I agree, a year ago seemed almost impossible to keep Pogba, but the current covid market helped us. Surely there arent any takers for him with his price and wages, I just hoped we dont be stupid and wait until January when Pogba will have all the leverage. The time is now.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 22
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
Jesus. This thread is a nightmare. Every question I ask gets answered with more questions!
Can I assume by you lack of an answer to my question that Paul Pogba has never been a prolific goalscorer? Because you gave the impression he was by alluding to a time when he scored regularly and people weren’t happy. I don’t think that ever happened. Take away the penalties and he was never prolific.
Also, to be absolutely clear, I don’t expect central midfielders to score a load of goals. Take away the penalties and Bruno hasn’t been the most prolific either. What he has been doing, though, is consistently posing a threat. Forcing saves, hitting the woodwork, whatever. And that’s in addition to his primary role, which is creating chances for other players.
The broader point here (which makes Kroos and Modric irrelevant) is that people make excuses for Pogba giving the ball away a lot by saying he’s not that type of player. We shouldn’t expect him to complete 90% of his passes every game because that’s not we want from him. That’s not his job. I’m just wondering what his job really is.
We’ve established it’s not goals. The assists dried up a while back. Fernandes is way more productive in terms of goal threat, creating big chances and assists than Pogba ever was, in any role in our team. Pogba’s passing is inconsistent, he regularly loses the ball in dangerous areas by making poor decisions. He frequently slows play down with too many touches. So what is the upside that makes these flaws a price worth paying?
What, exactly, does this supposedly world class CM bring to our team? Wins a lot of headers outside our box?!
So... did he have a good game or not?
Why are we even having this discussion? The random criticism always confuses me.
Why are we even having this discussion? The random criticism always confuses me.
Each of the flaws you have listed is a clue to what he does well.
1. He has relatively low passing completion (compared to the elite players in his position) because he plays difficult passes that start attacks, switch the play to relieve pressure, etc. Some other midfielders are currently better than him at it. That's fine. Also, he is probably the most likely of elite CMs to play difficult passes with his weaker foot.
2. He loses possession in high-risk areas because he is adept at beating the press through dribbling, and Utd are frequently pressed, so he attempts it a lot and comes off most often. Unfortunately, there is a weakness in the backline when it comes to ball playing so frequently he is the only player capable of doing so.
3. When he slows down the play it is called controlling the game, calming things down to wait for the right moment.
I'm far from a Pogba fan, and part of the issue is the constant hype/expectation that he's world class (he isn't). But he is a very good midfielder and he provides loads of ball progression (either through dribbling or passing through the lines), and a lot of creativity to get the ball to our attackers. I was also really happy with his defensive performance vs Sevilla and he has for sure been at least decent in that department the past couple of months.
Hes someone that should be good for ~ 10 goals and 10 assists in all competitions per season from center mid, which is fine, but his all round play (primarily on the ball) is his benefit. Of course, he's massively overrated and I don't think he's ever really filled his potential, but he's still a very good midfielder and we're a better team with him in the side. Just needs to stay fit.
He is world class. One of the best midfielders around. Problem is that people don't notice his "only" good games. If he doesn't boss the game...he is shit.
10 goals and 10 assists would be a great return. I’d be very happy with that from him. And I agree with the other good stuff he does. Plus I have also noticed his improved defensive contribution, post-lockdown. In fact, I’ve generally been happy with his recent contribution overall.
I’d have to say, his overall time at United so far has been a huge disappointment. I think we all expected him to be a much better player by now than the player he is. And it’s hard to get past that when analysing his contributions and what he does for the team.
He is.
No it is bust for Fernandes if Ole does not play him in a flat midfield three so our play can improve.
Ole has already said in any team Paul plays he will not be dropped.
He is one of the best footballers and that is not even a discussion. In terms of talent he is the best midfielder currently playing even though they are others who have better performances in better teams. Paul would be better off in one of those teams but such is life, he chose to come here regardless and still gets unneccessary stick from the same ungreatful fans.
This poster again, listen De Gea was worse in that game and was more culpable for us not getting into the CL over the last set of games.
It is funny people who defend Paul against some criticism, not all, are brandished as this or that and yet this poster in particular goes out of this way to always compare Paul to a lesser player in order to build up the lesser player. Listen Fernandes will never be on Paul's level it is that simple, for all his running and closing down he simply does not half the ability that Paul has. He is nevertheless an upgrade on Lingard and co so it is great that he was signed. It is time you accept where their abilites rest and support both players who play for us. Lastly I am sure Paul loses sleep over how he is remembered by media or even by the fans I believe he has already said that he does not care.
His job currently as the deepest midfielder is to take the ball from defence and get it into the forwards - simple.
he is doing that very well hence why were making lots of chances.
he is doing plenty of defensive work also, but has played a more controlled role in the last few matches as obviously you can’t go so gung-ho in important matches.
I’m just not sure what people expect or even realise what a good midfield performance is? Most people that question pogba come in with questions like “not scoring goals” or not playing up to 90m” whatever that means. Playing as the deeper midfielder he won’t score as often but will get a few from long range through the season.
statistically he has been good in pretty much every game and was great against Sevilla.
You being French definitely doesn't make you blinkered one bit though right?
Pogba hasn't been a success at this club. Many people across our fan base, our former players and pundits agree with me.
Does that mean he's not talented? No. But he doesn't show it enough.
You make it sound like he's one of the best players in the world. He isn't.
He is one of the best players in the world though, since you like awards he was in the PFA team of the year in 2019. The issue is with your own idea about what one of the best players in the world means.
No, I do not believe it does.
First bit of critcism that has been fair and I agree but for his current position he can only do so much. Why blame him for not scoring more goals when he is playing in front of the CBs. I cannot see him staying longterm if he has to continue in this restrictive role, he should really be on the left of a midfield three.
In terms of talent, there is no other midfielder that can do all the things that he can at the level he can, and even more rare he is one of the few midfielders who can actually beat multiple players on the dribble and that is important. We have him and we are telling him to play deep and play simple, total waste of the same fee posters like to moan about.
Jesus. This shit again. Are we posting from 2016 now? Mourinho made a mess of many things but he fecking bent over backwards to try and get a tune out of Paul Pogba. Which included a long spell on the left of a midfield three, that many had predicted would finally unleash his world class potential. Spoiler: it didn’t.
These are not examples of what he does well, they are descriptions of the sort of player he generally is. Sometimes he does them well, sometimes he doesn’t.
The question is: do we want that sort of player? And the answer is: only if he can sort his form out and find some consistency.
Probably he has been playing in his best position recently and first few games back from lockdown he was great and clearly he is capable but I think he is not quite fit and it is hard for him to keep his level up.
But I like him and think he will get better (frankly he needs to).
How many goals did he score as an LCM though?
Everyone agrees we created enough to win last game. How do you think the forwards got those chances? The ball didn't magically appear in their feet. So why is the player who was heavily involved in that is getting criticism?
I'm sure as long as we don't win a game he plays, it will always be his fault because he could theoretically have done better. He could have passed at 100% accuracy, or dribbled 5 people, or scored a screamer since he has the talent to do so.
So as long as we don't win, he'll never have done enough.
I'm sure as long as we don't win a game he plays, it will always be his fault because he could theoretically have done better. He could have passed at 100% accuracy, or dribbled 5 people, or scored a screamer since he has the talent to do so.
So as long as we don't win, he'll never have done enough.
For sure. I'd say under Ole his performances have been very good on the whole tbf. The issue has been his fitness record this season, while before Ole came it was the performances.
Can anyone remember this long spell ?
No idea. Probably not many.
I was joking
Ah. Ok. I’m shite at picking up humour/sarcasm on here. Made even worse by being grumpy about covid stuff in Ireland. Possibly a factor in me being harsh about Pogba, if I’m honest.
If I remember its when posters on here claimed we should play Paul there, then Jose revealed he was playing in that position for the last few games.
Newcastle away was that blessed day when posters flat out said Jose was wrong as if he were a fellow poster on here
Yeah it's not great is it? We'll be back to full lockdown at this rate.
Really grinds my gears the way they’ve targetted amateur sports. Created a total shit show for anyone involved in team sports. Which is one of the only things keeping a lot of us sane. Anyhoo. Not the thread for it. Bah humbug.
I remember him playing left at Everton. Other than that and the odd other game it just didn’t happen. He played as part of a midfield with either Mikhi, Mata or Jesse in the 10
He has also played in a midfield three with a combination of Fellaini, Herrera or Matic at the end of 17/18, one of these games being the win at the Etihad where he scored two goals. I don't remember if he was on the left or the right though.
You keep mentioning players without any fair comparison or context. I quoted you last time on the below and it still doesn't make sense.
All of those players could 'afford' to be technically safe and progressive with their passing because they play in teams with a clear and dominant of style/coaching. Them playing it 'safe' and simple is more than good enough because the rest of their team mates are good enough to progress the ball across the pitch effortlessly.
I absolutely understand and to an extent agree with what you're saying. He has the capability to play it more simple and be more possession orientated but it would mean feck all in our team. He would have 100% passing stats yet we would be complaining that he's too safe and doesn't affect the game enough for all his talent..in a midfield two.
Imagine Kroos or any of those players you've mentioned on their own in this game, not with their City, Madrid, Liverpool or Barca team mates. Yes they may play more wisely with the ball but I would love to see them get pressed as feck whilst trying to get Lindelof, AWB, Williams and Bruno/Rashford have more composure on the ball when we're playing a 4-2-4 formation.
We are not a possession team, the manager doesn't care for possession and the possession play (on an individual level and collectively) of our team is above average and poor for a 'top' team.
Any time Pogba has played in a team with a clear style and team mates with an adequate equal level e.g France or Juve, he has generally done well (under statement).
I will repeat:
"Imagine Pogba popping it off and trying to play one touch triangles with AWB/Williams, an out of form Rashford and Fernandes who is 15 yards away. Actually don't, we've seen plenty of it the past month."
Good post. Watching this film and just thinking what is the point of a player with his ability doing menial facilitative stuff like this. Next season we need the absolute best 6 we can get and should be telling him to get forward as much as possible when we have the ball, he hasn't been taking up positions since the restart post pandemic. Maybe coaching but if any player can sack up and break the system to show his own brilliance, surely Pogba has the licence.
the gymnastics to defend Pogba at any cost is a bit much. You'd think we have an absolute talisman in there rather than what we actually have, a merely very good player who is the cherry on top of the cake rather than the crown jewel who decides games by himself grabbing them by the scruff of the neck. I don't think people who posted his videos whenever he scored a screamer at Juve with the 
emoji were dreaming about this when they felt that he absolutely should be back at the club no matter the price. It's ironical that his time at over there with all the 'buffers' around him has contributed to him not really being a perfect fit in any midfield role without the right kind of foils around him. I feared much the same when we did sign him but hoped he would grow into it as time passed.
emoji were dreaming about this when they felt that he absolutely should be back at the club no matter the price. It's ironical that his time at over there with all the 'buffers' around him has contributed to him not really being a perfect fit in any midfield role without the right kind of foils around him. I feared much the same when we did sign him but hoped he would grow into it as time passed.All this micro analysis for how much Pogba loses the ball(for a midfielder who has 85% passing accuracy and often makes risky passes to create things), yet silence how Bruno probably loses the ball more than any top 10 AMs in the world right now. Keeping the ball is not a contest. Its risk vs reward. Yes Pogba can up his concentration which is one of his weaknesses, but he has so many strengths that make up for it.
Some fans do not deserve good things.
I'm yet to see a midfielder who decides the game by himself, unreal expectations on players and then blame players for not living up to it.
I think retaining the ball is important but you're right in that we should not be selective and context needs to be applied. How much of the time did Pogba spend playing further up the pitch ? Did we control the match of purposely set up to counter? Is it just him or are those around him also giving the ball away (see Bruno)? Plus of course Pogba is a flair CM so you have to give him some leeway.
All in all I think we have to find a way to surround our best players with more good players and get a functioning collective, rather than admonishing them for their weaknesses.
Zidane, Iniesta.... there were a few but I get what you're saying. As long as Pogba plays so deep, it is also not easy for him to influence our attacking game. On the other hand, he needs to become more consistent
Agreed.
Imo a big problem with us fans is we have too much expectation on the guy. Some may argue that with his transfer fee he should but well, didn't we pay £80m for a 27 yo Maguire?
He's definitely a very good player but imo he's not world class. He maybe for Juventus, for France but not for us, unfortunately. Imo consistency is what distinct a good player and a class player. And the ability to shine when it's required, big games, big moments, when your team needs you the most.
I don't want to compare him to Bruno but look. In his years with us, he has never won a single POTY or I haven't even seen much here suggesting so. And Bruno, only half a season here and like a third of the caf think he should win the POTY. That speaks volumes imo.
If we can accept he is not world class, then we can live with his inconsistency and appreciate more his talent and what he has done/ can do for us I think.
He played many times on the left. V Newcastle away he was on the left and Jesse on the right.
Fair point. This deep lying role is fairly new to him, and I AM seeing improvements in his play. He needs to learn to release the ball quicker at times. And not try to outmuscle players when he is outumbered 3 to 1. But considering how crazily Sevilla were pressing him, and he also had an onus on playing line breaking passes, I think he did a good job. His defensive contribution was also much better(another weakness of his game that he is improving). But he has so many good abilities : his strength, his passing range, his creativity, his ball retention ability, his aerial ability, his skill, etc.
Deciding the game means winning the game which is usually done by goals + assists. They created platform for attackers to shine instead of winning the games with great end product.
For example, Iniesta scored 35 league goals in 16 seasons at Barca, obviously he was better player than Pogba and better midfielder too.
Point was, midfielders are rarely match winners, especially when the player players in deeper role in midfield 2.
I have no problem comparing him with Bruno....Bruno had a great start after a mediocre debut, until lockdown. Then restarted brilliantly against Sheffield Utd Bournemouth Brighton but some of his performances since have been sloppy, decision making has been terrible, constantly giving the ball away at times in dangerous areas allowing teams to counter, he’s playing to high up the pitch and not in position for teammates to find him and worse he’s leaving his teammates in midfield isolated and outnumbered. He needs to stop taking shots from ridiculous positions and learn to stop forcing things so much.....and for a 10 how many goals has he scored from open play? One vs Everton that my Gran could’ve saved and one vs Brighton....that’s not good enough for a supposedly world class number 10 who leaves his midfield exposed as a result of how high up the pitch he is. He’s a moments player, so his youtube highlights look phenomenal and he’s been fortunate that the unusual amount of penalties we have received have masked his lack of goals. Also fans here love a bit of running so if he loses the ball and runs a bit that’s apparently ok too, even though he rarely wins it back.
See...we can make the comparison by shifting the same negative prism....none of what I have written is made up. All of that can be levelled at Bruno, playing closer to the goal is more likely to result in more goal contributions but frankly a fair few assists have been simple passes that a player has gone on to score from rather than the creation of a great chance.
He will need to get back to his earlier form if we are going to do anything next season, and the fluctuation in performance from his best to worst form is a concern. At his worst he doesn’t look like he can pass it five yards.
He had a run of many games ? Playing on the left of a 3 as an attacking midfielder like he did vs Everton ? I don’t remember that spell, I remember him having a few odd games there but mostly being part of the midfield
- Status