[In Rainbows]

The big chances created stat doesn't consider Pogba's two assists against Chelsea as big chances. One put Rashford clean through on a 1v1 and he set up a chance for James literally a foot away from the pen with no defender in front of him.

Perhaps but why wouldn't he buy into Ole's system?

I don't believe his running stats were great at Juve either, I think @devilish confirmed this in another thread IIRC.

I think with Pogba, it isn't just his lower work rate in terms of distance covered, its his lack of speed off the mark that hinders him in such a system too. I can only really see him play as the DLP in such a system but then he's to careless on the ball too often as the last man in midfield when pressed.

First, it's a fact that Pogba is less interested in defense. I think we can all agree on that. He'll try occasionally to get that tackle, which he does do. Still, he's not a consistent hard worker.

But it's very easy to see why motivation can change for a player depending on the manager. If it's very easy to see how you benefit from doing what the manager tells you, you're more inclined to follow instructions. Liverpool and Pep's instructions make it easier for an attacking player to thrive in and part of that comes from their pressing, which is well coordinated. We don't really get that level of coordination, and it's easy to see. I think it's a poor excuse to just lay the blame on Pogba.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The big chances created stat doesn't consider Pogba's two assists against Chelsea as big chances. One put Rashford clean through on a 1v1 and he set up a chance for James literally a foot away from the pen with no defender in front of him.

That would be because in similar positions in the past players haven't scored enough times to warrant it as such.

I think you are exaggerating a bit too, James first touch is actually just outside the box, or on the line so he's always going to take a touch there before shooting, in which time a the Chelsea defender can get close enough to affect the opportunity, especially as James had to slow up and couldn't take it in his stride.

 

[In Rainbows]

That would be because in similar positions in the past players haven't scored enough times to warrant it as such.

Of course, but that's context that doesn't get shown by the stat. You can't ask for more from a deep player. At that point it's up to the receiving player. It's not as simple as just presenting the statistic. The statistic is there to show what it's there to do, which I'm not here to argue against. It's the user that needs to be careful when trying to support an argument. In this case, those were big chances that a striker at a top club needs to put away, which our players did.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Of course, but that's context that doesn't get shown by the stat. You can't ask for more from a deep player. At that point it's up to the receiving player. It's not as simple as just presenting the statistic. The statistic is there to show what it's there to do, which I'm not here to argue against. It's the user that needs to be careful when trying to support an argument. In this case, those were big chances that a striker at a top club needs to put away, which our players did.

This was my edit

I think you are exaggerating a bit too, James first touch is actually just outside the box, or on the line so he's always going to take a touch there before shooting, in which time a the Chelsea defender can get close enough to affect the opportunity, especially as James had to slow up and couldn't take it in his stride.

 

[In Rainbows]

I think you are exaggerating a bit too, James first touch is actually just outside the box, or on the line so he's always going to take a touch there before shooting, in which time a the Chelsea defender can get close enough to affect the opportunity, especially as James couldn't take it in his stride.

This doesn't really change much. He didn't have to stumble, which made his shot more contested. It wasn't played fast to where he couldn't catch up to it. The ball is literally rolling to him.

James managed to score there as expected. Everyone would agree. To argue against that makes no sense with everyone being able to see the footage.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

This doesn't really change much. He didn't have to stumble, which made his shot more contested. It wasn't played fast to where he couldn't catch up to it. The ball is literally rolling to him.

James managed to score there as expected. Everyone would agree. To argue against that makes no sense with everyone being able to see the footage.

I think its an interesting display of your bias at work more than anything. You exaggerated the chance by quite a lot to prove a point, saying that he got a free shot from 13 yards with no defenders challenging him when in fact he first touched the ball 18 yards from goal, had to slow down and take a touch by which time the defender was able to close down the shot. Even if his first touch had been better I think the defender still could have got a challenge in.

I mean, the model estimates the quality of a chance by how many players scored from the same situation so perhaps expectations don't marry with reality?

I would concede that xG for elite level strikers only might give a different grading of the chance.

 

[In Rainbows]

I think its an interesting display of your bias at work more than anything. You exaggerated the chance by quite a lot to prove a point, saying that he got a free shot from 13 yards with no defenders challenging him when in fact he first touched the ball 18 yards from goal, had to slow down and take a touch by which time the defender was able to close down the shot. Even if his first touch had been better I think the defender still could have got a challenge in.

I mean, the model estimates the quality of a chance by how many players scored from the same situation so perhaps expectations don't marry with reality?

I would concede that xG for elite level strikers only might give a different grading of the chance.

No I didn't. I used my memory of which you corrected, but added your own bias. I said James had no defender in front of him, which he didn't when he could have received the pass. I was correct on that. James decided to use his right foot to set up his shot to the side instead of going forward. That made it slightly worse of a chance than it could have been, which is reflected by the stat. That's a micro level decision that James decided and in the end it worked for him and United. That's not on Pogba though. If he took the touch to go in a more vertical position, does that not make the chance better?

I have no problem with the model of xA or xG. I don't know why you're trying to paint me as that. In fact, the fact that you mention a better first touch that has nothing to do with Pogba affecting the stat, just proves my point. The stat measures the quality of chance. It's up to the user to know the context so that he can properly put forward a well made argument.

The Rashford one is a great example. It's a 1v1. From that position, how can Pogba give Rashford an even better chance? Is that possible without a defender's influence (like not paying attention or giving up early)? In the end, the larger sample size will show how creative Pogba is, and based on his xA I think he's pretty good on that front.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

No I didn't. I used my memory of which you corrected, but added your own bias. I said James had no defender in front of him, which he didn't when he could have received the pass. I was correct on that. James decided to use his right foot to set up his shot to the side instead of going forward. That made it slightly worse of a chance than it could have been, which is reflected by the stat. That's a micro level decision that James decided and in the end it worked for him and United. That's not on Pogba though. If he took the touch to go in a more vertical position, does that not make the chance better?

I have no problem with the model of xA or xG. I don't know why you're trying to paint me as that. In fact, the fact that you mention a better first touch that has nothing to do with Pogba affecting the stat, just proves my point. The stat measures the quality of chance. It's up to the user to know the context so that he can properly put forward a well made argument.

The Rashford one is a great example. It's a 1v1. From that position, how can Pogba give Rashford an even better chance? Is that possible without a defender's influence (like not paying attention or giving up early)?

We are going to end up going too deep into nuance here, you can argue that a more vertical touch would enable the keeper to come out and for the defender to get closer quicker, with James having to slow down that would be disadvantageous. I think he had to take it wide but took it a little too wide but the defender was able to close the angle and slide in. So while appearing like a clear chance, the variables involved made it less so and as such not a 'big chance'.

I don't think it does make the chance better necessarily. The model claims to advantage the assist maker in events like a player not getting a shot off, or performing in a sub-optimal fashion, you can see this in their video on the other page. I think primarily it is graded on the position he takes the ball and the situational play in front of him, position of the defenders etc and perhaps the speed at which they take the ball etc.

I will concede that we don't know what these exact variables that Opta use are (they're secret because they make most money selling stats to major sports teams so they want to protect their model I guess), so I am speculating here a bit.

The Rashford chance is a fair point. Pogba can't really make the chance much better in that situation but that is why it classed as a 'big chance'.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

It really isn't when it comes to xG and chance creation though. The database that Opta uses draws on situations plays from thousands of games to assess a players likelihood of scoring in a given position.

To put in most simply, one of the factors that it looks at is how many goals are scored from the position where the attacker shoots from in previous games in top level football, so if attackers have scored from that position 50% of times in the the past then the xG in that situation is 0.5. The model is more complex than that and factors in many other variables but the chance is rated by how players have performed in the same situations in real football matches in the past. It is far more comprehensive and complex than the human memory can ever be and isn't subject to bias in the same way. Humans are exceptionally flawed when it comes to biases.

If you're talking about the xPTS table then sure, it becomes a lot more woolly but when it comes to individual chance quality its pretty solid.

A previous poster was trying to discredit the model because McT's pass was a long punt into a space that Rashford was in, which ended up putting him clear, although in a difficult position to get the ball under control. The intentions of the assisting player has nothing to do with the quality of the chance rating.

Pogba's xA from 4 'key passes' in this game was 0.28 so none of the chance were anywhere near what you would call 'big', in fact they were all situations where the forward was highly unlikely to score. Messi only outperforms his xG by about 15% and he's by far the most remarkable player in this regard, from 4 chances only adding up to 0.28 xA its unlikely that even he would find the net. That said, on the chance that went wide of an optimal shooting position on to Rashford's left and a defender was close by, perhaps Messi's xG in that specific position would be higher because of the strengths of the player and him being left footed. I'd imagine that Opta provide clubs with much more detailed xG that would include more player specific data.

Pogba has only created 1 'big chance' this season. That's where the player should reasonably be expected to score given the performance of past players in a similar position in the past. This was against Chelsea and Rashford scored the chance.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/big_chance_created

If you look at Pogba's career, generally he outperforms his xA, 11-12 more assists than the quality of his chances average over the past 5 seasons , so the idea that his team mates aren't scoring amazing chances that he creates and makes him look bad is very questionable one.

https://understat.com/player/1740

This back to circle again, since you are ignoring every sentences that I said on that previous post.

Let me repeat this again. How is it matter to you whether we remember them or no? Because I don’t think human memory is the issue here. As long as there is a clip provided for us to view or watch, human can still make judgment whether the pass can be a match winner or no. It cannot be judge alone by just some computer tools that has no understanding of the game.

Human is flawed when it comes to biased, but tools is limit to have an idea of what’s actually happening in the event. Tools like xG will be used to help us but not to make the final decision.
xG incapable to see the differential if the same pass made to Rashford will have different result if the pass made to RVP. But we can.
xG incapable to measure what Pogba or other player should do better, may be the pass that he made was his only choice given at the situation & condition of the game & what he had. But we can.

Not sure who are you talking about the previous poster. You are mixing our original conversation to others that I don’t get involved with.

So 0.28 was from 4 passes not from 1 pass. So basically McT had slightly higher because of the assist due to James was able to execute the pass much better than both Rashford & Lingard.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

This back to circle again, since you are ignoring every sentences that I said on that previous post.

Let me repeat this again. How is it matter to you whether we remember them or no? Because I don’t think human memory is the issue here. As long as there is a clip provided for us to view or watch, human can still make judgment whether the pass can be a match winner or no. It cannot be judge alone by just some computer tools that has no understanding of the game.

Human is flawed when it comes to biased, but tools is limit to have an idea of what’s actually happening in the event. Tools like xG will be used to help us but not to make the final decision.
xG incapable to see the differential if the same pass made to Rashford will have different result if the pass made to RVP. But we can.
xG incapable to measure what Pogba or other player should do better, may be the pass that he made was his only choice given at the situation & condition of the game & what he had. But we can.

Not sure who are you talking about the previous poster. You are mixing our original conversation to others that I don’t get involved with.

So 0.28 was from 4 passes not from 1 pass. So basically McT had slightly higher because of the assist due to James was able to execute the pass much better than both Rashford & Lingard.

No, the actions of the attacker doesn’t affect the xA for the creative player. Even if the attacker doesn’t shoot the xA will be given the same as if he scores. It clearly says this on Opta’s video that I posted, did you even watch it?

I had forgot about McT’s assist to James but his rating will have come from that pass, which would have been very low because few players will score from that pass and position, it was a brilliant goal, and the long pass that he made for Rashford must have been a low quality chance too.

Pogba had an xA of 0.28 because all the chances he made were very low probability of a goal being scored, it doesn’t matter what Rashford or Lingard did, the pass is graded on how other players have performed from receiving the same pass, in the same position, with the same amount of defenders around them in the past etc.

To try and apply how you think RVP might do in a similar situation when he was bang on it doesn't really add much weight. Consider that in his golden season for us in the PL RVP took 4 shots every 90 minutes and only scored 0.75 goals every 90, he missed the vast majority of his attempts. On his best day RVP could have scored one of those chances but it doesn't make it reasonable to expect players to do so on a consistent basis, it's exactly why the xG for those chances was so low because players miss similar quality chances the vast majority of the time.

 

[Hammondo]

No, the actions of the attacker doesn’t affect the xA for the creative player. Even if the attacker doesn’t shoot the xA will be given the same as if he scores. It clearly says this on Opta’s video that I posted, did you even watch it?

I had forgot about McT’s assist to James but his rating will have come from that pass, which would have been very low because few players will score from that pass and position, it was a brilliant goal, and the long pass that he made for Rashford must have been a low quality chance too.

Pogba had an xA of 0.28 because all the chances he made were very low probability of a goal being scored, it doesn’t matter what Rashford or Lingard did, the pass is graded on how other players have performed from receiving the same pass, in the same position, with the same amount of defenders around them in the past etc.

To try and apply how you think RVP might do in a similar situation when he was bang on it doesn't really add much weight. Consider that in his golden season for us in the PL RVP took 4 shots every 90 minutes and only scored 0.75 goals every 90, he missed the vast majority of his attempts. On his best day RVP could have scored one of those chances but it doesn't make it reasonable to expect players to do so on a consistent basis, it's exactly why the xG for those chances was so low because players miss similar quality chances the vast majority of the time.

If your argument relies on "on his day", then it's flawed

 

[Classical Mechanic]

If your argument relies on "on his day", then it's flawed

That isn't my argument?

 

[Hammondo]

That isn't my argument?

Shit sry, read your post too quickly on the bus.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

No, the actions of the attacker doesn’t affect the xA for the creative player. Even if the attacker doesn’t shoot the xA will be given the same as if he scores. It clearly says this on Opta’s video that I posted, did you even watch it?

Clearly you didn't read my post properly.

I had forgot about McT’s assist to James but his rating will have come from that pass, which would have been very low because few players will score from that pass and position, it was a brilliant goal, and the long pass that he made for Rashford must have been a low quality chance too.

Pogba had an xA of 0.28 because all the chances he made were very low probability of a goal being scored, it doesn’t matter what Rashford or Lingard did, the pass is graded on how other players have performed from receiving the same pass, in the same position, with the same amount of defenders around them in the past etc.

xA will get higher if the finisher can utilise the passer into goals. McTomminay's xA is an example of it. I could also say that Pogba's 2 key passes were very low but the other 2 were high enough that the finisher should have scored.

To try and apply how you think RVP might do in a similar situation when he was bang on it doesn't really add much weight. Consider that in his golden season for us in the PL RVP took 4 shots every 90 minutes and only scored 0.75 goals every 90, he missed the vast majority of his attempts. On his best day RVP could have scored one of those chances but it doesn't make it reasonable to expect players to do so on a consistent basis, it's exactly why the xG for those chances was so low because players miss similar quality chances the vast majority of the time.

What I meant was that RVP was a world class striker, good on both feet, know how to hold the ball even in penalty box in tight spot, good decision making, any top striker like him can make simple key pass to a goal. The same as other player from other team who are benefit from having strikers like Lewandowski, Suarez, Kane and etc.

 

[HowYouDoin]

I feel as soon as we move him to AM, people will complain that he just isnt best suited there. Face it, Pogba does not have the best position. That is the biggest problem with him IMO. There will always be something lacking. He can't really press as well as we'd like, he's not that great when pressed and he won't get enough time on the ball as a CAM. There's definitely downsides to playing him there.
With all that said, we do need to play him there because we need to play Fred. Our best line up is with Fred playing, by far and Pogba is marginally better as an AM.
However you won't get the best out of him at any position simply because he doesn't really have the best position the way I see it. It's always about the personal next to him.
For France he's a CM and that works because of the personnel. For Juventus he was an AM and that worked also because of the personnel. If he is the one that is asked to carry the team, the fact he doesn't really have a position really becomes emphasized. It's all about the personnel next to him. We need to play Fred and that's all. That's why Pogba needs to be our AM, because we have the best personnel to play him there.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

xA will get higher if the finisher can utilise the passer into goals. McTomminay's xA is an example of it. I could also say that Pogba's 2 key passes were very low but the other 2 were high enough that the finisher should have scored.

It doesn't and it wasn't.

The rating is the same in that game whatever the finisher does with it. The data from the game will be added to the overall database after the match and be used going forward but in the actual game it doesn't make a difference. McT's rating came from the other chance he created as well, which put Rashord (kind of) through on the keeper.

Pogba's xA is an accumulation of the 4 values, regardless of what the striker did. None were good chances and that is why the 4 only add up to 0.28.

For a simple exampe, Look at Rashford against Soton, 2 shots, 1 goal xG 0.81. His pen would have been 0.75 because 75% of penalties are scored in the PL and his freekick 0.06 because only around 1 in 20 of those freekick situations result in a goal.

RVP was a world class striker but the only data available was in his last season with us and he under-performed his xG.

https://understat.com/player/4387

Suarez has outperformed his xG reasonably over 5 seasons

https://understat.com/player/2098

Lewandowski has underperformed his xG oer 5 seasons. Last season he scored 11 less than he should!

https://understat.com/player/227

Kane has done better than those other players

https://understat.com/player/647

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

It doesn't and it wasn't.

The rating is the same in that game whatever the finisher does with it. The data from the game will be added to the overall database after the match and be used going forward but in the actual game it doesn't make a difference. McT's rating came from the other chance he created as well, which put Rashord (kind of) through on the keeper.

Pogba's xA is an accumulation of the 4 values, regardless of what the striker did. None were good chances and that is why the 4 only add up to 0.28.

For a simple exampe, Look at Rashford against Soton, 2 shots, 1 goal xG 0.81. His pen would have been 0.75 because 75% of penalties are scored in the PL and his freekick 0.06 because only around 1 in 20 of those freekick situations result in a goal.

RVP was a world class striker but the only data available was in his last season with us and he under-performed his xG.

https://understat.com/player/4387

Suarez has outperformed his xG reasonably over 5 seasons

https://understat.com/player/2098

Lewandowski has underperformed his xG oer 5 seasons. Last season he scored 11 less than he should!

https://understat.com/player/227

Kane has done better than those other players

https://understat.com/player/647

You are very lost from the discussion.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

You are very lost from the discussion.

Sorry but what you are saying is completely wrong, the crux of your argument is

xA will get higher if the finisher can utilise the passer into goals.

This is completely wrong when talking about it having a significant effect on Pogba's rating in a single game.

If you are taking about it being added to the database subsequently then you are correct but what significant numerical difference do you think one chance will make to a database of hundreds of thousands, probably millions?

It will only make a profound change to the data and xA rating if numerous players start scoring from those situations on a more regular basis.

The chances are rated from the historical database which is vast, not calculated in the game in isolation.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Sorry but what you are saying is completely wrong, the crux of your argument is

xA will get higher if the finisher can utilise the passer into goals.

This is completely wrong when talking about it having a significant effect on Pogba's rating in a single game.

If you are taking about it being added to the database subsequently then you are correct but what significant numerical difference do you think one chance will make to a database of hundreds of thousands, probably millions?

It will only make a profound change to the data and xA rating if numerous players start scoring from those situations on a more regular basis.

The chances are rated from the historical database which is vast, not calculated in the game in isolation.

Don't think it was the crux of argument. It was just one of the many pieces that I used for our discussion.

That means now xA becoming a questionable of the way they measure things.

Scott's pass to James was no different to Pogba's pass to Lingard. They both were simple pass to the feet with both receivers tried to had cracking shot which James scored while Lingard failed.

Scott's cross to Bissaka was no different to the two passes that Pogba made on Rashford. Bissaka was forced to take a shot in his awkward position due to the pressure from the Southampton player. While Pogba was forced to make the pass in the direction that he did due to Rashford made the run & Vestergaard great defending ability & reading the game well. Unfortunately xA incapable to give the opposition defender credit for these.

And Pogba's pass/cross to James should be the highest xA rating of all of these, he picked up James who was not marked in the box and James was able to take a shot.

Pogba should be credit higher imo.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Don't think it was the crux of argument. It was just one of the many pieces that I used for our discussion.

That means now xA becoming a questionable of the way they measure things.

Scott's pass to James was no different to Pogba's pass to Lingard. They both were simple pass to the feet with both receivers tried to had cracking shot which James scored while Lingard failed.

Scott's cross to Bissaka was no different to the two passes that Pogba made on Rashford. Bissaka was forced to take a shot in his awkward position due to the pressure from the Southampton player. While Pogba was forced to make the pass in the direction that he did due to Rashford made the run & Vestergaard great defending ability & reading the game well. Unfortunately xA incapable to give the opposition defender credit for these.

And Pogba's pass/cross to James should be the highest xA rating of all of these, he picked up James who was not marked in the box and James was able to take a shot.

Pogba should be credit higher imo.

I think this conversation has runs its course. You obviously reject the xG model and feel your own subjective interpretation is better. I strongly disagree with that point. I don't feel that we'll move on from that point and hopefully have better things to do.

 

[Jeppers7]

I think this conversation has runs its course. You obviously reject the xG model and feel your own subjective interpretation is better. I strongly disagree with that point. I don't feel that we'll move on from that point and hopefully have better things to do.

I think the real question is do you / have you used stats to credit Pogba rather than discredit Pogba ?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I think this conversation has runs its course. You obviously reject the xG model and feel your own subjective interpretation is better. I strongly disagree with that point. I don't feel that we'll move on from that point and hopefully have better things to do.

Stats of the software lacks of understanding of the game or ability to read the situation. I don't think you even understand it at all that's why you disagree with the point.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Jose back to Madrid, new contract for Pogba

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Stats of the software lacks of understanding of the game or ability to read the situation. I don't think you even understand it at all that's why you disagree with the point.

No. I disagreed with your opinion on a subjective basis as well. I didn't think that Pogba created any good chances in the game watching it where I'd expect the player to score. We can argue all day long on a subjective basis. To add weight to my argument I used xG modelling to back that up.

Stats of the software lacks of understanding of the game or ability to read the situation

The xG model does that (for the millionth time) by assessing success rates of players performance from similar passes and situational plays. It isn't complicated but I feel you wish to remain wilfully ignorant to it because it contradicts your opinion on your favourite player.

Out of curiosity, what are your qualifications in football that make you so good at assessing the quality of chances?

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Jose back to Madrid, new contract for Pogba

Just what he deserves - a pay rise.

 

[Lee565]

Jose back to Madrid, new contract for Pogba

I'm at the point where I hope we get rid of him asap, we didnt really miss him on Saturday, he's not that consistent with his performances, he's a luxury player you have to work the midfield around because of his flaws defensively and his flirtation with other clubs should not be accepted by this club, he won't be that hard to replace, let him act like prima Donna elsewhere even if it's for 100 million.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I'm at the point where I hope we get rid of him asap, we didnt really miss him on Saturday, he's not that consistent with his performances, he's a luxury player you have to work the midfield around because of his flaws defensively and his flirtation with other clubs should not be accepted by this club, he won't be that hard to replace, let him act like prima Donna elsewhere even if it's for 100 million.

We didn't create anything from open play against Leicester.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Just what he deserves - a pay rise.

I hope he announces it on Instagram dancing with a new hair cut

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

No. I disagreed with your opinion on a subjective basis as well. I didn't think that Pogba created any good chances in the game watching it where I'd expect the player to score. We can argue all day long on a subjective basis. To add weight to my argument I used xG modelling to back that up.

Stats of the software lacks of understanding of the game or ability to read the situation

The xG model does that (for the millionth time) by assessing success rates of players performance from similar passes and situational plays. It isn't complicated but I feel you wish to remain wilfully ignorant to it because it contradicts your opinion on your favourite player.

Out of curiosity, what are your qualifications in football that make you so good at assessing the quality of chances?

The topic here is whether Pogba's key passes in that game should be given much more credit. The issue here is that you used number of valuation that come out from the stats software to backup what you think but in the actual fact is no logic explanation provided. I have given you good enough logic explanation why I believe some of the Pogba's chances that he created were good enough.

When someone is presenting something with stats or graph, they should explain why the stats or graph showing the specific number. Not explaining how the software works. The software isn't the topic of what we have been discussing originally. Not rocket science, no need to know what level of qualification you have to come out with some explanation.

Not sure how you can come out into conclusion that Pogba is my favourite player, if he creates chance while some of our players are missing chances then of course I will say it. I could also make a random conclusion outnowhere to tell you that it's not complicated and you wish to remain willfully ignorant to it because it contradicts your opinion on the player that you dislike.

 

[Jeppers7]

No. I disagreed with your opinion on a subjective basis as well. I didn't think that Pogba created any good chances in the game watching it where I'd expect the player to score. We can argue all day long on a subjective basis. To add weight to my argument I used xG modelling to back that up.

Stats of the software lacks of understanding of the game or ability to read the situation

The xG model does that (for the millionth time) by assessing success rates of players performance from similar passes and situational plays. It isn't complicated but I feel you wish to remain wilfully ignorant to it because it contradicts your opinion on your favourite player.

Out of curiosity, what are your qualifications in football that make you so good at assessing the quality of chances?

Have you used stats to credit Pogba anywhere or simply discredit him and questioned any stats the reflect positively on him ?

 

[fergiesarmy1]

I hope he announces it on Instagram dancing with a new hair cut

It will be his best performance of the season so far.

 

[Cassidy]

Don't think it was the crux of argument. It was just one of the many pieces that I used for our discussion.

That means now xA becoming a questionable of the way they measure things.

Scott's pass to James was no different to Pogba's pass to Lingard. They both were simple pass to the feet with both receivers tried to had cracking shot which James scored while Lingard failed.

Scott's cross to Bissaka was no different to the two passes that Pogba made on Rashford. Bissaka was forced to take a shot in his awkward position due to the pressure from the Southampton player. While Pogba was forced to make the pass in the direction that he did due to Rashford made the run & Vestergaard great defending ability & reading the game well. Unfortunately xA incapable to give the opposition defender credit for these.

And Pogba's pass/cross to James should be the highest xA rating of all of these, he picked up James who was not marked in the box and James was able to take a shot.

Pogba should be credit higher imo.

You forgot Scotts ball to Rashford which is what likely gave him a higher rating

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

You forgot Scotts ball to Rashford which is what likely gave him a higher rating

Any link? Because I can't remember Scott made more than 2 key passes.

 

[Posh Red]

It will be his best performance of the season so far.

You are absolutely relentless!

 

[Jeppers7]

Any link? Because I can't remember Scott made more than 2 key passes.

It was a punt upfield that ended up in the area with Rashford and the keeper.

 

[VJ1762]

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[Adam-Utd]

It will be his best performance of the season so far.

Touche You're a funny guy. I can't wait for the day Pogba plays out of his skin and see you give him a positive remark

 

[VJ1762]

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I kinda agree with him tbh. I have been a supporter since 2008, and I have never seen fans make excuses like they do for Pogba. His talent is very very obvious, but 3 years later, we still don't know his best position. Should he play in a 2, on the left of a 3 man midfield, as a No 10 or as a No 8? Like, what is he?

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Touche You're a funny guy. I can't wait for the day Pogba plays out of his skin and see you give him a positive remark

Well even a broken clock is right twice a day so he’s gotta have a worldly in him at least once this season

 

[fergiesarmy1]

You are absolutely relentless!

His average rating above is 5.6 (and I haven’t even voted out of respect ) so it probably would be his best so far..........