[The Taurean]

Ended up as a comfortable victory but feck me, that first half-and-a-bit was some of the most difficult viewing I have had as a United fan in years. Mostly because we actually have/had the personnel to play some great football but LVG seemed intent on deliberately handicapping us for some reason.

Once again the transformation when we switched from 3 at the back was immediately apparent. I think some difficult decisions need to be made with regard to the group of RVP, Falcao, Rooney, ADM and Mata. We cannot field them all at the same time, every time we have tried it we have looked rubbish due to not having a proper midfielder. Fellaini, Herrera, Blind and Carrick are our best midfielders and these are therefore the ones we need to be playing in midfield.

At this point I would be quite happy to see RVP, Falcao and Mata dropped. The best players doesnt always equal the best team.

Yep. We are just handicapping ourselves.

 

[Insanity]

Who would have thought players in the right position, tempo, quick passing, pace and high pressing would make us more exciting.

Loved Wilson's cameo. 4231 with him, Januzaj, Rooney and Di Maria would be

 

[ChaddyP]

@ people thinking its the end of 352 .


Van Gaal has set out clearly to make us miserable with playing a system that sucks the joy out of playing football. He has us playing brilliant 442 footballl but keeps it only to him self mostly in training, but sometimes decides to taunt us with what we could be playing just to feck with us. Next week again we will moan and groan at a line up that can play 442 but will inevitably have square pegs in round holes because the man enjoys seeing the caf in meltdown mode. That's not a note pad he is using , that's actually a tablet with him on the caf pressing refresh and watching us meltdown in front of his very eyes. That must be it. There is nothing else to explain why the man continues to do this to us. It's comical that we scored 2 minutes after a formation change that everyone and their dog saw was needed . Louis Van Gaal I loathe you. You have sucked the joy out of watching football and then shove back the joy right down my throat giving me hope for next week. But alas next week you will probably suck the joy again until we go a goal down . You bastard .

PS delighted that wilson got his goal. Falcao really needs to step up. Rojo looked good in his battles aswell. Away victory at last!

 

[JustAFan]

Also time for LVG to start publicly complain about reffing another stone cold penalty not given.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

352 and di Maria as an attacker/striker has to stop or else LVG will dig himself a deep hole.

 

[Speak]

Three ugly ugly points. But you take them and get on that bus home.

 

[WyoManU]

First half with our 3-5-2 was as useless as always. To the disbelief of everyone (full sarcasm) we did much better in the second half when we ditched it and went to a more favorable setup.

I am chapped for Fellaini. I'm not a huge fan of his, but the one thing he does have, even after bearing so much criticism and being tied with the Moyes debacle, is an absolute desire to win every ball and to make things happen. He got another crucial goal for us today and I couldn't be happier.

Also delighted for Wilson who shows why you need at least one of your strikers to have some pace up front. Great goal but also worked hard and almost gave Falcao a couple of goals after getting behind them, something neither Falcao or RVP can do.

DDG was man of the match, this game and for our entire season. Great to have him but you never want your keeper to have to save you every week.

Losing faith in LVG. Most of our squad is available for selection and he still plays Rooney in the midfield which he showed quite clearly today is not his best position. THought I heard one of the commentators compare him to Scholes in that position. Laughable that. The number of passes he gave away was shocking. Influences games much more as a striker and should only come into midfield when absolutely required. ADM is NOT a striker. If he plays him there ever again all faith will be gone. He needs to have space to run at defenses. Also too lightweight and not able to compete with big PL defenders.

Falcao? Not even close to worth the transfer fee and wages. Looks so slow. He lost an even foot race to Dunne today. Simply surreal. He also had two great chances and failed to take either. If you can't control the ball, can't take on or run past defenders and you can't take at least one of your two clean chances you are not worth that much money at that age. Bye bye.

Mata? Bye bye. I'd take the desire and drive of Fellaini any day for a player who so often goes missing and only occasionally gets involved with a piece of magic. Too little magic for the time in matches when he is invisible.

Our overall shape and defense was again vulnerable. If we had been playing the likes of City or Chelsea and given some of those balls away we would have been crushed. Clean sheet, but more so due to the lack of QPR ability and some great saves by DDG.

We continue to muddle along, but we are far from convincing. Gotta get better and make top 4 ours instead of trudging along with our toothless brand of football and hoping our rivals also drop points.

 

[The Taurean]

Hopefully, after this debacle LvG never plays Di Maria as a striker.

Absolutely strange tbh. Just switch him and Di Maria and start working on the defensive positioning when Di maria goes forward.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

@ people thinking its the end of 352 .


Van Gaal has set out clearly to make us miserable with playing a system that sucks the joy out of playing football. He has us playing brilliant 442 footballl but keeps it only to him self mostly in training, but sometimes decides to taunt us with what we could be playing just to feck with us. Next week again we will moan and groan at a line up that can play 442 but will inevitably have square pegs in round holes because the man enjoys seeing the caf in meltdown mode. That's not a note pad he is using , that's actually a tablet with him on the caf pressing refresh and watching us meltdown in front of his very eyes. That must be it. There is nothing else to explain why the man continues to do this to us. It's comical that we scored 2 minutes after a formation change that everyone and their dog saw was needed . Louis Van Gaal I loathe you. You have sucked the joy out of watching football and then shove back the joy right down my throat giving me hope for next week. But alas next week you will probably suck the joy again until we go a goal down . You bastard .

PS delighted that wilson got his goal. Falcao really needs to step up. Rojo looked good in his battles aswell. Away victory at last!

I'm not banking on it either. It's hardly as if the 352 hasn't been wank for the last 7-8 weeks. I reckon he will stick with it, sadly.

 

[Amadaeus]

Drop Louis Van gaal for our next match, put Giggs in charge and let's play 4-4-2 . Even though Giggs is probably more incompetent as a manager, we do not have to deal with the former stubbornness or arrogancy.

 

[Raw]

I really hate the way we give away counter attacks so easily.

That one that had QPR having like 4 against 2 was such an incredibly let off, something the better sides will punish us for it. All thanks to two United players chasing the same ball and neither of them knowing who's going to take it, that was fecking embarrassing.

And Rooney can feck off with giving away the ball so randomly too. Stick him up front as a striker already.

 

[justboy68]

We were very good once we switched to the 4-4-2 so at least the training is working when we decide to play that system rather than making things difficult for ourselves by persisting with one that the players clearly aren't comfortable with.

 

[DevilRed]

Delighted for Wilson today. His impact was undeniable and we should have punished qpr more times had Falcao been more clinical. It seems qpr thought they could pour forwards against our makeshift backline. Nice to see us burn them on the counter with ADM and Wilson. Pace kills and it sends a message to other teams that we can punish you on the break.

Obviously a tale of two halves. Or two formations. Yes we are more open in a 4-4-2. However, we are so much better on the ball and in attack.

Imagine if we actually played all our players in their natural positions! Like blind in midfield instead of fullback. Instead have shaw there. Or have ADM play on the wing to give us more width. The 4-4-2 diamond might not be the long term solution as it leaves us vulnerable on the flanks but four at the back should be a prerequisite. We could easily play a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 with more traditional wingers.

Great result for us and hopefully LVG sees the light now. Not holding my breath though.

 

[GloryHunter07]

Diamonds are forever!

Fellaini looking good, and im starting to really like Blind too.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I really hate the way we give away counter attacks so easily.

That one that had QPR having like 4 against 2 was such an incredibly let off, something the better sides will punish us for it. All thanks to two United players chasing the same ball and neither of them knowing who's going to take it, that was fecking embarrassing.

And Rooney can feck off with giving away the ball so randomly too. Stick him up front as a striker already.

I really don't see what LVG sees in rooney the midfielder. The only good things he does are the things he'd do anyway playing as second striker or attacker.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

We started off too slow and predictable in the first half playing a 532. Lack of movement ahead, no drive or urgency from midfield, not creating any chances, etc. Second half, unsurprisingly, when we changed to the diamond, we looked a lot better. Tempo of the passing was quicker, more options off the ball, getting into dangerous areas, etc.

The personnel change obviously played a big part too. I felt Wilson going up front, with Di Maria behind the two forwards worked a lot better. Wilson was able to hold up the ball a lot better than Di Maria did, and it meant Di Maria could drop a bit deeper and run at the QPR defence. I also think Fellaini changed the game. Not only with his great goal, but his physical presence.

All in all, as the OP said, surely this must now mean Van Gaal has to now go with the diamond, or at least stop playing 3 at the back because it just doesn't work, or very rarely does.

Glad we got a win today. With Arsenal and Southampton not playing, a win was crucial.

 

[R'hllor]

With 4-4-2 or 4 at the back in general there was a bit more chance for us to concede a goal. Again in both version with 3 or 4 at the back,its the players who fecked up, not a system.Maybe we doing it wrong,play 4 at the back till we score then switch to back 3,guess we would get pts but with not good looking performances.

 

[Jazz]

I hope today was the death and berrial of Di Maria as a striker.

This. Play to his strengths for goodness sakes.

 

[bishblaize]

Well. I literally cannot remember a game that changed so instantly and so completely with a tactical switch. Suddenly from looking like neither team would score all day it looked like both teams could score. The speed returned to our game and we made more chances after the change than we did for a long time before it. I must say that a better team would have scored against us, so I dont see the diamond as the undisputed answer to all our prayers. But it simply worked miles better than the back 3.

That said I dont think the back four was the only difference. ADM up front was fine to experiement with, but we can surely conclude that it doesnt work. If we're pushed really far back defending a narrow lead like against Arsenal it might be an option for a breakaway goal, but watching him bounce off their centre backs was just a bit pathetic. When he started playing from deeper he looked so much better that I can't see him not playing there in future.

Falcao - well, its a funny one. If Wilson had had those two good chances (the volley in the first half then the header in the second) I'd have said he'd done nothing wrong, both were on target and well struck. But a £45M striker should be burying both of those tbh, never mind if they were tough chances (which they probably weren't). The only positive thing to say I'd that it looks like a confidence thing to me (which can return) as opposed to a fitness thing (which may not). But with Wilson scoring and offering a bit of pace, and with RVP being teacher's pet, I can see a return to the bench looming for him.

Rooney in midfield has to stop. Ive never liked him there, too many hollywood balls. I noticed today he has a tendency to switch the direction of play when it doesnt need switching. Its a small thing, but the play would be moving from right to left, and rather than one touch sweep it out wide, he's taking three touches to turn back the other way, just so he can ping that ball to Valencia. We need a playmaker in there who understands the flow of the game, not a number 10/9 who happens to be strong enough that he doesnt get knocked off.

Also a quick note on Blind - what a dude. Love watching him play. Not flashy, but tackling neatly, passing neatly, intercepting neatly and tactially spot on in every position he's played for us. If our centre backs were all like him we could switch between a back 3 and back 4 without a problem.

In the end theres pros and cons to take away. We eventually played some good football, we took 3 points from a team that have only lost twice at home this season and, even though he was a little late, LVG saw the back 3 didnt work and ditched it. On the other hand both in terms of the players performances and the initial selection from the manager, it was far from perfect.

 

[Rolandofgilead]

We looked so much better when we switched to 4 at the back. Di Maria is not now nor will he ever be a striker, this needs to be killed with fire.

On the plus side, we looked much better after the switch, Wilsons pace and determination is so good to watch and Fellaini did a very good job when he came on. Blind had a superb game today too.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Poeple will read too much into the 4/5 at the back thing. We looked more dangerous with 4 at the back because at 0-1 QPR had to attack and take more chances.

Either formation, we need more cohesion and comfort on the ball.

3 points!

This basically. Mad how people pin their hopes on things. 'When blind comes back we'll be better' 'when rooney plays up front we'll be better' etc etc. Just need to start playing better full stop

 

[Carl]

You all know we'll play 352 in the next game right?

 

[Trizy]

Scrap 352 (duh!)
Play Rooney up front, he's a horrible CM
Play Di Maria in midfield

Result of these changes in the future = 3 points.

 

[Momochiru]

Wilson, Fellaini, Blind, and de Gea were very good.

Everyone else was shit.

Rojo, Jones and Valencia were pretty good too. Falcao wasn't great, but wasn't bad either.

 

[Jazz]

With 4-4-2 or 4 at the back in general there was a bit more chance for us to concede a goal. Again in both version with 3 or 4 at the back,its the players who fecked up, not a system.Maybe we doing it wrong,play 4 at the back till we score then switch to back 3,guess we would get pts but with not good looking performances.

I actually think this is a good suggestion. Attack first then safety afterwards. Until we get settled. There's too much anxiety at the moment. I think he wants us to be able to be more versatile in the systems we play. The problem is it's not going to happen overnight. He needs to do a slow introduction. Take care of the points first and then slowly get players to come around to his way of thinking. The other thing is, there isn't a dearth of 'intelligent' football players around. He's in a different culture and he will have to adapt a bit more. Lastly he needs to play players in their correct position. Not everyone is flexible like Blind. Take Shaw for example, he doesn't come across as the brightest soul to me. Plus he's young. Play him where he's more comfortable until he gets his confidence up before experimenting with him. It's just these little things I think we're kind of missing.

 

[rover]

the presence of fellaini freed up all our other creative players and that's the key of the game. he didn't compete with them of space, of the ball, and won't mind to do the ugly work in midfield.

we were beginning to build up effective attack since the 2nd half started, and falcao should have scored even before the substitution of evans.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I actually think this is a good suggestion. Attack first then safety afterwards. Until we get settled. There's too much anxiety at the moment. I think he wants us to be able to be more versatile in the systems we play. The problem is it's not going to happen overnight. He needs to do a slow introduction. Take care of the points first and then slowly get players to come around to his way of thinking. The other thing is, there isn't a dearth of 'intelligent' football players around. He's in a different culture and he will have to adapt a bit more. The last thing he needs is to play players in their correct position. Not everyone is flexible like Blind. Take Shaw for example, he doesn't come across as the brightest soul to me. Plus he's young. Play him where he's more comfortable until he gets his confidence up before experimenting with him. It's just these little things I think we're kind of missing.

It's not as if a 442 or diamond can't be made defensive mid game. Play Carrick and blind in the two or as part of the diamond 4, sit deeper and you'd have a more solid less vulnerable less creative 442.

Im no experrt but I prefer the idea of playing a system where the football works and you have to work on solidarity to a system where the football doesn't work.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

DDG was brilliant as usual, strange that I expect it from him now, smalling was the best defender, didn't do badly, Jones looks more and more like Luis in terns of playing style every day, position less but make some really energetic bursts when he wants to, I'd rather he played a Toure role from now on against smaller teams, he could cause real problems, but I don't see him as a good CB option. Rojo is not doing himself any favours at all, slightly better positionally, but is genuinely not the best defender.

Valencia still looks shot of confidence, doesn't even want to try his one dimensional burst, he seems lost in terms of decision making, but an efforted performance either way. Carrick did his job quietly and well but needs to be more involved when then goes badly for me. Mata was hidden and anonymous, but not aided by the fact he was playing a deep lying midfielder position. ADM IS NOT A STRIKER! His passing ability is a lot better than people say, its just not his best asset, but he needs to play further back. Falcao is the unluckiest striker on the earth and Rooney as usual puts in a shift out of position.

What would I change?

Ddg must start obviously, but with Rojo and Jones as full backs with Carrick and Evans inside, there is a more familiar formation and base.

Blind needed to start, he's a mobile Carrick and due to the physicality of this game, I'd start Fellaini next to Blind with ADM ahead of him and Rooney up top. Leaves just two positions, the left and right midfielders should be Mata and Herrera..

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Scrap 352 (duh!)
Play Rooney up front, he's a horrible CM
Play Di Maria in midfield

Result of these changes in the future = 3 points.

Rooney back up front, Di Maria and Herrera in midfield. Sorry no Mata.

 

[PvsNP]

About to time we had another away win.

Hopefully, we won't be seeing the 3-5-2 system in the near future. It's a serious wonder how we won against Liverpool with that formation.

 

[LARulz]

Van Gaal say anything of note after the game?

 

[ThaReaper01]

I'm tired of seeing Mata get bullied off the ball time and time again. His best form for Chelsea came on the wing. Play him there or not at all. He has not offered enough down the middle in his 12 months at United.

 

[Shimo]

Can't believe wake up to that. Actually think if QPR had won, it would not have been an unfair result. Not that they did much but, lot more than we did with far less possession.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Can't believe wake up to that. Actually think if QPR had won, it would not have been an unfair result. Not that they did much but, lot more than we did with far less possession.

They created more chances than us. Also Sky saying our pass success rate was 77.14%. Is that lowish or fine.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

Was out of the house this morning and missed the match. Can someone give me a rundown of how the team played / summary of the match?

I heard things were much better after switching to four at the back?

 

[#07]

Van Gaal say anything of note after the game?

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[bosnian_red]

Tweet

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So does he like the balance of the 3-5-2 where we create nothing but give away nothing either? Surely not hard to just use both Blind and Carrick in the 4 man midfield and not play strikers there?

 

[LARulz]

Tweet

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Pretty simple then I guess, sign some players to rectify that. Obviously it's January so hard to but there must be someone out there who can help

 

[bosnian_red]

I'm tired of seeing Mata get bullied off the ball time and time again. His best form for Chelsea came on the wing. Play him there or not at all. He has not offered enough down the middle in his 12 months at United.

Apart from a combined 18 goals and assists in 30 games.... Can't believe this nonsense is creeping back after he's been comfortably our best outfield player the last few months.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

The whole team isn't on good form, it's not just the formation. During the entire game QPR were all over us and at some point i felt i was watching boys playing against men. Our players couldn't get first on the ball anywhere on the pitch and the only ones who were winning challenges and duels were Rojo and Jones in our box. How can you move players in more advanced positions when your creative players can't keep the ball at their feet for more than two seconds?

I'll leave behind the debate about why Di Maria, who looked as light as a feather, wasn't utilized beside Carrick with Mata in front of them but i'll say this: After the defeat at Leicester LvG's game plans and his selections for the starting lineup are more focused on the opponent's strengths and our weaknesses than the other way around. This approach gave us a good run of wins and put us into the top four but when the carriage seems to have stuck in the mud again you have to take some risks in the game.

And we did that in the second half. Bringing Fellaini on instead of Mata was a sound choice, we added some physicality in our midfield and we found someone who would get on the ball and keep possession in the attacking third. This also gave Rooney the opportunity to spend more time in the final third and the two of them together created the the spaces for our first goal.

Wilson proved to be a good move too by the manager. He should have finished the game not only with one goal but with two assists as well. And they would have been two assists for clear cut goal scoring opportunities that he created all by himself with his acceleration. Great game, we may have something good here.

The risks were Blind as a LB against a far more mobile and pacey Isla which was an obvious miss-match that caused us a lot of problems and Carrick getting outnumbered whenever Fellaini and Rooney got dispossessed in the midfield. Although we were put under pressure again Jones and Rojo had a good game defensively and De Gea was always there when we needed him.

I can understand LvG's worries about our defense but sometimes you have to take some reasonable risks, sacrifice some of your safety and push for the better result.