I'm sure six days before Soton showed us our backsides Newcastle had beaten us 5-0 at St James's, we then lost in Turkey in the Champions League then to top it off we got beat at home by Chelsea(four defeats in four games inside a fortnight), but we pissed the League so that's okay.4 months was too much, he should never of been given the job anyway.
Sacking the backroom staff that made the club successful, he was on the road to ruin immediately.
The thing you are missing with all those results is, its the accumulation of them. It's not any one individual result but the collective. Ferguson had his freak results, like Southampton smashing us 6-3 at the Dell but they were few and far between. City 6-1 was exaggerated due to an early red, the game was 2-1 at that point and we just imploded and the scoreline flattered City.
With Moyes we routinely lost to the weaker sides and got smashed by other big teams too.
I mean, wasn't it the first season in PL history where we lost all 4 games to both City and Liverpool? Sackable offence in itself.
There was nothing to be better about it happening in a season, it shouldn't of happened at all and no we were never going to even challenge for a league with Moyes in any year!
Can't believe anyone could even attempt to defend the horror show that was Moyes led United.
Peter Schmeichel: United regret we didn't give David Moyes more time
- Thread starter Suedesi
- Start date
LVG won a cup and qualified for the CL. Mourinho won 2 cups and qualified for the CL in both his seasons. I doubt Moyes could have did either of those things. He has no history of achieving either despite being at a decent side like Everton for 12 years.
11-12 failed attempts to qualify for the Champions League and if you factor in a few European campaigns he failed to win even a league a cup in 25-26 attempts to win a cup.
I think we all or most of us at least have a fair idea of what Moyes year two would have looked like, he would have sold 7-8 players and signed 4-5 on deadline day. Good players but workmanlike players that suit his percentage football. We would have huffed and puffed, been good against the fodder lower in the league but got smacked about about by any decent side and missed out on the top 4 and did nothing in the cups.
Rinse and repeat for a few years and by year 4 of Moyes 6 year deal we're Everton.
Now Van Gaal and Mourinho both failed but in the 4 seasons since Moyes was sacked we've won 3 trophies and qualified for the CL in 3 of the 4 seasons. For some perspective Liverpool have won one trophy since 2006 and have only qualified for the CL 3 times in the last decade.
So it could have been worse.
Yeah top players didn't seem to be lining up to play for him when United were champions and in the Champions League. They definitely wouldn't have been tempted after the disaster that was on show 13-14 and the lack of CL football.
But then i reckon Moyes would have reverted to type and not went after any big names his 2nd year. Instead sticking to what he knows decent hardworking PL players.
Jaysus. He didn't. And even if he did, it's a discussion, Fergie and Moyes are a pair of football managers, one very good, the other not so much. You talk as if Fergie is a religious icon and Moyes a guy in a mac who flashes kids in public parks.You're actually comparing Moyes to Ferguson??
Ferguson who broke the dominance of the Old Firm and was successful with Aberdeen. Ferguson won 11 trophies in Scotland, What in the blue hell had Moyes done?
The only comparison with the 2 is they are both Scottish and shout a lot.
The end.
Absolutely disgusting to disparage Feruson's name by comparing Moyes in anyway to him.
Agree! They all talk complete garbage. Give Moyes more time, what are you smoking Peter? Moyes is the same buffoon that said 'we aspire to be like City/Liverpool' after both of them spanked United at Old Trafford. He had a defeatist attitude and didn't have any charisma whatsoever. Teams often are representations of the managers personality, The idiot who gave us Fellaini for 6 years deserved more time did he, dear lord! Telling a team of champions you need to run more and showing Rio Ferdinand videos of Phil Jagielka to learn from
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Came in because I was wondering how this thread is still going, only to find people seriously arguing that Moyes should have gotten more time. Back out I go.
They are clueless sometimes, yes, without a doubt in my mind. Their football careers and their experiences are incredible but it's not an immunity against saying stupid things sometimes.
Well luckily for United(and the forum)not all us fans are fecking sheep, baa, baa, baa
If thinking that Moyes was a disaster and had no place at this club makes me a sheep, then I will gladly accept my wool
It would not have been an outrageous decision to sack Fergie before he got it right. In hindsight, that sounds ridiculous, but most managers who are struggling continue to struggle - Fergie is very much the exception to the rule. Also, Fergie’s pre-United track record was several leagues above anything Moyes achieved (as @Keefy18 already pointed out).
Whereas nobody pulls the wool over my eyesIf thinking that Moyes was a disaster and had no place at this club makes me a sheep, then I will gladly accept my wool
And they were still rare occurrences. Those type of results were are emphasized because they are an anomaly in his tenure.
Glad you pointed out the fact we still won the league, the fallacy in your defense of Moyes is that we went from Champions to 7th.
Apples and Oranges situation.
Luckily the board didn't listen to folks like you with regards Moyes! If we had folks like you running the club it'd be in league 2.
Well he did, he compared Moyes season to Ferguson's early struggles which is absolutely daft.
One had a winners CV, the other not. He didn't deserve anymore time, he was afforded more time than he should of got as is. He shouldn't of even got the job as many and myself stated.
Yeah you could be right, we might well be in League 2 but at least we'd have been spared the fecking embarrassment of having Jose Mourinho managing and taking the piss out of the club.
Would have liked to see what he could have done if he was given time and money to build his own team.
I could understand why he was sacked though but it seems to me that its been 5 years and we are only slightly better than we were when he was here. Sacking him done very little for us imo.
There were positives from his time here.
A lot of people dont realize we actually had the best away record in the league.
It was actually our home form that fecked us up.
We got to the semis of the league cup and werent that much worse than the previous winners of the Champions League i,e Bayern.
People can go on about us being a title winning team but imo its one of or if not the worst title winning teams i have ever seen.
We all conveniently forget that a year prior to that we were anihalated AT HOME 6-1 by City,schooled by Bilbao. Yes Bilbao.
Midtable la liga bilbao and dumped out of the carling cup by Crystal fecking Palace.
That wasnt a great team.
It was an old overrated team who won the league because of Fergusons brilliance.
Yes we should have given him time and yes we have regretted it.
I could understand why he was sacked though but it seems to me that its been 5 years and we are only slightly better than we were when he was here. Sacking him done very little for us imo.
There were positives from his time here.
A lot of people dont realize we actually had the best away record in the league.
It was actually our home form that fecked us up.
We got to the semis of the league cup and werent that much worse than the previous winners of the Champions League i,e Bayern.
People can go on about us being a title winning team but imo its one of or if not the worst title winning teams i have ever seen.
We all conveniently forget that a year prior to that we were anihalated AT HOME 6-1 by City,schooled by Bilbao. Yes Bilbao.
Midtable la liga bilbao and dumped out of the carling cup by Crystal fecking Palace.
That wasnt a great team.
It was an old overrated team who won the league because of Fergusons brilliance.
Yes we should have given him time and yes we have regretted it.
Wait, what?
Sheep have a strong instinct to follow the sheep in front of them. When one sheep decides to go somewhere, the rest of the flock usually follows, even if it is not a good "decision." ... If one sheep jumps over a cliff, the others are likely to follow.
The majority of this forum wasn’t against Moyes’s appointment. So that makes the ones who were for sheeps by default.
How? The second half of that season was so bad that I can't imagine it being any worse, really.
When did Schmeichel become a shill for Moyes? More importantly why does anyone care about either of them?
Schmeichel must be sleeping with Moyes' daughter to come out with something like this. Zaha and her must have ended since he moved back to London. Sounds like she gets around. I'd love to meet her myself.
Anyways I believe Moyes could have succeeded had he spent just 1 season as Fergie's No. 2 before taking over. But he's so incredibly delusional about his manager abilities that he'd probably have turned down an offer like that to instead fight for another mid-table comfort zone season at Everton.
Anyways I believe Moyes could have succeeded had he spent just 1 season as Fergie's No. 2 before taking over. But he's so incredibly delusional about his manager abilities that he'd probably have turned down an offer like that to instead fight for another mid-table comfort zone season at Everton.
Moyes was a disgrace. I was vehemently against him joining the club before he even got the job but then he got it. As Fergie requested, I backed the manager and I did so until he made it impossible to do so any more (Fulham 9th February 2014).
If you think any opinions of Moyes were influenced by anyone but him and his actions you must have completely slept through his managerial reign because it was nothing shot of a disgrace. You're entitled to have a contradictory opinion but it doesn't make you insightful and continuing with something that clearly isn't working for the sake of continuing is naive to say the least.
Saw a worrying story the other day that said the favourites for our DOF job were Schmeichel and the bloke from Leipzig...
It got us 3 trophies and 3 years out of 4 in the Champions League, Moyes has never achieved either feat. I doubt that would have changed.
Probably because it isn't actually true, we had the 4th best away record that year. Thats a myth that just wont die.
https://www.soccerstats.com/homeaway.asp?league=england_2014
Our home and away records weren't even that different, 34 points away and 30 points at home. We were similarly average where ever we played.
Home--------------------------------------Away
P: 19 W: 09 D: 03 L: 07------------------P: 19 W: 10 D: 04 L: 05
GF: 29 GA: 21 GD: +08-------------------GF: 35 GA: 22 GD: +13
30 PTS From possible 57 PTS-------------34 PTS From possible 57 PTS
No the big difference was vs the top 10 and bottom 10 in the league. We were good vs the bottom half because we had much better players and we were pathetic vs the top half because in tighter games where tactics and strategy come into play. The guy in charge of our tactics and strategy was sorely lacking.
top 10--------------------------------------bottom 10
P: 18 W: 03 D: 05 L: 10------------------P: 20 W: 16 D: 02 L: 02
GF: 16 GA: 28 GD: -12-------------------GF: 48 GA: 15 GD: +33
14 PTS From possible 54 PTS------------50 PTS From possible 60 PTS
We were.
Fergie was a genius not a magician. No manager no matter how good can get a poor side to win the league year after year. The 2013 side wasn't a great side like the 99 or 08 teams and it had a few key members on the wrong side of 30 but it was still a bloody good team.
No we haven't.
@Class of 63 Own up is this one of your other accounts?
Moyes wasn't a strong enough man or manager. United were lucky to win the title the year before and it was obvious to most football people we were not playing consistently good football. We won because of inspired play from van Persie, Nani and Valencia at different times during the campaign. Moyes, however, put blinders on, was afraid to rock the boat, and kept the status quo using our aging stars. A stronger person would have been bold, bought new players and transitioned the team.
I know, those EL and LC wins were so embarrasing. We would look so much better relegated with Moyes in charge. Other clubs would be envious of our class.
Actively planning to give new manager a few years time no matter the results is pure idiocy and does not happen at this level for a reason. Especially when that manager has zero history of winning. We played terrible football under him, broke all kinds of negative records, finished 7th and still we should have given him more time because... faith?
Give me even Jose above Moyes any day. That man has been the demise of United and the state we are in right now.
He is clueless and his press conferences are worse than Jose's. At least with Jose we won some trophies with the club in the 5th position the previous year.
Moyes made the champions of England a mid table side. Basically he made man Manchester United Everton all but in name.
I had a lot of respect for big Peter but he should shut the feck up on Moyes. I wish I had never heard of David Moyes. His subsequent appointments show that the man is not a top manager and should never be appointed to a top club.
He is clueless and his press conferences are worse than Jose's. At least with Jose we won some trophies with the club in the 5th position the previous year.
Moyes made the champions of England a mid table side. Basically he made man Manchester United Everton all but in name.
I had a lot of respect for big Peter but he should shut the feck up on Moyes. I wish I had never heard of David Moyes. His subsequent appointments show that the man is not a top manager and should never be appointed to a top club.
That link you posted was after 19 games,It got us 3 trophies and 3 years out of 4 in the Champions League, Moyes has never achieved either feat. I doubt that would have changed.
Probably because it isn't actually true, we had the 4th best away record that year. Thats a myth that just wont die.
https://www.soccerstats.com/homeaway.asp?league=england_2014
Our home and away records weren't even that different, 34 points away and 30 points at home. We were similarly average where ever we played.
Home--------------------------------------Away
P: 19 W: 09 D: 03 L: 07------------------P: 19 W: 10 D: 04 L: 05
GF: 29 GA: 21 GD: +08-------------------GF: 35 GA: 22 GD: +13
30 PTS From possible 57 PTS-------------34 PTS From possible 57 PTS
No the big difference was vs the top 10 and bottom 10 in the league. We were good vs the bottom half because we had much better players and we were pathetic vs the top half because in tighter games where tactics and strategy come into play. The guy in charge of our tactics and strategy was sorely lacking.
top 10--------------------------------------bottom 10
P: 18 W: 03 D: 05 L: 10------------------P: 20 W: 16 D: 02 L: 02
GF: 16 GA: 28 GD: -12-------------------GF: 48 GA: 15 GD: +33
14 PTS From possible 54 PTS------------50 PTS From possible 60 PTS
We were.
Fergie was a genius not a magician. No manager no matter how good can get a poor side to win the league year after year. The 2013 side wasn't a great side like the 99 or 08 teams and it had a few key members on the wrong side of 30 but it was still a bloody good team.
No we haven't.
@Class of 63 Own up is this one of your other accounts?
Im pretty sure we had the best away record.
And i still stand by what i said.
You are entitled to your opinion though but i disagree.
And i didnt say we was poor i said we was an old team that was overrated.
Overrated by many of our fans once we hired Moyes.
The narrative before hand however was that we needed a creative midfielder,Evra was past it and our Cbs were old.
Huh ?
Its an away table, you only play 19 away games. 19 home + 19 away = 38.
It's not an opinion mate it's a fact.
Thats a bit more reasonable than your last post on it. But i still think you are underrating that side.
Well you need to re-tune your imagination then because if we'd lost a few of the 8 League matches we won with David Moyes in charge from Jan. 1st until his sacking it would have been a worse, a lot worse.
The downside of freedom of speech.
Gee, thanks mate, I was starting to doubt it
Yes but Moyes didnt stay the full season.
He didnt see out the full 19 away games.
Giggs managed some games as well.
At the point of Moyes sacking I think we did have the best away record.
I dont think i am underrating the squad personally.
i think Moyes didnt do as good a job as he could and should have done with the squad at hand but i still think there was a lot of deadwood that needed clearing out and a lot of warning signs prior to Moyeses appointment.
@Class of 63 Own up is this one of your other accounts?
He only won 7 league games from January until his sacking mate, we could have lost all 7 and still finished around 11th-12th on 43 points.
We may well have had the best away record at some point mate, but Moyes was sacked after a defeat to Everton away which if we had won we would have had the best away record.
Giggs was only in charge for one away game a draw. So you can't blame Giggs.
It needed investment definitely and a clear out i don't think anyone disputes that. But it wasn't a poor side or an old one. Ferguson knew he was winding down and had let the squad get older than he normally would have. But it still had good players in their 20's like DeGea Rafael Jones Smalling Evans Mata Rooney Hernandez Young Nani Fellaini Welbeck Valencia Kagawa Zaha.
Experienced heads that weren't quite past it yet like Carrick Fletcher Van Persie Vidic and Evra.
The team needed 5-6 players no doubt but theres no reason that team shouldn't have came in the top 4.
Simple question for you, or anybody else that has the same argument about not giving him(Moyes) more time once he was in situ. Did you ever think when we were winning trophy after trophy after trophy that you were dreading the day SAF retired, I know I did, Christ when he announced his retirement the first time it felt like a death in the family, and when he actually did retire it felt like the world was ending,
I'd hazard a guess you also dreaded the day he would retire, and why is that, i'll tell you why because you knew deep down that without his guidance there was a real possibility that the wheels would come off whoever replaced him.
And because of that I don't feel the need to character assassinate the guy who had the Cohones to take on the job knowing he was almost certainly gonna fail and have his reputation tarnished for the rest of his career because of it. I've got the utmost respect for the guy, and if that makes me an oddball, so be it.
Go to bed lads, who cares about Moyes. Schmeichel is only saying this to stay relevant and you guys are smashing your heads in. Dithering Dave was never good enough, same as his deadline day buy from down the road
I have always hated his match interviews, which hardly gives anyone confidence that he was managing well. He seemed to have more positive things to say about our opponents than our own team. I think the senior players were starting to question Moyes by January that year. Eventually, he had to go. Seeing his performance at Real Sociedad, Sunderland and then West Ham, it is very difficult to convince anyone that he is the right man for the job.
If thats why you respect him so much mate then you shouldn't. Because you actually have no idea if he was thinking that way or not, for all you or i know Moyes might have been 100% confident he would have made a success of the job. Personally i suspect he was pretty confident of his chances, he had done well at Everton on a much smaller budget.
And to be honest if he did think he was going to fail then he shouldn't have taken the job, even though in reality 99.9% of managers in world football would have taken the job if offered. So i'm not sure it's such a brave decision in and of itself.
It’s very simple. United asked a manager who had won nothing to come in and replace the most successful manager not only in their clubs history but in the history of the game in England. What chance had Moyes got walking into a dressing room of winners of being respected?
Yes he did a fine job at Everton and showed a good eye for a player. Curiously his two big signings for United were unsuitable for United’s traditional style of play. Fellaini was never good enough and Mata not mobile enough.
Moyes had to take the United job or risk a life time of regret. In the context of Everton Moyes was successful. At United successful has a different meaning!
Yes he did a fine job at Everton and showed a good eye for a player. Curiously his two big signings for United were unsuitable for United’s traditional style of play. Fellaini was never good enough and Mata not mobile enough.
Moyes had to take the United job or risk a life time of regret. In the context of Everton Moyes was successful. At United successful has a different meaning!