Premier League Gameweek 31+32

[edcunited1878]

Hmm, didn't realise their fixture list was that tricky. If they lose that game in hand against Chelsea then it actually gives us a great shot at making top 4.

Actually scratch that, just looked we have Liverpool before the Arsenal game

Yeah, United's fixture list isn't any better....especially considering the stupid ass points already dropped since Ralf took over (let alone the dropped points throughout the season in general).

But I'd rather United be in Europa than the Conference/3rd rate UEFA competition because at least the Europa league contributes nicely to the UEFA Club Coefficient formula for United...and they've gone far in the tournament the past few years since bigger clubs take more interest with it due to automatic qualification in CL and a Super Cup match.

 

[Daydreamer]

Those stats suggest just play counter attack v Arsenal..

That’s exactly right. Our two losses before this were again Liverpool and City - and even those were mainly down to individual errors. We’re so much better when a team tries to go toe-to-toe with us. That allows us to work some combinations, grab a goal or too and then see the game out (bringing on Holding and going five at the back if we’re really under the cosh).

But Palace suffocated us in the first half. When we were finally on top, we missed our chances. Then Odegaard a cheap penalty away and we were finished.

 

[croadyman]

Yeah, United's fixture list isn't any better....especially considering the stupid ass points already dropped since Ralf took over (let alone the dropped points throughout the season in general).

But I'd rather United be in Europa than the Conference/3rd rate UEFA competition because at least the Europa league contributes nicely to the UEFA Club Coefficient formula for United...and they've gone far in the tournament the past few years since bigger clubs take more interest with it due to automatic qualification in CL and a Super Cup match.

Yeah could see this lot easily dropping points away at Everton & Palace before end of the season because mentality is so weak

 

[edcunited1878]

Yeah could see this lot easily dropping points away at Everton & Palace before end of the season because mentality is so weak

Exactly. Not exerting the necessary urgency as a whole. Only some players are putting in an undeniable shift (not including actual execution or top application). But they have to bring the fight and effort first and foremost.

Everton is scrapping for their life, so matching their energy away from home is always important. Palace has been a bit of a bogey team and they are improving as the season goes on.

 

[Withnail]

Rooney second and third in the PL all time for all sorts of goals and assists records and he's also second for the most yellow cards

 

[Wilt]

Arsenal dropping points today? No way

fantastic

 

[Billy Bullcrap]

The simple fact is that none of the teams chasing 4th spot are any good. All have massive frailtie.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Our players and Rangnick let us down majorly at the weekend. A win against Leicester was vital and half of them looked like they didn't care.

 

[Zaphod2319]

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[SirReginald]

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I get what he is saying. Essentially

“we are competing with chelsea and have to play teams with their players and they don’t have that situation themselves. Therefore it’s affecting the competitiveness and integrity of the competition”.

He has a point but it’s not a very good one. The teams meet to vote on and agree, these pre-established competition rules. The level of fairness and integrity is not based on the result of the match or player availability but on these meetings. If you lose it doesn’t suddenly become unfair. If Arsenal or any other team actually produced multiple capable players the same rules would be applied to our matches.

 

[WeePat]

I get what he is saying. Essentially

“we are competing with chelsea and have to play teams with their players and they don’t have that situation themselves. Therefore it’s affecting the competitiveness and integrity of the competition”.

He has a point but it’s not a very good one. The teams meet to vote on and agree, these pre-established competition rules. The level of fairness and integrity is not based on the result of the match or player availability but on these meetings. If you lose it doesn’t suddenly become unfair. If Arsenal or any other team actually produced multiple capable players the same rules would be applied to our matches.

It's funny to hear that guy moan about the integrity of the league, when that particular loan rule is there to protect the integrity of the player and the two teams involved. If Gallager was to be allowed to be play against Chelsea and god forbid had a quiet or bad game against us, that same Arsenal fan would likely be straight in there questioning Gallagher's integrity and intentions.

 

[VP89]

It's funny to hear that guy moan about the integrity of the league, when that particular loan rule is there to protect the integrity of the player and the two teams involved. If Gallager was to be allowed to be play against Chelsea and god forbid had a quiet or bad game against us, that same Arsenal fan would likely be straight in there questioning Gallagher's integrity and intentions.

That's a hypothetical scenario youve created.

I think he has a good point. For example United loaned Lingard last year and he was absolute fire against most opponents, but West Ham can't field him against us. It's a way we (or you, or anyone) can strengthen the odds with loans and play the game. I agree on his point about it not being in line with the integrity of the game

 

[Judas]

I applaud the positivity of those managing to think Arsenal have opened the door for us. The door could be the size of the sun, our lads aren't interested in walking through it.

 

[Hansi Fick]

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He's completely right though. That loaned out players aren't allowed to face their parent club in the PL is an utter disgrace, it's cowardly from the parent clubs and is a massive distortion of competition.
Nowhere else is this abomination of a rule in place or would be accepted - Chelsea might remember that when they stooped so low as to try to prevent Atletico from fielding Courtois against them in CL but didn't get away with it.

 

[WeePat]

That's a hypothetical scenario youve created.

I think he has a good point. For example United loaned Lingard last year and he was absolute fire against most opponents, but West Ham can't field him against us. It's a way we (or you, or anyone) can strengthen the odds with loans and play the game. I agree on his point about it not being in line with the integrity of the game

I mean that's the reason the rule is there, to protect against the scenario you think I've invented out of thin air.

 

[Vidyoyo]

That's a hypothetical scenario youve created.

I think he has a good point. For example United loaned Lingard last year and he was absolute fire against most opponents, but West Ham can't field him against us. It's a way we (or you, or anyone) can strengthen the odds with loans and play the game. I agree on his point about it not being in line with the integrity of the game

I was thinking about it earlier in the week with Broja out against Chelsea. Nothing about the player or Chelsea particularly but it really plays into the loanee's clubs hands when you've got a player who starts week in week out suddenly not available. It changes the dynamic of the loanee's club.

Lingard is another example that obviously benefitted us (well, in theory).

I really think they should by default be allowed to play against their parent clubs so it's fairly spread against all teams. The rules are unfair otherwise.

Edit - Not the same point about Connor Gallagher but related I guess.

 

[Frank Grimes]

I get what he is saying. Essentially

“we are competing with chelsea and have to play teams with their players and they don’t have that situation themselves. Therefore it’s affecting the competitiveness and integrity of the competition”.

He has a point but it’s not a very good one. The teams meet to vote on and agree, these pre-established competition rules. The level of fairness and integrity is not based on the result of the match or player availability but on these meetings. If you lose it doesn’t suddenly become unfair. If Arsenal or any other team actually produced multiple capable players the same rules would be applied to our matches.

He's arguing that the rule is wrong. I agree. I've no problem with any team loaning out players but once they do then that player should be eligible to play against them. Otherwise there is an advantage to being gained.

 

[WeePat]

He's completely right though. That loaned out players aren't allowed to face their parent club in the PL is an utter disgrace, it's cowardly from the parent clubs and is massive distortion of competition.
Nowhere else is this abomination of a rule in place - Chelsea might remember that when they stooped so low as to try to prevent Atletico from fielding Courtois against them in CL but didn't get away with it.

It's in the PL handbook. It's hardly a Chelsea thing ffs. Willock was out here scoring late goals against Spurs last season while Newcastle had to field Andy fecking Carroll against Arsenal twice.

 

[Reapersoul20]

Arsenal have more players out on loan than Chelsea.

Also, if players out on loan were allowed to face their parent club, then there'd be nothing stopping the parent club from saying "play a bit shit there tomorrow lad, remember who butters your biscuit at the end of the day. Contract will be offered only if you score an OG".

 

[Hansi Fick]

It's in the PL handbook. It's hardly a Chelsea thing ffs. Willock was out here scoring late goals against Spurs last season while Newcastle had to field Andy fecking Carroll against Arsenal twice.

I didn't say it's Chelsea's fault. It's a disgrace from the league to have such a rule. You did try to implement that rule though when loaning out Courtois to La Liga - and UEFA rightfully struck it down. It's clear that it's distortion of competition.

 

[Hansi Fick]

He's arguing that the rule is wrong. I agree. I've no problem with any team loaning out players but once they do then that player should be eligible to play against them. Otherwise there is an advantage to being gained.

Exactly.

Especially since usually, loaned out players are very motivated to show their parent club what it's missing out on - people who claim the rule is there to keep players from throwing a game in favour of the club they're loaned out from, instead of giving their all for the team they're currently in, are completely failing to acknowledge the principles and spirit of sport and competition and how it motivates players.
Of course there's certain situations where the player might have a conflict of interest (winning vs the parent club meaning that club loses out on CL for the next season, for example, in which case the player might deprive himself of CL football). In that case the manager of the loan club will have to gauge the players state of mind and decide whether to play or to bench him, like it is the job of a manager before every game.

 

[WeePat]

I didn't say it's Chelsea's fault. It's a disgrace from the league to have such a rule. You did try to implement that rule though when loaning out Courtois to La Liga - and UEFA rightfully struck it down. It's clear that it's distortion of competition.

Their reasoning is to protect the integrity of the player. Whether people agree with that or think its a load of shit is fair enough. That Arsenal fan was just moaning because Gallagher played well against his club. I'm pretty certain he was celebrating Willock helping Newcastle take points off Spurs.

Chelsea did agree to allow Mount and Tomori to play against Chelsea in the cup for Derby. Mount had an assist against us.

 

[VP89]

I mean that's the reason the rule is there, to protect against the scenario you think I've invented out of thin air.

I don't think thats why the rule is there, is it? Players (generally) won't purposely play a shit game against parent clubs. If anything they'd be fired up more to prove their worth

 

[WeePat]

I don't think thats why the rule is there, is it? Players (generally) won't purposely play a shit game against parent clubs. If anything they'd be fired up more to prove their worth

It doesn't explicitly state that in the PL handbook, but that's the reason that's been provided every time it's been brought up. I think they should just let the loan players play. I don't know what the FA's rules are for this, but Chelsea play Palace in the cup semifinal and it would be a fecking crying shame to deprive him of the chance to play at Wembley, an opportunity he has damn well earned.

Clubs don't have a say in it. Even if they permit the loan player to play, the PL forbids it. It's the same in the Portuguese league I believe.

 

[VP89]

It doesn't explicitly state that in the PL handbook, but that's the reason that's been provided every time it's been brought up. I think they should just let the loan players play. I don't know what the FA's rules are for this, but Chelsea play Palace in the cup semifinal and it would be a fecking crying shame to deprive him of the chance to play at Wembley, an opportunity he has damn well earned.

Clubs don't have a say in it. Even if they permit the loan player to play, the PL forbids it. It's the same in the Portuguese league I believe.

I havent heard that logic before but going back to the higher point being made - its not consistent with the integrity of the game.

 

[Zaphod2319]

It doesn't explicitly state that in the PL handbook, but that's the reason that's been provided every time it's been brought up. I think they should just let the loan players play. I don't know what the FA's rules are for this, but Chelsea play Palace in the cup semifinal and it would be a fecking crying shame to deprive him of the chance to play at Wembley, an opportunity he has damn well earned.

Clubs don't have a say in it. Even if they permit the loan player to play, the PL forbids it. It's the same in the Portuguese league I believe.

They changed the rule after we gave Tomori and Mount permission to play. Permission is no longer on the table now, it is just no playing against your club.

The FA Cup rules have been amended recently, and loanees are now expressly prevented from playing against their parent clubs. Mar 20, 2022

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation...n-against-crystal-palace-in-fa-cup-semifinals

 

[big rons sovereign]

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Same old arsenal, always whinging.

 

[WeePat]

I havent heard that logic before but going back to the higher point being made - its not consistent with the integrity of the game.

It's the only logical reason to have the rule.

They changed the rule after we gave Tomori and Mount permission to play. Permission is no longer on the table now, it is just no playing against your club.



https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation...n-against-crystal-palace-in-fa-cup-semifinals

Thanks. That's it then. Gallagher won't get to play the semifinal, even if Chelsea permit it.

 

[SirReginald]

I didn't say it's Chelsea's fault. It's a disgrace from the league to have such a rule. You did try to implement that rule though when loaning out Courtois to La Liga - and UEFA rightfully struck it down. It's clear that it's distortion of competition.

Again, every team votes on rule changes and implementation before the season starts. The league is not a dictatorship, bigger clubs tend to lose a lot of votes being outnumbered by the little ones. Therefore being with the little teams, Arsenal can make a proposal next summer.

 

[V.O.]

Feck tonight's CL games, there's a proper relegation 6-pointer on.

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Who needs Benzema vs Havertz when you've got Lennon vs Iwobi?

 

[marktan]

Feck tonight's CL games, there's a proper relegation 6-pointer on.

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Who needs Benzema vs Havertz when you've got Lennon vs Iwobi?

I want Burnley to go down but I want Everton to lose for the banter.

Everton, Watford and Burnley still have each other to face off a couple of times so would make things more fun.

 

[peridigm]

#freedonny

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

You could tell me the guy in the Burnley graphic is any of the first six outfield players listed and i'd believe it

 

[Samid]

Burnley played like peak Barca in the opening minutes

 

[hellhunter]

Here we go, 1-0 Burnley

 

[Anustart89]

Waiting for Frank's excuses

popcorn.gif

 

[Catt]

Everton...

 

[FootyGirl88]

Too easy for Burnley 1-0

 

[Santos J]

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Everton