (SAW) name that are true abusers of the Prophet (SAW). And in the worst way possible too.
Not Asia Bibi.
You have to remember you are educated and live a decent life style. Imagine being uneducated, sweating in the heat, frustrated with life and everything around you. You become a negative ball of fire. It's not religious then, it's just an aggressive mentality that you need to channel outwards through some medium.
40% illiterate is a hell of a stat. That's nearly 80 million people
I've accompanied by colleagues and friends on lunches during ramzaan and I've sat alone during lunch breaks while watching everyone eat. I don't know why people make a big deal in muslim majority countries if someone is eating, seems too shallow to me.
My personal experience in kashmir when i visited during ramzaan was that there were more people going to mosques for namaaz than they were people fasting.
What is going on with this poor woman?
Now reading that she is still in prison which has been converted to a safe house, with anyone near her being checked thoroughly, even those preparing her food. Her lawyer has apparently fled to the NL.
Now reading that she is still in prison which has been converted to a safe house, with anyone near her being checked thoroughly, even those preparing her food. Her lawyer has apparently fled to the NL.
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But is it your religion that makes you a good person, or were you just born & raised that way ? I'm an atheist & neither of my parents had any strong religious beliefs, but they were good people who brought me up to be a good person. The world is made up of billions of individuals who all take a different path through life. Some encounter happiness & some don't. Some encounter lots of kindness, whilst others receive abuse, ridicule, neglect etc. Would you not agree that these factors are probably the main determining factor in how certain individuals see the world, & the people in it, through a very narrow, negative, lens ? It's not just a Muslim, or Pakistan, thing. It's reflected right across the globe in all cultures & all religions.
Well this is all very confusing. Was delighted until I saw the above.