[VP89]

I think you need to read the thread.

Its the content of the instagram posts and the timing of them.

I could be wrong but the thread hasn't lashed out at him being a member of instagram, more his handling of it and the reflection of his mentality.

 

[Dobbs]

Its the content of the instagram posts and the timing of them.

I could be wrong but the thread hasn't lashed out at him being a member of instagram, more his handling of it and the reflection of his mentality.

Exactly.

Lots of our players use Instagram. If posters really believed that automatically meant a lack of focus they'd all be receiving this criticism.

 

[Rado_N]

Its the content of the instagram posts and the timing of them.

I could be wrong but the thread hasn't lashed out at him being a member of instagram, more his handling of it and the reflection of his mentality.

There's been plenty of people just flatout saying he should stop using social media. It's nonsense.

Are you telling me that if he stops dancing around with his mates every now and then he'll suddenly improve on the pitch?

It's in the same bracket as the body language analysts we have on here. People just like to bitch.

 

[Litch]

Honestly I'm still buzzing that he's here. This lad is top draw and will be absolutely immense here. This league does take some adjustment and the team is in transition. We still have players that aren't united quality or mentality but I've seen enough special moments and technical ability that only maybe an handful of players could do to know we have a very special young player. The lad could be in double figures already with a bit more luck scoring from midfield not consistently playing well.

Don't watch the nonsense of social media, it's just a sign of the times and modern day football.

 

[Dobbs]

There's been plenty of people just flatout saying he should stop using social media. It's nonsense.

Are you telling me that if he stops dancing around with his mates every now and then he'll suddenly improve on the pitch?

It's in the same bracket as the body language analysts we have on here. People just like to bitch.

No, nobody is saying this. You're misunderstanding the argument.

When you start believing millions of people are interested in seeing you dance, that people want an emoji of you, that your arrival at a club should be greeted with a big fanfare, then you have a certain mentality. That's all it is. The worry is that you bring that mentality onto the pitch. I think he needs to mature a bit and I'm sure he will.

 

[Litch]

No, nobody is saying this. You're misunderstanding the argument.

When you start believing millions of people are interested in seeing you dance, that people want an emoji of you, that your arrival at a club should be greeted with a big fanfare, then you have a certain mentality. That's all it is. The worry is that you bring that mentality onto the pitch. I think he needs to mature a bit and I'm sure he will.

Not sure why we want to turn young lads into old men....

 

[Dobbs]

Not sure why we want to turn young lads into old men....

We don't.

I'm not sure why we want to turn young lads into self loving brands.

 

[VP89]

There's been plenty of people just flatout saying he should stop using social media. It's nonsense.

Are you telling me that if he stops dancing around with his mates every now and then he'll suddenly improve on the pitch?

It's in the same bracket as the body language analysts we have on here. People just like to bitch.

The call to have him off social media is silly and this topic is less about him as a player and more about his mentality.

When your club is languishing at 6th place and you find it just to focus on your extra cool handshakes & post that on instagram, you have your priorities wrong. Its not that he should be an ''old man'' or not have any form of banter - its that he should be cautious of the timing of such posts. The fact that he plays like piss on top of these posts make people question where his head truly is.

Rio is someone who understands the social media addiction but even he said there is a time for it. He would never feel the urge to post vids of him pissing about before a big game, because his head was in the right place.

 

[ZAGREB RED]

The call to have him off social media is silly and this topic is less about him as a player and more about his mentality.

When your club is languishing at 6th place and you find it just to focus on your extra cool handshakes & post that on instagram, you have your priorities wrong. Its not that he should be an ''old man'' or not have any form of banter - its that he should be cautious of the timing of such posts. The fact that he plays like piss on top of these posts make people question where his head truly is.

Rio is someone who understands the social media addiction but even he said there is a time for it. He would never feel the urge to post vids of him pissing about before a big game, because his head was in the right place.

This. It's not about social media/haircuts/celebration dances it's knowing there is a time and place. Pogba and Lingard sharing their new goal celebration dance before the goal less home draw with Hull only makes them look stupid. It's all about priorities, celebrate when you score, not show everyone what you will do when you score before it actually happens. Agree with above post, it's about being professional and focus on the task in hand, United are lagging well behind Chelsea and are not even in the top four when there are teams in there United should be ahead of.

 

[Litch]

We don't.

I'm not sure why we want to turn young lads into self loving brands.

If we were winning games, top of the league and he'd scored 15 goals already, we aren't having this conversation. People talk like self promotion is new. Players use to drive around in mobile business cards, no different. Stating the obvious only technology allows us to view players other than a the back of the bus eating chips and smoking a fag.

 

[Dobbs]

If we were winning games, top of the league and he'd scored 15 goals already, we aren't having this conversation. People talk like self promotion is new. Players use to drive around in mobile business cards, no different. Stating the obvious only technology allows us to view players other than a the back of the bus eating chips and smoking a fag.

No, if Pogba was performing in line with his off field status we wouldn't be having this conversation. He's not though. So this debate is about why not.

 

[sullydnl]

No, nobody is saying this. You're misunderstanding the argument.

When you start believing millions of people are interested in seeing you dance, that people want an emoji of you, that your arrival at a club should be greeted with a big fanfare, then you have a certain mentality. That's all it is. The worry is that you bring that mentality onto the pitch. I think he needs to mature a bit and I'm sure he will.

Those things are all true though. It would be weirder if he didn't believe it as that would indicate some sort of break from reality on his part.

It's also worth pointing out that the club is not only complicit in his self-promtion but actively benefits from it. The reality is that this sort of thing is part of how the club were able to justify his transfer fee in economic terms. Hardly surprising if he views it as a positive at this point.

 

[Litch]

The call to have him off social media is silly and this topic is less about him as a player and more about his mentality.

When your club is languishing at 6th place and you find it just to focus on your extra cool handshakes & post that on instagram, you have your priorities wrong. Its not that he should be an ''old man'' or not have any form of banter - its that he should be cautious of the timing of such posts. The fact that he plays like piss on top of these posts make people question where his head truly is.

Rio is someone who understands the social media addiction but even he said there is a time for it. He would never feel the urge to post vids of him pissing about before a big game, because his head was in the right place.

Do you communicate with the world the same way even 5 years ago? It's not the players mentality that needs to necessarily change, it's those fans understanding of it. There is no link between what someone posts and how they play. The perception is the fans and like I said, if we are top by 10 points and he's score 15 goals yet still posting stuff, we aren't having this conversation I reckon.

Rio like most ex-players can retrospectively have a view but like most of them I question their motivation and at times it feels like it's just another way of maintaining their profile in the game....

 

[Dobbs]

Those things are all true though. It would be weirder if he didn't believe it as that would indicate some sort of break from reality on his part.

It's also worth pointing out that the club is not only complicit in his self-promtion but actively benefits from it. The reality is that this sort of thing is part of how the club were able to justify his transfer fee in economic terms. Hardly surprising if he views it as a positive at this point.

Not sure that's true. Comes down to the question does media respond to what people want or does it drive what people want. I think the latter. Nobody was sat around hoping for a Pogba emoji. Now it exists of course people will use it.

Either way when you start to really buy into it I don't think it's healthy for a young lad. I think it's easy to see how it can affect on pitch performances.

Agree about the club being complicit. It's why I'm not saying this about Pogba with any blame. It must be really difficult for a young guy to resist this sort of stuff, when your employer is encouraging it, even harder. That's football today though.

 

[Litch]

No, if Pogba was performing in line with his off field status we wouldn't be having this conversation. He's not though. So this debate is about why not.

No link between the two. He was firing at Juve and was no different. Not playing well for lots of reasons that's been well debated. I've no idea other than I think at times he's trying to hard. Is there a manager in the world that wouldn't want Pogba in their team, I very much doubt it including Real, Barca or Bayern. Let's be patience as I believe in a couple of seasons, with the right quality of players around him, we'll have the best player in the world in his position.

 

[VP89]

Do you communicate with the world the same way even 5 years ago?

No one has a problem with him communicating in that manner - its the timing of it. You should look at Rio's criticism of Pogba, he said he has no problem with banter on social media. But to have it the day before the game like that on video isn't right.

It's not the players mentality that needs to necessarily change, it's those fans understanding of it. There is no link between what someone posts and how they play. The perception is the fans and like I said, if we are top by 10 points and he's score 15 goals yet still posting stuff, we aren't having this conversation I reckon.

It's quite clearly their mentality. Its not just fans that are opposing it but ex players too, who have been in those shoes before.

And yes, if we were top by 10 points then of course we wouldn't have the conversation because its fair enough to be relaxed and show banter videos then. But when you're 6th and trying to close a gap on the eve of a big important game, its a completely different story.

Rio like most ex-players can retrospectively have a view but like most of them I question their motivation and at times it feels like it's just another way of maintaining their profile in the game....

Except Rio never really did something like that as a player. Despite being so active on his own brand, he knew when to get his head in the game.

 

[Litch]

No one has a problem with him communicating in that manner - its the timing of it. You should look at Rio's criticism of Pogba, he said he has no problem with banter on social media. But to have it the day before the game like that on video isn't right.



It's quite clearly their mentality. Its not just fans that are opposing it but ex players too, who have been in those shoes before.

And yes, if we were top by 10 points then of course we wouldn't have the conversation because its fair enough to be relaxed and show banter videos then. But when you're 6th and trying to close a gap on the eve of a big important game, its a completely different story.



Except Rio never really did something like that as a player. Despite being so active on his own brand, he knew when to get his head in the game.

Rio is in no position to take the moral high ground as he was probably one of the first players to use social media in this way. The issue of posting before the game is only relevant to the result after. I guess where your right is given we are not winning leaves him open to criticism but again that's more an issue for people than him.

Anyone actually thought whether this helps his mentality rather than hinder it? That said I'm not sure Pogba has a mentality problem. I've not sure I've seen him mentally struggling and more maybe a lack of form, trying too hard or the team in general not playing well....

Mentally hasn't he had some big moments creating or scoring goals this season, and how many times has he hit the post this season? Bit more luck he'd been in double figures from midfield already. When's the last time have we seen that in the club? Patience I think we need rather than looking for something that's not necessarily there...

 

[Escobar]

I liked that Rio comment and I agree. Keep it under the radar until you actually win something. Otherwise, be professional and focus only on football and winning

 

[VP89]

Rio is in no position to take the moral high ground as he was probably one of the first players to use social media in this way. The issue of posting before the game is only relevant to the result after. I guess where your right is given we are not winning leaves him open to criticism but again that's more an issue for people than him.

Anyone actually thought whether this helps his mentality rather than hinder it? That said I'm not sure Pogba has a mentality problem. I've not sure I've seen him mentally struggling and more maybe a lack of form, trying too hard or the team in general not playing well....

Mentally hasn't he had some big moments creating or scoring goals this season, and how many times has he hit the post this season? Bit more luck he'd been in double figures from midfield already. When's the last time have we seen that in the club? Patience I think we need rather than looking for something that's not necessarily there...

Listen to what Rio said - he has no problem with social media. Its the timing of it thats wrong. Rio never posted on social media like Pogba does just before a match, so he's quite right to take the moral high ground.

 

[Litch]

I liked that Rio comment and I agree. Keep it under the radar until you actually win something. Otherwise, be professional and focus only on football and winning

Yep Rio, one of the first players that started the whole social media and football issue. Yep Rio, the player that was always 'professional' in his career, which amounted to him not going to a WC. Let's put this thing into perspective and there are no link to posting on social media, dancing, haircuts, designer clothes or funny dances to his game. All of the above he did at Juve and was still firing.

What would be more relevant is him out socially the night before a game (hmm Rio). Anyone any media showing him partying before a game? Surely this would be more relevant? Rio isn't the barometer and like I said, it's only an issue when we are not winning. If we were, we wouldn't be having this conversation and that's my issue.

Fans sometimes only see the wrong in stuff when we aren't doing well and would be more refreshing if they took the same strong view if we were. Rio, Scoles, Paul Parker including. Off subject but Scholes irritates the life out me as you couldn't get a word out of him when he played and now the only thing you get is negativity.

 

[VP89]

Yep Rio, one of the first players that started the whole social media and football issue. Yep Rio, the player that was always 'professional' in his career, which amounted to him not going to a WC. Let's put this thing into perspective and there are no link to posting on social media, dancing, haircuts, designer clothes or funny dances to his game. All of the above he did at Juve and was still firing.

What would be more relevant is him out socially the night before a game (hmm Rio). Anyone any media showing him partying before a game? Surely this would be more relevant?

Oh feck off. Rio was involved in defending his brother during a racial slur. I'd personally back his straight talking approach. He didn't get dropped for being a "pile of banter piss", which is what other posters have used to describe Pogba and Lingard.

When you say ''firing'' at Juventus, you do know he just got 8 league goals in 35 appearances in his final season, right?

 

[Litch]

Oh feck off. Rio was involved in defending his brother during a racial slur. I'd personally back his straight talking approach. He didn't get dropped for being a "pile of banter piss", which is what other posters have used to describe Pogba and Lingard.

When you say ''firing'' at Juventus, you do know he just got 8 league goals in 35 appearances in his final season, right?

your absolutely right, Rio is the moral footballer who never went out the night before games or involved in stuff that nearly ended his career. No he's never posted controversial stuff on social media and had any business interests that impacted on his football. Oh, but at least he didn't post anything before a game....

Oh Yes the barometer of whether Pogba was firing was cause he only scored 8 goals....we should ask for our money back. Now I'm feckin off to have a more adult conversation with my 5 year old.

 

[Dobbs]

your absolutely right, Rio is the moral footballer who never went out the night before games or involved in stuff that nearly ended his career. No he's never posted controversial stuff on social media and had any business interests that impacted on his football.

Oh Yes the barometer of whether Pogba was firing was cause he only scored 8 goals....we should ask for our money back. Now I'm feckin off to have a more adult conversation with my 5 year old.

Is Rio's opinion invalid because of mistakes he made during his career?

 

[Litch]

Is Rio's opinion invalid because of mistakes he made during his career?

Not invalid but not the foundation when we are talking professionalism and no more than if Beckham had expressed the same view. Just to clarify I'm not saying he should or shouldn't post stuff before or after the game just I don't think it mentally impacts on his game. He's always done it and doesn't seem to impact on his game either way at Juve

Does it leave him open to criticism...course it does but I think like others like Beckham and CR before him, their profile will always leave them open to criticism when things aren't great. To be honest, Ibra becomes to old, Martial is sulker, Rashford's hasn't kicked on, Rooneys over the hill....same for all the players when we don't win.

 

[VP89]

your absolutely right, Rio is the moral footballer who never went out the night before games or involved in stuff that nearly ended his career. No he's never posted controversial stuff on social media and had any business interests that impacted on his football. Oh, but at least he didn't post anything before a game....

Oh Yes the barometer of whether Pogba was firing was cause he only scored 8 goals....we should ask for our money back. Now I'm feckin off to have a more adult conversation with my 5 year old.

I never said Rio was perfect, but he wasn't fannying about on social media to the public the night before the game. Its a farce. Regardless of whether it affects you mentally on the pitch or not, it will certainly bring about media scrutiny which is the absolute last thing we need. Yeah, he did it at Juve too but he wasn't a world class midfielder there so I don't know why you keep talking about a different life and compare it to here. At Juve he was in the position to do that without scrutiny because the team were dominating. Here he we are 6th and he should have better sense than that.

When you say firing, I'm assuming you meant firing goals, which he wasn't. Perhaps you were referring to the assists to, which was a massive 5 in the league. Pogba's Juventus form is grossly overcooked on the caf.

 

[unitedforeveral]

Pogba is impressive!

 

[Litch]

I never said Rio was perfect, but he wasn't fannying about on social media to the public the night before the game. Its a farce. Regardless of whether it affects you mentally on the pitch or not, it will certainly bring about media scrutiny which is the absolute last thing we need. Yeah, he did it at Juve too but he wasn't a world class midfielder there so I don't know why you keep talking about a different life and compare it to here. At Juve he was in the position to do that without scrutiny because the team were dominating. Here he we are 6th and he should have better sense than that.

When you say firing, I'm assuming you meant firing goals, which he wasn't. Perhaps you were referring to the assists to, which was a massive 5 in the league. Pogba's Juventus form is grossly overcooked on the caf.

Media scrutiny comes to this club irrespective and when we aren't playing well, everything comes under the spotlight. I'm not sure what you mean about Pogba not being world class at Juve as he's still not world class yet here either. I think the camparsion of using social media is therefore the same. Like I said, if it's either right or wrong to do it, how well a team's doing shouldn't matter dominating or not.

I made no reference to any season at Juve, just whether he's scoring or assists, we broke the record to get him here and arguably he would make the starting 11 in any team in the world on that form and that's why we broke the record.

 

[Dobbs]

Not invalid but not the foundation when we are talking professionalism and no more than if Beckham had expressed the same view. Just to clarify I'm not saying he should or shouldn't post stuff before or after the game just I don't think it mentally impacts on his game. He's always done it and doesn't seem to impact on his game either way at Juve

Does it leave him open to criticism...course it does but I think like others like Beckham and CR before him, their profile will always leave them open to criticism when things aren't great. To be honest, Ibra becomes to old, Martial is sulker, Rashford's hasn't kicked on, Rooneys over the hill....same for all the players when we don't win.

You can't just put every observation down to us not winning. Sometimes what we see is actually the case.

 

[VP89]

Media scrutiny comes to this club irrespective and when we aren't playing well, everything comes under the spotlight. I'm not sure what you mean about Pogba not being world class at Juve as he's still not world class yet here either. I think the camparsion of using social media is therefore the same. Like I said, if it's either right or wrong to do it, how well a team's doing shouldn't matter dominating or not.

Of course media scrutiny comes with the job, but you try and ground yourself and shun it out the best way possible. Its why Ferguson had a strict ban on social media during his time here. Since twitter and instagram has exploded after his retirement, the club cannot enforce that anymore. But they can guide the players or at least the players themselves can actively try to remain professional in their image.

He wasn't world class and he isn't world class now - I'm glad we agree there. But can you define "firing at Juvenuts" please. You said he was firing and seemed to claim you have more adult conversations with a 5 year old when I showed he only scored 8 and assisted 5. So what exactly did Pogba ''fire''?

I made no reference to any season at Juve, just whether he's scoring or assists, we broke the record to get him here and arguably he would make the starting 11 in any team in the world on that form and that's why we broke the record.

You said he was firing at Juventus. He wasn't "firing" in any of the seasons.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

Has anyone checked if he's done any dancing in the last 72 hours? Or if he has had a haircut at all? or worn a particular risky hat? I just want to make sure I have a completely irrelevant to performance stick to beat him with in case today doesn't go well.

 

[El-Manos]

I love our poggers but he has been average now for the last few games. Needs to step it up again, keep his head down and start producing magic again.

 

[VP89]

Has anyone checked if he's done any dancing in the last 72 hours? Or if he has had a haircut at all? or worn a particular risky hat? I just want to make sure I have a completely irrelevant to performance stick to beat him with in case today doesn't go well.

We don't need to use his instagram videos to criticise him - he's terribly inconsistent on the pitch.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

We don't need to use his instagram videos to criticise him - he's terribly inconsistent on the pitch.

I completely agree with calling a spade a spade, he has bad games quite often, it just drives me mad when people try to link it to him as a person being too flashy.

 

[VP89]

I completely agree with calling a spade a spade, he has bad games quite often, it just drives me mad when people try to link it to him as a person being too flashy.

He is too flashy though.

I'm sure he's a nice guy too. He's obviously very flashy and fair enough to him. The eyebrow I'm raising is the decision to release videos of some changing room dances the night before a big game when 1) the team is no way near where they should be in the league and 2) he himself is inconsistent.

 

[LeftyBlaster]

Who gives a feck really how they look though. Theyre just having a bit of fun. If it provides criticism and the criticism doesnt bother them then I dont see what it changes

I know they're just having a bit of fun, and it doesn't bother me that they do. But the criticism should affect them because they haven't been performing.

 

[K2K]

I completely agree with calling a spade a spade, he has bad games quite often, it just drives me mad when people try to link it to him as a person being too flashy.

It's idiotic criticism in all honesty.

You would expect such things from rival fans but we get it from our own fans too.

 

[Jed I. Knight]

I hope he steps up again tonight. Our run of great form, and our more recent meagre return, has both coincided with him being very good and then not near his best lately. It's clear that when he's playing to his potential, it elevates the entire team, so hopefully we'll see him back on top again today. I think we'll need it if we are to grab all three points.

 

[LouisDanGaal]

He is too flashy though.

I'm sure he's a nice guy too. He's obviously very flashy and fair enough to him. The eyebrow I'm raising is the decision to release videos of some changing room dances the night before a big game when 1) the team is no way near where they should be in the league and 2) he himself is inconsistent.

You can judge him as a footballer based on what he does on the pitch and you can also judged him based on how professional he is, if he was smoking, drinking or lazy in training they are all sound reasons to judge a player. To judge him on anything else, such as how he spends his time, or what he is posting on social media is wrong as it has absolutely nothing do with him as a player, you're judging him as a person there and you don't have a right to do that and anyone who thinks these things have anything to do with performance is way off the mark.

 

[VP89]

You can judge him as a footballer based on what he does on the pitch

Which is what we've done and is seperate my current discussion with him.

you can also judged him based on how professional he is, if he was smoking, drinking or lazy in training they are all sound reasons to judge a player. To judge him on anything else, such as how he spends his time, or what he is posting on social media is wrong as it has absolutely nothing do with him as a player, you're judging him as a person there and you don't have a right to do that and anyone who thinks these things have anything to do with performance is way off the mark.

I'm not judging him as a player, I'm saying he's not showing the right mentality in that video. Its unprofessional to be posting those sorts of banter vids on the eve of a game when your team is in such a shite position. There are no two ways about it, even Rio called him out on it. A player who knows more than anyone on the caf about how players should act about gamedays.

 

[Fergus' son]

He's been atrocious for weeks now.