Project Spark

[Alock1]

Storm Bomb! - Snow hits the level, enemy characters freeze for 8 seconds and are incapable of blocking/attacking.

About being able to have destructible territory, the ability to edit in play would be a really cool dynamic for a game like Super Smash Bros if you had some control over what they could edit. Lets say you allowed them to complete adapt the terrain, they could make blockades or shields, or distract an enemy by chucking a monster into the game, or give themself a new spell.

It's mostly just a question of controls, but they've spoke about having different game modes/options/rules for your levels so I imagine you can completely control what they will be able to do if you were to allow them to mod-in-play. Most importantly you would have to stop people being able to kill eachother too easily or giving themselves unlimited health.

It would be totally awesome if you could make it so spells do a max damage of y and x, that players cannot have max hp of other a certain amount, etc.etc.

If you had a 1vs1 combat fight, I would start on a neutral level and at each side there would be a portal to two different levels which would be considered 'home turf' for each of the characters. Enter your enemies turf and you regenerate all your health, but you do so knowing that they will have an advantage on that turf against you - and you can't leave that turf for x seconds.

Also, I think that many people will offer brains, characters and shiz just for the recognition - they will get their name out there and make youtube tutorials for brains or just give their brains away just for the sake of it. We see it all the time on other games, people just enjoy making shit and get kicks out of other people using it - a lot of creative people find plenty of motivation in just seeing their creations getting used, without the need for any monetary incentives.

 

[KingEric7]

Storm Bomb! - Snow hits the level, enemy characters freeze for 8 seconds and are incapable of blocking/attacking.

About being able to have destructible territory, the ability to edit in play would be a really cool dynamic for a game like Super Smash Bros if you had some control over what they could edit. Lets say you allowed them to complete adapt the terrain, they could make blockades or shields, or distract an enemy by chucking a monster into the game, or give themself a new spell.

It's mostly just a question of controls, but they've spoke about having different game modes/options/rules for your levels so I imagine you can completely control what they will be able to do if you were to allow them to mod-in-play. Most importantly you would have to stop people being able to kill eachother too easily or giving themselves unlimited health.

It would be totally awesome if you could make it so spells do a max damage of y and x, that players cannot have max hp of other a certain amount, etc.etc.

If you had a 1vs1 combat fight, I would start on a neutral level and at each side there would be a portal to two different levels which would be considered 'home turf' for each of the characters. Enter your enemies turf and you regenerate all your health, but you do so knowing that they will have an advantage on that turf against you - and you can't leave that turf for x seconds.

Also, I think that many people will offer brains, characters and shiz just for the recognition - they will get their name out there and make youtube tutorials for brains or just give their brains away just for the sake of it. We see it all the time on other games, people just enjoy making shit and get kicks out of other people using it - a lot of creative people find plenty of motivation in just seeing their creations getting used, without the need for any monetary incentives.

This is all sounding like music to me. I went into this stuff with Project Spark obsessing about the sort of RPG that could be make, but damn there are going to be some excellent Nintendo type games that come out of this hopefully. Shit, the first Super Smash Bros. game is still amazing even now, so if things like that start coming out I'll be absolutely delighted.

True about that last point, by the way. That probably sounded pessimistic but I definitely agree with that. People already do it with mods so there's no reason people wouldn't do it with this.

Any word on the next stream by the way?

 

[Alock1]

It was tonight and then next one is Thursday I believe. I was gonna post it here but it wasnt on youtube immediately after. Ill check again when I get to the PC.

Have any other game developers been so committed to showcasing their game, holding streams, answering questions etc. as this?


Most definitely dude.. I cant think of anything you couldnt incorporate over from Smash bros except the characters. Can you?

Whats brilliant is you could make it on your windows 8 PC or Xbox but choose to have it run on a touch tablet for bus journeys and shiz.

This would be a killer app for a handheld, shame Microsoft isnt in that business.

 

[KingEric7]

There we are. I don't think anyone else actually cares to be honest but that's today's.
Mentalists... I thought the Minecraft fans would've been all over this.

It was tonight and then next one is Thursday I believe. I was gonna post it here but it wasnt on youtube immediately after. Ill check again when I get to the PC.

Have any other game developers been so committed to showcasing their game, holding streams, answering questions etc. as this?

Doubt it. All they do is sit there, act on a couple of the infinite possible requests, and then that's that and it's an hour well spent. Can't imagine it's as easy with any other game to do something like that. I just quickly checked through that video to see what was happening and the first thing I saw was them doing a floating island.

Most definitely dude.. I cant think of anything you couldnt incorporate over from Smash bros except the characters. Can you?

Whats brilliant is you could make it on your windows 8 PC or Xbox but choose to have it run on a touch tablet for bus journeys and shiz.

This would be a killer app for a handheld, shame Microsoft isnt in that business.

Definitely all within the capabilities of Project Spark. Weapons, items, abilities, levels, combos, everything. It's just the physics and animations that would take a fair bit of work.

 

[Redlambs]

What, you mean in general or this thread?

Because like I say in general this has been done before, not on this scale of course, but people in modding communities probably aren't as keen since there'll be modding on the xb1 as well as PC.

As for this thread, well I guess it's a wait and see thing. There's little point going overboard until we get it and know what's what, I think 99.9% of the output is going to fall waaaaaay below the standards you are expected.

I must confess I'm enjoying both of your enthusiasm though (in a good way!) and I will be having a dabble myself. In fact I have the perfect idea for a redcafe game, that'll will be a great learning curve and as many people could get involved with as possible, even just creating their own characters or helping out with the full design.

Speaking of which, Eric have you started a design doc for your game? Or just story? Because believe me, even the smallest of ideas needs a design doc because it helps you keep track of it all, see what you are getting yourself into and most importantly will help keep you focused. Closer to the time when we know even more about what's possible I don't mind giving pointers and help on that front, god knows I've written enough

 

[KingEric7]

What, you mean in general or this thread?

Because like I say in general this has been done before, not on this scale of course, but people in modding communities probably aren't as keen since there'll be modding on the xb1 as well as PC.

As for this thread, well I guess it's a wait and see thing. There's little point going overboard until we get it and know what's what, I think 99.9% of the output is going to fall waaaaaay below the standards you are expected.

I must confess I'm enjoying both of your enthusiasm though (in a good way!) and I will be having a dabble myself. In fact I have the perfect idea for a redcafe game, that'll will be a great learning curve and as many people could get involved with as possible, even just creating their own characters or helping out with the full design.

Speaking of which, Eric have you started a design doc for your game? Or just story? Because believe me, even the smallest of ideas needs a design doc because it helps you keep track of it all, see what you are getting yourself into and most importantly will help keep you focused. Closer to the time when we know even more about what's possible I don't mind giving pointers and help on that front, god knows I've written enough

Not sure what this is in response to, but I'm excited about what it is instead of how innovative or new it is. If I were to see a nuclear bomb go off, I wouldn't stand there and go "meh...they've done loads of that shit in the Pacific already...". I've probably missed the point you were making there though so never mind. I've already said in the other thread though that I think a huge, huge percentage of content will fall flat, and that I'm hoping instead that it's that fraction of a percent that will make this great. If a tiny, tiny percentage of, what, the millions of efforts over the next 6-7 years are good/really good, then that'll be a roaring success in my eyes. Don't see that as really going overboard, to be honest. Any speculation from me and Alock about Nintendo games after all is done in context of what is possible; I certainly do not willfully expect to be able to make something that good. I'll get extremely excited about the sort of stuff that is clearly possible, but I won't be under any illusions as to the challenge itself.


Aye I have, by the way. I wish I hadn't because I can't stop thinking about it and it's doing my head in. 3 characters are fully envisioned at this point as well as about 70% of the plot, which is clearly absolutely feck all in the grand scheme of things. Like I said before, it is hilarious how long it would take to make this on Project Spark - it would years and years for a single person to complete and I hold no real hope of ever making it.

 

[Alock1]

That's just the point for me though Redlambs, you've hit the nail on the head 'not on this scale' - that's killer here.

Even if Project Spark had ALL been done before (most has, but not all, and not in one package), it's never been very accessible or out there. A free download on Xbox 360 and Xbox One is pretty much a guaranteed download for most users on XBL. It's free, it's an extra game, with hundreds of games within. Include that it'll be on Windows 8 and also in some form on tablets (atleast Windows ones) and the potential user base for this is HUGE.

I'm certain there will be 1,000 games out there in no time(could see this number just in the BETA), if 90% are dud and rubbish, that's still 100 games.

I've never seen a package offer everything that Project Spark does, especially not coupled with the ease of use and tools. I know you're in a better position than me to judge, but I do have friends who've done a whole lot of creating on RPG Maker and java/ajax games online and they are incredibly impressed and surprised at everything it offers. But it's the reach that this will have that gives it it's biggest potential.

 

[Redlambs]

That's just the point for me though Redlambs, you've hit the nail on the head 'not on this scale' - that's killer here.

Even if Project Spark had ALL been done before (most has, but not all, and not in one package), it's never been very accessible or out there. A free download on Xbox 360 and Xbox One is pretty much a guaranteed download for most users on XBL. It's free, it's an extra game, with hundreds of games within. Include that it'll be on Windows 8 and also in some form on tablets (atleast Windows ones) and the potential user base for this is HUGE.

I'm certain there will be 1,000 games out there in no time(could see this number just in the BETA), if 90% are dud and rubbish, that's still 100 games.

I've never seen a package offer everything that Project Spark does, especially not coupled with the ease of use and tools. I know you're in a better position than me to judge, but I do have friends who've done a whole lot of creating on RPG Maker and java/ajax games online and they are incredibly impressed and surprised at everything it offers. But it's the reach that this will have that gives it it's biggest potential.

We aren't disagreeing mate, you are just misreading my point. This is a brilliant way to introduce people to this sort of thing and I'm looking forward to it.

But you can't compare it to modding (and certainly not rpg maker) because it's not trying to or supposed to be about that. It's not about making full huge titles or making money, it's highly unlikely you'll get many people at all entering the industry directly off the back of it.

And that's what makes it great, it's supposed to be educational, a programming language in it's own right and leading people on to more involved things (like modding), or just having fun! It's a stepping stone, a chance for people to really put into practice those amazing ideas and learn what it takes to see a project through. And that's amazing really. It's a shame it's predecessor really wasn't noticed, but yourself and Eric really should go and get that right now and start learning because it'll give you a great insight into Spark.

 

[Redlambs]

Not sure what this is in response to, but I'm excited about what it is instead of how innovative or new it is. If I were to see a nuclear bomb go off, I wouldn't stand there and go "meh...they've done loads of that shit in the Pacific already...". I've probably missed the point you were making there though so never mind. I've already said in the other thread though that I think a huge, huge percentage of content will fall flat, and that I'm hoping instead that it's that fraction of a percent that will make this great. If a tiny, tiny percentage of, what, the millions of efforts over the next 6-7 years are good/really good, then that'll be a roaring success in my eyes. Don't see that as really going overboard, to be honest. Any speculation from me and Alock about Nintendo games after all is done in context of what is possible; I certainly do not willfully expect to be able to make something that good. I'll get extremely excited about the sort of stuff that is clearly possible, but I won't be under any illusions as to the challenge itself.


Aye I have, by the way. I wish I hadn't because I can't stop thinking about it and it's doing my head in. 3 characters are fully envisioned at this point as well as about 70% of the plot, which is clearly absolutely feck all in the grand scheme of things. Like I said before, it is hilarious how long it would take to make this on Project Spark - it would years and years for a single person to complete and I hold no real hope of ever making it.

It was when you said people didn't seem to care, I was just wondering what you meant by that is all mate, and you did miss my point but that's cool.

As for your game yes it sound like a serious undertaking and realistically mate Spark probably isn't the best platform for that anyway!

This is why I said smaller things should be tried first. We should definitely get a few of us together and do a team redcafe game or two if people are interested as a learning curve. It'll give you, for example, a much clearer idea of what can be done in relation to your game and how to scale it. BTW that was one of the big things I was good at and why I very nearly took a design job at Rockstar north, I'm great at taking ideas and making them work (largely due to my programming background), any genre any scale, so if you ever want to bounce ideas and get any input, then I'm happy to help or give any knowledge I can.

 

[KingEric7]

It was when you said people didn't seem to care, I was just wondering what you meant by that is all mate, and you did miss my point but that's cool.

Ah, I see. Sorry, it wasn't too clear without a quote. I meant on here.

As for your game yes it sound like a serious undertaking and realistically mate Spark probably isn't the best platform for that anyway!

This is why I said smaller things should be tried first. We should definitely get a few of us together and do a team redcafe game or two if people are interested as a learning curve. It'll give you, for example, a much clearer idea of what can be done in relation to your game and how to scale it. BTW that was one of the big things I was good at and why I very nearly took a design job at Rockstar north, I'm great at taking ideas and making them work (largely due to my programming background), any genre any scale, so if you ever want to bounce ideas and get any input, then I'm happy to help or give any knowledge I can.

Realistically, Spark is the only platform for someone like myself, even if it isn't...realistic. Regardless, the most challenging aspect - the dialogue and personalities for all the NPCs and characters - will be there no matter what software is used.

I'm not too arsed like I say if I never end up finishing or if it's over-reaching. You can start small with a game just by working on individual facets, before then growing into that game and trying out more stuff. If I ever give up, I'll know a lot more about how to go about a much easier task afterwards. There are different ways of starting small I think, and you needn't necessarily start with a small game.

*Cheers, by the way. I will probably reserve the idea for a later date if it doesn't work out (I'm too proud of it as a plot to let it be reduced into something smaller!), but thank you. I will certainly keep that in mind.

Was going to say actually, you've been saying in this thread about this being a teaching/learning device. It's certainly not being promoted that way and I don't think anyone going into it is thinking about it in that light. I'm not thinking "I want to learn"; I'm thinking "I want to make an amazing game". That might be what you see it as when you line it up next to the sort of stuff you've worked on, but its quite clear from watching these streams that the developers and creators of Project Spark do not see this piece of software in that light. They're genuinely excited to see how people use it, as are the people anticipating its release. The primary objective clearly is for Microsoft to make money, but there is no indication from anyone that this is being brought out as a learning tool. Learning is a part of it and you are right in that it is not being brought out in order that people will publish games, but the intentions of the developers themselves are very clear; they're constantly running these streams and making sure everything is in even the Beta to help people make the best games possible.

In turn spurring people on to spunk a shite load of cash on extra content, obviously...

 

[Revan]

Not sure what this is in response to, but I'm excited about what it is instead of how innovative or new it is. If I were to see a nuclear bomb go off, I wouldn't stand there and go "meh...they've done loads of that shit in the Pacific already...". I've probably missed the point you were making there though so never mind. I've already said in the other thread though that I think a huge, huge percentage of content will fall flat, and that I'm hoping instead that it's that fraction of a percent that will make this great. If a tiny, tiny percentage of, what, the millions of efforts over the next 6-7 years are good/really good, then that'll be a roaring success in my eyes. Don't see that as really going overboard, to be honest. Any speculation from me and Alock about Nintendo games after all is done in context of what is possible; I certainly do not willfully expect to be able to make something that good. I'll get extremely excited about the sort of stuff that is clearly possible, but I won't be under any illusions as to the challenge itself.


Aye I have, by the way. I wish I hadn't because I can't stop thinking about it and it's doing my head in. 3 characters are fully envisioned at this point as well as about 70% of the plot, which is clearly absolutely feck all in the grand scheme of things. Like I said before, it is hilarious how long it would take to make this on Project Spark - it would years and years for a single person to complete and I hold no real hope of ever making it.

Hey, you're thinking to make a game? Awesome idea (if you can). JRPG I suppose?

About Project Spark, I am not much informed on that (strange considering how much I look into these type of things). How it would be? Betetr than RPG maker? Also, which programming languages it will support?

 

[Revan]

It was when you said people didn't seem to care, I was just wondering what you meant by that is all mate, and you did miss my point but that's cool.

As for your game yes it sound like a serious undertaking and realistically mate Spark probably isn't the best platform for that anyway!

This is why I said smaller things should be tried first. We should definitely get a few of us together and do a team redcafe game or two if people are interested as a learning curve. It'll give you, for example, a much clearer idea of what can be done in relation to your game and how to scale it. BTW that was one of the big things I was good at and why I very nearly took a design job at Rockstar north, I'm great at taking ideas and making them work (largely due to my programming background), any genre any scale, so if you ever want to bounce ideas and get any input, then I'm happy to help or give any knowledge I can.

Count me in if you're serious about this, and of course you need people who can work on it. About the tools, I really don't know much about Spark, but will it better than let's say Unity?

 

[KingEric7]

Hey, you're thinking to make a game? Awesome idea (if you can). JRPG I suppose?

About Project Spark, I am not much informed on that (strange considering how much I look into these type of things). How it would be? Betetr than RPG maker? Also, which programming languages it will support?

You alright, Revan. Well the one I have in mind is a bit of a pipe-dream on my part (action RPG), but that's what Project Spark is about, yeah. If you were really, really good you could make a KOTOR sort of game, which I know you'd enjoy!

Have a look at that video in the OP to get an idea of what it's about. If not all of it, just bits here and there (I watched one and now I'm watching them all religiously) or, failing that, there's a 5 minute or so one that Alock posted that should get the point across. It's a lot better and more advanced than something like RPG maker and you could make any type of game you wanted, really. They've already showed FPS, Action RPG, Turn Based RPG, 2D side scroller, racing, Angry Birds, platformers, etc...

Couldn't say anything about programming languages. I don't have a clue what's going on with that sort of stuff to be honest, but I think the idea is that it bypasses the need for that sort of knowledge. I think it's right to say that it's its own language - a piece of software tailored for beginners, but with great potential.

 

[KingEric7]

Storm Bomb! - Snow hits the level, enemy characters freeze for 8 seconds and are incapable of blocking/attacking.

About being able to have destructible territory, the ability to edit in play would be a really cool dynamic for a game like Super Smash Bros if you had some control over what they could edit. Lets say you allowed them to complete adapt the terrain, they could make blockades or shields, or distract an enemy by chucking a monster into the game, or give themself a new spell.

It's mostly just a question of controls, but they've spoke about having different game modes/options/rules for your levels so I imagine you can completely control what they will be able to do if you were to allow them to mod-in-play. Most importantly you would have to stop people being able to kill eachother too easily or giving themselves unlimited health.

It would be totally awesome if you could make it so spells do a max damage of y and x, that players cannot have max hp of other a certain amount, etc.etc.

...

Super Smash Brothers Brawl was specifically mentioned on the latest stream. He pretty much wafted the question away as if it was obvious that something like that could be done.

*By the way Alock, they keep talking about a big reveal. I'm thinking this might be online multiplayer in-game...what say you? That'd go down nicely. Not just cooperatively creating but cooperatively playing.

 

[Revan]

You alright, Revan. Well the one I have in mind is a bit of a pipe-dream on my part, but that's what Project Spark is about, yeah. If you were really, really good you could make a KOTOR sort of game, which I know you'd enjoy!

Have a look at that video in the OP to get an idea of what it's about. If not all of it, just bits here and there (I watched one and now I'm watching them all religiously) or, failing that, there's a 5 minute or so one that Alock posted that should get the point across. It's a lot better and more advanced than something like RPG maker and you could make any type of game you wanted, really. They've already showed FPS, Action RPG, Turn Based RPG, 2D side scroller, racing, Angry Birds, platformers, etc...

Couldn't say anything about programming languages. I don't have a clue what's going on with that sort of stuff to be honest, but I think the idea is that it bypasses the need for that sort of knowledge. I think it's right to say that it's its own language - a piece of software tailored for beginners, but with great potential.

Thanks. About making an entire game myself, it's a bit hopeless for me right now cause even if I have a good idea (which at the moment I have only bits of it which unsurprisingly are influenced by Kotor and Mass Effect) and can deal somehow with the programming (if that is needed, which I think you would need some of it in particular cases), still I would be totaly hopeless when it comes to art/design.

But yeah, will look at it even if it is just in an 'academical level' and probably try to make something on 2D, which hopefully I won't need years to do that.

 

[KingEric7]

Thanks. About making an entire game myself, it's a bit hopeless for me right now cause even if I have a good idea (which at the moment I have only bits of it which unsurprisingly are influenced by Kotor and Mass Effect) and can deal somehow with the programming (if that is needed, which I think you would need some of it in particular cases), still I would be totaly hopeless when it comes to art/design.

But yeah, will look at it even if it is just in an 'academical level' and probably try to make something on 2D, which hopefully I won't need years to do that.

No problem. If you watch the videos you'll see there is definitely programming, but I mean in the sense that it's laid out so as to make it accessible for a lot more people. It's a "when" and "do" format, with a whole load of options coming under each category. They keep stressing that there is pretty much a way to do everything if you are smart and dedicated enough, whether that be working in realistic physics or something else. They specifically keep talking about Forza actually and saying that something like that is theoretically possible.

I find that sort of thing unimaginable but I'm in no position to argue with the developers themselves.

 

[Alock1]

It's got it's own visual tile language ahh.. it's definitely much more complicated than if/when though or seems to be when you get into the complexities of the brain but luckily how far you delve into that is going to depend on how confident and willing you are to do so.

On one of the streams there was a pretty big hint that you'll be able to play co-operatively aswel as make co-operatively KingEric7, it was about a certain type of game and the guy said something like ' a few of you could jump in..' sort of throwaway remark which never really got picked up on. I wish I had made a note now, but I mostly watch these late at night and forgot the details.

On one of the more recent streams he said that multiplayer details would come 'later, later' when they could 'show it off' and not just talk about it. Quite a few topics they have spoke about how they don't want to be bragging and boasting about features that then can't be lived up to in reality - and that everything they talk about they want to be showing you - which is fair enough personally. But for that reason he said it would be a while before we would see anything on multiplayer.

I really have no idea what big surprise it could be.. (beta?) release date maybe? I have no idea.

 

[KingEric7]

Fair enough regarding the when/do issue. I didn't mean to make it sound simplified - there looks a ton of stuff amongst that. Just giving a basic outline of the format. From what I've seen so far, you can start off by, for example, clicking "when - press A", then do "shoot fireball"...then go into that fireball and then do a whole load of shit. Alter speeds, physics, colours, animations, everything. Then you can link this to other pages, events, characters, etc and have a whole chain of stuff going on just with that fireball.

That would be quite an attractive proposition regarding the multiplayer... One of those things that could make it go as viral as it deserves to. I think it'd be great if someone made a sort of FPS game but with a shit tonne of spells instead of guns. Sort of like an Elder Scrolls game with combat that is actually addictive and fun.

 

[Alock1]

http://www.ripten.com/2013/06/17/project-spark-multiplayer-is-dungeon-master-capable/

Those of us who have been creating our own game maps since the advent of map editors and playing neighborhood dungeon master since we learned to write, might be happy to know that I received confirmation that Project Spark multiplayer will allow us to create our own worlds and play dungeon master to a group of friends if we desire to do so. What I was told by the Project Spark developer was that if a player such as myself wanted to create a world and invite my friends in to play as a specific character type (i.e. goblin), I could alter the world while they play in real time.

Now this doesn’t mean that there is a dungeon master mode in the game, but it does mean that we will have the ability to create a game type that emulates the approach. Sounds good right? Well, with great power comes micro-transaction upgrade-ability. Since this wonderful revaluation at E3, Project Spark has also been confirmed as a free-to-play title, meaning creative types like ourselves will potentially need to ready our wallets for micro-transaction hell. Only time will tell just how far they take the nickle and dime element, but as of right now the game will launch with a basic starter set of options that we can build upon for a price.

I was very impressed with my Spark behind-closed-doors session at E3, so much so that I could see myself building and creating in this game for days straight when it officially becomes available for the Xbox One. And that’s a good thing because Project Spark has been confirmed by Microsoft as a day one digital download in line with the release of the Xbox One in November.

--
Article is actually from June, I think they decided collectively to refuse multiplayer details for the time being and this got slipped. Like I said I'm fairly certain that something got said in one of the streams that pretty much nigh on confirmed multiplayer gaming (maybe to do with the kart racing discussion they had).

Btw, how fecking awesome is that?

 

[Redlambs]

I wondered when the issue of paying for the actual features you'll need would come up. I hate the term 'free to play' as all those games are designed and balanced to get you to buy shit anyway.

Don't get me wrong, this is probably the kind of thing definitely worth paying some money for, but let's see how much eh? And how far the costs go...

 

[Dargonk]

wait so it isn't going to be free then. What do you actually get to start with? I hardly like the idea of playing through and creating stuff only to find brain tile X and Y which I've seen on the streams and perfectly does what I want isn't available unless I pay a couple of dollars for each one.

If it is anything like that, I think I'll just give the whole thing a miss as it would just annoy me every single time. Either cut corners and don't do exactly what I wanted or pay up extra cash for a game.


Good to see that multiplayer games are able to be created as well.

 

[Redlambs]

I'd imagine a lot of the cost will be things like graphic and sound packs, but I can see them doing stuff with physics and A.I too.

It'd be shit if it was tools and that though.

 

[ciderman9000000]

You'd probably be able to purchase the complete game for a RRP though. Did you expect to just get the whole thing for free?

 

[Redlambs]

You'd probably be able to purchase the complete game for a RRP though. Did you expect to just get the whole thing for free?

Of course not, that's not the point either.

And I doubt you'll get the whole package for a set price, since it'll be an organic thing. Maybe a certain amount of content for a set price or something, or possibly a content pass.

 

[Revan]

You'd probably be able to purchase the complete game for a RRP though. Did you expect to just get the whole thing for free?

Excellent idea. And they to get a % of profit from people who sell games which are developed on Project Spark.

 

[ciderman9000000]

Excellent idea. And they to get a % of profit from people who sell games which are developed on Project Spark.

I've not heard about how projects will be distributed but was under the impression that they'd be freeware. Perhaps not.

 

[Redlambs]

The point isn't to sell games, this isn't a game engine in that way.

All the better for it too.

 

[Redlambs]

Right, one of the criticisms I've had on here lately (mostly down to Cider, and he has a point) is that I seem to know a lot but don't often elaborate enough. Well not like I used to, and that makes it seem as if I'm like Weaste all aloof and better than everyone else. That's not true, it's time. But I have a spare bit now, so let me elaborate for you Eric, because I think you greatly misunderstood most of what I've said and I'm largely to blame for that.

First of all, clarification about your project, I think you should go for it. I'm not trying to tell you it's too big and grandiose to ever achieve - feck that, you have to aim high! It's hilarious, if you'd ever meet anyone from the many teams I've been on they'd all say the same thing - feck him and his ideas! I always wanted to, and still do, push and if I thought of something good I'd make damn sure it worked. It's what set me apart and why I got so successful at it. I've been doing this since the early 90's, all by myself in my bedroom right up to leading a number of professional titles via some major indie teams, and I can tell you I've scrapped far more than I've finished. By a long way. Coupled with that, I've also had the pleasure of working with and teaching/learning from quite a few guys who are in the industry right now, working on major titles as we speak (it's not coincidence I know so much about what's happening with consoles/games and all that - even if I do have to be very careful with what I tell you guys!). If circumstances were different, I myself would be working (probably still) for Rockstar right now and just having GTA5 out the door. But none of that means as a game designer that my ideas or thoughts are better, it just doesn't work like that. For example if you bounced ideas for your project off of me, and I suggest something that you don't like, do you think I'd be pissed if you told me what I said was a load of shit? feck no, I'd have a lot more respect for that. Remember, it's YOUR project and YOU alone need to retain a clear vision and creative control. However, doing it alone is brain damage and whether or not you like the ideas, bouncing thoughts off other people is the only real way to clarify your vision and be sure you are right and it will work. There's no right or wrong way to design a game and ideas can't be taught. There's no way I'd ever think differently, I love hearing people's ideas for games and they are often better than your own anyway! Molyneux taught me that, it doesn't matter if you get paid for it or not, ideas are free and everyone is on an equal footing there.

What I can and will offer, is experience. I know exactly what it takes to get projects finished and keep them focused. From single level indie shooters on the Yaroze, right up to high end games on major consoles, I've done it and for a lot of it lead the way. Does that mean you should just do whatever I say how i say it? Again, feck no. Tell me to feck off all you like if you disagree. But it's up to you if you listen and at least take on board my advice, because believe me I've been exactly where you are, I love your enthusiasm and if I can I'd like to help you avoid the major pitfalls and give you and anyone else a head start. Hey, it can't hurt to have someone around who you can call on when you get stuck at least right?

So on to your points:

Realistically, Spark is the only platform for someone like myself, even if it isn't...realistic. Regardless, the most challenging aspect - the dialogue and personalities for all the NPCs and characters - will be there no matter what software is used.

Yes and no. That's all design mate, that comes down to how much you want to plan and write everything. NPC's and their scripts should be easy in Spark as they are in general.

I'm not too arsed like I say if I never end up finishing or if it's over-reaching.

You'll regret that attitude, you are almost giving yourself an excuse to lose interest. You really want to put months, even years into this only for it to just end up a mess of ideas and failures?

I'm not saying you have to expect to finish it and shoehorn everything in, I'm saying your goal is to enjoy creating your work of art and getting it to a point where if even a single person takes interest you can relax and see it through their eyes. You'll never be 100% happy with it, even if you did finish it, but you should at least enjoy it!

You can start small with a game just by working on individual facets, before then growing into that game and trying out more stuff. If I ever give up, I'll know a lot more about how to go about a much easier task afterwards. There are different ways of starting small I think, and you needn't necessarily start with a small game.

No, not at all. Believe me, this it the first step to frustration and there'll not be any indies worth their salt that will tell you any different.

I'm not saying you have to create full reaching games to learn, but you should create fun little mini levels to test ideas and most importantly they should be different to the game you are making to keep your mind fresh. Why do you think, for example, Rockstar made that table tennis game? A new engine to test and work out ideas and kinks on, that wasn't the only one they made loads of little games like that - nearly every game starts with little smaller ones that are made around the office, it just happened that they could flog that one. But it shows my point.

Let's say, for example, you spend weeks on a beautiful scrolling level and are happy with it. Then you realise the physics of your character don't feel right, or you want to introduce a new magic that blows the ground up, what do you think may happen? You break the flow and design of the level, and that's something that escalates as you try to change and patch things, and before you know it you have a mess and need to start from scratch.

Spark is perfect for this. Imagine setting out a number of little floating islands in one space, each is for a different thing? You could make a fun little mini-game to test spells, how about a little football game on another to test physic properties and movement, how about a big 3D tic tac toe game on another to test lighting and particle effects? How about a game of space invaders in 3D on another level to see the effects of explosions on the ground and around you?

You see what I'm saying? You need to keep that stuff away from the main game as much as possible, learn by doing. Then when you start to bring it all together, you won't get it bang on from the start and there will always be changes obviously, but trust me on this you'll avoid so much headache.

*Cheers, by the way. I will probably reserve the idea for a later date if it doesn't work out (I'm too proud of it as a plot to let it be reduced into something smaller!), but thank you. I will certainly keep that in mind.

I'm not saying you should make the plot smaller, or convoluted. I wouldn't want that.

I was talking about the gameplay and defining set limits that you know you'll be able to achieve at first, with the future mind to expanding should you find yourself more comfortable with it. I wouldn't want you to think about stripping things from the off in the way of just throwing good ideas away!

 

[Redlambs]

Was going to say actually, you've been saying in this thread about this being a teaching/learning device. It's certainly not being promoted that way and I don't think anyone going into it is thinking about it in that light. I'm not thinking "I want to learn"; I'm thinking "I want to make an amazing game". That might be what you see it as when you line it up next to the sort of stuff you've worked on, but its quite clear from watching these streams that the developers and creators of Project Spark do not see this piece of software in that light. They're genuinely excited to see how people use it, as are the people anticipating its release. The primary objective clearly is for Microsoft to make money, but there is no indication from anyone that this is being brought out as a learning tool. Learning is a part of it and you are right in that it is not being brought out in order that people will publish games, but the intentions of the developers themselves are very clear; they're constantly running these streams and making sure everything is in even the Beta to help people make the best games possible.

Do you know that this was started in the 60's? And that there is one of the main guys (and a few of the minions) from Kodu in on this because it's built on that? Of course they aren't going to promote it in the same way, that put a lot of people off because they didn't get it and thought it was something else entirely (like the comparisons with RPGmaker we are getting here). You notice how they are promoting it as a 'game'?

You don't realise it, but in making a game you'll be learning all sorts of programming concepts as well as game development. You'll be learning about variables, logic flow, program flow etc... You'll be learning about lighting, texturing, animation, particles etc...

It's a brilliant idea and I'm looking forward to it. But your attitude right there is why they won't bother talking about that stuff, people just change perception based on that! You've practically dismissed Kodu in this thread, but in actual fact Spark is just a shinier version of that. The concepts and the way things work are the same, but like I say it gets seen as 'basic' because of how it was aimed.

In turn spurring people on to spunk a shite load of cash on extra content, obviously...

Charging for graphic and sound content packs is fair. If they deliberately restrict tools and that (in a devious way that you can't complete the game you are working on even if it's simple in the way you want to) then that's a cynical and underhand way to make money.

There's no reason to think that's what is going to happen here though. Let's see.

 

[Redlambs]

Count me in if you're serious about this, and of course you need people who can work on it. About the tools, I really don't know much about Spark, but will it better than let's say Unity?

I'd be very interested in making something with you and the guys on here mate. We all like the same games anyway!

I see no reason why we couldn't build ourselves a nice little RPG or anything really and expand it as and when people can help. I have a great idea and concept that I think would win hearts right away for an RPG that combines all sorts of elements we all like and I'd be happy for everyone to design it fully as a collaborative effort, or we can go from scratch on one big team thing. Either way I've done this sort of thing before on another forum and I think the likes of yourself, Eric, Alock, Cider and myself have enthusiasm and ideas that could easily come together nicely indeed. If we all just aim to have fun with it from the start and see how it goes, I think it could work.

 

[KingEric7]

Crikey Redlambs, that is sounding very serious and passionate! Can't just yet but I'll respond to that all that later on today when I can.

 

[Redlambs]

Crikey Redlambs, that is sounding very serious and passionate! Can't just yet but I'll respond to that all that later on today when I can.

No, it's about fun! I love making games, it's been too long since I've set myself a dedicated goal, but having kids does that

But it's more to say I'd like to encourage yourself and others and be of help. I think it's great there's even a couple of people on here really interested in it! And who knows what will happen. I got into the industry because of the Yaroze and hard work, this might not be the same level, but it's a great way to get the old creative juices flowing and give people a way to create.

 

[Revan]

I'd be very interested in making something with you and the guys on here mate. We all like the same games anyway!

I see no reason why we couldn't build ourselves a nice little RPG or anything really and expand it as and when people can help. I have a great idea and concept that I think would win hearts right away for an RPG that combines all sorts of elements we all like and I'd be happy for everyone to design it fully as a collaborative effort, or we can go from scratch on one big team thing. Either way I've done this sort of thing before on another forum and I think the likes of yourself, Eric, Alock, Cider and myself have enthusiasm and ideas that could easily come together nicely indeed. If we all just aim to have fun with it from the start and see how it goes, I think it could work.

Cheers Lambo! Enjoyed also the reading you made for Eric.

Definitely we should try doing something. We have all other obligation but still we all enjoy playing (and talking about games). I haven't done anything before in gaming (doing an online shitty course that I don't have that much high hopes but better than nothing I guess), but still I have been thinking for more than two years now to do something. And if we make a group it will be great, cause if there are many ideas than arguably always in the end it will be better than just another person doing it (same as in all projects). Also there is the thing of working, more persons work more than one and even in cases when someone is not feeling to continue, it will be much harder to give up then in cases when he's doing it by himself.

Anyway I would be very interested when the time comes to do something with you and the other guys here. If it goes good and we finish it (I hope so) then great. If not then at-least I hope it will be a great experience, lot of fun and some learning.

 

[ciderman9000000]

When we make our game can I have the title of Director of Ensured Darkness?

I know you all bum JRPG's but they're too light, fluffy and inconsequential for my tastes.

I think the main character, a silver-tongued playboy named Zack Zodiac, should have his tongue ripped out and thus his world turned upside down by his arch nemesis at the end of the opening act.

 

[Alock1]

Erm.. the article I posted was to show that multiplayer had been confirmed. He has no idea about the micro transactions he is just making the assumption 'its confirmed to be free to play so they will most likely have micro transactions'. I believe the main features and hundreds of props all come free from the beginning and then we will get dlc content and props and characters available to buy later down the line.

Theyve spoke on streams about how they want the base game to be completely free and have no limits at all for people who arent willing to pay.

One guy made a small assumption in an article based on far less information than weve been given and you guys have ran with it.

 

[KingEric7]

This is going to have to be quicker than intended, sorry.

Right, one of the criticisms I've had on here lately (mostly down to Cider, and he has a point) is that I seem to know a lot but don't often elaborate enough. Well not like I used to, and that makes it seem as if I'm like Weaste all aloof and better than everyone else. That's not true, it's time. But I have a spare bit now, so let me elaborate for you Eric, because I think you greatly misunderstood most of what I've said and I'm largely to blame for that.

First of all, clarification about your project, I think you should go for it. I'm not trying to tell you....

I don't see there being any misunderstanding there, to be honest.

So on to your points:



Yes and no. That's all design mate, that comes down to how much you want to plan and write everything. NPC's and their scripts should be easy in Spark as they are in general.

It would normally be easy, but everything else is rather mechanical by comparison. I'd actually want NPC dialogue in my game to be quite imaginative, with every character having unique personalities. That is by some distance the most imaginative and difficult aspect of any game I would have in mind. I understand that many gamers wouldn't see that as important but that's definitely what I'd want to aim for. The software here would be somewhat irrelevant.

You'll regret that attitude, you are almost giving yourself an excuse to lose interest. You really want to put months, even years into this only for it to just end up a mess of ideas and failures?

I'm not saying you have to expect to finish it and shoehorn everything in, I'm saying your goal is to enjoy creating your work of art and getting it to a point where if even a single person takes interest you can relax and see it through their eyes. You'll never be 100% happy with it, even if you did finish it, but you should at least enjoy it!

I wouldn't take any of what I say too literally regarding that. If I end up putting a specific amount of time in, I'll finish it. If not, it'll be annoying for a while, but I'll get over it. I know how I'll feel about it all.

No, not at all. Believe me, this it the first step to frustration and there'll not be any indies worth their salt that will tell you any different.


I'm not saying you have to create full reaching games to learn, but you should create fun little mini levels to test ideas and most importantly they should be different to the game you are making to keep your mind fresh. Why do you think, for example, Rockstar made that table tennis game? A new engine to test and work out ideas and kinks on, that wasn't the only one they made loads of little games like that - nearly every game starts with little smaller ones that are made around the office, it just happened that they could flog that one. But it shows my point.

Let's say, for example, you spend weeks on a beautiful scrolling level and are happy with it. Then you realise the physics of your character don't feel right, or you want to introduce a new magic that blows the ground up, what do you think may happen? You break the flow and design of the level, and that's something that escalates as you try to change and patch things, and before you know it you have a mess and need to start from scratch.

Spark is perfect for this. Imagine setting out a number of little floating islands in one space, each is for a different thing? You could make a fun little mini-game to test spells, how about a little football game on another to test physic properties and movement, how about a big 3D tic tac toe game on another to test lighting and particle effects? How about a game of space invaders in 3D on another level to see the effects of explosions on the ground and around you?


You see what I'm saying? You need to keep that stuff away from the main game as much as possible, learn by doing. Then when you start to bring it all together, you won't get it bang on from the start and there will always be changes obviously, but trust me on this you'll avoid so much headache.

Everyone has their own process. As you say yourself, there is no right or wrong to designing a game. It is also extremely easy with Project Spark to separate from the main game given the infinite level concept and the size of the world. I'd never intend to just have one thing going at once, with everything being worked on in rigid phases.

That being said, I respect the view and the experience. I will see for myself how it begins and pan out from there.

Do you know that this was started in the 60's? And that there is one of the main guys (and a few of the minions) from Kodu in on this because it's built on that? Of course they aren't going to promote it in the same way, that put a lot of people off because they didn't get it and thought it was something else entirely (like the comparisons with RPGmaker we are getting here). You notice how they are promoting it as a 'game'?

You don't realise it, but in making a game you'll be learning all sorts of programming concepts as well as game development. You'll be learning about variables, logic flow, program flow etc... You'll be learning about lighting, texturing, animation, particles etc...

It's a brilliant idea and I'm looking forward to it. But your attitude right there is why they won't bother talking about that stuff, people just change perception based on that! You've practically dismissed Kodu in this thread, but in actual fact Spark is just a shinier version of that. The concepts and the way things work are the same, but like I say it gets seen as 'basic' because of how it was aimed.

The reason I said that is because you were saying words like 'meant'. That implies a specific intention, which at this point has not been let on in any other form than game making. If something was 'meant' to be used as a learning tool, that would mean the creators created that with the primary intention of making people learn, with game creation as a secondary benefit of that. Unless there is some sort of objective purpose to Project Spark, what it is 'meant' for is what you intend to use it for. It becomes more important what it is capable of. There may be limitations, but attributing meaning beyond the assessment of those limitations is guesswork. The Project Spark developers say it is primarily for making games, players will use it to make games and the software itself is capable of making great games. They may not be made for the purpose of publishing, but that doesn't mean they're meant as a learning device. You could just argue that learning is prerequisite to using the software properly.

As for Kodu, there has been no serious dismissal of that in this thread. I however cannot just dip into something. I am extremely obsessive so if I'm ever going to try and start doing using something I will want to apply that to the shinier, more comprehensive real deal. That's another reason I didn't really go into RPG Maker when I knew this was coming out, aside from the hours and hours that would've needed to be spent.

Charging for graphic and sound content packs is fair. If they deliberately restrict tools and that (in a devious way that you can't complete the game you are working on even if it's simple in the way you want to) then that's a cynical and underhand way to make money.

There's no reason to think that's what is going to happen here though. Let's see.

Must admit I am also a bit sceptical on this, mainly due to how hesitant they have been in showing off the variety of content that there clearly is when you see them going through the menus. They've said that they only want to show people the things that are actually finished, but I wonder whether they're only trying to show people more of what they will actually get with the free version. It wouldn't surprise me because, really, if you do actually get to use all that can be seen when they scroll through the menus, people won't need to be buying extra content in a hurry.

That's probably just unnecessary scepticism, though. It's born out of a "I can't believe all this shit is free! " type view.

*Sorry if all that seems a bit sharp. Had to be done quick.

 

[Alock1]

Must admit I am also a bit sceptical on this, mainly due to how hesitant they have been in showing off the variety of content that there clearly is when you see them going through the menus. They've said that they only want to show people the things that are actually finished, but I wonder whether they're only trying to show people more of what they will actually get with the free version. It wouldn't surprise me because, really, if you do actually get to use all that can be seen when they scroll through the menus, people won't need to be buying extra content in a hurry.

That's probably just unnecessary scepticism, though. It's born out of a "I can't believe all this shit is free! " type view.

Again, they've spoke confidently about how the main game is going to be completely free with no limitations and just a few optional in-game purchases now and later on - I think that the purchases will be very minimal in comparison to the main game and that they will not be functional things, but extra props, cool paint, new textures, new characters.. The way they have talked on reddit and in streams, it seems incredibly unlikely that they will lock any features or functions behind a pay wall - I imagine that the difference is going to be completely aesthetic.

 

[Redlambs]

It would normally be easy, but everything else is rather mechanical by comparison. I'd actually want NPC dialogue in my game to be quite imaginative, with every character having unique personalities. That is by some distance the most imaginative and difficult aspect of any game I would have in mind. I understand that many gamers wouldn't see that as important but that's definitely what I'd want to aim for. The software here would be somewhat irrelevant.

That's basically what I said, no? But you need a big noticeboard and lots of post-it's and string

Everyone has their own process. As you say yourself, there is no right or wrong to designing a game. It is also extremely easy with Project Spark to separate from the main game given the infinite level concept and the size of the world. I'd never intend to just have one thing going at once, with everything being worked on in rigid phases.

That being said, I respect the view and the experience. I will see for myself how it begins and pan out from there.

Well you know where I am to bounce things off should you need you, and you can be sure that I won't be coming at it so matter-of-factly

The reason I said that is because you were saying words like 'meant'. That implies a specific intention, which at this point has not been let on in any other form than game making. If something was 'meant' to be used as a learning tool, that would mean the creators created that with the primary intention of making people learn, with game creation as a secondary benefit of that. Unless there is some sort of objective purpose to Project Spark, what it is 'meant' for is what you intend to use it for. It becomes more important what it is capable of. There may be limitations, but attributing meaning beyond the assessment of those limitations is guesswork. The Project Spark developers say it is primarily for making games, players will use it to make games and the software itself is capable of making great games. They may not be made for the purpose of publishing, but that doesn't mean they're meant as a learning device. You could just argue that learning is prerequisite to using the software properly.

It IS a programming language.

As for Kodu, there has been no serious dismissal of that in this thread. I however cannot just dip into something. I am extremely obsessive so if I'm ever going to try and start doing using something I will want to apply that to the shinier, more comprehensive real deal. That's another reason I didn't really go into RPG Maker when I knew this was coming out, aside from the hours and hours that would've needed to be spent.

I've mentioned it numerous times, and each time get a response like this. I really think you don't get this or spark, but that's all good.

*Sorry if all that seems a bit sharp. Had to be done quick.

No at all matey!

 

[Redlambs]

Erm.. the article I posted was to show that multiplayer had been confirmed. He has no idea about the micro transactions he is just making the assumption 'its confirmed to be free to play so they will most likely have micro transactions'. I believe the main features and hundreds of props all come free from the beginning and then we will get dlc content and props and characters available to buy later down the line.

Theyve spoke on streams about how they want the base game to be completely free and have no limits at all for people who arent willing to pay.

One guy made a small assumption in an article based on far less information than weve been given and you guys have ran with it.

Erm...we are free to discuss what we like, it's hardly been run with since we don't really know yet! Did you think it would be completely free then? It was always going to come up, I just didn't want to be the one to mention it first

Besides, I've clearly said I expect it to be content packs (graphics and sound) and there's no problem with that.

 

[Redlambs]

Cheers Lambo! Enjoyed also the reading you made for Eric.

Definitely we should try doing something. We have all other obligation but still we all enjoy playing (and talking about games). I haven't done anything before in gaming (doing an online shitty course that I don't have that much high hopes but better than nothing I guess), but still I have been thinking for more than two years now to do something. And if we make a group it will be great, cause if there are many ideas than arguably always in the end it will be better than just another person doing it (same as in all projects). Also there is the thing of working, more persons work more than one and even in cases when someone is not feeling to continue, it will be much harder to give up then in cases when he's doing it by himself.

Anyway I would be very interested when the time comes to do something with you and the other guys here. If it goes good and we finish it (I hope so) then great. If not then at-least I hope it will be a great experience, lot of fun and some learning.

Indeedy, it would be good. I'm definitely up for something, and finish or no it'd be a lot of fun!