6
My issue with that diamond, is there is no pace or width there and we would get found out again. I think it would end up with us over relying on wing backs for width. and wins would be hard to come by.
Excellent. I too believe that Herrera (although I like him for what he's good at) cannot be our second most creative midfielder. We need 1 more midfielder at least who wants the ball at his feet and wants to dictate. Verratti (unlikely, I know) and Fabinho (as a DM) would both fit that and would improve Pogba's performances significantly.
For me the Pogba conundrum is a huge managerial headache which if it can be resolved, can result in us having a top tier midfielder on our hands and if not.. a huge tactical hindrance which will hold us back in the next few years, preventing us from signing certain players while we try in vain to get the best out of him.
POGBA IN THE FIRST HALF OF GAMES (NOT A FORMATION ISSUE)
For me this isn't a formation issue anymore. You could play 4-2-3-1, or 4-3-3 and have him as the creator in the double-pivot or you can have him as the LAM (like he played at Juve) and he would still struggle to dominate games in the first half of EPL games.. why? because the high tempo of games in the EPL (away games) will mean he has less time and space on the ball, which makes it very hard for him to play his normal tempo and rushes him into either bad decisions, or makes him want to try and dribble his way out of situations but he ends up losing the ball because the ferocity of the pressing is too much for a gangly guy like him to sidestep his way through.
At home, we face packed defences.. which is another issue for Pogba. He doesn't have the patience or intelligence to find pockets of space in tight areas, or to dictate the passing, or thread clever balls through very tight defences. He tends to go for the long ball too often, and when he drives through the packed defences, ends up overdoing it, falling over his feet and losing the ball. His poor positioning, also leaves us vulnerable to the counter.
In general also, he just lacks aggression completely in the first half of games, almost as if he is taking time to limber up and he has no emotion towards the game yet. He isn't fired up yet.
POGBA IN SECOND HALF OF GAMES
He generally is a different animal in the second half of games.. if we are in the lead, he's an absolute beast on the counter and even in games where we are trying to break teams down. He tends to create chances, and his passing etc is generally crisper in the second half. Where he needs to improve is his finishing ability, because he always strikes the post etc but he gets himself into good positions and he is very creative in the second half of games.. the blood is pumping and he starts playing by instinct.
That second half v Sunderland, people might laugh but that was world class level of performance from a midfielder. No other midfielder in the prem could have an impact like that, tricks, passing, driving.. it was insanely good but the issue is, he doesn't do that over entire 90 minutes and can't do it against all opposition consistently. He ranges from 4/10 to 10/10 over the course of a game, whereas a elite CM is close to 8/10 all game.
I remember our loss to City earlier in the season, and Pogba had some insanely good moments.. but it is doing it throughout a game. I don't think it is a formation issue, but somehow we need to tactically make up for his deficiencies in the first half of games and utilise him to maximum effect in the second half of games, when spaces open up.
SOLUTIONS TO THE POGBA CONUNDRUM
Simply put, the current system of just giving it to Pogba to create doesn't cut it. Surrounding him with CDM's, like Herrera/Carrick/Fellaini.. isn't going to bring out the best of him or United. He isn't good enough to be given the keys to break down teams in the first half or to dominate games when both teams have lots of energy. When the competition in midfield is fierce, Pogba usually goes AWOL. Its part mixture of nonchalance, inexperience in midfield, and his general physique/style of play.. which makes it harder for him to battle in comparison to a Herrera, whose nippiness/natural aggression/agility makes it easier for him to go toe to toe in this fast paced midfield confrontations.
What United need, and what Pogba needs is midfielders who can do the heavy lifting of controlling a game, creating chances, scoring chances and to let him be a luxury player during the first half of games. It sounds silly, but Pogba can be a very special player in certain scenarios, but trying to make him your Xavi.. or your Gerrard, doesn't work.. because he is a hybrid of lots of different things, and a specialist at none.. so you have to understand the nuances of what makes him tick.
Its like the Pirlo situation. If he was english, he'd have failed because no one would have had the deep appreciation for the gifts he does have, and instead would have beat him up for not having the attributes of what we want in our ideal CM. What United need is to bring in a Verratti/Modric style midfielder and a Fabinho.. so we have a midfield which can compete in any game. We need wide midfielders who can be relied upon to create chances at will/score goals, and we need maestro's up front who can stretch the opposition and all these things will relieve the burden on Pogba, let him find his feet and start getting 10-15 goals and being a big factor in United dominating the second half of games.
I'd like to see us play 4-4-2, in home games next year against weak opposition and play him as a left winger with an overlapping LWB, and then in second half of games, push him more centrally either as a LAM, or CM once spaces open up and he can do his thing. Away from home, similarly.. we need to ensure he isn't left exposed to be the sole creator in games, and the go to guy in possession.. just let him float around, but the side needs to be super strong to be able to get by while Pogba is awol and then in the second half, once he begins to kick in.. then he can have a huge influence.
FIRST HALF OF GAMES
SECOND HALF OF GAMES
SUMMARY
Probably am talking out of my arse and buying new players, trying to use him in way I cited above.. might not work and he still underperforms, but there is something obviously up with the way he is in 80% of games, when we are struggling, fighting the opposition and he looks piss poor and then other times when we have some space and he looks like a world beater. Easy thing to conclude is that he is a fair weather player but I have seen him score crucial goals in big games, on big stages.. and that tells me, he does have some character but I don't think anyone has unlocked how best to utilise him yet.
What team wouldn't he get into?
Alternatively. This place has become an hive for negativity on anything and everything related to the club. I think he's been pretty damn good this season.
It has to be yet another wind up by him.
Honestly, his price tag makes it hard not to expect something outstanding and makes it hard to be satisfied by regular 6/10 performances.
Great post. Why is it that Pogba favours the left side of midfield rather than drifting right? He's right footed isn't he
For me the Pogba conundrum is a huge managerial headache which if it can be resolved, can result in us having a top tier midfielder on our hands and if not.. a huge tactical hindrance which will hold us back in the next few years, preventing us from signing certain players while we try in vain to get the best out of him.
POGBA IN THE FIRST HALF OF GAMES (NOT A FORMATION ISSUE)
For me this isn't a formation issue anymore. You could play 4-2-3-1, or 4-3-3 and have him as the creator in the double-pivot or you can have him as the LAM (like he played at Juve) and he would still struggle to dominate games in the first half of EPL games.. why? because the high tempo of games in the EPL (away games) will mean he has less time and space on the ball, which makes it very hard for him to play his normal tempo and rushes him into either bad decisions, or makes him want to try and dribble his way out of situations but he ends up losing the ball because the ferocity of the pressing is too much for a gangly guy like him to sidestep his way through.
At home, we face packed defences.. which is another issue for Pogba. He doesn't have the patience or intelligence to find pockets of space in tight areas, or to dictate the passing, or thread clever balls through very tight defences. He tends to go for the long ball too often, and when he drives through the packed defences, ends up overdoing it, falling over his feet and losing the ball. His poor positioning, also leaves us vulnerable to the counter.
In general also, he just lacks aggression completely in the first half of games, almost as if he is taking time to limber up and he has no emotion towards the game yet. He isn't fired up yet.
POGBA IN SECOND HALF OF GAMES
He generally is a different animal in the second half of games.. if we are in the lead, he's an absolute beast on the counter and even in games where we are trying to break teams down. He tends to create chances, and his passing etc is generally crisper in the second half. Where he needs to improve is his finishing ability, because he always strikes the post etc but he gets himself into good positions and he is very creative in the second half of games.. the blood is pumping and he starts playing by instinct.
That second half v Sunderland, people might laugh but that was world class level of performance from a midfielder. No other midfielder in the prem could have an impact like that, tricks, passing, driving.. it was insanely good but the issue is, he doesn't do that over entire 90 minutes and can't do it against all opposition consistently. He ranges from 4/10 to 10/10 over the course of a game, whereas a elite CM is close to 8/10 all game.
I remember our loss to City earlier in the season, and Pogba had some insanely good moments.. but it is doing it throughout a game. I don't think it is a formation issue, but somehow we need to tactically make up for his deficiencies in the first half of games and utilise him to maximum effect in the second half of games, when spaces open up.
SOLUTIONS TO THE POGBA CONUNDRUM
Simply put, the current system of just giving it to Pogba to create doesn't cut it. Surrounding him with CDM's, like Herrera/Carrick/Fellaini.. isn't going to bring out the best of him or United. He isn't good enough to be given the keys to break down teams in the first half or to dominate games when both teams have lots of energy. When the competition in midfield is fierce, Pogba usually goes AWOL. Its part mixture of nonchalance, inexperience in midfield, and his general physique/style of play.. which makes it harder for him to battle in comparison to a Herrera, whose nippiness/natural aggression/agility makes it easier for him to go toe to toe in this fast paced midfield confrontations.
What United need, and what Pogba needs is midfielders who can do the heavy lifting of controlling a game, creating chances, scoring chances and to let him be a luxury player during the first half of games. It sounds silly, but Pogba can be a very special player in certain scenarios, but trying to make him your Xavi.. or your Gerrard, doesn't work.. because he is a hybrid of lots of different things, and a specialist at none.. so you have to understand the nuances of what makes him tick.
Its like the Pirlo situation. If he was english, he'd have failed because no one would have had the deep appreciation for the gifts he does have, and instead would have beat him up for not having the attributes of what we want in our ideal CM. What United need is to bring in a Verratti/Modric style midfielder and a Fabinho.. so we have a midfield which can compete in any game. We need wide midfielders who can be relied upon to create chances at will/score goals, and we need maestro's up front who can stretch the opposition and all these things will relieve the burden on Pogba, let him find his feet and start getting 10-15 goals and being a big factor in United dominating the second half of games.
I'd like to see us play 4-4-2, in home games next year against weak opposition and play him as a left winger with an overlapping LWB, and then in second half of games, push him more centrally either as a LAM, or CM once spaces open up and he can do his thing. Away from home, similarly.. we need to ensure he isn't left exposed to be the sole creator in games, and the go to guy in possession.. just let him float around, but the side needs to be super strong to be able to get by while Pogba is awol and then in the second half, once he begins to kick in.. then he can have a huge influence.
FIRST HALF OF GAMES
SECOND HALF OF GAMES
SUMMARY
Probably am talking out of my arse and buying new players, trying to use him in way I cited above.. might not work and he still underperforms, but there is something obviously up with the way he is in 80% of games, when we are struggling, fighting the opposition and he looks piss poor and then other times when we have some space and he looks like a world beater. Easy thing to conclude is that he is a fair weather player but I have seen him score crucial goals in big games, on big stages.. and that tells me, he does have some character but I don't think anyone has unlocked how best to utilise him yet.
If we want to play with pace and width we either need to drop the Griezmann transfer and get a genuine quality wide man or let Ibra go and again bring in a high quality winger.
Not sure if it was really necessary to repost old comments tbh.
He asked for it. While you are it you can also tell @TheReligion whether you were serious or wumming.
I was serious but only in the sense I thought his application and attitude was a bit questionable - ok so the Ballotelli comparison was very harsh however he is an example of a very talented player who should have made it to the very top but didn't get there because he just didn't have the right attitude. Now I'm NOT saying Pobga is a Ballotelli at all, just questioning his attitude a little. It's only because I have high expectations of the player and have been pretty disappointed in him so far - not sure if his attitude during the matches is not where it should be or if it's just his demeanour. You guys watch him a lot more than me, what do you think?
I think his playing style (or running/walking style) gives that impression and he isn't defensively strong which adds to that.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20140724/wenger-on-piresGreat post. Why is it that Pogba favours the left side of midfield rather than drifting right? He's right footed isn't he
Most footballers have a side where they feel more comfortable receiving the ball in, and it opens the game up for them when they're on that side of the pitch.
Interesting, cheers!
The term itself might be BS, but everyone's eyesight is different.. I'm pretty much blind in my right eye, so I don't tend to do well on the right when receiving the ball with my back to goal whereas on the left side, I find it easier to see whats happening further up the pitch. Can also be the way you like to dribble the ball, which affects where abouts on the pitch you like to get the ball. Myriad of factors which can come into play.
This is the thing I don't quite understand with us targeting Griezmann. The only way I see that working is with the diamond I posted earlier.
Or hes just a 24 year old midfielder having a decent season adjusting to a faster league. Hes been hurt by unreal expectations and missed chances by him and his teammates but other than that hes been fine. Hes never sulked or ran away. Hes always tried even when it didnt go well which is much better than hiding. He created at least two solid chances per games most of the time. He doesnt really showboat and he clearly is one of the hardest workers on out team. His dancing and haircuts mean nothing. Hes 24 stop acting likes hes a 28 year old has been.
Yeah crying straight to the bank on £250 a week.my heart bleedsJuventus easily defeated Barcelona while he plays DM in the Europa league...he must cry right now
Joke about missing the k
A middle ground concept that's hard for some sycophants on here to grasp it seems
Yes, @Nipower888 's post looked quite sensible to me.
The thing is, everyone gives themselves license to be stupid, as soon as they've decided their heart is on the right side of some issue. Once you establish that, there is no such thing as hyperbole or inaccuracy, because all your opinion constitutes is a drop in the ocean of the general perception. So you just push, as far and hard as you can, in the 'right' direction, and you sacrifice truthfulness to making the right contribution to the general zeitgeist.
He hasn't been our best player, but to claim he hasn't had a good season given the circumstances is hardly baffling. He's come into the season and with ridiculous pressure, in a team not half as dominant as what he's become accustomed to and for the most part has looked good. Could he have been better? Sure. Is he worth the money? No, no player is imo. He's had to be the catalyst for a team that's not quite there yet, but signing players of Pogba's ilk is steps in the right direction
I don't think that's baffling either.
Ye, I agree with your point for the most part, it could be applied to both parties here. Was just claiming I'm in the middle, think he's had a good season but also think he is capable of offering much more
See, I knew this would happen. Did you not claim in the post I quoted that to claim 'he hasn't had a good' season is hardly baffling?
Fair enough.
