Racism incident in PSG v Istanbul match

[Mibabalou]

Kinda off-topic, but this confuses me. Are you suggesting African Americans are not American's? It kinda reads that way now.

No im saying my jamaican and french friends, who are not american at all would be modified to be called african-american due to the fact they they have nothing to do with either.

Not sure if any europeans have been to the states and laughed at being called african-american but thats what im describing.

 

[Godfather]

Literally as bad as the ref.

Deleted it. You might have a point. But his comment angered me.

 

[Spaghetti]

He has a name! And a shirt number! Specifically to help identify him as a person!

What planet are you living on where you think it's okay for officials to ignore that and identify players by their skin colour instead? I mean jesus fecking christ, this isn't difficult stuff.

And a huge coat covering them up

 

[arthurka]

He's speaking in Romanian.

He says "ala negru", which means "the black one". There is nothing racist about that.

Why? He doesn't say this white....

 

[VP]

Not sure I totally get the point here?

Just because someone isn't being lynched in the street, it doesn't mean that what has been directed their way is acceptable.

My point is that intent and context should inform our response to these incidents. I see parallels with the Cavani incident here. In both cases a mistake was made but I"m not sure if it was intentionally racist.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I'm raising my kids not to use that sort of descriptors, I agree with everyone above that it is inappropriate in that it singles out individuals for their race (whether or with negative intent) and confirms race roles.

But even apart from that: it looks like he didn't say 'the black guy' (with those English words), but something including the Romanian word 'negru'. I have no idea about the connotations in Romanian, but certainly the close relatives I know (English 'negro', French 'nègre', Dutch 'neger') are not used anymore and would all be seen as condescending, if not insulting. Certainly a ref should know better than speaking like this, whatever language he uses.

Are these guys racist, too?

https://uncf.org/

 

[horsechoker]

Why don't you guys wait for the facts to come out?

Rafa?

You're right though, nothing gets solved in the heat of the moment

 

[Sandikan]

Even if that is the case, he shouldn't be referring to him as "the black guy", as Demba Ba points out in the video above.

Demba Ba isn't in that clip?

 

[krautrøck]

Languages to ban:

Spanish
Romanian

 

[Vidyoyo]

This is absolutely mental to watch. For anyone with the BT Sport App- 13 minutes until 20 minutes.

After it has been said and the players are rightfully furious, it cuts to the racist 4th official and he only says ‘negro is black player’ again. You can see the horror in the other guy’s face. I don’t care what language he speaks, you only have to have read a newspaper or seen the internet in the last few decades to know this language is completely unacceptable.

No wonder the players are absolutely fuming. Ba states to the guy “why not say the black guy or point me out, why say the negro?”

It’s an absolute joke and disgusting events and I hope that guy is seriously punished for this. It’s 2020 ffs.

He's Romanian and apparently said 'negru' which means 'black'.

 

[sullydnl]

How does an assistant coach have a shirt number?

Oh well if it was the assistant coach then that's fine, not like there's any other way to identify him other that referring to him as being black.

This thread is already a shitshow. Christ above.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

He has a name! And a shirt number! Specifically to help identify him as a person!

What planet are you living on where you think it's okay for officials to ignore that and identify players by their skin colour instead? I mean jesus fecking christ, this isn't difficult stuff.

It wasn't a player as far as I know but one of the coaching staff so no number to identify him with...but I see that's been cleared up. Nevermind me

 

[DickDastardly]

What the feck are you all on about?

He called him black! He's fecking black! So what?

What fecking term is politically correct?! African american? What if he's not an american? Or african by that matter?!

He's a black person. Without a number or a name on his back, so he called him black.

Isn't it called BLACK lives matter?!

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Game will resume at 9 apparently

Good for you too.

https://humanparts.medium.com/kindly-call-me-black-ab527d7fe432

I mean that's one person... and thats great for them, but as a general rule I don't tend to apply what one person says and apply it to everyone.

Maybe if I were familiar with the person in question and they were comfortable, but if it was someone I didn't know... to just call them "that black guy?" ... Doesn't feel right at all.

If at work some random addressed me as "The Brown Guy" I can't imagine I'd be super thrilled about that.

 

[Posh Red]

Demba Ba isn't in that clip?

There are two clips. One of the event and one after the event

 

[Massive Spanner]

If it were the only white person among a group of blacks, then surely you would do that? I've literally heard Robbie from AFTV say "the black one" when he could think of an opposition player's name.

Let's just wait until the facts are clear. The players were clearly incensed so he may have said worse.

It's not the fecking same.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

this seems to be a mix of mild racism and miscommunication more than vile racist abuse, no?

How dare you have a nuanced take. I would go on to argue that there was zero racist intent and it is being misconstrued as such. Language barriers and all, etc. Just like Cavani the other week.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

It's not the fecking same.

I would argue that it is in fact exactly the same.

 

[horsechoker]

Reported for hate speech

 

[abundance]

I'm raising my kids not to use that sort of descriptors, I agree with everyone above that it is inappropriate in that it singles out individuals for their race (whether or with negative intent) and confirms race roles.

But even apart from that: it looks like he didn't say 'the black guy' (with those English words), but something including the Romanian word 'negru'. I have no idea about the connotations in Romanian, but certainly the close relatives I know (English 'negro', French 'nègre', Dutch 'neger') are not used anymore and would all be seen as condescending, if not insulting. Certainly a ref should know better than speaking like this, whatever language he uses.

"Negru" is the word for "the colour black" in Romanian

 

[dove]

Looks to be yet another nothing incident just like Cavani one.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

I refuse to believe he didn't know the legend that is Demba Ba. Scorer of goals, destroyer of dreams, tormenter of Gerard.

 

[Cassidy]

Been refered to as the white/pale one in a predominantly black environment many times. So what Demba Ba says isn’t true. I know it’s not the same because of the understandable sensitivities so fully understand why they leave the pitch but it’s not true white people are never refered to by their skin. Happened to me many many times.

Its wrong whether it happened to you or not. And Demba ba is talking about in football. The ref wouldnt say it

 

[The Kag]

Demba Ba wasn't even the only black player on their team, so makes no sense to call him that.

It wasn't directed at Demba Ba or even a player, but one of the members of the coaching staff, Pierre Webo.

On review of the footage, the referee, Ovidiu Haţegan, appears to ask who he should give the red card to from the bench, with 4th official Sebastian Colţescu responding: "ala negru," which in Romanian can translate to "the black [guy]," provoking the incident that followed.

To play devil's advocate, the 4th official might not have known the staff member's name off the top of his head, so he went with the easiest visual descriptor available to him to indicate the person in question. Black in Romanian is negru, right? For people screaming, "why isn't he saying the white guy!" Well, if the bench consists of all lighter skinned staff, then it wouldn't make much sense.

 

[Blades1889]

this seems to be a mix of mild racism and miscommunication more than vile racist abuse, no?

Any form of racism is vile, no?

 

[Mibabalou]

In English, especially the U.S., 'black person' or 'black' as a descriptor is used in common language inoffensively all the time. In the same way blonde, ginger and asian are. 'Coloured, negro, and the n*** are outdated and offensive.

We have to be especially careful of what that word the official used before condemning. Of course it should be investigated.

Yes this is very difficult to parse because for me its fine and normal to say that. Saying that when I am abroad or even not with my mates I would do everything I could to not describe a human as singular physical appearance.

 

[Massive Spanner]

If the guy is looking at the bench without knowning names and without seeing number at first glance I don't see referring him as negro as racism, if his skin colour stands out from the rest. Objectively how would you refer to him in this case? "Who? - Uh it's that guy over there. - Which? uh wait, let me get closer and find the number on his back..."

Now if it's the n word is a different story.

The fact that you see the the most obvious way of identifying a person as "the black one" says a lot about you too buddy.

 

[Snoooked]

btw a recent case from NBA about a 'white boy', where went barely unnoticed https://thesportsrush.com/nba-news-...uka-doncic-statement-lebron-james-called-out/

 

[King Andow]

“A group of blacks”

Leave. Now. They’re not pack animals.I can’t believe you just said that.

omg

 

[Drainy]

In a professional environment people should avoid referring to someone by their race unless the context makes it necessary

 

[VorZakone]

My point is that intent and context should inform our response to these incidents. I see parallels with the Cavani incident here. In both cases a mistake was made but I"m not sure if it was intentionally racist.

What do you mean? That there's some small chance you think Cavani was being intentionally racist?

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Where do you start?

With a ban?

 

[Pink Moon]

Why? He doesn't say this white....

Why would he say "this white guy" when referring to a black guy?

And I've just unintentionally did the exact same thing the ref did which shows how crazy this whole argument is.

 

[Suedesi]

This thread

 

[Vidyoyo]

What the feck are you all on about?

He called him black! He's fecking black! So what?

What fecking term is politically correct?! African american? What if he's not an american? Or african by that matter?!

He's a black person. Without a number or a name on his back, so he called him black.

Isn't it called BLACK lives matter?!

At work I was told we should use the term 'People of the African and Caribbean diaspora' so there's one.

 

[fps]

Why don't you guys wait for the facts to come out?

Of the caf that’s binned Ole at half-time in the last five PL matches?

 

[Shiva87]

Good on both teams to walk off.

Blatant racism. The real problem here is that so many people dont even appreciate that it is. The ref identified someone by the colour of his skin - even though I appreciate there may have been no malice.

This is the kind of racism which is subtle and goes unnoticed. I'm sure the ref went in and said that he had no intention to racially identify or abuse. This type of stuff creates an identity differential and related consequences.

 

[duffer]

Demba Ba wasn't even the only black player on their team, so makes no sense to call him that.

He wasn't talking about Ba, he was pointing out the only black coach on the bench. "that one there, the black one".

 

[Sandikan]

As long as he referred to all the white players as "the white one" then absolutely. And I'm sure he did do that, didn't he?

If there's a group of 5 people, then surely saying the black one if there is only one black person is fine? Just as it would be if you said the white one if only one was white?
Or tall or short or female or black haired etc.

We're surely not in such a place now where you can't even describe someone as a colour at all.

Will police forces have to stop giving descriptions? And just say "a person" etc?

Racism is bad, and this may prove to be that - but just saying the black guy as a descriptor isn't racist alone.

 

[Cheimoon]

No im saying my jamaican and french friends, who are not american at all would be modified to be called african-american due to the fact they they have nothing to do with either.

Not sure if any europeans have been to the states and laughed at being called african-american but thats what im describing.

Ah! Thanks, that wasn't clear to me.