[Ljungster]

What was the worst case recovery for such an injury? Seems as though that is the timeline.

It depends on what type of injury he have. My guess regarding what I have heard is that he got a partial hamstrings tendon tear, which is why there were talks of surgery. Ousmane Dembele got a full tear of the hamstrings tendon and he had to get surgery on it. A hamstrings muscle tear usually takes around 21 days to recover from, depending on severity while a full tear of the hamstrings tendon takes around 5-6 months with surgery most of the time. A partial tendon tea is usually a month or two faster recovery compared ot the full tear. My guess is that they are being more conservative regarding his return to play because of the high re-injury rate with hamstrings injuries.
I work as a physiotherapist incase someone is wondering where I got the info from.

 

[Dobbs]

Yup. And when our side (if I can call it that) argues that our performances had gone down hill because we're missing our best player, we get responses such as "its indicative of how poor we are that we rely on one player to construct our attacks" and other silly responses. However, when we beat Tottenham, their (dark) side argues that we only beat them because Kane wasn't there - how bad are Tottenham that they rely on Kane?

If you ask me, it's a silly time to be alive. Personally, I've learnt to be a little more patient after the last few years but some parts of this forum seem to lack that ability. Sounds harsh but, imo, seems true.

We were nothing without Rooney in 09/10 and would have been equally bad without RvP in 12/13. It's no surprise that we're poor without our best player in 17/18.

The comparison with Spurs and Kane doesn't work.

Firstly we've spent double(that's a guess) what Spurs have. So of course they rely heavily on their first XI. It's understandable. With ourselves you can't spend the money we have and put a complete absence of attacking football down to one missing midfielder.

Secondly you'll always miss your star striker more than you will a midfielder. Squad players can or should come into midfield and do a job in Pogba's absence but there's just no way of replacing what Kane or a prime RvP gives you.

When you're discussing squads and coping with injury any comparison has to be with a club of equal standing like City, Madrid, PSG. These are the guys we go toe to toe with in the transfer market.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

The comparison with Spurs and Kane doesn't work.

Firstly we've spent double(that's a guess) what Spurs have. So of course they rely heavily on their first XI. It's understandable. With ourselves you can't spend the money we have and put a complete absence of attacking football down to one missing midfielder.

Secondly you'll always miss your star striker more than you will a midfielder. Squad players can or should come into midfield and do a job in Pogba's absence but there's just no way of replacing what Kane or a prime RvP gives you.

When you're discussing squads and coping with injury any comparison has to be with a club of equal standing like City, Madrid, PSG. These are the guys we go toe to toe with in the transfer market.

They spend a fair share of money, too. £155 million over the last two years which is more than enough to build a squad around the fantastic talent they already have. Why does the position even matter? Pogba is our best player and is a huge part of the foundations that keep this team functioning. Take him out and you're left with three parts of a machine and no glue that keeps it together.

As for the last line, it shouldn't matter if we spent a billion pounds this summer, we haven't been in the elite bracket for nearly 10 years. Spending money doesn't equal success, not when your team has spent the best parts of the post-Fergie era trying to beat Southampton to 5th or 6th position. It's like context doesn't matter for some.

 

[Dobbs]

They spend a fair share of money, too. £155 million over the last two years which is more than enough to build a squad around the fantastic talent they already have. Why does the position even matter? Pogba is our best player and is a huge part of the foundations that keep this team functioning. Take him out and you're left with three parts of a machine and no glue that keeps it together.

As for the last line, it shouldn't matter if we spent a billion pounds this summer, we haven't been in the elite bracket for nearly 10 years. Spending money doesn't equal success, not when your team has spent the best parts of the post-Fergie era trying to beat Southampton to 5th or 6th position. It's like context doesn't matter for some.

Not always but most of the time it does.

Spurs net spend was 16th in the summer. We were 2nd. You simply can't use their squad and dependence on one player to justify ours.

Position does matter. Like it or not strikers are the biggest difference makers. It's why they cost so much. You'll always miss your star striker more than you will your star midfielder.

I think it's yourself who has forgotten context. For the last five years we've been spending on par with the biggest clubs in the world. That's been the case under Mourinho. But you and others are using a Spurs comparison to justify a complete reliance on one player. Why not compare the importance of one player with the other giant clubs?

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Not always but most of the time it does.

Spurs net spend was 16th in the summer. We were 2nd. You simply can't use their squad and dependence on one player to justify ours.

Position does matter. Like it or not strikers are the biggest difference makers. It's why they cost so much. You'll always miss your star striker more than you will your star midfielder.

I think it's yourself who has forgotten context. For the last five years we've been spending on par with the biggest clubs in the world. That's been the case under Mourinho. But you and others are using a Spurs comparison to justify a complete reliance on one player. Why not compare the importance of one player with the other giant clubs?

Spending is just one factor. Why not have a look at who we bought, how much for and where they are now?

13/14:

Fellaini (27m): Good signing
Mata (36m): Good signing

14/15:

Shaw (30m): Rubbish - will be sold soon
Herrera (28m): Very good signing
di Maria (60m): Sold not even 12 months later
Rojo (16m): Good signing
Blind (14m): Very good signing

15/16:

Depay (28m): Sold
Schneiderlin (25m): Sold
Schweinsteiger (6m): Sold
Darmian (13m): Good signing
Romero (free): Very good signing
Martial (36m): Very good signing

16/17:

Mkhi (27m): Good signing
Bailly (30m): Very good signing
Ibra (free): Very good signing
Pogba (89m): Our best player

17/18:

Lukaku (75m): Very good signing
Matic (40m): Very good signing
Lindelof (30m): Not sure

Context is the fact that we've signed 22 players (including Falcao loan) which is two starting XIs and have kept 14; with only 7 of them being consistent starters over the last season and a half.
Numbers are based on memory (so feel free to correct me) but we've spent nearly £600 million since Fergie retired and have received around £90 million for those sold (from the above). We've continuously changed our backbone (consistent starters) over the last 4 years:

13/14: Rio, Evans, Smalling, Vidic, Carrick, Cleverley, Valencia, Welbeck, Rooney
14/15: Smalling, Blind, Carrick, Valencia, Mata, Rooney
15/16: Smalling, Jones, Valencia, Carrick, Blind, Herrera, Mata, Rooney, Martial
16/17: Bailly, Jones, Rojo, Valencia, Blind, Herrera, Pogba, Mata, Rashford, Ibra
17/18: Smalling, Valencia, Matic, Mkhi, Rashford, Lukaku

There's hardly any consistency in our starting XIs since 2013 with massive changes every year, yet you're assuming that because we've simply spent X amount we should be up there with the elite. No, it doesn't work like that and especially not for a team that went from winning the league to:

Getting smashed at home by Liverpool and City, allowing teams like Newcastle, WBA, Everton to record wins at OT for the first time in 20+ years.
A team that bought "Gaalaticos" yet never started them and marginally finished 4th.
A team that, somehow regressed again, could barely muster a shot on target against the mighty Sheffield United, relied on an 18 and 19 year old to carry them to 5th and an FA Cup win. Not forgetting that we scored 49 fecking goals in a season - worse than Moyes' United.
A team that finally stopped getting embarrassed at OT by the so called minnows of the league, won two trophies and got it self back into the CL.
Now is a team that has made OT into a fortress (36? games unbeaten at home), is dominating its CL group, will find itself in the SF of a domestic cup and sits second in the league.

That's context. Not just we spent money, we should be winning the league which is all you seem to want to consider.

 

[Dobbs]

Spending is just one factor. Why not have a look at who we bought, how much for and where they are now?

13/14:

Fellaini (27m): Good signing
Mata (36m): Good signing

14/15:

Shaw (30m): Rubbish - will be sold soon
Herrera (28m): Very good signing
di Maria (60m): Sold not even 12 months later
Rojo (16m): Good signing
Blind (14m): Very good signing

15/16:

Depay (28m): Sold
Schneiderlin (25m): Sold
Schweinsteiger (6m): Sold
Darmian (13m): Good signing
Romero (free): Very good signing
Martial (36m): Very good signing

16/17:

Mkhi (27m): Good signing
Bailly (30m): Very good signing
Ibra (free): Very good signing
Pogba (89m): Our best player

17/18:

Lukaku (75m): Very good signing
Matic (40m): Very good signing
Lindelof (30m): Not sure

Context is the fact that we've signed 22 players (including Falcao loan) which is two starting XIs and have kept 14; with only 7 of them being consistent starters over the last season and a half.
Numbers are based on memory (so feel free to correct me) but we've spent nearly £600 million since Fergie retired and have received around £90 million for those sold (from the above). We've continuously changed our backbone (consistent starters) over the last 4 years:

13/14: Rio, Evans, Smalling, Vidic, Carrick, Cleverley, Valencia, Welbeck, Rooney
14/15: Smalling, Blind, Carrick, Valencia, Mata, Rooney
15/16: Smalling, Jones, Valencia, Carrick, Blind, Herrera, Mata, Rooney, Martial
16/17: Bailly, Jones, Rojo, Valencia, Blind, Herrera, Pogba, Mata, Rashford, Ibra
17/18: Smalling, Valencia, Matic, Mkhi, Rashford, Lukaku

There's hardly any consistency in our starting XIs since 2013 with massive changes every year, yet you're assuming that because we've simply spent X amount we should be up there with the elite. No, it doesn't work like that and especially not for a team that went from winning the league to:

Getting smashed at home by Liverpool and City, allowing teams like Newcastle, WBA, Everton to record wins at OT for the first time in 20+ years.
A team that bought "Gaalaticos" yet never started them and marginally finished 4th.
A team that, somehow regressed again, could barely muster a shot on target against the mighty Sheffield United, relied on an 18 and 19 year old to carry them to 5th and an FA Cup win. Not forgetting that we scored 49 fecking goals in a season - worse than Moyes' United.
A team that finally stopped getting embarrassed at OT by the so called minnows of the league, won two trophies and got it self back into the CL.
Now is a team that has made OT into a fortress (36? games unbeaten at home), is dominating its CL group, will find itself in the SF of a domestic cup and sits second in the league.

That's context. Not just we spent money, we should be winning the league which is all you seem to want to consider.

I've not mentioned or even hinted at that during this exchange. This is happening a lot on the Caf.

Quote my posts where I did. If you can't maybe reconsider that point.

Spending wisely or not isn't the question here. You're not simply stating that we have a similar quality XI to Spurs. You're actually using it as a justification for completely relying on one player. The whole point here is that United have the funds and draw to not be in that situation. It's avoidable. Which you can't say for a club like Spurs with its much reduced transfer and wage capability.

 

[Fortitude]

Different handshake with every single player

Pogba's mental database of handshakes is enormous. He's got a different routine with every player there. Then all the different ones he does with the United boys. He's got at least 10 he does with Lingard alone. Impressive.

was about to say these things! This guy has a gazillion personalised handshakes.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I've not mentioned or even hinted at that during this exchange. This is happening a lot on the Caf.

Quote my posts where I did. If you can't maybe reconsider that point.

Spending wisely or not isn't the question here. You're not simply stating that we have a similar quality XI to Spurs. You're actually using it as a justification for completely relying on one player. The whole point here is that United have the funds and draw to not be in that situation. It's avoidable. Which you can't say for a club like Spurs with its much reduced transfer and wage capability.

Fair point, I can retract that statement.

Again, you're still wanting to ignore context. How can you not consider who you spent the money on? I'm not saying we have a similar quality XI to Spurs, I'm saying we spent a shit tonne of money on just about anyone we've seen play football since 2013. There's been no plan. We've bought for the sake of buying, at times. And when you do that, you end up dropping a level or two. Which is precisely what we've done. We might spend like the elite level teams, but that's not because we're at their level, it's because we're trying to get back there. I hate to say it, but we're at the level of Spurs. Fair enough, we've spent more than them but we're NOT better than them. And having those levels of funds means nothing if it's wasted.

You've simply used our transfer spending to judge our position in football without really considering anything else.

I should also like to add the fact that our spending directly results in a distinct lack of quality in a few positions, as well as strength in depth, (wingers, FBs, attacking mids) which in turn results in our dependence on a really good central midfielder.

 

[SATA]

Like a new signing

So glad he's ours, and Martial!

 

[Sandikan]

No, autistic.

Suggest you get on dictionary.com and understand what the word means.

 

[Sandikan]

If you meant to say autistic, then you don't know what autistic means.

Have directed him to dictionary.com to understand what it means

 

[United_We_Stand]

Tweet

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[Pexbo]

Suggest you get on dictionary.com and understand what the word means.

There’s an autistic quality to Zidane’s ability. You disagree?

 

[Cee90]

The 'café's fantasy football champion circa 12/13! Have some respect!

Exactly, thank you.

 

[Shark]

Tweet

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Oh come on, I thought he was going to be back for that.

 

[Harry190]

What makes you think Zidane is on the spectrum? Enlighten us.

His general demeanor in situations where he is not surrounded by people or situations he is familiar with.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Spending is just one factor. Why not have a look at who we bought, how much for and where they are now?

13/14:

Fellaini (27m): Good signing - Average
Mata (36m): Good signing - Average

14/15:

Shaw (30m): Rubbish - will be sold soon - Agree
Herrera (28m): Very good signing - Decent
di Maria (60m): Sold not even 12 months later - No words
Rojo (16m): Good signing - Agree
Blind (14m): Very good signing- Good considering price

15/16:

Depay (28m): Sold- Flop
Schneiderlin (25m): Sold- Flop
Schweinsteiger (6m): Sold- Flop
Darmian (13m): Good signing -Really? He has been poor, valuation has to take a backseat here
Romero (free): Very good signing-Agree
Martial (36m): Very good signing- Jury still out but should be good

16/17:

Mkhi (27m): Good signing- No, he has been poor
Bailly (30m): Very good signing- Been good
Ibra (free): Very good signing
Pogba (89m): Our best player- Has still a lot to do before we can say he has been a good buy

17/18:

Lukaku (75m): Very good signing- Looks like he will be a big hit
Matic (40m): Very good signing- Agree
Lindelof (30m): Not sure - Big improvement needed but deserves time.

 

[shaggy]

Spending is just one factor. Why not have a look at who we bought, how much for and where they are now?

13/14:

Fellaini (27m): Good signing
Mata (36m): Good signing

14/15:

Shaw (30m): Rubbish - will be sold soon
Herrera (28m): Very good signing
di Maria (60m): Sold not even 12 months later
Rojo (16m): Good signing
Blind (14m): Very good signing

15/16:

Depay (28m): Sold
Schneiderlin (25m): Sold
Schweinsteiger (6m): Sold
Darmian (13m): Good signing
Romero (free): Very good signing
Martial (36m): Very good signing

16/17:

Mkhi (27m): Good signing
Bailly (30m): Very good signing
Ibra (free): Very good signing
Pogba (89m): Our best player

17/18:

Lukaku (75m): Very good signing
Matic (40m): Very good signing
Lindelof (30m): Not sure

About half of these 'good / very good signings' certainly aren't. Darmian, fellaini, Mkhi and unfortunately Mata to a lesser extent is over £100 million spent with little return. Then you've got outright turds like Shaw, Depay, Di Maria and Schneiderlin for another £150 million.

Even our 'hits' haven't cemented themselves as such yet. I'm happy with how Lukaku and matic have done so far but ultimately we don't really look any better than last year.

 

[whatwha]

His general demeanor in situations where he is not surrounded by people or situations he is familiar with.

Got any videos where you can point this out?

 

[Vinnie Peetang]

Imagine Pogba with Matic protecting him, playing with freedom.
Imagine upfront, he has Rashford's speed to feed, Lukaku's power and Zlatan's brilliance.
I am super super excited at his return.

 

[Martial]

His general demeanor in situations where he is not surrounded by people or situations he is familiar with.

People can be shy and quiet around new people without being autistic.

Regardless, you are talking about someone who is a bloody football manager which is probably the most social job he could possibly have taken after his playing career.

Your whole point is one of the most stupid things I've ever heard.

 

[Lawman]

Spending is just one factor. Why not have a look at who we bought, how much for and where they are now?

13/14:

Fellaini (27m): Good signing
Mata (36m): Good signing

14/15:

Shaw (30m): Rubbish - will be sold soon
Herrera (28m): Very good signing
di Maria (60m): Sold not even 12 months later
Rojo (16m): Good signing
Blind (14m): Very good signing

15/16:

Depay (28m): Sold
Schneiderlin (25m): Sold
Schweinsteiger (6m): Sold
Darmian (13m): Good signing
Romero (free): Very good signing
Martial (36m): Very good signing

16/17:

Mkhi (27m): Good signing
Bailly (30m): Very good signing
Ibra (free): Very good signing
Pogba (89m): Our best player

17/18:

Lukaku (75m): Very good signing
Matic (40m): Very good signing
Lindelof (30m): Not

There's hardly any consistency in our starting XIs since 2013 with massive changes every year, yet you're assuming that because we've simply spent X amount we should be up there with the elite. No, it doesn't work like that.

Think you give a very good account, I think the problem is simply the players bought were not good enough in the whole and the starting 11 left over from SAF was needing much work due to regulars in the 11 ageing (Rio Evra Vidic Carrick Giggs Scholes Rooney RVP) and being past their bests. I get they didn’t all leave in one season but it’s a lot of experience to lose out a starting 11 over a couple of seasons.
We also spent a lot of money replacing players with players you could argue were/are no better (Darmain Blind Mata Fellaini Rojo Herrera Shaw Depay) than the likes of our already squad players like Nani Evans Hernandez Rafa Fletcher instead of being the same standard as the likes of a Rio Evra Vidic Carrick Giggs Scholes Rooney or RVP.
If we had kept our squad players and put them in the starting 11 we would have had a similar outcome in league position imo.
Put quite simply our signings have not been good enough since SAF retiring. I feel Jose has bucked this trend in the main with Bailley Pogba Matic Lukaku and Zlatan.

 

[DRM]

Oh come on, I thought he was going to be back for that.

It's really frustrating isn't it. Some news about his return from the club would help.

 

[Trizy]

How can he not be back at this stage? Baffling injury.

 

[Santos J]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Thought he'd be back for this one.

 

[el3mel]

Tweet

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Will he ever play for us again ?!

 

[BluesJr]

Geniunely one of the most infuriating/frustrating injuries ever. Killed our momentum and stopped us watching the best player in our team in the biggest games so far. Has anyone ever been out this long with that injury? Seems bizarrely long if it didn’t need surgery.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Looks like not even a sub appearance this weekend. Here comes the 1-0 scraped victory I predicted either way, guaranteed. If we're lucky. 0-0 wouldnt surprise me.

 

[el3mel]

Was this even a Hamstring injury ? We're approaching 2 and half months with him not even training with his teammates FFS ! Hamstring injury that required no surgery can't last that long. If it was severe he would have made a surgery, but he didn't so what? It doesn't make any fecking sense. With this we should expect him by start of December or what ? He still didn't get to first team training, only with the reserves.

The nature of this injury is baffling. That doesn't look like a normal hamstring injury for me.

 

[red4ever 79]

Do these guys play in the U23 at all when coming back from long term injuries? I remember we used to do that, but nowadays it seems they come straight back into the first team squad.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

About half of these 'good / very good signings' certainly aren't. Darmian, fellaini, Mkhi and unfortunately Mata to a lesser extent is over £100 million spent with little return. Then you've got outright turds like Shaw, Depay, Di Maria and Schneiderlin for another £150 million.

Even our 'hits' haven't cemented themselves as such yet. I'm happy with how Lukaku and matic have done so far but ultimately we don't really look any better than last year.

Dont agree with the last part. We look far better now than we did at the same time last season.

I didnt want to have too many categories so I kept it simple with bad, good and very good. You could add in betweens and say Mkhi is somewhat good and Mata is more good than bad. But I dont think anything I have stated is farfetched.

 

[VanGaalEra]

FFS second game this season I'll be going to and he's not playing. Was hoping he'd be able to make it for this one.

 

[Player Red]

Do these guys play in the U23 at all when coming back from long term injuries? I remember we used to do that, but nowadays it seems they come straight back into the first team squad.

That was LVG policy I think. Had to play a game before joining first team.

 

[Trizy]

Do these guys play in the U23 at all when coming back from long term injuries? I remember we used to do that, but nowadays it seems they come straight back into the first team squad.

Usually if there is a U23/Reserve game behind closed doors it means someone is back playing after injury. Not sure I've heard anything this time.

 

[Trizy]

FFS second game this season I'll be going to and he's not playing. Was hoping he'd be able to make it for this one.

I only got over once last year, both Zlatan and Pogba were suspended/injured .

 

[Morpheus 7]

FFS second game this season I'll be going to and he's not playing. Was hoping he'd be able to make it for this one.

Don't give up hope man just yet, papers no nothing. Need to wait for press conference on Friday. I'm heading to the Brighton game the week after, it's only my first game this season. I can understand why you would be disappointed, not confirmed yet. Remember he's been training with the under 23's and back at Carrington days before the spurs game. There is a chance and more importantly we need him to kick start us.

 

[doomy20]

Imagine Pogba with Matic protecting him, playing with freedom.
Imagine upfront, he has Rashford's speed to feed, Lukaku's power and Zlatan's brilliance.
I am super super excited at his return.

If Mourinho injects them negativity and the 0-0 spirit, they won´t play any different than at Liverpool or at Chelsea.

 

[VanGaalEra]

Don't give up hope man just yet, papers no nothing. Need to wait for press conference on Friday. I'm heading to the Brighton game the week after, it's only my first game this season. I can understand why you would be disappointed, not confirmed yet. Remember he's been training with the under 23's and back at Carrington days before the spurs game. There is a chance and more importantly we need him to kick start us.

I was deciding between the Newcastle and Brighton games, thought the Newcastle game might be a bit better and I'd get to abuse the FSW.

I only got over once last year, both Zlatan and Pogba were suspended/injured .

Absolute balls when the best players are out.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Tweet

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Pogba or no Pogba, we need to be thrashing Newcastle.

 

[Harry190]

People can be shy and quiet around new people without being autistic.

Regardless, you are talking about someone who is a bloody football manager which is probably the most social job he could possibly have taken after his playing career.

Your whole point is one of the most stupid things I've ever heard.

If you say so.