Brilliant from Pep for being the be the first manager to realize that doping was the key to success in Football. He is truly innovative.
Pep - Doping (?) | Are PEDs being used by footballers
- Thread starter JoaquinJoaquin
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Starting to remind me of RAWK and Real Madrid Paranoia when pep was embarrassing them regularly.
Yes, the greatest invator in football, George Ramsey, Herbert Chapman, Bill Shankly, Matt Busby have nothing on this guy.
Except we weren't fined for doping. We were fined for a player's address not being updated. That was literally it.
Not quite literally it really, here is some interesting reading for you!
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jan/11/manchester-city-charged-anti-doping
The FA has a three-strikes-and-out policy and it is alleged City have fallen foul of this, having thrice failed to update schedules of players who have changed training times when they have, for example, moved to train with Pep Guardiola’s first-team squad. Once Manchester City enter a plea, an independent commission will sit and judge the case.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sp...reak-three-anti-doping-rules-five-months.html
Manchester City broke FA anti-doping rules three times in just five months - with the first breach shortly after Pep Guardiola started as the club's manager.
City were charged with breaking the FA's 'whereabouts' rules and hit with a £35,000 fine in February.
Written reasons, published this week, revealed one of the strikes related to an incorrect hotel address given in September for a player which Sportsmail understands to be £21m summer signing Ilkay Gundogan.
The other two strikes were failing to inform the FA of an extra training session on July 12 - days after Guardiola's charges came back from their summer break - and an occasion in December when anti-doping officials were unable to test reserve team players because six of them had been given the day off without the FA being informed.
City told the FA the two training-session breaches were 'administrative errors' related to the club's new management team being unfamiliar with the system.
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The latter I think. He's on a campaign about player protection, it's natural that he'd play up injuries in the immediate aftermath of a match. People remember the player limping off or even getting carried off. They remember things like the image of the foot horribly out of alignment after a tackle.
He’s either got his doctors using questionable methods or he’s being a drama queen about his players injuries to get sympathy from referees.
What people aren't as sensitive to is what happened next. A sprained ankle often looks really bad if you see the tackle from the right angle, but there's no way for us to know what grade it is from that picture. Pep emphasises the bad tackle and bad injury, but the recovery timeline isn't usually known at that stage.
Sometimes they're back earlier than seemed possible (De Bruyne) after being carried off. Sometimes people mistake a back in training date for a ready to play date. I don't think there's much medical magic going on.
Danny Mills wrote a good piece about possible doping, the motivations and those dodgy procedures you can get abroad few years back.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-would-do-almost-anything-to-get-an-edge.html
“I’ve had PRP [platelet rich plasma] injections. If you have a muscle injury, you take out blood and spin it. It separates white and red cells and the plasma. The plasma has all the antibodies so that is injected into an injury and aids healing time by a third. It was undetectable.
"I was offered it in the States after having some physio there. A guy came up to me with his business card, saying: This is what we do, PRP injections’. It was illegal at the time.
“I started to think: ‘This could help me. What harm does it do? It’s not going to enhance my performance. All it will do is help aid my injury’. I was a bit concerned so I went through the official channels, got letters from the FA. But there are guys in Spain, Germany and America where you could book an appointment. Players went off and had it done.
“Why do players always go abroad for treatment? Is it because they trust that physio or because other treatments are available that doctors in this country won’t do? Players would go to Spain and Germany and get all sorts of different injections like calf serum, animal products.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-would-do-almost-anything-to-get-an-edge.html
“I’ve had PRP [platelet rich plasma] injections. If you have a muscle injury, you take out blood and spin it. It separates white and red cells and the plasma. The plasma has all the antibodies so that is injected into an injury and aids healing time by a third. It was undetectable.
"I was offered it in the States after having some physio there. A guy came up to me with his business card, saying: This is what we do, PRP injections’. It was illegal at the time.
“I started to think: ‘This could help me. What harm does it do? It’s not going to enhance my performance. All it will do is help aid my injury’. I was a bit concerned so I went through the official channels, got letters from the FA. But there are guys in Spain, Germany and America where you could book an appointment. Players went off and had it done.
“Why do players always go abroad for treatment? Is it because they trust that physio or because other treatments are available that doctors in this country won’t do? Players would go to Spain and Germany and get all sorts of different injections like calf serum, animal products.”
That's certainly true and a lot of clubs and managers do encourage players to use those procedures. It's important to understand though that those treatments are not banned, and that football has an equivalent of the "therapeutic use" exemption to allow things like platelet injections.
Those procedures can also mask illegal drugs and illegal use of techniques like platelet rich blood doping. Football doesn't do any kind of systematic blood testing that can spot that. Football in general has a lot of concessions and special provisions around testing. Rules brought in with massive backing from players and managers (including SAF) that make the whereabouts rules a lot more generous for footballers than other athletes for example.
I'm fairly ignorant about doping rules in football, but I do follow cycling closely. In cycling, there's a no-needle policy that prohibits the use of injections unless there's a clear medical need. Has there ever been a debate about something similar in football? I sometimes see stuff about players getting injections to play through minor injuries, is that still a widespread practice? Because that sort of thing would earn you an instant doping ban in cycling. There seems to be a lot less transparency about this in football compared to a sport like cycling, but perhaps that's just my ignorance on the subject.
So because City are outperforming the rest all their players are taking PEDs? Wouldn't anyone making that argument in SAF days be dubbed a bitter blue? The two clubs seem to have swapped places!
Would anyone have been making these claims had SAF been successful in persuading Pep to be his replacement at OT?
Do you think that, if the system could be played the way folks on here are implying, that Jose is the principled one who wouldn't allow it at OT?
Would anyone have been making these claims had SAF been successful in persuading Pep to be his replacement at OT?
Do you think that, if the system could be played the way folks on here are implying, that Jose is the principled one who wouldn't allow it at OT?
100% convinced there's something going on. The Spurs game was the most telling. When their players were just sprinting for 90 minutes and ran a team renowned for running into the ground. It will come across as bitterness but I don't particularly give a f*ck - I seen De Bruyne in the Bundesliga and while he ran around a lot he was never sprinting 30 yards to push Mousa Dembele's to the floor time and again.
They're on something. Pep is dodgy as feck. Would be so much more satisfying if I wasn't convinced the likes of Valencia and Ibrahimovic are also at it as well as just about every other top level player. Too much money involved and too little effort to do something about it. Pretty much anyone who's anyone in the doping world knows it's rife in football.
They're on something. Pep is dodgy as feck. Would be so much more satisfying if I wasn't convinced the likes of Valencia and Ibrahimovic are also at it as well as just about every other top level player. Too much money involved and too little effort to do something about it. Pretty much anyone who's anyone in the doping world knows it's rife in football.
Why don't you read the articles and the research behind it first? This isn't just pure speculation out of nowhere. Might turn out to be nothing and City may just be the best footballing side, but there is no smoke without fire, and this thread is to talk about that.
How are these people with 4 posts (a newly created City fan account) posting on the main forum
??Jesus just enjoy the football. Everyone knows that all top level athletes use some form of light-doping that just bends the rules a bit.
Don't understand this either. What ever happened to the newbie forums? Do they even still exist?How are these people with 4 posts (a newly created City fan account) posting on the main forum
The rules in football are a joke especially in Spain IIRC they aren't testing anyone currently. @jojojo would know?
edit: this is what I was referring to. Not sure if they have started testing again.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-drug-testing-in-spanish-football-as-alarming
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Whether it’s complete nonsense or not, there is absolutely no harm in discussing it or joking about it.
This is still closer to what I said than what you said.
Sane on the bench tonight. Meant to be out for 7 weeks, out for only 2.
Hmmm....
Hmmm....
The reason it is being mentioned is because when ever they report a serious injury they seem to be back in half the amount of time that 1) they initially reported and 2) earlier than that form of injury takes to recover.
With the history of Guardiola taking steroids, the Spanish doping scandal and other coincidence people are putting two and two together, whether right or wrong.
I wish people would stop comparing this with ‘imagine if people said this under Sir Alex’. We never had miraculous injury recovery under his reign so that argument is completely floored.
I didn't actually say anything other than "that's not quite it" and posted the links to the articles with a few extracts from them under the links. Think you are confusing me with someone else?
I am. Apologies.
No problem. Being a City fan you might know the answer as to how it was discovered that the reserve team players had been given the day off? The Mail article suggests that the drug testers were unable to test them because they had been given the day off and they had not been informed. Does this then mean they turned up to test them and they were not there?
They report a serious injury and they are back immediately. That’s not a great way to hide it, is it? Nothing in it. Or they are stupid.
I'd bloody love of they got caught and were docked heavoly , handing us the tittle.
Apparently drugs make you stupid so..
I'm not sure actually. I think it does mean that, though.
I remember there being a case about one of our first team players - for some reason my brain's telling me it was Nasri - where they'd moved house, and when the FA turned up to randomly test him at home, they found the new owners instead of our player?
So that would mean Dembele/Spurs also dope? In which case they'd have the same advantage as de Bruyne did in that game.
If City were going to 'dope' injured players, why would we publicly announce an exaggerated injury duration? That makes no sense.
No.
Basically yes. The question of how much notice the club had (it should be zero) always comes up in these situations. Assuming it was zero then it's two unusual events - the paperwork error + the test visit - happening at the same time and an unlucky coincidence.
Another interpretation is maybe they made the same paperwork error lots of times, but only occasionally did the testers arrive that same day. The nastiest interpretation would be they were tipped off that the inspectors were coming, and acted on that.
The testing authority decided that the incidents were just random coincidences. Presumably they also increased the random checks to see if the compliance issues has been sorted, but as they don't publicly announce what tests they've done over a season we don't really know what the follow up was, beyond the fine. Nor do we know how many other clubs had one or two similar incidents last season and didn't get fined.
I always thought the 'play through the pain' injections would just be local anisthetic like you get when you need stitches or whatever. Just to numb the pain. Just an assumption though. Hardly PED if its tha case with that one.
So all top players dope bar those who play for Spurs?
They’re fecking cheating so whatever they win doesn’t count. Happy to clear this up
The incredible thing is Players who have had Careers always hindered with injuries arent injury prone anymore. Even if they get injured, they come back so soon, especially from muscular injuries. Stamina levels also seem to be above anyone else in the country.
Players like Gundogan, Aguero have suddenly lost their injury proneness, Silva is playing like he is 25. They have some great doctors that many clubs and athletes will kill for.
Players like Gundogan, Aguero have suddenly lost their injury proneness, Silva is playing like he is 25. They have some great doctors that many clubs and athletes will kill for.
Local anaesthetics, and anti-inflammatories before training/games. Muscle relaxants and platelet enriched ("spun") blood amongst other things during injury treatment. I don't know if it's still being done but historically vitamins and other supplements have been given to footballers as injections.
Basically the point @Ainu is making is that those things are not routinely used in cycling - where a "no needles" policy is in place. As soon as you allow needle usage you introduce an unknown, in which a player can reasonably claim he doesn't know what he was given. Significantly, certain PED tests include some indirect tests, for example tests that look for synthetics introduced into the blood by the tubes used during transfusions or preservatives or for derivatives/breakdown products - it's those types of tests that become harder given what football does allow.
No.
Knowing us we'd probably end up bottling it anyway and finishing 3rd.
Can we loan Eric and Zlatan to them for just 2 weeks ? Its taking too much time with normal doctors.
I sure wish Gabriel Jesus was in on this conspiracy. He was due back weeks ago from his original estimation.
Feels like I ventured into a conspiracy theory subreddit.
Honest question for the doubters here, without irony, are Spurs players on the juice too? And Pochettino, maybe Argentinian connections, let's say, hum, Maradona? 