This is roughly my take on it. Your last sentence sums it up well.
[Poll] Who was your midfielder of the season?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Eh ?
Polls are meant to be subjective to a certain degree, and people will inevitably have differing opinions by and large - unless there's one player is head and shoulders above the others. Not - result isn't going the way I hoped/ wished it would = stupid result and blinkered people are voting on appeal. How exactly did Young and Fellaini have categorically better seasons that Ander ? And please don't drum up the tired "crucial point winning goals" argument either like a couple others have already. Because, as an example :
Ander's crucial point-winning goals :
Goal vs Swansea resulted in a 2-1 win. So 2 additional points.
Goals vs Aston Villa resulted in a 3-1 win. So 2 additional points.
Goal vs Arsenal resulted in a 1-1 draw. So 1 additional point.
vs
Fellaini's crucial point winning goals :
Goal vs West Brom resulted in a 2-2 draw. So 1 additional point.
Goal vs Stoke resulted in a 2-1 win. So 2 additional point.
Goal vs Crystal Palace resulted in a 2-1 win. So 2 additional point.
On the whole it kind of evens out, despite the overriding narrative of one player determining our results to a greater degree, and clinching important points. Again, how did Young and Fellaini definitively contribute more (without a whole lot of room for argument) than Ander as you opined ?
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Ok well this post is a bit hypocritical....
But in all seriousness, yes polls are subjective but given the fact that Ander is leading by over 50% is stupid, that's my opinion on it. As you say it's all opinion and my opinion is Herrera has had some very good games for us but he's also had a lot of poor games for us, over the course of the season but Fellaini and Young were better and rarely had a poor game.
Herrera is the only outfield player who decided to turn up for our last 6 games of the season, his form was very good and what you expect for his price tag, very happy with him.
But Carrick was just so important for our success this season, our win rate without him is actually disgusting.
But Carrick was just so important for our success this season, our win rate without him is actually disgusting.
I like Herrera, but Swansea beat United twice this season in spite of Herrera's goal in South Wales.
Yep, that's what I thought. Keep posting the green emoticons and calling the poll results stupid, instead of further building upon your argument and showing exactly why the likes of Young or Fellaini were categorically better than Ander.Ok well this post is a bit hypocritical....
But in all seriousness, yes polls are subjective but given the fact that Ander is leading by over 50% is stupid, that's my opinion on it. As you say it's all opinion and my opinion is Herrera has had some very good games for us but he's also had a lot of poor games for us, over the course of the season but Fellaini and Young were better and rarely had a poor game.
As for Herrera having a 'lot' of poor games, while Fellaini 'rarely' had any - I think you should re-watch the games vs Everton at Old Trafford, vs Southampton at Old Trafford, vs Everton at Goodison Park, vs Chelsea at Stamford Bridge, vs West Brom at Old Trafford, vs Hull at Old Trafford among others before making such grand proclamations in favor of one player over the other.
Is Ander supposed to be largely responsible for either of the losses ? Does the fact that United lost despite him scoring in a singular game vs Swansea in February really diminish his overall effectiveness or the level of his performances to a large degree ?
No, but you talk about point winning goals and site Herrera's goal in a 2-1 United defeat.
Ah.. Duly noted. Thanks !
Ps : Something else to be noted is that Juan Mata probably scored the most crucial goals for us this season in the league, yet doesn't get an adequate level of recognition for that.
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People can say Young all they want, but the thing about Young is that his actions are individual (and unfortunately not often leading to a successful deserved result ) or only benefit a certain player.
Herrera simply makes the entire midfield work.
Herrera simply makes the entire midfield work.
You just said "don't drum up the tired "crucial point winning goals" argument" and then went on to argue how Herrera won as many, albeit by making up results that never happened mind. Not that I think point winning goals should count towards someone having a better season over someone else!
Further building on my argument? There's nothing to build on, it comes down to opinion and I've given my reasons why, you havent given yours, so why don't you "build on your argument"? All you've done is go on about point winning goals Herrera has scored, something you didn't want me to drum on about!
The only possible way to build on the argument for any player to be the best is to bring up stats but if we're going to do that then di Maria should have been voted the best
Ok seen as you like to make stuff up to help your argument I had a look at the M.E.N ratings for these games
Vs Everton (H) Herrera N/A....Fellaini 6 ( came on after 80 mins!!)
Vs Southampton - Herrera 5....Fellaini 6 (both players came off the bench, Fellaini only playing 18 mins so I dont know why you included this game.)
Vs Everton (A) Herrera 7...Fellaini 6
Vs Chelsea - Herrera 8...Fellaini 7 (Jose set up to specifically mark Fellaini out of the game, says a lot)
Vs West Brom - Herrera 5...Fellaini 6
Vs Hull - Herrera 8...Fellaini 6
So in these games Herrera rated better in 3 and Fellaini in 2, and these where games you hand picked out for your argument! One of these games was a game Mourinho chose to set up specifically to keep Fellaini quiet my getting Zouma to man mark him mainly because of how much trouble Fellaini was causing other teams. Another game you chose for some bizarre reason is v Everton where he played 10 mins and also v Southampton where he played only 18!
M.E.N player ratings ? Ok then.
It is probably that at the back of peoples minds, Herrera is the future of the midfield. Where in the threads about who we should buy Michael is replaced completely by another player. That might be clouding peoples judgement.
Fellaini for me. Our tumescent football was giving decent result, mainly because of him.
Herrera for me. Come in and shown hes a proper Man United player for the future. Blind and Mata too.
Carrick has obviously been very good too but not one for the future and he is on the decline now.
Young has shown he is a solid backup and Fellaini that hes a good Plan B.
Rooney is not cut out for midfield, ADM needs to get settled again and Januzaj needs to step it up.
Carrick has obviously been very good too but not one for the future and he is on the decline now.
Young has shown he is a solid backup and Fellaini that hes a good Plan B.
Rooney is not cut out for midfield, ADM needs to get settled again and Januzaj needs to step it up.
Herrera
Carrick
Young
In that order for me, but only just. Fellaini and Mata did well. I was particularly surprised by Fellaini.
Carrick
Young
In that order for me, but only just. Fellaini and Mata did well. I was particularly surprised by Fellaini.
Carrick.
Do people no see that a season is 38+ games.. herrera couldnt get in the side whether for injury, form or fitness until February. Carrick will be lucky if he mad 20 games last season. Young and fellaini missed a few games at the start of the season but they were there the majority of the season battling for their careers and proved everyone wrong...
Someone highlighted that youngs performances was down to his individuality?? This is an individual vote..
Certainly carrick was our most important all season when he wasnt there he was missed.. but he missed too much to be considered.. Herrera was fantastic from the yeovil fa cup tie before that he showed glimpses without any consistency.
Has to be young easily..
Someone highlighted that youngs performances was down to his individuality?? This is an individual vote..
Certainly carrick was our most important all season when he wasnt there he was missed.. but he missed too much to be considered.. Herrera was fantastic from the yeovil fa cup tie before that he showed glimpses without any consistency.
Has to be young easily..
I don't think Young was actually that good, objectively. He improved a huge amount, but (imo) he went from being "not good enough for the club" to "decent squad player", nothing more. Herrera was consistently good with a few flashes of brilliance, Carrick was just consistently good. According to the Caf player ratings, Hererra and Carrick both got 6.6 (just behind DDG), Young got 6.4, Blind 6.3, Mata 6.2, Fellaini 6.1. Sounds about right to me.
Young for most consistent performances. Carrick for importance to the team. Herrera.. Because he was a joy to watch. Voted Herrera but Carrick possibly edges it over Young, then Herrera third.
Lets put it this way, My United top next year will have the number 21 on the back
I think every area was very clear this season. Our best defender Smalling, our best midfielder Ander and our best striker Rooney
@Invictus for me it comes down to which player was the most effective. I use that word very deliberately - its not about who is the 'better' player, but rather how effective they have been, throughout the season. For me, that means Young, then Carrick, then Fellaini/Herrera.
Herrera had a very strong end to the season, so it is natural that this is fresh in peoples minds, whereas earlier in the season he was sitting on the bench a lot, and turned in some fairly average performances as well (you can argue that this was during times when the entire team played poorly, but it was also during this time that Fellaini enjoyed some of his best form). Ultimately, Herrera is in many ways the midfielder we have been crying out for for the last 5 years or so - so again, it is natural that this influences peoples voting and opinions. It has been a very common trend this season on the caf to overrate Herrera and Mata, because they represent that beautiful Spanish football that we envy, and seem such lovely, likeable blokes.
For much of the season however, it was our left flank, with the triangle of Young/Fellaini/Blind, which was by far our most threatening avenue of attack. This resulted in teams setting out to man mark Fellaini in order to limit his influence on the game (Chelsea and subsequent matches). Whether this is reflected in the statistics I cannot say as I haven't looked them up, but it was clear (and reflected in the Match Day threads) that it was in that left channel that we were having the most success by far. Herrera and Mata played a lot of aesthetically pleasing football, and you can argue that Valencia's limitations hindered their success on that flank, but I cant honestly remember many significant goals that were created from the right hand side. It was quite noticeable when we were playing some great football just after Christmas, that it was the triangle I mentioned earlier which was integral to it.
Ultimately as you have said, it is all opinion. I am not surprised in the slightest to see Herrera winning in the poll, but I am a bit surprised at just how big of a majority he has. Herrera only played ~400 minutes more than Carrick this season, so I find it a bit hypocritical when people say that they would vote for Carrick but he didnt play enough, so have instead voted for Herrera.
Herrera had a very strong end to the season, so it is natural that this is fresh in peoples minds, whereas earlier in the season he was sitting on the bench a lot, and turned in some fairly average performances as well (you can argue that this was during times when the entire team played poorly, but it was also during this time that Fellaini enjoyed some of his best form). Ultimately, Herrera is in many ways the midfielder we have been crying out for for the last 5 years or so - so again, it is natural that this influences peoples voting and opinions. It has been a very common trend this season on the caf to overrate Herrera and Mata, because they represent that beautiful Spanish football that we envy, and seem such lovely, likeable blokes.
For much of the season however, it was our left flank, with the triangle of Young/Fellaini/Blind, which was by far our most threatening avenue of attack. This resulted in teams setting out to man mark Fellaini in order to limit his influence on the game (Chelsea and subsequent matches). Whether this is reflected in the statistics I cannot say as I haven't looked them up, but it was clear (and reflected in the Match Day threads) that it was in that left channel that we were having the most success by far. Herrera and Mata played a lot of aesthetically pleasing football, and you can argue that Valencia's limitations hindered their success on that flank, but I cant honestly remember many significant goals that were created from the right hand side. It was quite noticeable when we were playing some great football just after Christmas, that it was the triangle I mentioned earlier which was integral to it.
Ultimately as you have said, it is all opinion. I am not surprised in the slightest to see Herrera winning in the poll, but I am a bit surprised at just how big of a majority he has. Herrera only played ~400 minutes more than Carrick this season, so I find it a bit hypocritical when people say that they would vote for Carrick but he didnt play enough, so have instead voted for Herrera.
Actually Herrera (1869) played more minutes than Fellaini (1831) and only a couple of games less than Young (2068)
Im actually surprised by how many votes Young is getting, he was fine but nothing special for most of the year - he did then have a strong end to the season so I suppose people remember that more than form from last year. I dont really consider him a 'midfielder' anyway, at the start of the season he was part of the defence and at the end he was part of the attack.
Carrick. Balanced the side and without him we were pretty crap.
Most of the ones who I consider to have played the best didn't play a full season. Herrera and Carrick were my top two performers, but I gave it Blind as I thought he played more often and performed. We seemed to click when Carrick was available and the more Herrera played, once in the team, the better he got. Fellaini did well also eventually (scary saying that!). Ah I forgot Young - he played really well for most games.
Rooney. No contest really.
lol
lol
I went with Herrera. He provided goals from central midfield, and that is something we've not had for ages. It's very close between Herrera, Carrick, Fellaini and Young and all have performed. When Mata started playing wide right, he was very good too. Herrera was my favourite player to watch though. Great in possession, makes quick decisions, nearly all of his goals were great finishes, a very complete player.
Great response! Whats wrong with M.E.N ratings? would you rather I chose Daily Mail?
I thought our 'best' midfielder of the season was Carrick in that everytime he played we looked assured, our play seemed to have better tempo, more control to it, and we just overall looked better and he was instrumental in that. However, I can understand why some would go for Herrera, he showed what's been lacking in our midfield for ages, he can bring verticality to the game, knows how to get stuck in, can score important goals... Also, 'midfielder of the season' might suggest you'd want someone who has played a big amount of games, which is why some might have reservations about picking Carrick.
I voted for Carrick, cos even being sidelined I thought he was our most instrumental midfielder, but Ander is a close second in my mind. And I hope next year he'll have overtook Michael!
I voted for Carrick, cos even being sidelined I thought he was our most instrumental midfielder, but Ander is a close second in my mind. And I hope next year he'll have overtook Michael!
1. Well, Carrick in his limited time was by far the most influential... alas he was out over 1/2 the year.
2. Fellaini did well, showing why we purchased the guy.. finally and shutting up some haters along the way, but was it enough to hands down win this? not for me.
3. Blind.. started out very well, and played the most beween the candidates, but as the season went on some flaws in his game were further highlighted, and by the last few games it looked as if he were running on an empty gas tank.
4. Herrera, missed half the season through LvG's insistance to play 2 forwards, impressed in over the last 1/3rd, for a debut season in another league you have to commned his efforts, but did he play enough to win this hands down?
I can't even pick between that lot, even sat thinking about it for 10minutes.
2. Fellaini did well, showing why we purchased the guy.. finally and shutting up some haters along the way, but was it enough to hands down win this? not for me.
3. Blind.. started out very well, and played the most beween the candidates, but as the season went on some flaws in his game were further highlighted, and by the last few games it looked as if he were running on an empty gas tank.
4. Herrera, missed half the season through LvG's insistance to play 2 forwards, impressed in over the last 1/3rd, for a debut season in another league you have to commned his efforts, but did he play enough to win this hands down?
I can't even pick between that lot, even sat thinking about it for 10minutes.
Herrara was basura for most of the first half of the season. Carrick was great when he played, but he was injured a lot. Fellaini was very good, but his top level didn't reach the top level of the aforementioned. I think Young takes it here.
Easy one for me. While Herrera and Fellaini had some stand out performances, we could and did win games without them. Carrick, on the other hand.....
Flabbergasted that anyone could vote for anyone other than Carrick. He's always been under-appreciated but the results of this poll are mental. The results with/without him speak for themselves and I can say, with absolute certainty, we'd have finished higher up the table if he'd played as many minutes as the bloke who got over twice as many votes as him.
Hererra was our best new signing, one of our best players and probably the only player to make me feel optimistic about our future during a real shit-house of a season. But our best midfielder? 'Kin hell. This place...
Hererra was our best new signing, one of our best players and probably the only player to make me feel optimistic about our future during a real shit-house of a season. But our best midfielder? 'Kin hell. This place...
How is Herrera this far in front? Amazing how highly rated he is here.
I was split between Ander and Carrick. Just by virtue of injuries I went for Herrera which probably isn't right but at the same time I don't think you can discredit his impact in big games in the second half of the season. Carrick was also class whenever he played of course.
Props to Young and Fellaini for improving if we consider them midfielders, but from August to May all things considered they weren't overly impressive. Same with Mata, absolute gem at times but taking into account the early months of the season he didn't do enough.
Carrick's importance is obvious, but I think we'd have struggled without Herrera too...going forward at least, less so when it comes to game control.
Props to Young and Fellaini for improving if we consider them midfielders, but from August to May all things considered they weren't overly impressive. Same with Mata, absolute gem at times but taking into account the early months of the season he didn't do enough.
Carrick's importance is obvious, but I think we'd have struggled without Herrera too...going forward at least, less so when it comes to game control.
we debated this point on the last podcast and basically we all agreed that while Carrick is undoubtedly our most important outfield player, he just didnt play enough minutes this season to warrant winning any award.
and anyway everyone will have their own criteria of what constitues being the 'best' so it is a bit silly for people to be so shocked that people might not vote the same way as them.
I think most people would agree with you but I think the reason a lot of people didn't pick him was because of the amount of games.
Herrera had a very impressive season, and will be even better next year I imagine, but Carrick for me.
for someone like Carrick to be appreciated, either he has to be absent or he has to be mostly a single-man show when he plays. If he had played more during the season, there would be a less appreciative attitude around
1461 in the league for Carrick vs 1874 for Herrera. Plus Herrera got a lot of those minutes off the bench. Carrick started 16 league games to Hererra's 19.
I'm not shocked about people having different opinions. I'm shocked at the size of the majority for Hererra. As I said above, he was arguably the only shining light in a pretty crappy season but I think that's distorting memories of a player who had the ups and downs you'd usually expect from a foreign player on his debut season. Especially compared to the conistency of performance and influence that Carrick exerted on the game every time he played.