Prime Ferdinand or Prime Varane

[Morty_]

Rio was better than Ramos and far more reliable too. I’m not having Ramos anywhere near top 10 best ever with the amount of red cards he got.

Ramos has reached the point where he is underrated, people just think he is a bad defender because of his temperament, i wouldn't be surprised if people here have Varane over him.
Most of the time Ramos is a good defender, a great passer of the ball from CB-position, among other things.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Same stats also says Akanji as the best ball playing CB in PL this season and Kimpembe is the ball playing CB in last 365 days, so Thiago Silva isn't.

I mean Fbref stats back me up here.

I mean if you want to only look at pass completion % as the be all and end all for passing quality then sure? Cherry picking a single (and simplistic) stat out of the entire profile is a pretty heuristic approach but go off if you like.

 

[roonster09]

I mean if you want to only look at pass completion % as the be all and end all for passing quality then sure? Cherry picking a single (and simplistic) stat out of the entire profile is a pretty heuristic approach but go off if you like.

This season in PL Akanji attempted more passes, completed more passes, better pass completion and also has better pass completion for long passes.

Then you have Stones who attempts, completes more passes than both, with better pass completion %, with much better pass completion % for long passes. Both also make more progressive passes than Thiago Silva.

I don't think it's wrong to argue Thiago Silva is best passer as he surely is or very close to top but when you use "stats back me up", you should expect posts where stats also back up something that you don't believe.

 

[The Corinthian]

Shouldn't it be prime van Dijk vs prime Rio vs prime Varane?

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

This season in PL Akanji attempted more passes, completed more passes, better pass completion and also has better pass completion for long passes.

Then you have Stones who attempts, completes more passes than both, with better pass completion %, with much better pass completion % for long passes. Both also make more progressive passes than Thiago Silva.

I don't think it's wrong to argue Thiago Silva is best passer as he surely is or very close to top but when you use "stats back me up", you should expect posts where stats also back up something that you don't believe.

That's a much more cogent argument!

I'd counter with Silva blowing them both out of the water by an absolute mile in progressive passing distance - both in terms of absolute distance and in terms of the percentage of total passing distance that is progressive. Personally I think that's a better way to judge the degree of difficulty of passes attempted rather than segmenting it by distance - though Stones' long passing is of course impressive it does seem to be a lot of switches that aren't necessarily going that far up the pitch.

Just as an aside, it would also be nice if fbref offered possession-adjusted data - given City are an outlier even compared to Chelsea that's worth considering if we're looking purely at volume numbers. But that's neither here nor there.

 

[Drizzle]

I voted Rio, but it's not quite as clear cut as some make out. On the ball there's no comparison. Rio was a true Rolls Royce, oozed class, calm and technique. Varane is fine on the ball but hardly in that class.

People may forget but Rio was definitely prone to mistakes defensively, often losing concentration at key moments. Usually he recovered due to his speed and composure. Varane's defensive instincts and understanding are better I think.

Overall Rio the better player. Across his career he could claim to be in the top 2 or 3 ever PL defenders. But he wasn't perfect.

 

[edcunited1878]

Howcome no 'Eboue'?

 

[Borys]

When do we have Vidic vs Martinez debate? I guess licha needs to stay on current level for another couple of seasons but he's probably in his prime right now.
Rio for me in this contest.

 

[poleglass red]

I voted Rio, but it's not quite as clear cut as some make out. On the ball there's no comparison. Rio was a true Rolls Royce, oozed class, calm and technique. Varane is fine on the ball but hardly in that class.

People may forget but Rio was definitely prone to mistakes defensively, often losing concentration at key moments. Usually he recovered due to his speed and composure. Varane's defensive instincts and understanding are better I think.

Overall Rio the better player. Across his career he could claim to be in the top 2 or 3 ever PL defenders. But he wasn't perfect.

I liked Rio, but I wasn't as big as fan as some. He could be prone to errors. I just feel he and Vidic were such a great combination, a bit like how Rio and Sol Cambell were as well, particulary at the world cup. We had a great defence overall, I stand corrected if wrong, but didn't Evans partner Vidic for all or most of the clean sheets record we broke back in the day.

 

[tentan]

I liked Rio, but I wasn't as big as fan as some. He could be prone to errors. I just feel he and Vidic were such a great combination, a bit like how Rio and Sol Cambell were as well, particulary at the world cup. We had a great defence overall, I stand corrected if wrong, but didn't Evans partner Vidic for all or most of the clean sheets record we broke back in the day.

 

[Sauxees Moi Hui]

Ferdinand was ridiculously good. I think he might even be a bit underrated. Hardly ever had to tackle anyone because his positioning was always sublime, and he made any CB partner he had look a much better player. Even Mikael Silvestre looked kinda okay next to him.

It is true that he was good for one lapse of concentration per match in his early years with us, but I think that trait of his eventually disappeared.

 

[criticalanalysis]

While I do agree Rio is better, you're certainly doing Varane a disservice here. He tends to look surprisingly clumsy on the ball (at times it almost reminds of Smalling), but ignore how it 'looks' and focus on what he does with it and he's obviously quite good. He regularly plays good passes both through the centre and going longer out out wide, and is also quite good at bringing it forward himself.

I've said the same, especially the Smalling bit. He has such an 'unnatural', gangly, gait and posture that it's comical to me because he's such an athletic beast too. You'd think a professional footballer would look smoother or agile but actually most of the time he's a very decent passer and one that actually takes the initiative.

It's all well looking technically classy and proficient but not really executing at will or in a proactive way e.g Lindelof.

 

[kouroux]

Prime Rio is untouchable

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Rio obviously

 

[Get In Scholesy]

Prime Rio is one of the greatest to ever play the game. Prime Varane is one of the best of his generation. It’s prime Rio for me. That’s how I see it anyways.

However if you ask me who I’d rather have a conversation with right now, might have to say Varane. Rio is coming off more and more cringey by the day, might be all the media he does.

Worth noting that this is heavily based on the assumption that Varane is past his prime… who knows, maybe we have yet to see Prime Varane

 

[Bert_]

Varane is a fecking beast, but it's not even close.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Ramos has reached the point where he is underrated, people just think he is a bad defender because of his temperament, i wouldn't be surprised if people here have Varane over him.
Most of the time Ramos is a good defender, a great passer of the ball from CB-position, among other things.

Ramos is anything but underrated.

 

[Joel Miller]

Rio by a distance. The Ferdinand - Vidic partnership is about as good a centre half pairing as I’ve ever seen in football.

 

[Bert_]

I voted Rio, but it's not quite as clear cut as some make out. On the ball there's no comparison. Rio was a true Rolls Royce, oozed class, calm and technique. Varane is fine on the ball but hardly in that class.

People may forget but Rio was definitely prone to mistakes defensively, often losing concentration at key moments. Usually he recovered due to his speed and composure. Varane's defensive instincts and understanding are better I think.

Overall Rio the better player. Across his career he could claim to be in the top 2 or 3 ever PL defenders. But he wasn't perfect.

In his early days, for sure. Could count on one hand the times he did that from around 2005 onwards. Rio, Nesta, Maldini. The very top of the game from the 00s onwards. None of them have been matched by anyone since.

 

[SirReginald]

Ramos has reached the point where he is underrated, people just think he is a bad defender because of his temperament, i wouldn't be surprised if people here have Varane over him.
Most of the time Ramos is a good defender, a great passer of the ball from CB-position, among other things.

I’m not under rating him. I would never never have had him anywhere near my team. A top athlete and sportsman is as much about his mentality as it is about his ability, natural or earned. While he was undoubtedly a great player, I will never consider him amongst the greatest regardless of his trophy haul.

 

[Morty_]

I’m not under rating him. I would never never have had him anywhere near my team. A top athlete and sportsman is as much about his mentality as it is about his ability, natural or earned. While he was undoubtedly a great player, I will never consider him amongst the greatest regardless of his trophy haul.

Its not about the trophy haul, its his part in it, which was substantial for a cb.
I have watched RM a lot, do you really think i counted the trophies, and thats my reason for rating him?