Rafael

[Sojiro]

was fantastic and we really benefit from two attacking fullbacks.

bet he was chuffed to see the shackles off when wigan went down to 10, let alone 9. was in amongst the attacking play that we are so used to seeing.

 

[gbgary]

played well. think he's cemented that spot for himself more or less. still room for improvement.

 

[el eric]

Still need a bit of work on the defensive side of his game, gave away a dangerous free in the 2nd half today after getting skinned in the corner when his man shouldnt have been able to turn

Some great balls into the box the 2nd half alright

 

[Aporkalypse]

Superb game for him, improving by the week I'd say.

 

[Ekeke]

Best delivery of any right back in the league right now.

Johnson is good when he's on form, but he's miles off it.

 

[Striker10]

He's very good but will blossom in years to come and he's only 19.

 

[SATA]

Struggled against N'Zogbia at times today

Still his crossing today were a delight to watch

 

[Decotron]

Guilty of some bad decisions defensively, classy assist

 

[Allforone]

Wouldnt swap this lad for any other right back in the world, hes got such amazing ability even at his tender age, going to be something very special, he aguably is already.

Hes so far and away our best right back its criminal to play the likes of Brown/O'Shea and Neville over him.

 

[Kraftwerker]

8 tackles, won 7.

 

[EdWeatherall]

Was pleased with his crosses later in the game, but worrying signs when he got turned easily twice, first one in the first half by N'Zogbia....led to that chance when Vidic ballsed up and their player put it over

And then he got turned easily at the corner flag in the second half and was fortunate to not get booked when he fouled the player trying to get back goalside


But his crossing late in the game was brilliant, pleased to see him back in action

 

[Brophs]

Meant to ask this before now....do the twins speak English yet? Occurred to me that I haven't seen them interviewed as of yet.

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

I'm guessing they speak a little bit considering Fabio was acting as a translator for Bebe when he was coming on as sub.

 

[Minkaro]

Meant to ask this before now....do the twins speak English yet? Occurred to me that I haven't seen them interviewed as of yet.

I thought Fabio was translating for Bebe before he came on against Wolves.

Before Bebe came on, that is.

 

[Escobar]

They've been here for a while now, and I dont think they are as limited as Tevez

 

[Decotron]

Im sure ive heard Rafael on MUTV give a short interview in English.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

I think its a long long time since i've seen 2 players getting overhyped out of all proportion as these lads have been on here. Sure they can look good going forward, but both of them are so often caught desperatly out of position at the back, they constantly make rash tackles and frequently give the ball away in dangerous areas. If one or both of them play tonight against a good attacking side like arsenal then i think they could be found out.

 

[puNANI]

I think its a long long time since i've seen 2 players getting overhyped out of all proportion as these lads have been on here. Sure they can look good going forward, but both of them are so often caught desperatly out of position at the back, they constantly make rash tackles and frequently give the ball away in dangerous areas. If one or both of them play tonight against a good attacking side like arsenal then i think they could be found out.

Rafael has improved his defensive game a lot of over the season. I haven't really seen him been beaten all season besides for a few nervous moments against N'Zogbia. If anything, he has been on the end of some great, last ditch goal saving tackles like the one against Valencia that he pulled off. Rafael has found the right balance between attack and defense.

I agree with your post only in regards to Fabio. The hype for the two is warranted though. They're young, extremely talented and Rafael in particular has shown great quality shutting down opponents like Bale, Ronaldinho and Robinho with ease.

 

[Escobar]

I think its a long long time since i've seen 2 players getting overhyped out of all proportion as these lads have been on here. Sure they can look good going forward, but both of them are so often caught desperatly out of position at the back, they constantly make rash tackles and frequently give the ball away in dangerous areas. If one or both of them play tonight against a good attacking side like arsenal then i think they could be found out.

He played consistantly well over the last 8 months or so, had some great moments in big games, and kept players like Ronaldinho, Bale or Ribery quiet. Your critisism about getting caught out of position is not really true anymore, since he improved so much. His positioning is not much worse than Evra's or any other fullback with the drive to go forward. And, his tackling is top notch and he avoids rush tackles anymore.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

Rafael has improved his defensive game a lot of over the season. I haven't really seen him been beaten all season besides for a few nervous moments against N'Zogbia. If anything, he has been on the end of some great, last ditch goal saving tackles like the one against Valencia that he pulled off. Rafael has found the right balance between attack and defense.

I agree with your post only in regards to Fabio. The hype for the two is warranted though. They're young, extremely talented and Rafael in particular has shown great quality shutting down opponents like Bale, Ronaldinho and Robinho with ease.

I dunno. I'm old fashioned maybe where I think a full backs first job is defending, and on this I find the two of them unbelievably rash. its great to see massive sliding tackles and aggresive defending, but all too often it gets you caught out.

No doubt they are terrific attacking options but maybe a wingback formation would suit them better.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

He played consistantly well over the last 8 months or so, had some great moments in big games, and kept players like Ronaldinho, Bale or Ribery quiet. Your critisism about getting caught out of position is not really true anymore, since he improved so much. His positioning is not much worse than Evra's or any other fullback with the drive to go forward. And, his tackling is top notch and he avoids rush tackles anymore.

The consensus is that he will start tonight. I hope im wrong, but i can see some of his frailties getting exposed. IMO even when he's in defensive position he pushes too close to his opposing winger leaving gaps behind. Time will tell. Im sure you'll let me know I was wrong if he has a great game tonight.

 

[Escobar]

I dont think you will find many in here who would agree with your assessment on Rafael

 

[Irwinwastheking]

I dont think you will find many in here who would agree with your assessment on Rafael

Im well aware of that. I do think that a big reason why people seem to have taken to him so quickly is that he has many many good points.

>He's young, very fast and athletic
>He's a tallented attacker
>great with the ball at his feet
>can swing in a mean cross
>shows huge commitment to the cause
>when he does pull of one of the 20 foot sliding tackles they look awesome

However as much as I like all of this as much as the next man, people should understand that proper defensive play does not mean having to tackle every time, sometimes jockeying the player on the ball is the correct option. Bombing forward all the time is great, but can leave others exposed at the back. Playing dodgy balls to your playing partners or trying to run your self out of trouble every time isn't right either. Sometimes hoofing it up field or out of play is whats called for.

Im not saying that he's rubbish, just that he needs to apply himself to more concentrated defensive duties. Quite often when he makes a blunder, people on the caf are to quick to deflect the blame to another player.

 

[Wan]

They're 20 years old. For their age, they are one of the best around, Rafael especially. Show me a better fullback at that age. You expect them to be perfect at only 20 years of age?

 

[TonyMontana]

Old Trafford loves him already. I love him too he looks like an amazing player for a 20 year old, I can not believe we have the next right back of the brazilian national team.

 

[Irwinwastheking]

They're 20 years old. For their age, they are one of the best around, Rafael especially. Show me a better fullback at that age. You expect them to be perfect at only 20 years of age?

I hate to be pedantic, but....

-------------------------------

Im long enough in the tooth to not expect them to be perfect.

please refer to my first post. The criticism is of the supporter thinking they're gods gift allready.

 

[Tumbling-Dice]

Hope Rafael starts tonight. He's simply the best we have in that position.

 

[Escobar]

Im well aware of that. I do think that a big reason why people seem to have taken to him so quickly is that he has many many good points.

>He's young, very fast and athletic
>He's a tallented attacker
>great with the ball at his feet
>can swing in a mean cross
>shows huge commitment to the cause
>when he does pull of one of the 20 foot sliding tackles they look awesome

However as much as I like all of this as much as the next man, people should understand that proper defensive play does not mean having to tackle every time, sometimes jockeying the player on the ball is the correct option. Bombing forward all the time is great, but can leave others exposed at the back. Playing dodgy balls to your playing partners or trying to run your self out of trouble every time isn't right either. Sometimes hoofing it up field or out of play is whats called for.

Im not saying that he's rubbish, just that he needs to apply himself to more concentrated defensive duties. Quite often when he makes a blunder, people on the caf are to quick to deflect the blame to another player.

Rafael cut this rash tackling out after the Ribery "incident". Since then, he seems to be much more aware. Plus, he doesnt tackle as much as you state. Positioning and defensivie skills will come with more experience, but for a 20, his development has been fantastic.

Just compare the Rafael of a year ago

 

[Rado_N]

Im well aware of that. I do think that a big reason why people seem to have taken to him so quickly is that he has many many good points.

>He's young, very fast and athletic
>He's a tallented attacker
>great with the ball at his feet
>can swing in a mean cross
>shows huge commitment to the cause
>when he does pull of one of the 20 foot sliding tackles they look awesome

However as much as I like all of this as much as the next man, people should understand that proper defensive play does not mean having to tackle every time, sometimes jockeying the player on the ball is the correct option. Bombing forward all the time is great, but can leave others exposed at the back. Playing dodgy balls to your playing partners or trying to run your self out of trouble every time isn't right either. Sometimes hoofing it up field or out of play is whats called for.

Im not saying that he's rubbish, just that he needs to apply himself to more concentrated defensive duties. Quite often when he makes a blunder, people on the caf are to quick to deflect the blame to another player.

The timing of these comments is somewhat bizarre, if you'd said the same thing maybe a year ago I could understand it but his positional awareness and general defensive qualities have improved no end in that time and this season it's even been commented on how he's been bombing forward a lot less than he used to. He's dealt with strong opposition plenty of times and I don't really understand the concern with him starting tonight, there's nobody I'd rather see in ahead of him.

 

[Decotron]

Im gonna defend irwinwastheking a little here.

In a recent home match, cant remember the opposition and the actual mistake he made didnt cost us a goal but Rafael got turned inside out defending a one on one, now it wasnt pace or trickery that outfoxed him it was just poor defending, he failed to show the player onto his weak foot. Very basic stuff.

On the positive side the lad has improved he timing and decision making alot as mentioned above. Its his Intensity and doggedness in winning one on ones that gives me great hope for the future. you can see he wants it. He come along way already but hes not one of the best in the world, he might be one day but the hype at times is a little much

 

[Scholesgoals]

i cant think of any reason why he isnt nailed on first choice right back.

He's the best one we've got at the club, i think the only reason o shea or someone should start over him is if we are facing aerial bombardment and need the extra height.

 

[Striker10]

I think the thing is most defenders get turned at one time or another or lose a dual. O'shea has...brown has....but potentially Rafael is miles better offensively and at 19/20 is rightly highly regarded. He has also shown he can defend.

When you are that offensive you just need to strike the right balance, like Evra has. Rafael is a class act and people highlighting 'mistakes' need to remember that even the 'greats' make mistakes but Rafael has made fewer then alot of people would have imagined and if that's by luck, they i'd gladly take a lucky player over someone who's not as good

I find any critic bizarre and as for Fabio, he's not had the games so rightly will still need to get experience and confidence in himself. It's looking good. Lets not forget that Rafael scored against Arsenal in the past and his non celebration showed he was a class act. It says everything that few would have any problems putting him in the team for tonights game over more experienced players

 

[Irwinwastheking]

Im gonna defend irwinwastheking a little here.

In a recent home match, cant remember the opposition and the actual mistake he made didnt cost us a goal but Rafael got turned inside out defending a one on one, now it wasnt pace or trickery that outfoxed him it was just poor defending, he failed to show the player onto his weak foot. Very basic stuff.

On the positive side the lad has improved he timing and decision making alot as mentioned above. Its his Intensity and doggedness in winning one on ones that gives me great hope for the future. you can see he wants it. He come along way already but hes not one of the best in the world, he might be one day but the hype at times is a little much

I have to say I love this attribute. He is willing to put in the hard work.

I think the thing is most defenders get turned at one time or another or lose a dual. O'shea has...brown has....but potentially Rafael is miles better offensively and at 19/20 is rightly highly regarded. He has also shown he can defend.

When you are that offensive you just need to strike the right balance, like Evra has. Rafael is a class act and people highlighting 'mistakes' need to remember that even the 'greats' make mistakes but Rafael has made fewer then alot of people would have imagined and if that's by luck, they i'd gladly take a lucky player over someone who's not as good

I find any critic bizarre and as for Fabio, he's not had the games so rightly will still need to get experience and confidence in himself. It's looking good. Lets not forget that Rafael scored against Arsenal in the past and his non celebration showed he was a class act.

Players get criticised all the time on here, and rightly or wrongly everyones entitled to their opinion. I don't think i've gone over the top in any of my comments.

Raf has got great potential, but for me he has to keep the head a bit more and focus on learning the trade as a defender for a while before i'll judge his as a great fullback.

 

[Escobar]

Im gonna defend irwinwastheking a little here.

In a recent home match, cant remember the opposition and the actual mistake he made didnt cost us a goal but Rafael got turned inside out defending a one on one, now it wasnt pace or trickery that outfoxed him it was just poor defending, he failed to show the player onto his weak foot. Very basic stuff.

On the positive side the lad has improved he timing and decision making alot as mentioned above. Its his Intensity and doggedness in winning one on ones that gives me great hope for the future. you can see he wants it. He come along way already but hes not one of the best in the world, he might be one day but the hype at times is a little much

That happens to any defender from time to time, I remember even Vidic being turned inside out very easily. And you are talking from one incident. Other than that, he's pretty solid

 

[Irwinwastheking]

That happens to any defender from time to time, I remember even Vidic being turned inside out very easily. And you are talking from one incident. Other than that, he's pretty solid

As I said, i'll watch with interest tonight and see how the progression is going if he plays.

 

[IhabX7]

People who are pointing out single events to say he is not that good defensively, forget that Gary Neville gives away more needless freekicks than Rafael, even Evra does that from time to time, there are no perfect defenders, there are perfect performances and Rafael is delivering those on a regular basis. Nitpicking is annoying.

 

[Brwned]

I think its a long long time since i've seen 2 players getting overhyped out of all proportion as these lads have been on here. Sure they can look good going forward, but both of them are so often caught desperatly out of position at the back, they constantly make rash tackles and frequently give the ball away in dangerous areas. If one or both of them play tonight against a good attacking side like arsenal then i think they could be found out.

I'd said the same thing manys-a-time before, like here:

Being able to defend and being able to tackle are two completely different things.

Rafael's biggest weakness is O'Shea's biggest strength - positioning.

You need to have someone who is positionally solid in some specific games.

I don't think it's fair any more though. He's still a bit rash and isn't a typical defender in my view - he very rarely drops off to mark the space he's always on the man - but he's improved his defending plenty and his ability as a standalone threat and as an attacking option for Nani/Valencia is always a huge asset which does give a bit of leeway to his defending. It has to.

His defending alone isn't as good as O'Shea 08/09, Brown 07/08 or Neville 06/07 but none of them are at that level. O'Shea is the closest to it but there's not a huge gap in their defensive game any more I don't think. There is a huge gap in their attacking between him and every one of the rest, though (possibly besides Neville who's had some very good games going forward after the injury, not so much defensively).

 

[Brwned]

People who are pointing out single events to say he is not that good defensively, forget that Gary Neville gives away more needless freekicks than Rafael, even Evra does that from time to time, there are no perfect defenders, there are perfect performances and Rafael is delivering those on a regular basis. Nitpicking is annoying.

Nitpicking only comes about when people start putting Rafael at a level above where he's really at - i.e. hailing him as a starter before his defending's up to scratch, hailing him as one of the best in the world before he's even had the ups and downs of a full season (as we've seen take their toll on Maicon/Evra/Cole just this season following the WC).

It's hard not to get excited about the lad but it's so easy to ignore a players' weaknesses and exaggerate their strengths just because they showed it at a young age and it's the natural assumption they'll improve it, and then if the players don't reach these unrealistic targets then it just leads to an even bigger backlash - see Anderson and Evans as recent examples. e.g.

In a couple of years he will probably be the best right back in Europe.

Hopefully he won't have as big a rocky spell as either of those two, or just doesn't have another one at all, because the expectations for him are huge.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

If you think Rafael has got turned around too easily this year, watch Brown or neville or Oshea. They have gotten skinned all year to almost embarrassing levels.

RB is Rafaels position now. Like it or not, he has earned it. Also, defensively he is pretty feckin solid. Yes he is prone to a mistake or two but he has bailed out our defenders many times this season.

You can tell he is really trying to improve defensively to the point that he does not attack as aggressively as before. This maturity is why he is quickly becoming my favourite players.

 

[Decotron]

If you think Rafael has got turned around too easily this year, watch Brown or neville or Oshea. They have gotten skinned all year to almost embarrassing levels.

RB is Rafaels position now. Like it or not, he has earned it. Also, defensively he is pretty feckin solid. Yes he is prone to a mistake or two but he has bailed out our defenders many times this season.

You can tell he is really trying to improve defensively to the point that he does not attack as aggressively as before. This maturity is why he is quickly becoming my favourite players.

Thats a very lazy opinion imo. Love to see examples of all of these.

The others tend to do alot better in terms of getting turned inside out especially JOS. As Brwned said its all about the positioning. Granted Rafaels pace allows him a 2nd bite, at the highest level you dont always get that chance.

Its grand though the lad as a defender is a work in progress, no one can deny that. His other attributes are there for all to see and admire.