Peter Schmeichel: United regret we didn't give David Moyes more time

[stevoc]

Yeah we sacked Mourinho before Xmas, but it was his third season not his first, and he was trying to get sacked anyway, and we were 19th in the League when Big Ron in his fifth season got sacked, and we'd just been humiliated at Southampton in the League Cup.

I couldn't give a flying fart what Royal Madrid and Chelsea do, or don't do mate, they just don't register.

Yes if we'd sacked David Moyes earlier we may have been able to rescue something from that season, but conversely it may have got worse, a lot worse.

What difference does it make if its their first season or 3rd season, if a manager is failing badly then you get rid of them. Sentiment doesn't come into it the club is bigger than any one person. Mourinho, Van Gaal and Ron Atkinson had all won trophies and done more for United than Moyes did yet they still got sacked. Why should the club go out of it's way to give special treatment to Moyes?

How exactly could it have got worse mate?

We already had 31 points by Xmas, 30, 32 and 33 points got you relegated that season so i don't think we were going to lose 19-20 league games in a row.

I won't read back thanks, i'll take your word for it, but maybe United finishing outside the top four should have been taken into consideration because it should have been bloody obvious that the new Manager(whoever he was)had a major rebuild on his hands, christ 5 years on we still haven't adequately replaced any of Rio, Vida and Evra who were all ready for the Travellers yard and of no use whatsoever to the new Manager and needed replacing asap, and the less said about the midfield and upfront the better. We basically needed a new team.

Yep i'm sure the Board hoped things would go smoothly but the fact they gave Moyes a six year contract suggests they knew there would be bumps ahead but they were placing their confidence in him to erm Manage the situation and get us back on track.

It was taken into consideration though, and it was deemed to be below minimum standards. Hence the clause in his contract that allowed the club to terminate his employment if he failed to qualify for the CL.

Mate you said in one of your posts yesterday that if there was a clause in his contract that stipulated that CL qualification was the bare minimum then fair enough he deserved to be sacked. But you seem to be arguing against your own point now.

it was written in said contract that top four was the bare-minimum than fair enough, sack him,

The 6 year contract was nothing more than a PR stunt, it gave Moyes no more protection than a 12 month contract would have done. Moyes willingly signed a contract with a minimum expected performance clause, he failed to meet that goal and he was subsequently sacked. He or no one else can really say he was hard done by.

And Yes SAF could be ruthless, but I don't recall him ever giving a player a 5/6 year contract, then binning them off 7 months later.

Taibi signed at the end of August 1999 on a 5 year deal, shipped back to Italy in January 2000. Costing the club £2-3m in the process. Fergie was ruthless back then, got rid of Bosnich after a year as well.

 

[mitchmouse]

Moyes was given about one season too long. Never right for the club, never good enough. His sole qualification seemed to be his was Scottish!

 

[Luciano Venturini]

Couldn't see the Moyes era produce anything special, was right to sack him imo. He's since gone on to do nothing of note at Sunderland, West Ham, Real Sociedad and his constant reminding us that he should've been given more time at any media opportunity is cringe worthy.

Schmeichel was a great goalkeeper but I genuinely can't remember listening to him as a pundit and wholeheartedly agreeing with anything he's said

 

[Maticmaker]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Like with Gary Neville, it helps make a great pundit, but not necessarily a good manager. "ifs, buts and maybe" haven't we had enough of them, lets proceed from where we are. At home City and Liverpool (ugh!) are showing the gap we have, abroad PSG demonstrated that gap on Tuesday, if Peter can come up with a plan for rescuing our CL tie, then I'm all ears!

 

[Xaviesta]

Anybody who thinks Moyes deserved more time are deluded like Schmeichel or they have an agenda like Gary Neville. Schmeichel's style of play opposition to Pep Guardiola managing United is interesting.

 

[Class of 63]

What difference does it make if its their first season or 3rd season, if a manager is failing badly then you get rid of them. Sentiment doesn't come into it the club is bigger than any one person. Mourinho, Van Gaal and Ron Atkinson had all won trophies and done more for United than Moyes did yet they still got sacked. Why should the club go out of it's way to give special treatment to Moyes?

How exactly could it have got worse mate?

We already had 31 points by Xmas, 30, 32 and 33 points got you relegated that season so i don't think we were going to lose 19-20 league games in a row.

It was taken into consideration though, and it was deemed to be below minimum standards. Hence the clause in his contract that allowed the club to terminate his employment if he failed to qualify for the CL.

Mate you said in one of your posts yesterday that if there was a clause in his contract that stipulated that CL qualification was the bare minimum then fair enough he deserved to be sacked. But you seem to be arguing against your own point now.

The 6 year contract was nothing more than a PR stunt, it gave Moyes no more protection than a 12 month contract would have done. Moyes willingly signed a contract with a minimum expected performance clause, he failed to meet that goal and he was subsequently sacked. He or no one else can really say he was hard done by.

Taibi signed at the end of August 1999 on a 5 year deal, shipped back to Italy in January 2000. Costing the club £2-3m in the process. Fergie was ruthless back then, got rid of Bosnich after a year as well.

Feck me you're hard work, you're the one who keeps bringing Xmas up, and if you can't tell the difference between sacking somebody with the ink still wet on a 6 year contract after only 4 months, sacking somebody in his third season who had been trying to get himself sacked for nearly a year, and a third guy who was in his 5th season and had the team in 19th place in the League at the time of his sacking I really can't help you.

Yes Mourinho and van Gaal did win trophies but compared to David Moyes they were allowed to shop at Harrods whilst Moyes shopped literately at the corner shop, and why should David Moyes get special treatment, oh I don't know, maybe because he unlike the other two was replacing one of the greatest Managers of all time who had been in office for 27 years and having the obvious problems that whoever replaced him would have.

How could it have got worse, seriously, surely if we'd finished 8th, 9th or lower, and we might have done if Ryan Giggs had come in earlier, it would've been worse than finishing 7th, no, and why you're mentioning points and being safe from relegation is beyond me.

I'm not arguing against my own point at all, this for the record is what I said: As i've said previously if he'd been given a 3 year contract and it was written in said contract that top four was the bare-minimum than fair enough, sack him, but because we gave him a 6 year contract it suggested the club felt, despite being reigning Champions, we needed a major overhaul of the squad, certainly the defence anyway(5 years on we still do) and would cut him some slack in his first year at least if we missed out on top four.

You're stretching it a bit with Taibi, he was brought in as cover(at some expense granted) for Bosnich and Rai van der Gouw who were both injured at the time, but he was never brought in to be a replacement for Big Pete, and yeah we took a hit on him when we sold him 20 months later, but selling him back to Italy we were always going to. And finally(a dark room awaits me), if SAF could have got Bosnich out the door sooner he would've done, the guy was taking the piss.

 

[Member 115509]

Some people just won't let things go, sure Moyes could have turned things around given time and money, it is possible. We will never know obviously, but the way he was unable to sign players like Bale and other top level guys like him was they probably looked at him and thought, no, he isn't a man United manager, not going down that road.
I read a piece by Jim Leighton recently, saying that if SAF joined the WhatsApp group he is in for ex Aberdeen playes and staff, he would leave immediately. He still blames Ferguson for ruining his career, nearly thirty years on.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46411576

 

[Josep Dowling]

His opinion on this matter is as bad as his beard.

 

[stevoc]

Feck me you're hard work, you're the one who keeps bringing Xmas up, and if you can't tell the difference between sacking somebody with the ink still wet on a 6 year contract after only 4 months, sacking somebody in his third season who had been trying to get himself sacked for nearly a year, and a third guy who was in his 5th season and had the team in 19th place in the League at the time of his sacking I really can't help you.

The difference is irrelevant though mate, if they're failing they're failing the length of time they've been at the club is largely irrelevant. Unless they've been at the club for 5-10+ years and brought loads of success. I brought up sacking him before Xmas because we didn't when every other top club would have, so as i said he already got more time than he should have.

Yes Mourinho and van Gaal did win trophies but compared to David Moyes they were allowed to shop at Harrods whilst Moyes shopped literately at the corner shop, and why should David Moyes get special treatment, oh I don't know, maybe because he unlike the other two was replacing one of the greatest Managers of all time who had been in office for 27 years and having the obvious problems that whoever replaced him would have.

Same money was available to Moyes but he didn't prepare for the transfer window properly instead taking a 6 week holiday. And so had no realistic targets in place to sign and then he dithered too long on those unrealistic targets.

So because the manager he replaced was the greatest of all time they should have let Moyes fail for longer. Makes no sense to me mate to be honest.

How could it have got worse, seriously, surely if we'd finished 8th, 9th or lower, and we might have done if Ryan Giggs had come in earlier, it would've been worse than finishing 7th, no, and why you're mentioning points and being safe from relegation is beyond me.

I mention it because thats the only way the season could have got worse. Theres no difference to finishing 7th or 17th, no European football and you don't get relegated. Slight difference in prize money is about it.

I'm not arguing against my own point at all, this for the record is what I said: As i've said previously if he'd been given a 3 year contract and it was written in said contract that top four was the bare-minimum than fair enough, sack him, but because we gave him a 6 year contract it suggested the club felt, despite being reigning Champions, we needed a major overhaul of the squad, certainly the defence anyway(5 years on we still do) and would cut him some slack in his first year at least if we missed out on top four.

Mate you seem to be missing the point here and contradicting yourself. The club put a minimum performance clause in his contract for a reason and one which Moyes signed willingly. The performance clause was for each and every single season, in the first season Moyes failed to meet that bare minimum requirement. So he got sacked as he and the club agreed that he would do in the event of him not qualifying for the CL. In that scenario how many years there were left on his contract to run was irrelevant, he could have had a 3, 6, 10 or 20 year contract and still been rightfully sacked.

Do you think they just put that clause in for a laugh?

You're stretching it a bit with Taibi, he was brought in as cover(at some expense granted) for Bosnich and Rai van der Gouw who were both injured at the time, but he was never brought in to be a replacement for Big Pete, and yeah we took a hit on him when we sold him 20 months later, but selling him back to Italy we were always going to. And finally(a dark room awaits me), if SAF could have got Bosnich out the door sooner he would've done, the guy was taking the piss.

Thats actually not right mate we sold him to Reggina in July 2000. He was bought to be first choice or at least to compete with Bosnich to be 1st choice. Because as you point out and is fairly well known Ferguson didn't fancy Bosnich who was more a Martin Edwards signing. So bought in August, plays 4 games shipped back to Italy on loan in January and permanent in July. Less than a year, thats a perfect example of Ferguson's ruthlessness back then.

 

[meninred]

i am surprised he is not that of a good pundit.

 

[Keefy18]

Absolutely embarrassing sentiments form Big Pete.

He should never of got the job and from all the reports since we wanted anyone but him. Klopp refused the job, Fergie met Pep and things were lost in translation apparently so he never was made an offer.

He ripped the heart out of the club on his first day by sacking all the back room staff and it was only ever going to get worse from there. Personally I wanted rid of him completely by Oct of that year after our 1-0 loss at home to Everton.

What is it with ex United players and punditry lately... Pete and Ince are coming out with some mind boggling statements.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Big Pete needs to shout at himself like he shouted at defenders to set his thoughts straight.

 

[GBBQ]

Moyes had lost the dressing room, there was no coming back from it. He aged visibly during his stint and was a ghost of a man by the end.

In general managers should be given time to put their project in place, in the case of Moyes it was a mercy killing.

 

[RG 11]

Did he feck alienate most of the senior players, some, and we all know who they were started taking liberties, and undermined the Manager, as if he he didn't have enough on his plate.

Way to cherry pick a single point from my post and ignore everything else.

Most of the everton players came out in the press saying negative things about him. The very same players who played for him for a long period of time. Also it's a sign of a bad manager if players start undermining you. It's not like Moyes did anything revolutionary to solve it either. He kept playing the same players instead of binning them off if they were undermining him.

Give up mate. His entire managerial career shows he's an average manager who may do well when everything goes right for him but that's seldom the case in the real world. We would have become proper mid table if that clown was here for 6 years.

 

[RG 11]

Feck me you're hard work, you're the one who keeps bringing Xmas up, and if you can't tell the difference between sacking somebody with the ink still wet on a 6 year contract after only 4 months, sacking somebody in his third season who had been trying to get himself sacked for nearly a year, and a third guy who was in his 5th season and had the team in 19th place in the League at the time of his sacking I really can't help you.

Yes Mourinho and van Gaal did win trophies but compared to David Moyes they were allowed to shop at Harrods whilst Moyes shopped literately at the corner shop, and why should David Moyes get special treatment, oh I don't know, maybe because he unlike the other two was replacing one of the greatest Managers of all time who had been in office for 27 years and having the obvious problems that whoever replaced him would have.

How could it have got worse, seriously, surely if we'd finished 8th, 9th or lower, and we might have done if Ryan Giggs had come in earlier, it would've been worse than finishing 7th, no, and why you're mentioning points and being safe from relegation is beyond me.

I'm not arguing against my own point at all, this for the record is what I said: As i've said previously if he'd been given a 3 year contract and it was written in said contract that top four was the bare-minimum than fair enough, sack him, but because we gave him a 6 year contract it suggested the club felt, despite being reigning Champions, we needed a major overhaul of the squad, certainly the defence anyway(5 years on we still do) and would cut him some slack in his first year at least if we missed out on top four.

You're stretching it a bit with Taibi, he was brought in as cover(at some expense granted) for Bosnich and Rai van der Gouw who were both injured at the time, but he was never brought in to be a replacement for Big Pete, and yeah we took a hit on him when we sold him 20 months later, but selling him back to Italy we were always going to. And finally(a dark room awaits me), if SAF could have got Bosnich out the door sooner he would've done, the guy was taking the piss.

Regarding the bolded bit: don't think the club ever felt that considering he had a top 4 minimum clause in his contract. Most on here at the time accepted we won't challenge for the title but would most definitely make top 4 with the quality we had. Stop projecting your opinion as a fact.

And he didn't just miss out on top 4. Your point would hold more weight if we were at least challenging for top 4. We finished 15 points away from top 4. That's simply not acceptable.

 

[shamans]

Or maybe, just maybe, he has played at the highest level and knows a thing or two about football?

 

[sunama]

Had Moyes been given another year it would have been better than him being sacked and LvG being brought in instead as Moyes would have had learned a ton what he did wrong and built on that.

My friend.
WTF!!!

Moyes should've been sacked in August. Then in Sept. Then Oct. He is/was dreadful.
He should never have been given the job and I doubt any sane football fan would argue otherwise. His level is a team right at the bottom of the league table.
He must've thought that he'd won the lottery, 10 times over, when Fergie told him that he was going to get the job.

 

[Class of 63]

The difference is irrelevant though mate, if they're failing they're failing the length of time they've been at the club is largely irrelevant. Unless they've been at the club for 5-10+ years and brought loads of success. I brought up sacking him before Xmas because we didn't when every other top club would have, so as i said he already got more time than he should have.

Same money was available to Moyes but he didn't prepare for the transfer window properly instead taking a 6 week holiday. And so had no realistic targets in place to sign and then he dithered too long on those unrealistic targets.

So because the manager he replaced was the greatest of all time they should have let Moyes fail for longer. Makes no sense to me mate to be honest.

I mention it because thats the only way the season could have got worse. Theres no difference to finishing 7th or 17th, no European football and you don't get relegated. Slight difference in prize money is about it.

Mate you seem to be missing the point here and contradicting yourself. The club put a minimum performance clause in his contract for a reason and one which Moyes signed willingly. The performance clause was for each and every single season, in the first season Moyes failed to meet that bare minimum requirement. So he got sacked as he and the club agreed that he would do in the event of him not qualifying for the CL. In that scenario how many years there were left on his contract to run was irrelevant, he could have had a 3, 6, 10 or 20 year contract and still been rightfully sacked.

Do you think they just put that clause in for a laugh?

Thats actually not right mate we sold him to Reggina in July 2000. He was bought to be first choice or at least to compete with Bosnich to be 1st choice. Because as you point out and is fairly well known Ferguson didn't fancy Bosnich who was more a Martin Edwards signing. So bought in August, plays 4 games shipped back to Italy on loan in January and permanent in July. Less than a year, thats a perfect example of Ferguson's ruthlessness back then.

• I've got my research team on it, and they leave no stone unturned trust me, but so far not one, not even one instance of a so called top club giving their Manager a six year contract and then binning him(or her)off after 4 months.
• Oh it's 6 weeks now is it, he didn't get the job till 1st July, and we were on tour in the 2nd week in July, and i'm pretty sure Moyes was with them
• It could have stayed the same, it could have got worse, or it could've got better. But no let's go with it the first two....
• If memory serves it was Ryan Giggs that fecked us up for European football, if we'd not lost to mighty Sunderland at home, ad/or drawn our last match of the season we'd have qualified for the Europa League.
• Must google contradict
• Be funny if they did wouldn't it, hilarious in fact.
• You could be right about Taibi, I thought it dragged on a lot longer, I know he spent most of the 1999/00 season on loan at Reggina but although they wanted him they couldn't afford him, and remember one of the bigger teams(Roma or Torino)tried to sign him on the cheap but United told them to sod off and so Taibi started the next season back at United. Think Reggina newbies in Serie A smashed their transfer record to sign him.

 

[Class of 63]

Absolutely embarrassing sentiments form Big Pete.

He should never of got the job and from all the reports since we wanted anyone but him. Klopp refused the job, Fergie met Pep and things were lost in translation apparently so he never was made an offer.

He ripped the heart out of the club on his first day by sacking all the back room staff and it was only ever going to get worse from there. Personally I wanted rid of him completely by Oct of that year after our 1-0 loss at home to Everton.

What is it with ex United players and punditry lately... Pete and Ince are coming out with some mind boggling statements.

You spoilt little Princess

 

[Class of 63]

Way to cherry pick a single point from my post and ignore everything else.

Most of the everton players came out in the press saying negative things about him. The very same players who played for him for a long period of time. Also it's a sign of a bad manager if players start undermining you. It's not like Moyes did anything revolutionary to solve it either. He kept playing the same players instead of binning them off if they were undermining him.

Give up mate. His entire managerial career shows he's an average manager who may do well when everything goes right for him but that's seldom the case in the real world. We would have become proper mid table if that clown was here for 6 years.

There wasn't anything else worthy of picking up on as unlike yourself I don't waste too much time noting, or caring how other clubs do season to season, but as you brought it to my attention, there was always a good chance that the new Manager(Martinez ?)taking over a well-drilled experienced Premier League team minus only one player(whose name escapes me, think he's playing in China now!!)and able to add James McCarthy(for decent money, for Everton), and bring Gareth Barry, some geezer called Lukaku, and Deulofeu in on loan they were going to do well.....

Apart from Sheedy, great player but what the feck has he achieved in the game since he retired, criticising(sp) Moyes I haven't seen much else coming out of Everton, or maybe I didn't pay much attention because I didn't really care, and that(with Sheedy) was more to do with him(Moyes) ignoring advice(apparently)about young player not getting their chance with the first team.

What was Moyes supposed to do, the players that gave him most grief were binned the next year....

And no i'm not giving up mate, as a United fan for nearly 50 years now I was fecking embarrassed at how the club handled the David Moyes, and LvG sackings, whether getting rid of them was the right thing to do or not.

 

[Class of 63]

Regarding the bolded bit: don't think the club ever felt that considering he had a top 4 minimum clause in his contract. Most on here at the time accepted we won't challenge for the title but would most definitely make top 4 with the quality we had. Stop projecting your opinion as a fact.

And he didn't just miss out on top 4. Your point would hold more weight if we were at least challenging for top 4. We finished 15 points away from top 4. That's simply not acceptable.

I'm not even sure what that means but then i'm not the sharpest tool in the box

The club could, maybe should have revalidated(or whatever the word is, see above) the top four situation once it became obvious it wasn't going to be plain sailing, but maybe that's just me, alone, a solitary voice, determined not to be like the spoilt people.....

 

[stevoc]

Bullet points love it

I've got my research team on it, and they leave no stone unturned trust me, but so far not one, not even one instance of a so called top club giving their Manager a six year contract and then binning him(or her)off after 4 months.

You're still hung up on the 6 year contract mate, it was a PR stunt obviously as it didn't save him from the sack.

No other club with any sense would be stupid enough to give a manager anything more than a 3-4 year deal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/19747531

Oh it's 6 weeks now is it, he didn't get the job till 1st July, and we were on tour in the 2nd week in July, and i'm pretty sure Moyes was with them

Moyes was appointed on the 9th of May 2013, Mourinho was appointed on the 27th of May 2016. Jose didn't ''officially'' take over until July 1st either but it didn't stop him working on Transfers before then. Note the dates.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36480527
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36689575
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36726880

Thats what Moyes should have been working on instead of his tan, especially not with his complexion.

Spoiler: Dithering Dave

If memory serves it was Ryan Giggs that fecked us up for European football, if we'd not lost to mighty Sunderland at home, ad/or drawn our last match of the season we'd have qualified for the Europa League.

So it's Giggs fault we didn't qualify for Europe because he managed us for 4 games, and not the guy who was in charge for the previous 34 games? Come on mate you're better than that.

Must google contradict

You do that, Google being evasive too

Be funny if they did wouldn't it, hilarious in fact.

It would be but i don't imagine these business types have much of a sense of humour when it comes to these multi million pound contracts. They take that shit seriously, 48 hours after the Everton defeat Moyes locker and office were cleared out and he was on his way.

You could be right about Taibi, I thought it dragged on a lot longer, I know he spent most of the 1999/00 season on loan at Reggina but although they wanted him they couldn't afford him, and remember one of the bigger teams(Roma or Torino)tried to sign him on the cheap but United told them to sod off and so Taibi started the next season back at United. Think Reggina newbies in Serie A smashed their transfer record to sign him.

Some things never change, tight bastards.

 

[RG 11]

There wasn't anything else worthy of picking up on as unlike yourself I don't waste too much time noting, or caring how other clubs do season to season, but as you brought it to my attention, there was always a good chance that the new Manager(Martinez ?)taking over a well-drilled experienced Premier League team minus only one player(whose name escapes me, think he's playing in China now!!)and able to add James McCarthy(for decent money, for Everton), and bring Gareth Barry, some geezer called Lukaku, and Deulofeu in on loan they were going to do well.....

Apart from Sheedy, great player but what the feck has he achieved in the game since he retired, criticising(sp) Moyes I haven't seen much else coming out of Everton, or maybe I didn't pay much attention because I didn't really care, and that(with Sheedy) was more to do with him(Moyes) ignoring advice(apparently)about young player not getting their chance with the first team.

What was Moyes supposed to do, the players that gave him most grief were binned the next year....

And no i'm not giving up mate, as a United fan for nearly 50 years now I was fecking embarrassed at how the club handled the David Moyes, and LvG sackings, whether getting rid of them was the right thing to do or not.

So Moyes gets credit for Martinez's success because his team was well drilled. But he doesn't get any of the blame for taking over reigning champions and giving us our worst finish in 25+ years or so?

Also I agree with your point about the manner of the sacking. Leaking it to the press before the manager even knew (in LVGs case) showed poor form. But I don't disagree with the sackings in all three cases.

And yes, once it was obvious that top 4 wasn't plain sailing, club should have put in work to get a director of football instead of throwing money at the problem. Woodward should get a lot of blame for that as well as mindlessly chasing star players without a plan.

 

[AlexUTD]

Moyes was the opposite what we need in a manager, main focus in training was defending and how to stop the other team while under Ferguson and Solskjaer focuses on attacking the other team and working hard.

Clearly the dane was a better keeper than he is a pundit.

 

[Class of 63]

Bullet points love it

You're still hung up on the 6 year contract mate, it was a PR stunt obviously as it didn't save him from the sack.

No other club with any sense would be stupid enough to give a manager anything more than a 3-4 year deal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/19747531

Moyes was appointed on the 9th of May 2013, Mourinho was appointed on the 27th of May 2016. Jose didn't ''officially'' take over until July 1st either but it didn't stop him working on Transfers before then. Note the dates.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36480527
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36689575
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36726880

Thats what Moyes should have been working on instead of his tan, especially not with his complexion.

Spoiler: Dithering Dave

So it's Giggs fault we didn't qualify for Europe because he managed us for 4 games, and not the guy who was in charge for the previous 34 games? Come on mate you're better than that.



You do that, Google being evasive too



It would be but i don't imagine these business types have much of a sense of humour when it comes to these multi million pound contracts. They take that shit seriously, 48 hours after the Everton defeat Moyes locker and office were cleared out and he was on his way.



Some things never change, tight bastards.

Bullet points are great mate, they're the future, that and less likely to get me sent to the naughty step for invading your box(or whoever else's box I entered previously), and highlighting my text for ease of read when I couldn't get out again.

That picture kills me, you just know he's thinking "i'm bloody sure I left my Camel around here somewhere", though why he should have a Camel at New Brighton beach is beyond me.

Look mate we will never agree on anything to do with Moyes or Fellaini, and i've lost the will to continue standing my corner, so I bid you farewell(thanks for a clean fight) and i'm off to the Matteo Darmian thread for a breather as I doubt i'll see you in there anytime soon. Adios Amigo

 

[Class of 63]

So Moyes gets credit for Martinez's success because his team was well drilled. But he doesn't get any of the blame for taking over reigning champions and giving us our worst finish in 25+ years or so?

Also I agree with your point about the manner of the sacking. Leaking it to the press before the manager even knew (in LVGs case) showed poor form. But I don't disagree with the sackings in all three cases.

And yes, once it was obvious that top 4 wasn't plain sailing, club should have put in work to get a director of football instead of throwing money at the problem. Woodward should get a lot of blame for that as well as mindlessly chasing star players without a plan.

Not suggesting Moyes should take the credit at all, but it was a damn sight easier for Martinez to equal, or better Moyes record at Everton with the squad mostly in their prime, and players(albeit loanees)he brought in, than Moyes getting close to what SAF achieved at United when half the squad(at least)was ready for the Travellers yard. Winning the League the previous season with that squad will probably go down as one of his greatest achievements.

There is no nice way to sack anybody, but at least the Manager get's his contract(or a fair chunk of it)paid up if he is, though i'm sure they could come to some understanding if the Managers were allowed to tender their resignations rather than being sacked. Better for the club not to be known as a sacking club as well. I know in most cases it's unrealistic, but hey.

It's too easy to blame Ed, we don't know what went on with transfers, we've only got the press's side of the story, and they've never, and i'm going back to the 70's missed an opportunity to print garbage when they sense there are issues, or problems ahead for the club.

 

[Snow]

My friend.
WTF!!!

Moyes should've been sacked in August. Then in Sept. Then Oct. He is/was dreadful.
He should never have been given the job and I doubt any sane football fan would argue otherwise. His level is a team right at the bottom of the league table.
He must've thought that he'd won the lottery, 10 times over, when Fergie told him that he was going to get the job.

Don't take comments like that out of context making it sound like it was my opinion. Have a read over again what I said. I was only trying to understand what Schmeichel meant by his comments.

 

[Ekeke]

If I could take some of LVG and Mourinho's time away and give Moyes another half a season to see how hes doing before getting rid, I would do so. He got short changed compared to the other 2 both in terms of finances and time.

That said I don't think we'd be talking about a premier league winning manager. At best he would have done as LVG and Mourinho did.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

Schmeichel can feck off

 

[Class of 63]

If I could take some of LVG and Mourinho's time away and give Moyes another half a season to see how hes doing before getting rid, I would do so. He got short changed compared to the other 2 both in terms of finances and time.

That said I don't think we'd be talking about a premier league winning manager. At best he would have done as LVG and Mourinho did.

Hallelujah.

It would have been the classier thing to give him till at least Christmas to see if with a full pre-season, a chance to weed out those that were harming the club for selfish reasons, and sign more players of his choice he could've turned it around.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Hallelujah.

It would have been the classier thing to give him till at least Christmas to see if with a full pre-season, a chance to weed out those that were harming the club for selfish reasons, and sign more players of his choice he could've turned it around.

“Classier”? No, it would have been a stubborn refusal to admit a mistake, leaving the club and its management open to further ridicule. I can’t prove a negative but, based on everyhing we know about Moyes at Everton, Real Sociedad, Sunderland and West Ham (as well as the disastrous 9 months at United), he was not going to transform into a title challenging manager, no matter how much money you make available to him and how much time you afford him. He’s just not at that level. There’s no shame in that (relatively speaking, he’s still better than a lot of managers) but he had no place managing the biggest club in England.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

There’s this weird line of thought that had Moyes stayed and was backed, he’d be able to bring in his own quality players, which flies against the actual facts. We got snubbed by Thiago Alcantara, Fabregas, Bale and (rumoured) Ronaldo that summer. Had it not been for Mourinho pushing Mata out there’d be no chance of us signing him as well, so in what universe does David bloody Moyes can persuade top echelon players to play for him rather than elite managers at similarly big clubs?

It’s just a bizarre hill to die on. He managed to finish an average 7th with a team that, wait for it, had the 7th largest wage bill in the league, never won a cup when the likes of Portsmouth/Wigan managed to and got a proud record of no away win against top 4 in 52 tries. That guy is the one who was going to bring us to the promised land?

 

[Class of 63]

“Classier”? No, it would have been a stubborn refusal to admit a mistake, leaving the club and its management open to further ridicule. I can’t prove a negative but, based on everyhing we know about Moyes at Everton, Real Sociedad, Sunderland and West Ham (as well as the disastrous 9 months at United), he was not going to transform into a title challenging manager, no matter how much money you make available to him and how much time you afford him. He’s just not at that level. There’s no shame in that (relatively speaking, he’s still better than a lot of managers) but he had no place managing the biggest club in England.

Did you think when SAF finished 11th in his 2nd full season, or 13th in his 3rd full season(after signing Gary Pallister, Paul Ince, Neil Webb and Danny Wallace) he should have been given more time ?

 

[Keefy18]

You spoilt little Princess

Just went back and had a look at that season, result was right but it was on 4th Dec 2013.

Far from spoiled, it was realistic.

He was never the right appointment ever, but being as he was made manager he deserved a shot. Thing is on day 1 he shot himself in the foot and put the club on the road to ruin. Everything that followed was a disaster and you can say December was far too early but in reality we'd already had some absolutely horrendous results.

A bore draw with Chelsea, Lost to Liverpool, smashed 4-1 by City, lost at home to WBA for the first time in I think it was 30 years approx, Drew at home with Southampton and drew with Cardiff.

It was an absolute horror show, only got worse after those games as well cause right after that game we lost at home to Newcastle as well!

Arguably one of footballs worst decisions at a top European club.

 

[Keefy18]

Did you think when SAF finished 11th in his 2nd full season, or 13th in his 3rd full season(after signing Gary Pallister, Paul Ince, Neil Webb and Danny Wallace) he should have been given more time ?

You're actually comparing Moyes to Ferguson??

Ferguson who broke the dominance of the Old Firm and was successful with Aberdeen. Ferguson won 11 trophies in Scotland, What in the blue hell had Moyes done?

The only comparison with the 2 is they are both Scottish and shout a lot.

The end.

Absolutely disgusting to disparage Feruson's name by comparing Moyes in anyway to him.

 

[matt10000]

Why are some of our legends so clueless at times ? Whether it's him, Keane, Neville, at times they say some ridiculous stuff

Have you ever thought that maybe they are not clueless? I think it is a bit arrogant to judge that Keane, Neville, Schmeichel who have played at the very highest level of football, all for most of their careers, at one of the biggest (if not biggest) football club in the world for the most successful football manager in history and have won countless trophies are clueless. I may be wrong and maybe you have played at the top level of football and won countless trophies...

 

[Ibrahimorich]

The only thing I regret about the Moyes 'era' is that it happened.

 

[Class of 63]

Just went back and had a look at that season, result was right but it was on 4th Dec 2013.

Far from spoiled, it was realistic.

He was never the right appointment ever, but being as he was made manager he deserved a shot. Thing is on day 1 he shot himself in the foot and put the club on the road to ruin. Everything that followed was a disaster and you can say December was far too early but in reality we'd already had some absolutely horrendous results.

A bore draw with Chelsea, Lost to Liverpool, smashed 4-1 by City, lost at home to WBA for the first time in I think it was 30 years approx, Drew at home with Southampton and drew with Cardiff.

It was an absolute horror show, only got worse after those games as well cause right after that game we lost at home to Newcastle as well!

Arguably one of footballs worst decisions at a top European club.

And you think giving him 4 months is giving him a shot, feck me sideways he probably hadn't even found the best crapper in the building by then

A bore draw with Chelsea is a better result than we often got against them with SAF in charge, and i'm sure you remember Torres giving Vidic the runaround for a few season as the micks often beat us home and away, and didn't City dick us 1-6 on our own patch when we were going for the title, or did I just imagine that ?

Yep we did lose to quite a few teams that hadn't won at Old Trafford for yonks, if at all, but it was better to get them all out of the way in one poor season because eventually they were all going to win there, or would you rather one or two of them did it the following season(s) when we may have been going for the Title ?

 

[Class of 63]

You're actually comparing Moyes to Ferguson??

Ferguson who broke the dominance of the Old Firm and was successful with Aberdeen. Ferguson won 11 trophies in Scotland, What in the blue hell had Moyes done?

The only comparison with the 2 is they are both Scottish and shout a lot.

The end.

Absolutely disgusting to disparage Feruson's name by comparing Moyes in anyway to him.

I was asking you a stand alone question, I didn't mention Moyes

ps. Thanks for the SAF history lesson

 

[Keefy18]

And you think giving him 4 months is giving him a shot, feck me sideways he probably hadn't even found the best crapper in the building by then

A bore draw with Chelsea is a better result than we often got against them with SAF in charge, and i'm sure you remember Torres giving Vidic the runaround for a few season as the micks often beat us home and away, and didn't City dick us 1-6 on our own patch when we were going for the title, or did I just imagine that ?

Yep we did lose to quite a few teams that hadn't won at Old Trafford for yonks, if at all, but it was better to get them all out of the way in one poor season because eventually they were all going to win there, or would you rather one or two of them did it the following season(s) when we may have been going for the Title ?

4 months was too much, he should never of been given the job anyway.

Sacking the backroom staff that made the club successful, he was on the road to ruin immediately.

The thing you are missing with all those results is, its the accumulation of them. It's not any one individual result but the collective. Ferguson had his freak results, like Southampton smashing us 6-3 at the Dell but they were few and far between. City 6-1 was exaggerated due to an early red, the game was 2-1 at that point and we just imploded and the scoreline flattered City.

With Moyes we routinely lost to the weaker sides and got smashed by other big teams too.

I mean, wasn't it the first season in PL history where we lost all 4 games to both City and Liverpool? Sackable offence in itself.

There was nothing to be better about it happening in a season, it shouldn't of happened at all and no we were never going to even challenge for a league with Moyes in any year!

Can't believe anyone could even attempt to defend the horror show that was Moyes led United.