Premier League Gameweek 17 | Stop flogging a dead thread - Damien

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Varun

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It also takes incredible delusion to call Henderson a non footballer, which is pretty much the post that triggered the ensuing discussion. Liverpool fans daring to opine that Henderson has had a better four months than Pogba. Hardly controversial.
Yeah, saying he is a non footballer is incredibly delusional as well. Not sure what the point is though other than saying "yeah I'm delusional but he is as well".
 

montpelier

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Lallana has to be in, Zlatan has a case, but...

I reckon the team without Zlatan beats the team that has him in it.
 

PickledRed

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@PickledRed

Reason why I went Herrera is for balance, but also he's almost been our player of the season.. I watch all Liverpool and United games, and Lallana has been brilliant but for me Herrera does an incredible amount of heavy lifting for our side, whereas Lallana has much more support in that free flowing side which makes him look better than what he is (which is still a good player).

Herrera for me is up there with best CM's in the EPL, a guy who can stand on his own two feet and impose himself on any given game of football.
Fair do's
 

Carolina Red

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Indeed. I think Ferguson has been proven incorrect regarding his verdict of Henderson in his book. He did get things wrong at times. Just to be clear, are we all still operating under the notion that Jordan Henderson is a poor footballer?
I'm operating under the notion that I'm quite happy he's a dipper
 

Baxter

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Didn't know we have so many dippers here on the board. What happened to your own forums?

And thread title :lol:
It's really odd when they spend time when there is a game on posting on here.
 

Irrational.

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You make a compelling point.

It's his only goal this season, filmed with a calculator it seems. What's your point?

They're both different types of midfielders so it'd be difficult to compare anyway.

Henderson has been outstanding for Liverpool, whilst Pogba is growing into this United team and has only recently found his ideal positon in the setup.

I know stats aren't the be-all and end-all, but here are some for you to mull over :)

 

Klopper76

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It's really odd when they spend time when there is a game on posting on here.
How is that different from the Chelsea fans or the Arsenal fans or any other fan who doesn't support United posting whilst a game is on?

Take it as a compliment. This forum is better than any Liverpool one out there and welcomes fans of other teams so long as they follow the rules/don't wum all the time. When you read some of the narrow minded views on forums like RAWK with mods than ban people for having a different opinion, it's easy to see why this place appeals to people who don't support United, as well as your own fan base.
 

Robertd0803

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How is that different from the Chelsea fans or the Arsenal fans or any other fan who doesn't support United posting whilst a game is on?

Take it as a compliment. This forum is better than any Liverpool one out there and welcomes fans of other teams so long as they follow the rules/don't wum all the time. When you read some of the narrow minded views on forums like RAWK with mods than ban people for having a different opinion, it's easy to see why this place appeals to people who don't support United, as well as your own fan base.
Fair play to you, I feel this should be used in an advertising blurb for this forum or something similar.

Edit (genuinely, just in case that reads as sarcastic which isn't my intention, having read it back after posting).
 

Carolina Red

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How is that different from the Chelsea fans or the Arsenal fans or any other fan who doesn't support United posting whilst a game is on?

Take it as a compliment. This forum is better than any Liverpool one out there and welcomes fans of other teams so long as they follow the rules/don't wum all the time. When you read some of the narrow minded views on forums like RAWK with mods than ban people for having a different opinion, it's easy to see why this place appeals to people who don't support United, as well as your own fan base.
Can't really disagree with anything you've said here. Good post
 

SirHenryPercy

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A Liverpool side that Klopp has had 1 year to work with. Last year Liverpool finished 8th yet I don't think many Liverpool fans paid attention to the statistics then, it was all about progression. Utd are in a similar situation where the play is improving but the table only reflects the whole season, not just the recent improved United.

I really wouldn't take more than Coutinho, and really pushing it Matip from Liverpool for my strongest Utd XI.

- De Gea > all your keepers,
- I'm happy with Bailly, Smalling as my CB pairing. Matip is good, so maybe he has a case to partner Bailly. Valencia is better than Clyne, and Milner vs Shaw isn't even close.
- In midfield, Carrick is a better passer than Henderson, Pogba is better than any Liverpool midfielder and Herrera and Lallana is where it becomes debatable and down to personal preference.
- Up front like I said I'd take Coutinho on my left, Zlatan centrally is a no brainer and on the right Mkhitaryan is a superior player to Mane. But although Mkhi has not played much, I already know his level is above Mane's.

This isn't a combined XI btw, it's a squad comparison.

The reason why this "Superiority" isn't reflected in the table is because the team hasn't the same time to gel that Liverpool has. I don't think there's been even 3 games yet where Bailly, Pogba, Zlatan and Mkhi have all played atleast 70-80 minutes together. However with time it will improve and I can see that already. In my opinion, Utd's team has a higher ceiling than Liverpool's. If the team doesn't achieve that, then questions are to be asked of Jose, but as of now the progression is pretty good. Your last point kind of supports what I'm saying... Imagine how offensively potent we'll be when we get Martial and Mkhi firing to add to Zlatan. Mkhi has been good when he has played, but Martial has looked off the pace this season which is why I'd take Coutinho over him.
Hmmm, I think this is a case of watching one team through rose tinted spectacles and the other through shit covered spectacles.
 

VP89

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Its daft to say that Henderson isn't a footballer.

Its also daft to say Henderson is a superior player to Pogba.

FWIW I think Henderson is decent enough. Not sure why he gets a lot of stick here.
 

OL29

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Its daft to say that Henderson isn't a footballer.

Its also daft to say Henderson is a superior player to Pogba.

FWIW I think Henderson is decent enough. Not sure why he gets a lot of stick here.
Yeah Henderson is heavily underrated on here, probably due to preconceptions about his style of play.

I still don't think he's been better than Pogba this season, it's just that people expect more from Pogba as he's such a superior player.

Liverpool fans can talk about current league positions but in all fairness, without Pogba, it's likely we'd be even worse off. In fact, our midfield has been the least of our problems this season.
 

AXVnee7

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Hmmm, I think this is a case of watching one team through rose tinted spectacles and the other through shit covered spectacles.
I guess it would be like saying Alli is better than Pogba or that Pogba can never hope to reach the level of Modric.
 

SirHenryPercy

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I guess it would be like saying Alli is better than Pogba or that Pogba can never hope to reach the level of Modric.
No, it's nothing like that.

And if Alli wants to be world class one day, (which personally is a level I think that is beyond him) then it's the likes of Modric that he needs to aspire to.

I don't have a tendency to massively overrate our players or indeed our performances.

Whereas I have a suspicion that anybody thinking a combined Utd Liverpool line-up would include only one pool player may have just a very slight bias.
 
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giorno

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Henderson is having a great season. Really impressed me so far.
 

Terminator

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Look at the successful take ons stat.:lol:

Pogba is better at dribbling than most wingers, that's what makes him so unique. His hold up play and dribbling under pressure sets him apart from other midfielders.

Henderson on the other hand, is a good midfielder albeit limited. He can thrive well and beyond his technical limits in a very good setup(Like Liverpool's).
 

giorno

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They're comparing performances. Henderson has been great this season, it's not his fault pogba has more footballing talent in his d*ck than he has in his whole body
 

GaryLifo

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The thing everyone is missing here is that Henderson has the most punchable face in the entire premier league.

Honestly, even his own team mates must get tempted to start punching him over and over again.

I don't think a midfield that contains Henderson will ever win the premier league. For me he's pretty limited even if he's having a decent season.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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Different type of players. Pogba and Henderson would compliment each other very well.

Henderson should be compared to Herrera not Pogba.
 

AltiUn

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They're comparing performances. Henderson has been great this season, it's not his fault pogba has more footballing talent in his d*ck than he has in his whole body
This actually kind of sums it up nicely, Henderson's had a great season but he's just not got the talent Pogba has, that's no slight on Henderson it's just the way things are.
 

Klopper76

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This actually kind of sums it up nicely, Henderson's had a great season but he's just not got the talent Pogba has, that's no slight on Henderson it's just the way things are.
Exactly the way I see it.
 

Peanut Butter

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Why does it feel like a Liverpool forum in the footy section these days?

There are millions of Pool supporters here. That Klopper guy lives here. I don't mind the odd opposition fan but in all honesty I did join RedCafe to chat with fellow Utd supporters in general.

Seems like they can WUM all they want too.
 

podurban2

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Why does it feel like a Liverpool forum in the footy section these days?

There are millions of Pool supporters here. That Klopper guy lives here. I don't mind the odd opposition fan but in all honesty I did join RedCafe to chat with fellow Utd supporters in general.

Seems like they can WUM all they want too.
They are usually nice, they are just having their Glaston moment right now.
 

RobinLFC

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They are usually nice, they are just having their Glaston moment right now.
Nah, I'm pretty sure no one has proclaimed that Henderson is better than Pogba. It's probably just someone who phrased his opinion a bit wrong, a United fan picked up on it or interpreted it wrong and from there on, it's an easy leap to "Henderson better than Pogba? Feck sake all scousers are so delusional it's unreal", while I think (the majority of) Liverpool fans haven't said much wrong on the matter.

In fact, the last 100 posts are almost exclusively people saying the same thing who seem to agree with each other but express it differently - Henderson is having a great season but because Pogba is a superior talent and footballer, his performances are simply measured by higher standards. It's also pretty pointless to compare them or their statistics because they're very different players playing in very different roles carrying out very different tasks.

If they both continue playing like they have been, I'm sure they'll both have a strong case to be included in the team of the season come May.
 

One Night Only

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Why does it feel like a Liverpool forum in the footy section these days?

There are millions of Pool supporters here. That Klopper guy lives here. I don't mind the odd opposition fan but in all honesty I did join RedCafe to chat with fellow Utd supporters in general.

Seems like they can WUM all they want too.
Manchester United section of the forum may be nice for you to visit :p
 

Fridge chutney

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Your league position supports hardly anything you have put down. If your squad is so much better how comes we are second and you are sixth? You are going by reputation and not form and
you are also comparing player for player and like for like which is fine up to a point but neglects numerous factors such as tactics, formation and set-up, the team aspect, the manager and so much more.

What you said about "needing time to gel" is nonsense, look at Chelsea who are top; new manager, new players (Kante, Alonso, Moses), a new system (wingbacks and three at the back), a club legend having his longest absence out of the first team.

Your post at #2368 is so biased I don't even know where to begin.
"Herrera and Lallana is where it becomes debatable" don't make me laugh! If you total goals and assists together only Costa and Sanchez are higher that Lallana so I don't know where you got that one from.
Shaw is a massive let down. Poor player who is, like so many in your squad, living off reputation. Mourinho doesn't even like him by the sounds of things. Overpaid and overhyped.

Our forward line works as a unit; four players pressing high up the pitch all moving in different directions where as you are being carried by a 35 year old who is being run into the ground by a clueless, whining, whinging manager. Zlatan has been excellent though ill say that much.

"Carrick is a better passer than Henderson" I posted on Henderson's stats above, so won't repeat them again, they are colossal. Seen Henderson's goal against Chelsea? I don't even think Carrick can kick it that far and he hasn't had an assist in the league either for all his passing abilities. If he is such an accomplished passed how comes Mourinho waited so long to gel him into your side?

You are paying some outrageous transfer fees and wages in the process.
Carrick can't kick it that far? What a bizarre WUM.

As for transfer fees and wages, haven't Liverpool spent 1 billion pounds to not win the premier league? Also, Liverpool's revenue to wage ratio is 56%, United's is 51%. Therefore, Liverpool pays more wages proportionally. See, I can take stats and make your club look absurd too.

Would you honestly choose Henderson over Carrick or Pogba as a footballer? Probably yes, since Carrick can't kick it very far!
 

Keegs

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There isn't a single midfielder talent wise in the premier league that is fit to tie Pogba's boots let alone Jordan Henderson. The most manufactured footballer Ive ever seen looks stiff while on the ball has no natural ability he's the white Ramires for God sake to say he's near Pogba is laughable. Love how Pogba is rubbish all of a sudden to opposition fans because he's at United now but when he wasn't he was the best thing since sliced bread.
 

Keegs

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There isn't a single midfielder talent wise in the premier league that is fit to tie Pogba's boots let alone Jordan Henderson. The most manufactured footballer Ive ever seen looks stiff while on the ball has no natural ability he's the white Ramires for God sake to say he's near Pogba is laughable. Love how Pogba is rubbish all of a sudden to opposition fans because he's at United now but when he wasn't he was the best thing since sliced bread.
 
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