What'd he say?
PL L FA Premier League
Tottenham Hotspur 3:0 Manchester United
Post-match discussion
Sun, 10 April 2016
Carragher spot on
Perfect.
14 years since we last lost at WHL...I didn't realise we still had any records that were left to be trampled on.
I hate what we have become.
That keeps coming up this season. 'Pathetic number' goals in our last X games. Only Stoke has scored less than us in the top half all season. Our output is at best midtable and we can't even complain of poor finishing when we barely create enough chances. Feck sakes indeed.
LvG's tactics and subs are like Taco from The League trying to set his lineup.
'I need a running back so I'll pick...Mason Crosby...?'
'I need a running back so I'll pick...Mason Crosby...?'
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If we'd decided to not turn up spurs would likely have been awarded the match 3-0 by default. Sort of what actually happened in the end...
We looked like we had absolutely no clue how to create half a decent chance or even how to get a single player on the ball in the box... that pretty much summarizes us under LvG.
Never mind Young up front, i've said it before that if there's no pressure from the board on the manager about the poor performances, the manager will probably try the craziest experiments just because he feels untouchable. In that sense, in LvG's mind the primary objective was always to get Martial-Lingard-Mata in good positions in the box and therefore Young could work the channels and try to link up with the players behind him. It's absurd when you think about it but not as absurd as LvG still being United's manager after what we've been served this season.
Other than that, we didn't become wiser today. The quest for a functioning game plan and a stable staring lineup continues since after two good wins we were blown to pieces again. Carrick and Schneiderlin aren't the most compatible midfield partnership but we keep seeing them playing together. Our plan wasn't to sit back and absorb pressure but press in the midfield. With that as a given, it was normal that Lingard wouldn't find the spaces in the central areas to run with the ball (the thing he's good at) but he played in the hole. Mata can't play to his full strengths in a possession based side and it was fully expected that he would struggle against one of the most physical sides in the PL but we started him anyway.
The usual suspects, Smalling-Blind-DDG-Martial and Rashford, did rather well till the moment we conceded. We had managed to contain Kane, Eriksen and Alli and slow down the procedures. Someone could say that we were a bit unlucky because we conceded in the only time our whole defense was very high. Smalling had moved forward to challenge for the ball and Blind didn't cover but chose to rush in the scene. Kane won the tackle, the rest is history.
The fact that we simply fell apart after that isn't strange either. Under LvG we're a team that aims to make each match a one goal game with the hope that we'll score it. When that doesn't happen, we rarely bounce back.
Never mind Young up front, i've said it before that if there's no pressure from the board on the manager about the poor performances, the manager will probably try the craziest experiments just because he feels untouchable. In that sense, in LvG's mind the primary objective was always to get Martial-Lingard-Mata in good positions in the box and therefore Young could work the channels and try to link up with the players behind him. It's absurd when you think about it but not as absurd as LvG still being United's manager after what we've been served this season.
Other than that, we didn't become wiser today. The quest for a functioning game plan and a stable staring lineup continues since after two good wins we were blown to pieces again. Carrick and Schneiderlin aren't the most compatible midfield partnership but we keep seeing them playing together. Our plan wasn't to sit back and absorb pressure but press in the midfield. With that as a given, it was normal that Lingard wouldn't find the spaces in the central areas to run with the ball (the thing he's good at) but he played in the hole. Mata can't play to his full strengths in a possession based side and it was fully expected that he would struggle against one of the most physical sides in the PL but we started him anyway.
The usual suspects, Smalling-Blind-DDG-Martial and Rashford, did rather well till the moment we conceded. We had managed to contain Kane, Eriksen and Alli and slow down the procedures. Someone could say that we were a bit unlucky because we conceded in the only time our whole defense was very high. Smalling had moved forward to challenge for the ball and Blind didn't cover but chose to rush in the scene. Kane won the tackle, the rest is history.
The fact that we simply fell apart after that isn't strange either. Under LvG we're a team that aims to make each match a one goal game with the hope that we'll score it. When that doesn't happen, we rarely bounce back.
This is where we are as a club...
18 year old Fosu-Mensah going off completely destroyed us.
Think about that ffs.
18 year old Fosu-Mensah going off completely destroyed us.
Think about that ffs.
And I could've spent the afternoon putting my blinds up instead of watching us play, would've been a far better day.
This team is set up to win 1-0, if we go behind we look lost. We pressed well enough in the first 15 minutes or so but created nothing, Spurs created the only true chance. In the second half we finally had a shot on goal, which Martial had to create all by himself as that was seemingly our gameplan.
It reminded me of LvG's tactics for Bayern against Inter in the CL final, they spent the whole game just playing out to Robben, hoping he would cut in and deliver a bit of stardust. The midfield offered nothing creatively and ended up getting overrun, then we had Mata as a Wingback and brought Ashlrey Young on as a striker instead of putting him LW and moving Martial central.........I give up.
It reminded me of LvG's tactics for Bayern against Inter in the CL final, they spent the whole game just playing out to Robben, hoping he would cut in and deliver a bit of stardust. The midfield offered nothing creatively and ended up getting overrun, then we had Mata as a Wingback and brought Ashlrey Young on as a striker instead of putting him LW and moving Martial central.........I give up.
This isn't the same Spurs like this isn't the same United FFS. Stop selling Spurs and Leicester short. They are better than United this year, get that through your thick skulls. They are better for a variety of reasons. United must get better and stay healthy(ish).
So he is pouring the blame onto Martial for not taking that chance and absolving himself of any blame. Well done LvG you plonker.
- LvGs seemed happy to have given Spurs a game for 60 minutes.
- LvG rueing Martials shot not going in shows how far we have fallen
- We fell apart after Fosu-Mensah went off.
Plus a few other points which can't remember now
That's far more polite than what I had in mind, Taddy.
LVG is a shite manager. Who created a shite football team. Who play shite football. Resulting in shite games like today.
I honestly believe that needed pointing out.
I honestly believe that needed pointing out.
So … two years in and the "philosophy™" is still absent.
Any LvG apologists still confident it will miraculously appear if we retain him for the full contract?
Any LvG apologists still confident it will miraculously appear if we retain him for the full contract?
Far, far too reliant on 18/19 year olds bailing out their senior colleagues.
Heads rolling this summer on and off the pitch.
Heads rolling this summer on and off the pitch.
I did have other things in mind, but it wouldn't be ladylike.
The most aggravating thing is the title and definitely top 4 was so achievable this year. We have been piss poor yet in touching distance of fourth spot... So annoying.
Seems all too pointless when the ball isn't played towards there. Yep, sounds about right for our manager.- Did not see result coming at HT
- Before they scored we had the biggest chance with Martial
- 'Gave the goal away' due to miscommunication
- Re: Ashley Young: He wanted more 'running in behind', hence he was played up front
- Every team can lose, we are still in the race for fourth
- Tottenham are a great team, but until the first goal we were playing well and missed a chance for our goal
Yet again with the 1 chance = 1 goal bullshit.
Must be all those trophies spurs have won that back up the arrogance of your attitude about the match.
I'll just have to console myself with the 13 titles, 2 European cups, 7 FA cups, 1 CWC and three league cups I've seen my team win while I jealousy watch you polish the 'spurs trophyless season' trophy again this year
LVG is an absolute disaster. There is something about being clueless- like Moyes was. Then there is a worse thing- being arrogant- That is LVG.
Lets go start of the game. Rose starts making runs down his flank. Everyone notices Mata is struggling to keep hold of him. But there was arrogance of not wo swap him with Lingard.
Then it happens again and again and again. No change. We wonder whether, Lingard hasn't been told of some tendencies of Player so as to mark him efficiently. So you wonder at HT, this would be a definite change. Didn't take place.
Then there was Rojo. He was poor last game, he was equally bad this one. You had to wonder that he will be brought off at HT for Young or Darmian. Well, Young came but for Rashford, a player who was not having his best day, but certainly wasn't a worse bet for a striker than Young.
At HT: Only these 2 changes were needed. And you'd have play being much smoother.
Then after that we had 4 attacking players. All having exclusive natural positions but none playing in them!
You can't expect to win this way!
When the 2nd half started You had a CB at LB, a DM at CB, Winger as ST, Striker as Winger, CAM at RW, RW at CAM! IS this the philosophy! Confuse the opposition?
And before I forget, whats up with our corners! We get around 8-10 per game. None are even threatening for the defence let alone GK! You want to take short corner thats fine! But the 2nd man should atleast add a dimension to the set piece. 2 like footed players wont add to diversity in the cross that is possible to put in. 2 non dribbling players wont add to the threat the defence would face if one decides to take the ball in and dribble past and then pass it on. 2 non natural wingers (and slow players) wont add to the dimension of running in a bit and drilling a cross across the face. We even had Schneiderlin take one of the corners today!
Lets go start of the game. Rose starts making runs down his flank. Everyone notices Mata is struggling to keep hold of him. But there was arrogance of not wo swap him with Lingard.
Then it happens again and again and again. No change. We wonder whether, Lingard hasn't been told of some tendencies of Player so as to mark him efficiently. So you wonder at HT, this would be a definite change. Didn't take place.
Then there was Rojo. He was poor last game, he was equally bad this one. You had to wonder that he will be brought off at HT for Young or Darmian. Well, Young came but for Rashford, a player who was not having his best day, but certainly wasn't a worse bet for a striker than Young.
At HT: Only these 2 changes were needed. And you'd have play being much smoother.
Then after that we had 4 attacking players. All having exclusive natural positions but none playing in them!
You can't expect to win this way!
When the 2nd half started You had a CB at LB, a DM at CB, Winger as ST, Striker as Winger, CAM at RW, RW at CAM! IS this the philosophy! Confuse the opposition?
And before I forget, whats up with our corners! We get around 8-10 per game. None are even threatening for the defence let alone GK! You want to take short corner thats fine! But the 2nd man should atleast add a dimension to the set piece. 2 like footed players wont add to diversity in the cross that is possible to put in. 2 non dribbling players wont add to the threat the defence would face if one decides to take the ball in and dribble past and then pass it on. 2 non natural wingers (and slow players) wont add to the dimension of running in a bit and drilling a cross across the face. We even had Schneiderlin take one of the corners today!
For the way the team was set up today, Valencia should have started ahead of Mata or substituted at half time.
As much as I like LVG am starting to believe he is trying too hard to be on the good side of the fans by playing Mata in games he has no business getting involved in. Spurs were never gonna sit back and concede possession easily, we chose to make the game as scrappy as possible..why would you include the fans darling in such a game plan.
Second half when you know Spurs would have to up the ante, Young and Valencia should have been the ideal replace for Mata and Rashford...on the right and left, then wait to add Herrera halfway in.
Personally I don't think the tactics was wrong but he bottled his selection as usual. Tends to have the right game plan but keep expecting the wrong personnel to execute it.
As much as I like LVG am starting to believe he is trying too hard to be on the good side of the fans by playing Mata in games he has no business getting involved in. Spurs were never gonna sit back and concede possession easily, we chose to make the game as scrappy as possible..why would you include the fans darling in such a game plan.
Second half when you know Spurs would have to up the ante, Young and Valencia should have been the ideal replace for Mata and Rashford...on the right and left, then wait to add Herrera halfway in.
Personally I don't think the tactics was wrong but he bottled his selection as usual. Tends to have the right game plan but keep expecting the wrong personnel to execute it.
I thought we were looking relatively solid. Not playing well, by any means, and certainly not creating any chances. But then we just sort of collapsed. Urgh.
Positives? Apart from TFM, absolutely nothing for me.
Positives? Apart from TFM, absolutely nothing for me.
It's not absent.
We see it in action every game.
1. score 1 goal per game. If a 2nd goal is there for the taking, then take it, but don't push for it.
2. rely on DDG to concede 0 goals.
3. if the opponent scores 1 goal, we accept a draw.
4. if the opponent scores more than 1 goal, we accept a loss.
That's his philosophy and we have been seeing this all season.
I can accept us losing at Spurs, but losing whilst we play each of our four attacking players in the wrong positions for seemingly no good reason - what's that about?
Martial Young Mata
Lingard
Instead of...
Young Martial Lingard
Mata
Martial Young Mata
Lingard
Instead of...
Young Martial Lingard
Mata
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Where did our money go?
That second half performance was an absolute disgrace. van Gaal has been dining out on the fact we're still in the FA Cup and is under some illusion we're going to win it, I really can't see us winning the replay. The board need to pull their fingers out and act now so at least us fans know we can definitely start a fresh next season.
LVG is smoking something strange again.
Am I disappointed? Yes
Am I surprised? No
That line up was just asking for a hammering, the tactics woeful, LVG is not some tactical genius, he's a clueless old fart and a disgrace to the badge. Imagine if 2 years ago he signed to become spurs manager instead of us, would they have been as good as they are now or even as good as we are now.
Why is Lingard at attacking mid, he cannot attack or control the game, simple lay offs are not enough against a high pressing team, you barely get any time on the ball anyway. He should not have played, Herrera should have played as part of a midfield 3 to help sure it up.
Mata on the wings again why, he doesnt have the pace and to put him up against Rose wtf. We should have played Young there to track his runs.
What the f is this philosophy were supposed to be playing, wtf is this ridiculous defensive line that were playing. That first goal sums everything thing wrong about us, the philosophy and Van Gaal what is he trying to do, what is the logic behind it. In contrast looking at spurs back line, 4 defender inline and compact, our back line, 3 defenders and 2 going for the same ball, Blind should have stepped back and covered the left side and let Smalling get it and wtf was Schneiderlin doing, if your going to take command then make sure your going to win the ball.
It's a fecking shambles as they say. LVG doesn't have a clue about the magnitude to this club, its heritage or its aspirations.
The only positive is Fosu-Mensah.
We should have started with
De Gea
Darmian....Smalling....Rojo....Mensah
Morgan........Blind
Herrera
Young.........................................Depay
Martial
Subbed on: Carrick, Rashford.
Am I surprised? No
That line up was just asking for a hammering, the tactics woeful, LVG is not some tactical genius, he's a clueless old fart and a disgrace to the badge. Imagine if 2 years ago he signed to become spurs manager instead of us, would they have been as good as they are now or even as good as we are now.
Why is Lingard at attacking mid, he cannot attack or control the game, simple lay offs are not enough against a high pressing team, you barely get any time on the ball anyway. He should not have played, Herrera should have played as part of a midfield 3 to help sure it up.
Mata on the wings again why, he doesnt have the pace and to put him up against Rose wtf. We should have played Young there to track his runs.
What the f is this philosophy were supposed to be playing, wtf is this ridiculous defensive line that were playing. That first goal sums everything thing wrong about us, the philosophy and Van Gaal what is he trying to do, what is the logic behind it. In contrast looking at spurs back line, 4 defender inline and compact, our back line, 3 defenders and 2 going for the same ball, Blind should have stepped back and covered the left side and let Smalling get it and wtf was Schneiderlin doing, if your going to take command then make sure your going to win the ball.
It's a fecking shambles as they say. LVG doesn't have a clue about the magnitude to this club, its heritage or its aspirations.
The only positive is Fosu-Mensah.
We should have started with
De Gea
Darmian....Smalling....Rojo....Mensah
Morgan........Blind
Herrera
Young.........................................Depay
Martial
Subbed on: Carrick, Rashford.
Downright mediocre. We don't attack as a team. It's just individuals acting in an ad-hoc manner doing whatever they can on their own.
Have you been waiting 15 years to post that? You are obviously a blatant WUM with your post content as it bears no relevance to the thread title
Which bit of "post match vs Tottenham hotspur" did you seemingly misunderstand?
We might as well start polishing our trophies as there won't be any new ones coming anytime soon.Must be all those trophies spurs have won that back up the arrogance of your attitude about the match.
I'll just have to console myself with the 13 titles, 2 European cups, 7 FA cups, 1 CWC and three league cups I've seen my team win while I jealousy watch you polish the 'spurs trophyless season' trophy again this year
Spurs was easy, LvG won't find it so easy to orchestrate a defeat against West Ham in the FA Cup - unless he's planning on using De Gea as our No10 and Mata between the sticks!
That's a bit strong considering that he's a long-standing (admittedly annoying at times) member on here … currently outposting you somewhere in the region of 7 or 8 to 1!
We do need objectiveness here and having a few of the nicer rival fans posting sometimes keeps our feet on the ground. In the good times we get to gloat so … I think I'll give Glaston this one!
I can't even be bothered. What an abject display.
If van Gaal were not the manager, I would say we threw that match.
Where do you start....
Just obvious where the problems lie....
Poor lineup - Mata chasing Rose and Lingard in 10 is just plain silly.... Lingard is a player who will run all day, gets on the end of the odd pass/cross to score but isn't very creative himself - Why these two have swapped positions baffles me
A lack of quality - too many players simply not good enough - simple as that - after a great game last week Blind was poor in that second half - wedded to that is our passing today - we gave the ball away far too often
Also in lack of quality was the final ball... our players seem unable to find each other in space or put in a decent cross
Rashford - not sure if he was injured but to take him off at half time to play Young at CF.... another Van GAAL mystery
Carrick was pretty much a passenger - Herrera has to start especially given how poor Carrick was last week and we are up against a strong running midfield
Our only glimpse at goal came from Martial magic .... again the system and lack of quality players meaning we will only get 1/2 opportunities a game - Memphis came on and beat Walker putting in a good ball - hope he gets an opportunity again
The players gave up.... that could have finished 5 nil to Spurs in the end... Depends Gea made a few good saves through the game but after their goal he was far too exposed and 3-0 ended up flattering us a bit perhaps
West Ham on Wednesday and hard to see us getting a result - the sooner the season is over the better - Can't wait to get shot of Van Gaal
Just obvious where the problems lie....
Poor lineup - Mata chasing Rose and Lingard in 10 is just plain silly.... Lingard is a player who will run all day, gets on the end of the odd pass/cross to score but isn't very creative himself - Why these two have swapped positions baffles me
A lack of quality - too many players simply not good enough - simple as that - after a great game last week Blind was poor in that second half - wedded to that is our passing today - we gave the ball away far too often
Also in lack of quality was the final ball... our players seem unable to find each other in space or put in a decent cross
Rashford - not sure if he was injured but to take him off at half time to play Young at CF.... another Van GAAL mystery
Carrick was pretty much a passenger - Herrera has to start especially given how poor Carrick was last week and we are up against a strong running midfield
Our only glimpse at goal came from Martial magic .... again the system and lack of quality players meaning we will only get 1/2 opportunities a game - Memphis came on and beat Walker putting in a good ball - hope he gets an opportunity again
The players gave up.... that could have finished 5 nil to Spurs in the end... Depends Gea made a few good saves through the game but after their goal he was far too exposed and 3-0 ended up flattering us a bit perhaps
West Ham on Wednesday and hard to see us getting a result - the sooner the season is over the better - Can't wait to get shot of Van Gaal
Man of the Match
Runners-up
-
12%
David de Gea
-
5%
Anthony Martial
-
1%
Chris Smalling
-
1%
Marcos Rojo
-
1%
Morgan Schneiderlin
-
1%
Daley Blind
-
1%
Ashley Young
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 383 ratings.
Score Predictions
239,208,148
- Man Utd win
- Tottenham win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 18% Tottenham 1:2 Man Utd
- 17% Tottenham 1:1 Man Utd
- 13% Tottenham 0:1 Man Utd
- 12% Tottenham 2:1 Man Utd
- 11% Tottenham 2:0 Man Utd
- 4% Tottenham 0:0 Man Utd
- 4% Tottenham 2:2 Man Utd
- 4% Tottenham 3:1 Man Utd
- 3% Tottenham 1:0 Man Utd
- 3% Tottenham 0:2 Man Utd
- 3% Tottenham 3:0 Man Utd
- 2% Tottenham 1:3 Man Utd
- 2% Tottenham 5:0 Man Utd
- 1% Tottenham 2:3 Man Utd
- 1% Tottenham 0:3 Man Utd
- 1% Tottenham 0:5 Man Utd
- 0% Tottenham 4:0 Man Utd
- 0% Tottenham 5:5 Man Utd
- 0% Tottenham 4:1 Man Utd
- 0% Tottenham 4:5 Man Utd
- 0% Tottenham 2:4 Man Utd
- 0% Tottenham 1:4 Man Utd
- 0% Tottenham 0:4 Man Utd
- 0% Tottenham 3:2 Man Utd
Match Stats
- Tottenham
- Man Utd
- Possession
- 47% 53%
- Shots
- 16 5
- Shots on Target
- 8 1
- Corners
- 2 7
- Fouls
- 10 10
Referee
Mike Dean
Man Utd Lineup
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-
-
-
-
replaced by Matteo Darmian
-
replaced by Memphis Depay
-
-
-
-
-
replaced by Ashley Young
