I really don’t think he is to be honest. The media narrative will tell you that’s true, but the reality is Maguire is a top player who is massively let down by an awful keeper behind him and inconsistent partners. That’s something Dias has yet to face at City and that’s before you even start looking at how easy it is to defend in that system.
Rúben Dias - FWA Footballer of the Year
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Interesting you say that because a huge percentage of Maguire's player performance thread on here is United fans saying that he's nowhere near good enough for you, not captain material, massively overpriced, positionally unaware, not mobile enough and terrible at headers. I don't watch United games often so I have to go off of what your fans, who watch every game, say. I'm yet to hear a City fan really say a bad word about Dias.
You could make the same argument for De Gea and the rest of our defence about Maguire.
Manchester City has the lowest number of blocks (286), second lowest number of shots blocked (58), lowest number of blocks of shots on target (0), lowest number of blocked passes (228), lowest number of interceptions (193, on par with City), lowest number of clearances (371) and 5th lowest number of tackles (387). Source - Squad Defensive Actions
They also have second lowest opponent attempted crosses into penalty area (145). Their Goalkeeper is above average (7th in terms of PSxG-Goals) so not a massive difference.
To sum up, a team with the lowest number of goals conceded (16, second Chelsea 25) and the lowest number of accumulated xGA (19,5, second Chelsea 23) has the lowest number of defensive actions.
Comparing Dias + Stones vs Lindelof + Maguire (per 90' stats):
- Dias makes more tackles with significantly higher success rate. The difference is not in defensive 3rd, but he makes significantly more tackles in midfield and attacking 3rd
- Maguire tackles dribblers 3x more often than Dias, Lindelof 2,5x. All 3 are dribbled past similar number of times/90' which is interesting.
- Both Lindelof and Maguire have higher number of pressures and success rate. Again, this changes when only attacking 3rd is considered.
- Lindelof makes much higher number of blocks than Maguire. Ruben and Dias are between them.
- Maguire makes 3x more interceptions than Dias and 3x more interceptions than Stones.
- Both Maguire and Lindelof make significantly more interceptions than both City defenders.
Here's another interesting stat - Dias and Stones had to deal with exactly half as many aerial duels as Maguire and Lindelof:
Again, I'm not arguing Dias is not a very good defender, but you have to take under consideration because of how City play their defenders have significantly less to do, especially in defensive 3rd.
Also, considering City defenders have to face half as many crosses as we do, I still maintain Victor would've done very well for City. Maguire is too slow on the ball so don't think so. But those stats do not show me Dias is significantly better defender than Lindelof so I'd be very careful saying Ruben is the best player in the league as some on here do.
PS
Those stats are very strong arguments in favour of possession-based football.
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Because of cities defenders they can play the possession game, and further up the pitch just like Barce did. We don't because we can't with our defenders. There are lower teams in the PL with good stats and good reasons why top teams don't buy them.
I didn't get your point. So why are those reasons?
Because the approach some lower teams implement work well for a weaker team, gets more out of them. A team like city use a much more high level approach which requires more from defenders and in different areas. Barcelona defenders back with pep were very different to ours now, and I bet ours beats theirs in the stats you use. Even though theirs are far better.
The stats don't conclude who is better, I never said that and that's not the point.
I only wanted to show that City defenders have much less to do, because of how their system works and because in Pep team every player is involved in defending. And even though they don't need to make many defensive actions, they concede very few goals.
Similar to how our defenders are praised after a game we dominated, even if they actually didn't have much to defend. This is something I see every time I watch City.
Defenders are judged by the number of mistakes, not the number of good interventions.
Going back to Dias, I'm not so sure replacing Lindelof with him would've done much of a difference for either side. I'm pretty sure there would still be 10 point gap between us and City.
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There’s a lot of clueless Utd fans and even more on here. He’s been nothing short of great for us since arriving, it’s purely the price that people use against him. He would be world class for City there’s absolutely no doubt.
Except De Gea has been awful for 3 years for both club and country. He’s the single biggest issue in this team so if you are saying that, frankly you aren’t looking hard enough.
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Maguire's been awful? Hmmm
Apologies meant De Gea, wrote it too quickly on my phone!
It seems to me that Maguire could never do what Dias does at City. He doesn't have the feet for it. But Dias would struggle with Maguire's job at United too, where there's a lot more old-fashioned defending to do because the team don't dominate the ball and press so aggressively from the front.
Oh no need to apologize
I was thinking you meant ddg but wasn't sure as your description fit him more
And a large percentage of posters say that about almost all of our players, while hyping up every player mentioned that plays for another club. They are just fiends for transfers and its best not to worry about them.
I'm pretty sure City fans are just happy to be in the most successful era theyve seen and City's philosophy is all about having the ball and attacking, not defending. Why would the fans concentrate on defending?
Dias is the worst CB with his feet at City, if anything he is an old-fashion defender, reason why him and Stones fit together. City have always dominated the ball, yet look at their defence last season and if it that were the case why did they spend so much on defence if the style of play was solely going to make it easier for them? Like when Laporte came and now Dias we saw there defence make huge improvements, it isn't just down to the approach.
Maguire has never been a top player. That's reserved for players who prove capable of being an important part of league /CL winning teams, or look capable of being that for teams who are a level below. Maguire is one of the goodish players of a top 4 PL team and not one of the untouchables either. In our own team, at least Shaw, Rashford, Pogba and Bruno are better. So yeah, no way he's a top player.
The stats are interesting but Dias has brought leadership & organisational qualities that don't show in the stats. With the notable exception of Mendy, we have done very well in recent years in not buying players who bring too much ego, drama or other distractions. It's brought a lot of benefits but one downside is that we have a lot of players that look very quiet - model pros, but not particularly vocal. Dias has brought a lot of leadership & direction to the defence which was really important after the loss of Kompany.
I think what's rightfully surprised many is that a 23 yr old has come in fresh to the PL and done all this, of course backed up with his performances on the pitch
I think what's rightfully surprised many is that a 23 yr old has come in fresh to the PL and done all this, of course backed up with his performances on the pitch
Not by a lot, and probably not for long. Otamendi was just as good as Stones or Laporte at passing after about a year and half training under Pep.
I don't want to be that man, but he'd be killed on here if he acted like that playing for United. Played Wolves onside, lost a duel, landed on his butt.
Defenders make mistakes. The less mistakes the better they look. The less possession opponents have, the less work for defenders.
Defenders make mistakes. The less mistakes the better they look. The less possession opponents have, the less work for defenders.
This past month he's shut down Haaland, Kane, Mbappe and Neymar!
He's a big game player, that's for sure.
I think you have looked up in the wrong dictionary. In Webster, it says that ‘a top player’ is any player with experience from the elite level of any National League. According to Registry of International Patent Rights (RIPR), it is not possible to reserve the term ‘top player’ but it can be leased on a quarterly basis and has been done so recently by persons such as K. Iheanacho and J. Lingard. In The Francis Drake Definitive Edition of What Are Acceptable Metaphors for Soccer Players (sic!), it says that ‘goodish untouchables’ has been declared ‘a vile phrase indeed’ and is not recommended for use before a public audience of philistines or sub-Ivy-League alumnis, whatever that means.
From this I deduce that Harry Maguirre reasonably must be ‘a top player’. (Alleged white text: Yes, I made it all up, but still!)
I think using stats for defenders is one of the worst ways to judge them. Seen stats where Maguire was better than VVD in every aspect two seasons ago, you could probably pick a handful of stats and make it seem Bramble was a better defender than Rio.
Dias is no doubt a better defender than Maguire. But Maguire is nowhere near as bad as some make out on here. He's very good in the air defensively, and he actively tries to defender which can sometimes make him look poor. He's always willing to nip infront of attackers on the half way and put us straight on the attack, he doesn't just back off until he's on his goal line like Lindelof and he rarely gets bullied.
Dias is no doubt a better defender than Maguire. But Maguire is nowhere near as bad as some make out on here. He's very good in the air defensively, and he actively tries to defender which can sometimes make him look poor. He's always willing to nip infront of attackers on the half way and put us straight on the attack, he doesn't just back off until he's on his goal line like Lindelof and he rarely gets bullied.
He's an absolute monster. The Dikembe Mutombo of football if anyone gets the reference. Just a brick wall.
Motm so far
Him & Van Dijk would be something else.
Best defender in Europe. Old school.
Absolute beast
Great performance in a big match. I didnt think he'd be worth the money and I was wrong about that. At least I can say Dias and Stones played this match the way I'd want from Maguire's partner. Dias made several brave blocks throwing his body at the ball and Stones made some important clearances
Possible POTY for me. Not quite at Van Dijk’s level but he’s just a brick wall.
One of Pep's most important signings IMO. Massive game today
Why Jose never looked at him i will never understand
Best centre-back in the world.
The difference between them winning anything this season
The difference between them winning anything this season
Indomitable. What a signing he's been.
Laporte was already a great defender for them, but Dias has rendered him obsolete.
Laporte was already a great defender for them, but Dias has rendered him obsolete.
Best defender in the world this season. He’s absolutely top class. Portugal are favourites with him at the back for the Euros.
I recall us being linked while Jose was still manager? I also remember quite a few who watched him in the Portuguese league having their reservations of settling into the pace of the EPL because he is not the fastest. Don't think many people thought he'd be such an excellent signing for them in fairness.
Like prime Vidic out there tonight. What a buy by City but let’s not forget they’ve spent about a decade looking for him before eventually stumbling upon him.
City refused to sign Maguire for the price we paid and then a year later singed Diaz for £20m less.
If we refused to pay £80m for Maguire we’d all be outraged.
We are linked with a lot of young talents, but I don't think we were ever serious. Yes I remember arguing with some portuguese fans on here who also doubted him due to apparent lack of pace, but whenever I watched him play, he just always seems solid.