He's regressed massively under Mourinho and during his time at United.
Looks like a Woodward signing more than a Mourinho one.
Looks like a Woodward signing more than a Mourinho one.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 16
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
He thinks he is better than he really is.
He played in his favorite position, still nothing. I remember at the start of the season he was way better in a midfield of 2 with Matic.
Do you think we should continue playing 433?
Do you think we should continue playing 433?
The team were all collectively shit except DDG, no need to blame pogba, if anything was gonna happen it was quite evident it was coming through him. Still a bad game for him, just like the rest of the team.
Absolute crap. First half those names rarely played and Im not even sure why Carricks the barometer anyway. Plus I think its unfair to put Nani, Park and Fletch in that list cause at their best, they'd walk into this team anyway....which is my point. Make your point with the players that regularly started with Scholes and Carrick like Ronaldo, young Rooney, Keano, Beckham, Giggs, Cole, Yorke, Van N, Stam, Vidic, Rio, Nev, Evra....then you might have one.
Look across the road and see if its not easier to play with quality players in the team?
We are always proportioning the blame on the most creative players that have the hardest job to do on the pitch. Its easy to play safe but Im sure he'd be criticised for that too. The one trick, too many stepovers, selfish in his play and no end product proved many on here wrong. Pogba isnt the problem, take a look at the supporting cast as great as Messi and CR are, those teams are full of genuinely proven world class players...
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You really cant blame Pogba on last night. Was the best of a bad bunch. The one thing you can say is he tried shit.
Matic, Fellaini misplacing easy 5 yard passes.
The front 3 being nonexistent.
Rashford being selfish.
Pogba and Rojo where the only outfielders who weren't shameful!
Matic, Fellaini misplacing easy 5 yard passes.
The front 3 being nonexistent.
Rashford being selfish.
Pogba and Rojo where the only outfielders who weren't shameful!
I think you're being a bit generous there...Although I'll agree about Rojo.
I thought Pogba was absoltue gash last night ( OK, plenty of others were ) and that's another one of the problems with him.
A dominant or even just a good MFer is someone who can make the team play well.
The more I watch Pogba, the more it seems he can only play well when everyone else is playing well, and if you want to be the ' Main Man ' it should be the other way round.
You do realise his position was more advanced than Fellaini and Matic? It was their job to bring the ball from defence, not his. He didn't 'decide' anything. In a 433, he just plays as the most advanced midfielder rather than someone in a pivot, so most of his work is taking the ball from midfield into the final third. If he dropped deep, there would have been a massive space between our midfield and attack. Mourinho would have taken him off if he wasn't playing where he was suppossed to.
Major peeve with him is he doesn't track back or show any urgency after losing the ball, but he wasn't the worst last night. We struggled far more in other areas of the pitch, and the fact that our front 3 weren't stretching the play at all made it worse for us. Am worried though that he'll never be the main engine of the team which is what I thought he would be when we signed him.
feck the haters. Least this guy wants to play. Watching Matic and Fellaini plod around is unbearable most of the time. Give me bad Pogba any day over that crap
I agree but I’m more forgiving with Matic as he’s been a great buy. But others seem to hide and these two never do. We need our players to have heart and courage on the ball but we have a few who hide. I won’t mention as they have their fans on here as they are pretty and nice personalities. Man I prefer a dour and dry Scholes or a sometimes manic Keane or an angry Great Dane. Someone with a big personality or ego (like Pogba or Zlatan) basically a winner and we lack them big time but I have belief in our manager. With this shower of averageness he’s got us to where we’d actually win leagues in other recent years gone by. City have just been untouchable this season as us Pool Spurs Arsenal and Chelsea found out. We should not only compare us to City but to the other teams around (who have been better than us over the last few years) and Jose has taken us past them.
Matic is excellent on the ball im not getting this. If anything it’s his lack of mobility is his weakness certainly not on the ball.
For me he was the only one who even tried to get us to perform better, The rest were just doing the same thing over and over again.
Pogba at least tried to do shit. It never really came off but hell a fair portion of that was down to how bad our front 3 where.
TLDR: He wasn't good but feck me at least he tried. The same can't be said for Matic, Fellaini etc.
Yes, I think it is quite useless (even though it might be fair) to criticize one or two players when the whole thing is shambles. Mourinhos mumbling about "now you see why I don't play the other guys" is ridiculous when the performance as a whole, as a team, as a well working and functioning unit is totally non existent. Bollocks.
I don't need to mention the great players though. The debate is to whether we can expect Paul to perform when playing with lesser talented players which I think he should. United have gone through many transitions where Scholes was struggling to have a great midfield partner after Keane left but he still held it down. Same with Carrick when Scholes got old. He took responsibility especially in 2013 when we had one of our worst teams. Those players Nani Valencia Chica being important, whats your point? all United's starting players are important to us, even the ones now. We are the 2nd best team in the league atm. The fact is that our previous talented CM have played alongside far less talented players and performed. Pogba plays with established players Sanchez (far more proven than Nani, Valencia etc,) Lukaku (proven EPL striker) Matic 2 times EPL winner, De Gea, Smalling (EPL winners), Valencia (funny enough EPL winner), so its not like he is in a worse position than some of our previous midfielders. he just does not have their mentality. Its just as simple as that. Paul is his own worse enemy. He could be the leading driving force of the team like Stevie Me when playing with all the dross Liverpool served up, yet he seems too self indulgent and wanting to play like Kobe.
He has substance because he does deliver goals and assists but I Kind of get what you mean. Kind of.........
Scholes came back in 2012 to our financially starved team. 2011-13, what was our midfield and attackers like? The defence was good but what has that to do with why Pogba cannot perform with less talented attacking players? Carrick should be a barometer as he was a reason why we could get away with not having more midfielders at the time.
That what's considered excellent for a Manchester united midfielder now? Taking all day to play the safest passed imaginable? Scholes, Carrick, Keane, Robson. They were excellent on the ball. Matic is safe. Jose has spent the season glorifying carthorses. His player of the season was basically a choice between 2 plodders.
To be fair, it doesn't matter if he's supposedly in that position, but if we are playing Matic and Fellaini then it's still basically up to Pogba to control the team and do all the playmaking. That shouldn't be his role. Somebody else should be doing that with Pogba then playing off them.
Pogba is capable of playing that role himself, in either a two or three man midfield, but I don't think he'll ever be consistent in it. That seems to be the issue at the moment - he'll do it one week and have a great game, then the next week he struggles.
Read my post again. The players that are being 'lesser' are only deemed that way cause of the higher quality of the players around them at the time. Those 'lesser' players would walk into this team for quality and winning mentality. Didn't we win the league during that time? I'm not talking about 'more' as people memories are short as even Carrick qualities were questioned on here (again) when our experiences were Scholes and Keane. Even the Rolls Royce of Veron struggled.....
My point is all the 10 world class players are probably playing in teams significantly better than ours. For me it's just logical as aside from Rom (and that's arguably) since SAF we have not had a forward thinking creative player that hasn't struggled. Not one. Think we need to stop blaming these players and look why we can't get a tune out of Rashford, Martial, Rom, Mata, Pogba and Rom (to a degree) as far too often he's left isolated up front. Sanchez will be next on the list. I guess Lingards done well but there's always the exception to the rule....
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.....and also let's not forget, there is the 'team' we are playing against too. It's not like they just leave him to do what he wants. I think when there's quality all over the pitch, it's harder for teams to legislate for and gives players more room to play. The expectation is for him to do more, yet as you say he's plays with 2 one dimensional players yesterday. Another point lost on yesterday's match is no Herrera. Pogba's upturn I think is because Herrera offers more than any other midfielder here along with Pogba. Assist and goal against Spurs....
Even if it was, when you see your team struggling to do something you can do, help the team
Herrera does offer more than our other current options, but he's still not good enough at that particular role that we are missing. It's a great balance against other top teams, but against the rest of the league it does leave us with a lack of creativity. Hopefully we can bring the right player in over the transfer window, and then Herrera can basically be first choice midfield sub and rotate amongst the others.
Who's helping him?
So he is criticized for his defensive output, off the ball movement and his all around midfield play. Nothing to do with his goals output like Pogba himself is trying to claim so you back up his defensive and midfield contributions with some goals? Are you genuinely stupid?
Agree. That midfield with say a Tony Kroos would look so different. I get people's frustrations but at least Pogba's ceiling and potential is high enough to play for any top team in the world. Like him or not, sold tmw he'd be worth 130m easy. Saidly aside from DDG, there not much else that comes close.
Matic has consistently been a class above Pogba all season. Which games have you been watching? Agree with you on Fellaini though, I think he's a sad excuse for a midfielder.
And it's very questionable that Pogba "wants to play." His languid body language and pony show tricks yesterday was bullshit, and it's not the first time he's played like that. He's had games like that all season, with the away at Newcastle being particularly horrific.
Come on @SteveW you obviously don’t like Matic but he’s very assured in possession and a good passer of the ball. Whatever else you think of him then that’s ok and up to you but come on he’s not poor on he ball and his choice of pass is usually excellent.
Only the Caf would you see some people trying to claim Pogba has been performing better than his partner Matic.
Here's a hint - one of them had to be dropped because he was playing so wank.
Here's a hint - one of them had to be dropped because he was playing so wank.
His defensive contribution has never been called to account by Conte or Allegri at Juve. The stats I've provided in the past have proved that. But I wouldn't expect a idiot who thought James Rodriguez played in a midfield two for Bayern to understand that...
His overall performance was poor but multiple times i saw him trying to close down the player even when it was with their keeper. He is defiantly putting the effort thats for sure. Need some of the other players to step up when he's having a poor game
Defiantly or definitely? Haha
I think over the course of the season, Pogba has been better and made more of an impact. Matic had his bad spells too
He's appeared 14 less times than Matic this season due to various issues. No matter what positives he's had (and he's been wank plenty of times as well), he hasn't out-performed Matic throughout the entire season.
I really dislike his attitude towards the game. It´s all to easy and when it´s not working he just strolls around with a stick up his @rs..
He never digs in and works his socks off. Never changes styles and plays the easy pass or moves the ball quickly when he has an off game and never even tries to make a tackle. Players just run past him every time they want as he doesn´t even bother with trying.
I think I could be right here that we won´t see an improved Pogba until the board removes Jose from the helm or he plays for someone else..
He never digs in and works his socks off. Never changes styles and plays the easy pass or moves the ball quickly when he has an off game and never even tries to make a tackle. Players just run past him every time they want as he doesn´t even bother with trying.
I think I could be right here that we won´t see an improved Pogba until the board removes Jose from the helm or he plays for someone else..
Would you take 100 million for him and buy a replacement that fits jose?
Becauase like it or not Mourinho aint leaving
Becauase like it or not Mourinho aint leaving
I give jose a season more, max.
I can't see him taking us close to City next season.
Well if this season is repeated he should be gone.
But im hoping that City can be caught
Yeah we all are.
But I'm not a fan of this siege mentality, players have to die for me etc. It really does take the fun and enjoyment out of the game and leaves the general vibe being quite toxic.
To answer your first question, I'd honestly just clear out these flair players who dont suit mourinho. Buy into his philosophy 100% and don't half arse it. If he fails to deliver the title then, he has no more excuses.
If it allows us to buy Kroos, i probably would. It's a pity cos i really like Pogba's skillset as a player, but he's not the ideal midfielder in a Jose team for now. Unless and unless Jose can find the right partner for Pogba. But then, we seem to agree Matic was the one but the partnership ain't working
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