Scholes' outlook on him was spot on. Pogba can be a phenomenal player but he simply isn't the guy to control games. He is a machine/an engine you place that drives a ticking team out of control.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 16
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Red cards
- 1
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Then you did not follow Zidane or are overrating Pogba simple as that.
World class second half from him yesterday, provided two assists and almost scored twice himself. Was combining well with Lingard and Shaw on the left, not to disrespect them but better quality of players will bring the best out of him and those players too (a bit harsh on Lingard i know, he's been brilliant off late)
We must stick to this formation and as someone rightly mentioned a couple of pages back, our recruitment should ensure he keeps playing in that position every game.
We must stick to this formation and as someone rightly mentioned a couple of pages back, our recruitment should ensure he keeps playing in that position every game.
i am following him, pogba is stronger , defend better and better passer than zidane, he has all the attribute to be ballon d'or winner
although it's more difficult to get the ball from zidane feet compared,
people also overrating zidane because he had medals, youtube compilation and play with galactico
i mean it must be fun playing with the likes of ronaldo , figo, guti , beckham , raul compared to what pogba have right now
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What I really liked about Pogba's game today was his attitude in 2nd half. There was a time before our 2nd goal where we sat back and invited unnecessary pressure and he was defending with huge passion, its like he wanted to grab the team and lift it out of the slumber.
And then, the way he stood up against Everton players when they tackled Lingard in a dangerous fashion. About time, somebody in our midfield stood up and brought out some aggression. We have been sorely missing it, I still can't believe our players didn't make more fuss about the penalty against Southampton that was not given. If it was Fergie's team, our players would have surrounded the referee and showed some passion. Not saying such act is right/wrong, but we need some of that aggression back
And then, the way he stood up against Everton players when they tackled Lingard in a dangerous fashion. About time, somebody in our midfield stood up and brought out some aggression. We have been sorely missing it, I still can't believe our players didn't make more fuss about the penalty against Southampton that was not given. If it was Fergie's team, our players would have surrounded the referee and showed some passion. Not saying such act is right/wrong, but we need some of that aggression back
Must. Play. In. A. Midfield. Three. In. The. Free. Role.
Superb today. Midfield three made all the difference, getting the flank players away from collapsing in on top of him worked a treat and having Herrera do the watercarrier work allowed him to push on and exploit the space in the final third. He will definitely grow into this role as the years go by and I think he'll thrive.
Superb today. Midfield three made all the difference, getting the flank players away from collapsing in on top of him worked a treat and having Herrera do the watercarrier work allowed him to push on and exploit the space in the final third. He will definitely grow into this role as the years go by and I think he'll thrive.
Get him up the pitch on his terms and he’s world class. We saw that tonight.
The issue is we dont have a passer so thats why Pogba is used to control games. If we had a third midfielder who can pass, Pogba would be free to do damage.
Shame on Herrera not being that guy.
If Pogba's is that good week in week out on the left side of a 3, imagine we had someone like Vidal in his prime on the right side of the 3? 
Martial-ST-RW
Pogba-Matic-Vidal
Martial-ST-RW
Pogba-Matic-Vidal
Yeah but January is a difficult period to do transfers, especially if you're going for first team players. If we don't get any additions this month I'm sure he'll get the money needed in the summer. Saying all that, yeah, we could do with a player or two this month.
Candidate for a post of the year already.
Pogba is 24. At 24 Zidane was at Bordeaux getting passed over by Newcastle United. If Pogba ends up being half as good as Zidane we will all be delighted but i think Pogba is better now than Zidane was at that age.
Phenomenal stat.
I remember plenty of those draws too, especially last season, when he was laying countless chances on a plate for his teammates, or smashing the woodwork.
Unquestionably our most important player.
I'm not necessarily comparing Pogba to Zidane, despite his majestic performance yesterday where he actually showed flashes of how good he can be when used right. Just going on with the on-going discussion and providing some perspective.
Pogba (between the age of 19 and 23) scored more goals for Juve than Zidane (between the age of 24 to 29) did. With less appearances too, and both in Serie A and Europe.
It might be argued that despite those stats, Zizou was the more influential contributor overall. However, Zizou's goal scoring stats heavily imply that he was not the player people mostly remember him as on a consistent basis. He is often mentioned in the conversation of the greatest players ever, but that argument feels a bit thin if we focus exclusively on club football.
Consistency and longevity are not the primary things people remember after years. Turning it up at the big games and right moments is what turns great footballers in to legends. To add, Zidane was, along with Ronaldinho, the most elegant footballer of his generation.
Pogba might not currently belong to the same sentence with those two, but he has such an insane amount of ability and elegance that purely as a football watcher one should hope his teams get the best out of him more regularly.
Pogba (between the age of 19 and 23) scored more goals for Juve than Zidane (between the age of 24 to 29) did. With less appearances too, and both in Serie A and Europe.
It might be argued that despite those stats, Zizou was the more influential contributor overall. However, Zizou's goal scoring stats heavily imply that he was not the player people mostly remember him as on a consistent basis. He is often mentioned in the conversation of the greatest players ever, but that argument feels a bit thin if we focus exclusively on club football.
Consistency and longevity are not the primary things people remember after years. Turning it up at the big games and right moments is what turns great footballers in to legends. To add, Zidane was, along with Ronaldinho, the most elegant footballer of his generation.
Pogba might not currently belong to the same sentence with those two, but he has such an insane amount of ability and elegance that purely as a football watcher one should hope his teams get the best out of him more regularly.
I think Jose would've played the midfield three a lot earlier in the season if Herrera hadn't been so bad and if Pogba hadn't got injured in that CL game. Going forward I would love to see us go out and buy a player like Savic in the summer and play a midfield three with Pogba on the left of it.
It has everything to do with the manager. It's literally manager's job to motivate the players. To develop them.
I really do feel, that if Pogba would have been with a better manager, not the ones that just grind the results, but with the one that actually builds a playing side, helps his players become better footballers etc, i think he would already be up there with Kevin De Bruyne.
These two years, well 1,5 he had at United added absolutely nothing to his game.
And you recon that had nothing to do with the manager as well?
He was top class yesterday, needs to show more of that now.
This whole 'controlling' the midfield by a single player is a myth to be honest. One person cannot control anything, it has to be the be a team effort. Or else you can just have one big player in a team and then thats it don't worry about anything else!
The Galacticos, the tiki-taka masters all had group of great players, it would not be fair to say Messi controlled the right hand side of the pitch in that treble winning team
Can a player consistently impact a game - absolutely, but can he do all by himself- no? , but control seems to be a strong word.
The Galacticos, the tiki-taka masters all had group of great players, it would not be fair to say Messi controlled the right hand side of the pitch in that treble winning team
Can a player consistently impact a game - absolutely, but can he do all by himself- no? , but control seems to be a strong word.
No, but you missed my point.
What separates great player from ordinary ones? Just two things actually. The great ones do deliver in key moments. For attacking players that means participation in combination that lead to goals. And the second thing is while they have bad moments and mistakes in any game, they never have them in long patches. The same can apply to the one exact game and the whole season. For example, any great player have an off-game, but did Zidane (or anybody) had a run of 4-5 bad games? No. Also great players usually don't drift out of games for 30-45 min patches. They can do so a couple times a season, but not much more. So basically saying, they are consistent.
Pogba does have the first one, he has a talent to decide the episodes, to get the team goals, but he really lacks in the second area. Especially since his transfer here. Scholes was absolutely right. Has he progressed even a little bit, since his transfer? No. He actually plays worse that he played for Juve, he is even less consistent now.
There is also little sense to compare him with Zidane. Why would you do it? We do have quite a lot comparison material right here and now. For example De Bryune. Think two years back, Pogba at Juve, De Bruyne at Wolfsburg. They both were high prospects, Pogba probably was even bigger one, since he was italian champion and performed in CL. But now? Belgian really raised his game and probably is one of the best attacking midfielders today. Pogba on the other hand is still not exactly settled at OT.
That is what i meant.
He really should be useed further up like he played. As part of a midfield 3 but given the free role to drift and make things happen. Scholes I don't think wsas criticizing him So much as just saying he should be used like he was used yesterday. We've spent a lot of time trying to make him into someone to dictate the tempo of games from a deeper position... it's not really him. He can do it, just it becomes inconsistent and doesn't make the most of his talents. Put him as that free role attacking player, get a Modric type next to him in front of Matic, and it'd be a perfect midfield 3.
Funny thing he is up there with KDB already, statistics wise.
1.5 years at United hasn't added nothing to his game? Exaggerating a bit?
Anyway why not compare him to the likes of Zidane?
Do you remember if Zidane had 4, 5 bad games in a row in Pogba's age?
And it's not that Pogba had those either.
As for the bolded part, it's not that he was crap playing deep, he can do it and do it good, but playing more forward suits him better.
Spot on, imo. Controlling the midfield is immensely dependent on the teammates' movements to create effective passing options, one-twos, etc. If that doesn't work well, a playmaker can only dodge the oncoming pressing, hold up the ball for too long, make isolated runs & risky passes, or pass the ball around ineffectively. You've got to have the necessary abilities in the first place, but it's also a position the team has to actively put you into.
Some absolute rubbish is being spoken in this thread, Pogba is already up there with de Bruyne. His overall impact on our season when he plays is for all to see, couple of below par games since returning from suspension has clouded memories of lots of folks on here.
Also, this myth about where is Pogba of Juventus needs to stop already. He was one great midfielder amongst 3 in that team, one being Pirlo (one of the finest playmaker the world has ever seen) and other being one of the best box to box midfielders of current decade in Vidal. They had a system in place, set of players who had been there for a while with their roles perfectly defined and hence Pogba flourished.
He has had to step up to being the main man at United, which was not the case at Juve. How can one not notice this? His defensive game has also improved a lot since he came here, our entire play through the middle goes through him. He's essentially trying to play the role of a playmaker as well as that of an attacking midfielder. To his credit, this season he has been doing that very well. Numbers and performances suggest we're seeing the very best of Pogba. This mythical version of Pogba of Juventus doesn't exist and is a mere fiction in minds of many posters like Brwned suggested.
Also, this myth about where is Pogba of Juventus needs to stop already. He was one great midfielder amongst 3 in that team, one being Pirlo (one of the finest playmaker the world has ever seen) and other being one of the best box to box midfielders of current decade in Vidal. They had a system in place, set of players who had been there for a while with their roles perfectly defined and hence Pogba flourished.
He has had to step up to being the main man at United, which was not the case at Juve. How can one not notice this? His defensive game has also improved a lot since he came here, our entire play through the middle goes through him. He's essentially trying to play the role of a playmaker as well as that of an attacking midfielder. To his credit, this season he has been doing that very well. Numbers and performances suggest we're seeing the very best of Pogba. This mythical version of Pogba of Juventus doesn't exist and is a mere fiction in minds of many posters like Brwned suggested.
We need to buy a player to do a lot of the defensive work and playmaking alongside Matic and free him up in a 3
He has a long way to go to reach the level or consistency of De Bruyne et al. He played very well in the second half last night against an abjectly awful Everton team which was a big improvement on his last 3-4 games.
You're heavily overrating KDB. How often do you actually watch him?
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I won't bore you with stats but Pogba has put up better numbers than de Bruyne this season, be it assist per min ratio or passing accuracy or defensive contribution. Pogba has been very consistent for us this season, 2 blanks vs Southampton and Burnley don't negate that. de Bruyne has scored more goals this season in a very rampant City side therefore you're overrating his impact a lot more. I think David Silva has been every bit as good and crucial as de Bruyne this season but that's for another thread.
If you said de Bruyne has been more consistent or played at a better level, I could agree with you but to say he is a 'long way off'. Your post is a perfect example of grass being greener on the other side.
FWIW if de Bruyne had put in a performance like Pogba against an 'abjectly awful side' you wouldn't be pointing out quality or performance of the opposition.
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I'd like to see an update for this with 2017/18 stats.
Obviously, he got more goals/assists when at Juve (but not by a big amount, when you look at "per 90" stats) but his 2016/17 assists stats at United will have been generally harmed by all the golden chances he created that were missed with sloppy finishing (usually from Ibra)
Ask and ye shall receive.
I'd like to see an update for this with 2017/18 stats.
Obviously, he got more goals/assists when at Juve (but not by a big amount, when you look at "per 90" stats) but his 2016/17 assists stats at United will have been generally harmed by all the golden chances he created that were missed with sloppy finishing (usually from Ibra)
Goals/90 in 2015/16 = 0.23
Assists/90 in 2015/16 = 0.36
So basically, he's a better player now than he was at Juve, according to pretty much every relevant stat. But let's all trot out the tired myth about him being half the player he was in Serie A...
This harks back to what @Brwned said earlier on. When your only exposure to a player is a few select matches and multiple highlight reels you end up with a vastly inflated sense of how well they're playing - over the course of a season - compared to watching every minute of every game.
Pogba on left and Savic on right
Matic sit back.
Lukaku/Rashford up front
Martial/Lingard cut from left
Dybala/Mata cut from right
Matic sit back.
Lukaku/Rashford up front
Martial/Lingard cut from left
Dybala/Mata cut from right
Got to love stats....before last nights games Pogba and Miki had the same number of assists this season. The stats suggest that Miki must be having a great season.
Pogba got two assists last night, I suggest that Martial and especially Lingard still had plenty left to do.
Well De Bruyne put in a fantastic performance against us not that long ago, the like of which I haven't seen Pogba do against a top team when it really matters.
To be fair to him he has missed most of our important games this year so far so hopefully we will see him demonstrate his ability against our rivals before the season is out.
He is easily our best outfield player for sure and he has great talent, here's hoping he can produce the performance of the second half more regularly in the rest of the season.
Stats for current 2017/18 season.
Appearances = 12
Mins played = 1072
Total Passes = 813
Passes per match = 70.22
Passing accuracy = 84%
Chances created per match = 1.99
Goals = 0.26
Assists = 0.60
Interceptions per match = 1.12
Clearances per match = 1.42
Aerial Duel per match = 2.25
His numbers are better overall this year too.
That's why you look deeper into numbers, like number of touches, number of passes, number of chances created etc. to get a better perspective of a players performance. Like me and Pogue have posted, numbers are there for you to see.
You also seem to always point out that others had a role in Pogba's performance. 'Abjectly awful Everton side' 'Martial and Lingard still had plenty left to do'. Why not take the same route when discussing every opposition player then? Why don't you dissect oppositions performance when de Bruyne has a good game or analyze how much work Sterling, Aguero or Jesus had to do to finish chances provided by de Bruyne?
Pogba did perform vs a top team last time he was available to play in, he provided two assists. 2nd being most crucial as it proved to be a sucker punch for a rampant Arsenal side. You're only seeing what you want to see.
You're comparing the assist stats of a #10 to someone who generally plays CM and you don't see the issue with that?
Pogba played very well in our home win against Chelsea last season and Arsenal this year, as you say he hasn't played much in big games this season, so how can you criticize him for it?
I think comparing Pogba to Zidane is not that big of a stretch, even if I find Zidane superior in passing and controlling a game. Pogba is capable of anything Zidane did and more, but the big difference is that Zidane rised to the big games while Pogba tends to shrink in the biggest moments. That's something that will always put him below Zidane until he changes it (oh, and also wins everything there is to win at football).
Plenty of time for all of that.
When Zidane was Pogba's age he was about to start his first season for Juve and not yet a regular starter in the French national team.
My point is that Miki has stats similar to many other number 10s this year and it only goes to show how statistics can lie,
The lack of performance in big games is not a criticism but a caveat. I look forward to being proved completely wrong in time.
Arsenal this season ?
didn't Arsenal dominate midfield in that game though and he got sent off. Great win and I'm not knocking it, but possession in that game was something like 80 to 20%
Let's ignore that he assisted 2 of our 3 goals. Let's ignore that the third goal was 100% down to his brilliance in getting rid of Koscielny.
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